Genetics- Rush

Corsendonk

The BBC did a programme a while back on the genetics of the British Isles & IRELAND(Eire, Hibernia). They asked for volunteers in the Rush area. Now I missed the programme but does anyone happen to remember the results? Thanks

TangyZizzle

Yes. Lots and lots of cousin cousin relations.

Beasty

.... oh I'm so tempted to comment ....

.... but as a moderator I'd better behave myself ....:D

Auvers

but Rush is not part of the British Isles

Beasty

Auvers wrote: »

but Rush is not part of the British Isles

Yes it is

The British Isles comprise Great Britian and Ireland (along with a few other islands dotted around the 2 main ones)

Auvers

Beasty wrote: »

Yes it is

The British Isles comprise Great Britian and Ireland (along with a few other islands dotted around the 2 main ones)

Maybe in your encyclopedia

but defiantly not in mine

Anita Blow

Auvers wrote: »

Maybe in your encyclopedia

but defiantly not in mine

Actually pretty much any ecyclopedia.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/British_Isles.aspx

It's a geographical term, not political.

Morpheus

Rush isnt in the British Isles and Certainly doesnt belong to the Republic of Ireland...

its actually part of the Peoples Republic of Fingal, the 27th county!

Corsendonk

Morphéus wrote: »

Rush isnt in the British Isles and Certainly doesnt belong to the Republic of Ireland...

its actually part of the Peoples Republic of Fingal, the 27th county!

Thats 33 counties if you read certain Encyclopedia:)

Auvers

Anita Blow wrote: »

Actually pretty much any ecyclopedia.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/British_Isles.aspx

It's a geographical term, not political.

it geopolitical term from imperial days of the bygone British Empire, just try and find the incorrect term in any printed Irish encyclopedia\atlas or Government publication from '97 onwards

Anita Blow

Auvers wrote: »

it geopolitical term from imperial days of the bygone British Empire, just try and find the incorrect term in any printed Irish encyclopedia\atlas or Government publication from '97 onwards

Of course they wouldn't. Out of fear they'd lose votes from people who still get offended by a geographic term for a group of islands.

There's many names for the islands. British Isles is one. Not exactly shocking that the BBC used it.

Beasty

It is factually correct that Rush is part of Ireland and Ireland is part of the British Isles - any further discussion on this is definitely off-topic

Thanks

Beasty

Auvers

Beasty wrote: »

It is factually correct that Rush is part of Ireland and Ireland is part of the British Isles - any further discussion on this is definitely off-topic

although maybe I was mistaken as it looks like we are part of Stalinist Russia at the moment :pac:

bah your no fun Beasty as I was very bored in work, so I decided to have a bit of an argument for the craic sorry for dragging the topic off course

Corsendonk

Ok I corrected my original post and added Ireland, Hibernia and Eire(hopefully it makes you all happy). So back on topic does anyone remember the programme? I am interested in cross referencing the results from Rush with the Blood of the Travellors results.

Corsendonk

Found it!

http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/capelli-CB-03.pdf

Scanning the science paper quickly and your all wrong!! Rush is Norweigan.......

LeoB

One thing that will come out is we are top class people here in Rush.

midonogh

Beasty wrote: »

Yes it is

The British Isles comprise Great Britian and Ireland (along with a few other islands dotted around the 2 main ones)

I think Beasty is referring to what we would know as the Celtic Archipelago

The Hill Billy

Let's not de-rail this thread any further please.

Thanks,

HB

briany

Some interesting information in that report. Even more intriguing is that according to the dot on the map, Rush is located roughly on the site of the ancient and former village of Dun Laoghaire. :pac:

dubhthach

Information in the report is sadly about 7 years out of date. Huge changes have occurred due to increase resoultion of Y-Chromosome haplogroups over the last 7 years. The bit about connections to Basques have been found to be completely wrong as Basque men belong to a different subgroup of R1b then most Irish men.

Corsendonk

dubhthach wrote: »

Information in the report is sadly about 7 years out of date. Huge changes have occurred due to increase resoultion of Y-Chromosome haplogroups over the last 7 years. The bit about connections to Basques have been found to be completely wrong as Basque men belong to a different subgroup of R1b then most Irish men.

Whats the procedure for keeping DNA material obtained through studies like this as the technology continues to evolve?

dubhthach

Well you "bio-bank" the samples so keep them frozen in Liquid Nitrogen etc (or so I would assume). The has been a huge amount of "higher resoultion" done on Y-Chromosome haplogroups in the last 7 years.

At a basic level there is some correctness in identfying R1a* with Norse origin in this study as this is particulary common haplogroup in scandinavia (and eastern europe in general). However most population in western europe belong to R1b*, however there are distinct distrubitions of R1b* subclades. In Ireland most men belong to a subclade known as L21 (R1b1b2a1a2e)

In Netherlands/Eastern England however most common R1b subclade is called U106 (R1b1b2a1a1*).

In general U106 is associated with "Germanic Europe" whereas L21 is one of the subclades of P312 (R1b1b2a1a2*)which is heavily associated Atlantic Europe and potentially with Celtic populations.

They probably last shared a common male ancestor about 4-5k years ago.

Here's the relevant section of the "Y-tree" (draft)
http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?name=Draft&parent=23808881

More recent paper on R1b in Europe (2010)

http://secher.bernard.free.fr/Articles/R1b_Myres.pdf

Bluetonic

Seems suitable for here.

Obviously all along the coast here there were lots of landing sites and settlements.

Workers find ancient burial ground

Sunday June 19 2011
Ancient skeletal remains have been uncovered by contractors working on the largest energy project in the country.

The unrecorded burial ground was discovered on farmland in Rush, north Dublin, as EirGrid laid piping for a high voltage direct current (HVDC) underground power line.

Several skulls and bones were recovered on the strip of land near Rogerstown estuary, which locals historians believe could date back to the Vikings in the 9th century.

An on-site archaeologist has informed the National Monuments Service and is expected to be given the go-ahead to carry out a full archaeological survey next week.

It is not yet known how many bodies are buried there or exactly what era they date back to.

A spokeswoman for EirGrid said the section of land has been cordoned off and was being protected from heavy rainfall until examinations can be completed.

However work is continuing in the surrounding area.

"A previously unrecorded burial ground has been located on private land in Rush earlier this week," she said.

"It wasn't marked up on any ordnance survey maps."

She said there was no evidence of disturbance on the land before the 1.5 metres deep trench was dug on the farmland.

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/workers-find-ancient-burial-ground-2679264.html

Corsendonk

Interesting just reading the media reports, it as yet has not been confirmed as a Viking burial. Just speculation from local historians so far. I wonder will they require volunteers?

dubhthach

Well I know that there was some anouncement awhile ago about one of Irish universities hiring people for research into "Ancient DNA" eg. extracting DNA from ancient remains. I think it might be UCC but I'm not sure. Alot of time it's very hard to extract a viable sample. However there's been a number done on particulary old samples over the last two years.

Corsendonk

dubhthach wrote: »

Well I know that there was some anouncement awhile ago about one of Irish universities hiring people for research into "Ancient DNA" eg. extracting DNA from ancient remains. I think it might be UCC but I'm not sure. Alot of time it's very hard to extract a viable sample. However there's been a number done on particulary old samples over the last two years.

Whats the ball park figure to get your DNA origins mapped?

dubhthach

Corsendonk wrote: »

Whats the ball park figure to get your DNA origins mapped?

Well it depends on what you are interested in tbh. The best value at the moment is with a company called 23andme they charge $99 (US) plus $9/month for 12months. They do a 1million SNP test on your genome across all 23 pairs. As well as tell you what haplogroup you belong on your Y-Chromosome (Male lineage) and Mitochondrial (female lineage). It's a great and cheap way to get into the area.

From a more research oriented approach there is a company called FamilytreeDNA there you can get STR (short tandem repeat) tests done on your Y-Chromosome. These are more useful for genealogical in that if you belong to same Y-Chromosome haplogroup as other people ye can compare the "Genetic distance" at STR level. Close match implies more recent shared ancestry etc. Calculations of a Y-Chromosome Haplogroup age is done by comparing STR values of all the men who belong to that haplogroup. There's basic Y test (only tests Y-Chromosome) costs $169 US and tests for 37 STR markers -- I've personally tested to 111 markers.

Some interesting "clusters" have been noticed when it comes to STR analysis. In Irish context there are:

• Irish North Western -- associated with Uí Néill/Connachta
• Irish Type II -- appears connected to Eoghnacht families of munster
• Irish Type III -- connected to Dál gCais of Thomond (O'Briens, Kenndy's etc.)
• Airgialla I + II clusters associated with names of families connected to Aigialla
• Leinster / Irish sea cluster
• Scots/Dalriada cluster

Personally I don't belong to any know clusters of L21+ men (all above are clusters within L21 Haplogroup -- some forming sub-haplogroups)

No.2

dubhthach wrote: »

Well it depends on what you are interested in tbh. The best value at the moment is with a company called 23andme they charge $99 (US) plus $9/month for 12months. They do a 1million SNP test on your genome across all 23 pairs. As well as tell you what haplogroup you belong on your Y-Chromosome (Male lineage) and Mitochondrial (female lineage). It's a great and cheap way to get into the area.
...

Anyone ever do this? Looks interesting from a health / ancestry point of view ...

dubhthach

No.2 wrote: »

Anyone ever do this? Looks interesting from a health / ancestry point of view ...

I've tested with both companies. 23andme is great for general picture across your whole genome. The ancestry components in my signature is based off a K=10 (10 ancestral components) analysis of my 23andme raw data.

FTDNA (FamilyTree DNA) is best specifically for Y-chromosome analysis. In general it's "deep ancestry" at that level, though of course you might get matches with people who are more recently related to you (within the last 4-6generations). My interest is mainly from point of view of "population genetics" and stuff regarding human migration.

To put into perspective 70% (give or take) of Irishmen are descended from one man who lived on the continent (northern France/Rhineland) around 3,700-4,000 years ago! (2000-1700BC). Newgrange in comparison is over 5,000 years old (3100-2800BC)

No.2

dubhthach wrote: »

I've tested with both companies. 23andme is great for general picture across your whole genome. The ancestry components in my signature is based off a K=10 (10 ancestral components) analysis of my 23andme raw data.

FTDNA (FamilyTree DNA) is best specifically for Y-chromosome analysis. In general it's "deep ancestry" at that level, though of course you might get matches with people who are more recently related to you (within the last 4-6generations). My interest is mainly from point of view of "population genetics" and stuff regarding human migration.

To put into perspective 70% (give or take) of Irishmen are descended from one man who lived on the continent (northern France/Rhineland) around 3,700-4,000 years ago! (2000-1700BC). Newgrange in comparison is over 5,000 years old (3100-2800BC)

Thanks Dubhthach