Aer Lingus Planned Strike 6th June Advice needed

FlutterinBantam

Bessarion wrote: »

I agree, anyone who signs up fir this life should know what they are getting into,

However it is wrong for a company to break their side of the deal with their employees and then claim to be 'working towards a solution' while refusing to talk to the same staff.

In addition in this dispute hours worked and time away from home aren't the problem. It is the fact that cumulatively rostering minimum time 3-4 months in a row actually reduces staff efficiency (which in this case means safety awareness) EI go on about 'best international practises' but then refuse to follow the rostering patterns used by some of the most successful airlines in the world.

In reply to FlutterinBantaam re strategy/implementation: Indeed top mgmt should set the direction and allow the strategy to filter down. However in the case of EI this is not happening. It seems hat in Dec 2010 the CEO stated that the pilots can have their roster patten as long as the productivity is reached. Yet 6 months later it seems the middle mgmt are unable to set up a roster that achieves this, even though Ryanair and Easyjet can do it with lots more aircraft/route/bases.


Also in reply to the 10 butchers in a shop example, EI pilots are currently hitting their LEGAL MAX FLYING HOURS so there is no problem with productivity there. Note I stated legal max rather than contracted max. A pilot cannot do more than 100 flight hours in a rolling 28 day period, this is contained in the EU minimum FTL rules for flight/cabin crew, which is what EI adher to.

Ok .....see immediately what you are saying.


Poor performance by EI middle management who by and large would seem to be 'lifers' with no qualifications and no chutzpah to push through the strategy outlined by the General management, which probably explains the 'musical chairs' experience in that level of management in recent years.

Too many blunders and a consequent lack of confidence from the staff.

Yeah, hear what you are saying.

Bessarion

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

Poor performance by EI middle management who by and large would seem to be 'lifers' with no qualifications and no chutzpah to push through the strategy outlined by the General management, which probably explains the 'musical chairs' experience in that level of management in recent years.....

Only last month in the Irish Times there was an article by Martin wall about an internal staff survey last year, the results of which were according to the CEO "disappointing but not surprising", he was further quoted as saying "this is what happens when you suspend mgmt training for a decade."

As a mgmt consultant you must see that perhaps there is a culture problem in EI that keeps throwing up these disputes with staff. I'm not saying staff are always in the right but something is definitely wrong out there for it to happen so much.

FlutterinBantam

Bessarion wrote: »

Only last month in the Irish Times there was an article by Martin wall about an internal staff survey last year, the results of which were according to the CEO "disappointing but not surprising", he was further quoted as saying "this is what happens when you suspend mgmt training for a decade."

As a mgmt consultant you must see that perhaps there is a culture problem in EI that keeps throwing up these disputes with staff. I'm not saying staff are always in the right but something is definitely wrong out there for it to happen so much.

Bulls eye pal!!

Locker10a

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

I'm a Management Consultant by profession and take a keen interest in these things.

Ahh i see !:rolleyes:

Bearcat

Telling all and sundry on a public forum ones job summary beggars belief. As an aside a management consultant can go from managing washrooms to managing boardrooms..... It's a fairly wide spectrum.

FlutterinBantam

Can obviously see you have no interest in following up the reasons for the appalling IR history in EI.

Instead you prefer make snide comments totally off topic, and bordering on personal abuse.

Kind of sums your kind up pal.

Bearcat

nope its not abuse....you come on here with your constant vitriolic spew against pilots....see all your previous posts dating back......you then tell all and sundry your career......highly niave at best.....if you have a problem with deserved retorts, report me and get a permanent ban......then you'll have free range on the aviation forum to pour scorn at will.

FlutterinBantam

Bearcat wrote: »

nope its not abuse....you come on here with your constant vitriolic spew against pilots....see all your previous posts dating back......you then tell all and sundry your career......highly niave at best.....if you have a problem with deserved retorts, report me and get a permanent ban......then you'll have free range on the aviation forum to pour scorn at will.

Check post 87 and you will find I was asked a question.

If you don't mind I'll leave it to the mods in here to decide whether if I am coming with a 'constant vitriolic spew' against pilots or not.

From my records I don't appear to have any issues there.

My friend, sometimes the truth hurts, and entrenched views and backward thinking and practices need to be taken out into the open and discussed without vested interests and hyperbole.

I do not use the Aviation forum to pour scorn on anyone.

MoeJay

FB, for the sake of making this a good discussion, let's boil it down to the essentials.

Appalling IR history in EI? Absolutely. Legacy of being a semi-state company? Probably.

There have been more plans/panics/survivals in the last 10 years nobody knows which way to turn anymore.

How many thousand people have left the company in one way or another during that period yet costs/staffing levels are apparently still not right? Staff or management failure?

Anyway, this pilot roster dispute was well flagged : http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1014/1224281062197.html

That was October 14th 2010!

So who is running the "manpower planning" in Aer Lingus?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/pilots-action-may-lead-to-full-cancellation-of-aer-lingus-operations-507121.html

"Aer Lingus said issues were exacerbated in recent weeks by a shortage of pilots due to higher than expected levels of staff turnover in the UK."

All of those pilots who left in the UK had to give 3 months' notice to leave.

A frustration at the lack of ability by management to plan for such well-flagged events will always occur in any workplace as resources are squeezed. How that ultimately manifests itself (industrial action/strike/resolution) is a measure of how well the management can actually plan.

What we have here is an ongoing failure to put in a plan to maintain an adequate level of pilot resources despite a workforce who apparently have no problem delivering the productivity the company seek.

The pilots want to put a structure in place in rostering that will force this company to plan rather than fire-fight (as a lot of managers tend to do.)

The questions begs: Ryanair and Easyjet both work similar roster structures as IALPA proposed, and those companies are not doing that just because they like their pilots...FB if you were advising EI what would you say?

FlutterinBantam

MoeJay wrote: »

FB, for the sake of making this a good discussion, let's boil it down to the essentials.

Appalling IR history in EI? Absolutely. Legacy of being a semi-state company? Probably.

There have been more plans/panics/survivals in the last 10 years nobody knows which way to turn anymore.

How many thousand people have left the company in one way or another during that period yet costs/staffing levels are apparently still not right? Staff or management failure?

Anyway, this pilot roster dispute was well flagged : http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2010/1014/1224281062197.html

That was October 14th 2010!

So who is running the "manpower planning" in Aer Lingus?

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/pilots-action-may-lead-to-full-cancellation-of-aer-lingus-operations-507121.html

"Aer Lingus said issues were exacerbated in recent weeks by a shortage of pilots due to higher than expected levels of staff turnover in the UK."

All of those pilots who left in the UK had to give 3 months' notice to leave.

A frustration at the lack of ability by management to plan for such well-flagged events will always occur in any workplace as resources are squeezed. How that ultimately manifests itself (industrial action/strike/resolution) is a measure of how well the management can actually plan.

What we have here is an ongoing failure to put in a plan to maintain an adequate level of pilot resources despite a workforce who apparently have no problem delivering the productivity the company seek.

The pilots want to put a structure in place in rostering that will force this company to plan rather than fire-fight (as a lot of managers tend to do.)

The questions begs: Ryanair and Easyjet both work similar roster structures as IALPA proposed, and those companies are not doing that just because they like their pilots...FB if you were advising EI what would you say?

Well it would be first of all very unfair of me to advise anything over the 'airwaves' without a detailed study of the work practices,cost base, yield etc etc.

So I wont do that.

What struck me in this pilots dispute ,is that there must be airlines similar in size and route structure who have pilot rosters in train.

Surely a tried and trusted system should have worked in EI?

Did they investigate that.?

Historical baggage is still evident, I feel as as I already agreed with a poster there seems to be an anti-company culture out there.

On a general note, I find the posting of clear attainable agreed goals for all employees including management, especially middle management and accountability, real accountability for falling short in those goals to be a very good method to try to get all working on the same page.

Make no mistake EI is an extremely complicated scenario to unpick given all the reasons outlined, and I can see a lot of personnel changes,training, qualification skillsets upgraded, and movement before that is achieved.