How to scold a very bold child

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat,

Ok I have travelled planes trains and automobiles with my son, [alone] since he was an infant. And he is a pretty good traveller. I found it much easier with a fold up buggy and a wheeled suitcase you could pull with one hand and push the buggy with another.

There is absolutely no way my son would ever stay in a buggy for hours on a journey. That will certainly get the rest of the train to hear about it. Out of curiousity, where on the train is there room for a buggy and a child sitting in it?

*By the way I never use a dvd player myself, Ive just seen other parents on long haul flights use them.

littlebug

I wouldn't expect my 9 and 6 years to sit in place for a 3 hour train journey never mind a 2 year old. I'd go so far as to say that I wouldn't sit in place for 3 hours myself! I'd go along with Metrovelvets good suggestions of having an array of different things to do and have them mentally timetabled though I wouldn't go buying a portable dvd player.

Could you maybe work on getting him to understand delayed gratification e.g.
"first we finish this picture, then we do.." whatever it is he wants to do... which might help with the train journey e.g "when we've finished this story we'll go for a walk, just once up and down the carriage" then followed by "when we finish the walk, we'll go back to the table for our picnic!" so there's something good to comeback to the seat for, rather than getting strapped into the buggy again.
Does he know colours? Something to keep him amused while you're sitting... ie "I spy" etc.

careca11

gargleblaster wrote: »

OP I would like to offer a few suggestions, if you haven't tried them already.

And some parents might balk at this, but I would probably also offer a special treat for good behavior. And I would also shower the child with affection and praise after the first peaceful trip.

so I am not the only one who does this ,i give my son (22months) some treats if my mam(babysitter) lets me know if he behaved or not for her during the day.

he does tro a fit every now and then, sometimes when he doesn't get his own way ....i would usually hug him and explain in simplest terms why he cannot have
it does work for me ,
yep i must admit that we probably have him spoilt a bit (but he is our first and could end up being our only child) ,
there's a story behind his birth (some might say a miracle) ,so i think I've every right to spoil him (within reason of course) ,

i'm seriously think about those mood card thingy's though , just as an alternative

LadyMayBelle

careca11 wrote: »

i'm seriously think about those mood card thingy's though , just as an alternative

I'm a massive advocate of these, shop bought or home made, whatever. Can break through barriers to communication and ever so simple to create.

It's about getting to a child's level, because we so often expect them to understand us, when they are far from it! Give it a shot!

wolfpawnat

metrovelvet wrote: »

wolfpawnat,

Ok I have travelled planes trains and automobiles with my son, [alone] since he was an infant. And he is a pretty good traveller. I found it much easier with a fold up buggy and a wheeled suitcase you could pull with one hand and push the buggy with another.

There is absolutely no way my son would ever stay in a buggy for hours on a journey. That will certainly get the rest of the train to hear about it. Out of curiousity, where on the train is there room for a buggy and a child sitting in it?

*By the way I never use a dvd player myself, Ive just seen other parents on long haul flights use them.

He usually used to stay there. I always plan our train journey's around the time that is his nap time, so that he will sleep over one hour of it, get a nappy change and have a snack (usually a treaty one) then we would nearly be to our destination. As for where can you do this, in the Cork to Dublin route there is a wheelchair spot in every carriage. I always manually pick my seat online to ensure I am next to this, so long as a disabled traveller does not come on for the journey it is permitted for a child to use these areas.

I cannot stress enough the fact my son will not sit on a seat and will for the full 3 hours run up and down the carriage. That is why he has to be kept in a buggy, I do not take pleasure in it, but people get more sick of a child screaming into their face after it falls over running wildly up and down a carriage than a tantruming one for 5 minutes, also there is the case of people leaving their feet in the aisle, jutting out baggage, the dining cart, hot fluids in peoples hands as the walk back to their seat etc.! It is not safe to have a child doing so and as a result the safe option is the one of keeping my son in his buggy. It is not fun, but my job is to keep him safe, not make life as fun as possible at the detriment of his health!

littlebug wrote: »

I wouldn't expect my 9 and 6 years to sit in place for a 3 hour train journey never mind a 2 year old. I'd go so far as to say that I wouldn't sit in place for 3 hours myself! I'd go along with Metrovelvets good suggestions of having an array of different things to do and have them mentally timetabled though I wouldn't go buying a portable dvd player.

Could you maybe work on getting him to understand delayed gratification e.g.
"first we finish this picture, then we do.." whatever it is he wants to do... which might help with the train journey e.g "when we've finished this story we'll go for a walk, just once up and down the carriage" then followed by "when we finish the walk, we'll go back to the table for our picnic!" so there's something good to comeback to the seat for, rather than getting strapped into the buggy again.
Does he know colours? Something to keep him amused while you're sitting... ie "I spy" etc.

As I have stated several times already, he is 2 years and 4 months old and does not speak or comprehend much English. So even saying "Play with this and then we will get a packet of chocolate buttons" is like just making random sounds to him, he cannot comprehend it. I have tried toys/colouring/etc. it does not work. And when I leave him out he will not sit still and will turn anti-Christ when I attempt to put him back in to change trains!

username123

wolfpawnat wrote: »

As I have stated several times already, he is 2 years and 4 months old and does not speak or comprehend much English. So even saying "Play with this and then we will get a packet of chocolate buttons" is like just making random sounds to him, he cannot comprehend it.

Children understand language before they use language - just because he is not speaking doesnt mean he isnt understanding what you are saying to him. I doubt that things that you say are just random noises to him - he may choose not to listen but thats different.

wolfpawnat

username123 wrote: »

Children understand language before they use language - just because he is not speaking doesnt mean he isnt understanding what you are saying to him. I doubt that things that you say are just random noises to him - he may choose not to listen but thats different.

Sadly he does not comprehend, we have forked out hundreds to consultants who have confirmed this, he just doesn't. I say get me your car, he looks at me stupid, I say come here and I will get you buttons, he just walks off as though I said nothing. Simple as.

Ayla

The obvious question, then, is are you sure he can hear?

wolfpawnat

Ayla wrote: »

The obvious question, then, is are you sure he can hear?

Yes, he can. That was tested too! He is getting grommets for ear infections, but he has been tested for his hearing and it is near perfect!

Ayla

Ok, just trying to rule that out as a possibility. Glad that's all good.

username123

hi wolfpawnat - not trying to be argumentative but just trying to help you think outside the box here - you said in earlier posts that a consultant had a 'conversation' with your son - I took that to mean that he used non verbal gestures - but that the consultant spoke?

Also that the creche had asked him was he happy to be going to school and then he was fine about it.

Yet then you say he understands no speech. Im just finding it difficult to understand - or maybe Ive misread your posts - but I was getting the impression earlier that he had some comprehension of language - is this wrong - no comprehension at all?

Can you think of any examples where he actually responds to speech (not necessarily from you but from anyone)? I would think its odd that consultants are just agreeing there is zero understanding of speech and just writing it off - because at his age I would have expected him to be able to understand some amount of language even if he cant yet use it himself. What exactly are the consultants saying in relation to this?

BengaLover

I have 3 kids, ages 16. 14 and 8, so have made all the mistakes!
I now dont use the word punish at all for any adverse behaviour, whether its a tantrum from the 8yr old, or other misdemeanours by the teens (dont even get me started on that:D)
Whats really important to instill from an early age is that actions have consequences.
So when any of mine break a rule, misbehave etc, I simply calmly tell them that there will be a consequence.
The 'consequence' (or punishment if you use that word) should fit the crime.
It of course all depends on the age and learning ability of the child, but a time out as a consequence is great,however I dont think that time outs should be in a seperate room as this could give the child the message that they arent wanted and being sent away..do time outs where you can still see and interact with the child.
It helps to think in advance of ways to impart to a a child that his bahaviour isnt acceptable, without getting frustrated or angry.

wolfpawnat

username123 wrote: »

hi wolfpawnat - not trying to be argumentative but just trying to help you think outside the box here - you said in earlier posts that a consultant had a 'conversation' with your son - I took that to mean that he used non verbal gestures - but that the consultant spoke?

Also that the creche had asked him was he happy to be going to school and then he was fine about it.

Yet then you say he understands no speech. Im just finding it difficult to understand - or maybe Ive misread your posts - but I was getting the impression earlier that he had some comprehension of language - is this wrong - no comprehension at all?

Can you think of any examples where he actually responds to speech (not necessarily from you but from anyone)? I would think its odd that consultants are just agreeing there is zero understanding of speech and just writing it off - because at his age I would have expected him to be able to understand some amount of language even if he cant yet use it himself. What exactly are the consultants saying in relation to this?

When my partner leaves every morning, we say "daddy is off to school", when he goes to creche, we say "you are going to school". He can figure out that from the fact we hold out his backpack for him just as we do every day for his dad doing out the door, also the girl in the creche takes his backpack off and says that to him, so we have no idea does he think his backpack is called "school" or the creche to him is the school.

And the consultant let him just babble and then said "ya, oh yes" to him when he stopped babbling for a second, but as soon as she said pass me the truck or anything like that, he didn't have a clue what she was saying.

He only responds to actions, not words, we used actions with words for so long now he bases all of his comprehension on that alone. Such as get that and we would point. Our own faults really. But he does not react to unaided verbal commands.

Ayla

Since your son can respond to visual cues, have you tried signing with him? Even just simple one word thoughts (hungry, drink, tired, bored, etc)

username123

Thanks for clarifying wolfpawnat - and I agree with Ayla - have you tried signing with him?

Its seems that he is picking up non verbal information, he may also be picking up the verbal information, but it could be that when the verbal information comes alone he doesnt 'listen' to it.

What did the consultant say about him being unable to pick up non verbal information but not responding to verbal information?

wolfpawnat

Ayla wrote: »

Since your son can respond to visual cues, have you tried signing with him? Even just simple one word thoughts (hungry, drink, tired, bored, etc)

I actually thought about that, only thing is I have no idea where to find it for him?

username123 wrote: »

What did the consultant say about him being unable to pick up non verbal information but not responding to verbal information?

She gave out to us for looking at the non verbal and responding immediately rather than make him work on his speech to try and tell us, only now that I have to really think before mentioning anything to him, I have realised how many actions I put with the words, such as "come here" I move my head in a beckoning manner, "wash your hands" I hold my hands out.

Honestly, he will be amazing at reading peoples actions when he is older if he keeps going like this!

CK2010

theres a programme called Something Special, its by the BBC and is produced by a guy who used to teach special needs children, it teaches children signing using makaton gestures. its a great show, really sweet and playful, my daughter loves it. try him with that maybe? theres a wholelist of episodes and the topics it covers on wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Something_Special_%28TV_series%29

you can use other sources/types of signs too obviously, but i reckon this'd be a great intro for your little boy because its a fun and really visual way to get him started as opposed to a rigid teaching format if you get me?


ETA: are you confident in the nurses conclusion that he is not autistic? i dont want to worry you, but just asking what you think? mammy knows best and all that?

wolfpawnat

CK2010 wrote: »

ETA: are you confident in the nurses conclusion that he is not autistic? i dont want to worry you, but just asking what you think? mammy knows best and all that?

Yes I am, I know there is nothing wrong with him, and that is not mother in denial syndrome. I am sick of people assuming every child with the slightest delay in any way is autistic. It is seen as the "in" problem to have these days. Every one is looking for it everywhere. When I bring my child to 3 different specialists, all say he is fine, his father and I are pleased with that.

CK2010

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Yes I am, I know there is nothing wrong with him, and that is not mother in denial syndrome. I am sick of people assuming every child with the slightest delay in any way is autistic. It is seen as the "in" problem to have these days. Every one is looking for it everywhere. When I bring my child to 3 different specialists, all say he is fine, his father and I are pleased with that.

its not something 'wrong' though, if he has it he has it, its not something wrong its just something some kids have. a diagnosis just helps overcome and deal with the issues that are a part of it, its not a label on him. or an 'in' thing. im not saying that you are in denial or anything, or assuming anything in the slightest.

a family member of mine is autistic and your son just rings a few bells, not even the delay issue. some kids dont even get a delay in development, they develop til a certain point and then regress. i was just asking if you agree with the nurse because some healthcare professionals just tick off boxes that are 'typical' of a syndrome and they dont fully evaluate the person, and you as his mam would know him best and would be fully able to judge over a nurse. thats all.

trying to help as its something ive experience with. not trying to do the 'in' thing or label him. just help.

Ayla

OP - I have a book that teaches baby sign language that I never got around to using. If you'd like it I'd be happy to post it to you free of charge, just PM me your address.

wolfpawnat

CK2010 wrote: »

its not something 'wrong' though, if he has it he has it, its not something wrong its just something some kids have. a diagnosis just helps overcome and deal with the issues that are a part of it, its not a label on him. or an 'in' thing. im not saying that you are in denial or anything, or assuming anything in the slightest.

a family member of mine is autistic and your son just rings a few bells, not even the delay issue. some kids dont even get a delay in development, they develop til a certain point and then regress. i was just asking if you agree with the nurse because some healthcare professionals just tick off boxes that are 'typical' of a syndrome and they dont fully evaluate the person, and you as his mam would know him best and would be fully able to judge over a nurse. thats all.

trying to help as its something ive experience with. not trying to do the 'in' thing or label him. just help.

Sorry, I just have a step-mother who is obsessed, and I mean obsessed with autism. Seriously she is diagnosing everyone with it constantly (though she'd know as much about it as a 3 day old puppy) and since the day my son was 6 weeks old, she has been saying he has it. So my patiences are, needless to say, worn thin with the word Autism. I cannot hear that word now without getting píssed off!

But every few years some disorder/disease/illness comes to the forefront and everyone has it always in the front of their mind, AIDS, HIV, Cervical Cancer, Autism, ADHD, etc. So people can be quite fast to diagnose these things rather than just take a close look.

My son is a tad over active, as are many 2 year old boys, he cannot speak yet but he will get there, I am just trying to figure out a way to scold bad behaviour and sort out his tantrums without driving myself insane in the process

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Sorry, I just have a step-mother who is obsessed, and I mean obsessed with autism. Seriously she is diagnosing everyone with it constantly (though she'd know as much about it as a 3 day old puppy) and since the day my son was 6 weeks old, she has been saying he has it. So my patiences are, needless to say, worn thin with the word Autism. I cannot hear that word now without getting píssed off!

But every few years some disorder/disease/illness comes to the forefront and everyone has it always in the front of their mind, AIDS, HIV, Cervical Cancer, Autism, ADHD, etc. So people can be quite fast to diagnose these things rather than just take a close look.

My son is a tad over active, as are many 2 year old boys, he cannot speak yet but he will get there, I am just trying to figure out a way to scold bad behaviour and sort out his tantrums without driving myself insane in the process

How can he know its 'bad' behavior if he doesnt understand? Poor kid must be so confused and frustrated.

It sounds like his physicality is all he has right now.

littlebug

wolfpawnat wrote: »

As I have stated several times already, he is 2 years and 4 months old and does not speak or comprehend much English.

Sorry wp I too was misunderstanding

Language aside many 2 year olds have tantrums like that. My daughter had good verbal ability and comprehension at a young age yet she also had the most awful screeching tantrums known to mankind. I frequently had to put her in her cot surrounded by pillows as she was likely to hurt herself she would flail and thrash around so much. So I think to an extent it's just age related. For the most part if it happened in public we would remove her from the situation.... not much you can do about that on a train

The only advise I can give is distract distract distract..... more of the things that do keep him calm(er) and try to get in there when you see the signs of impending screeching before it happens! If none of this works then deep breaths and repeat to self...."it's a phase.... it won't last forever"

metrovelvet

I have also heard from some moms that dietary changes can make a huge difference. No sodium, no sugar, no asperteme, no artificial anythings.

Daisy M

littlebug wrote: »

Sorry wp I too was misunderstanding

Language aside many 2 year olds have tantrums like that. My daughter had good verbal ability and comprehension at a young age yet she also had the most awful screeching tantrums known to mankind. I frequently had to put her in her cot surrounded by pillows as she was likely to hurt herself she would flail and thrash around so much. So I think to an extent it's just age related. For the most part if it happened in public we would remove her from the situation.... not much you can do about that on a train

The only advise I can give is distract distract distract..... more of the things that do keep him calm(er) and try to get in there when you see the signs of impending screeching before it happens! If none of this works then deep breaths and repeat to self...."it's a phase.... it won't last forever"

I agree with this, also from my experience with my own lad who at that age was similar to littlebugs daughter, I would advise you to try and avoid for now as much as possible situations where he is more inclined to act up. I know you are probably doing the train trip to visit family, but this sounds extremely stressful on you both as is going on shopping trips ect, if you could keep these trips to a minimum or go by yourself when your partner can mind your son. The reason I think this may help is that your son may be in the habit of been bold and reacting like he does, he will have realised that the way you react to his tantrums in public pribably gets more attention than when ye are at home and you can ignore him and let him roar/scream as he is not annoying anyone else.
When you do bring him some where keep it as short as possible and if he does start to playup, just leave everything and go home and if he has got anything during that trip a little toy,sweets ect take it off him when ye get home. If you stick to a simple clear way of dealing with his tantrums he will learn. When he kicks off at home use the exact same words each time to scold him, tell him no very clearly then tell him you are going to count to 3 and if he doesnt stop you will put him in his play pen. I suggest playpen rather than cot because if he starts headbanging or kicking the sides he wont get hurt.
Take heart his level of comprehension will start getting better and a few months should make a big difference. Best of luck.

Daisy M

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I am a very harsh parent, I don't mollycoddle and I only give hugs if he has a really bad fall. Seriously I have been called cruel because I have told him to just get up after a fall.
!

I have to comment on this part of your earlier post. When you say your a harsh parent and only give hugs if he has a really bad fall do you really mean that? I am a fairly strict parent but hugs, kisses I love yous are unlimited in our house and I personally believe that this is key to any childs well been and confidence. I think you need to try and see things from your sons perspective a little more, just because you know that if he has a little fall and hurts himself the pain will pass quickly, he doesnt know that its all new to him, at that age every small booboo should be given a little kiss, every scribble on paper should be likened to a masterpiece. You wont mollycoddle him because as he gets bigger you will pull back little by little and he will learn to pick himself up and run off. Give softer parenting a try I think it could really help. Kids thrive on been shown how loved they are, I can tell he is important and loved by you from your posts make sure he knows it too.

wolfpawnat

is mise astra wrote: »

I have to comment on this part of your earlier post. When you say your a harsh parent and only give hugs if he has a really bad fall do you really mean that? I am a fairly strict parent but hugs, kisses I love yous are unlimited in our house and I personally believe that this is key to any childs well been and confidence. I think you need to try and see things from your sons perspective a little more, just because you know that if he has a little fall and hurts himself the pain will pass quickly, he doesnt know that its all new to him, at that age every small booboo should be given a little kiss, every scribble on paper should be likened to a masterpiece. You wont mollycoddle him because as he gets bigger you will pull back little by little and he will learn to pick himself up and run off. Give softer parenting a try I think it could really help. Kids thrive on been shown how loved they are, I can tell he is important and loved by you from your posts make sure he knows it too.

Hugs and kisses are a big thing to me and my son, when he feels like giving them, but I refuse to give them for small falls and tumbles. I feel they cause all falls to be seen as something to cry over, and that causes those children that are insufferable. He just gets up and say uh-oh and wipes his hands off his pants, that way when he does cry I know he needs cuddles.

Softer parenting only got me so annoyed and upset that I could not even eat while my son was awake. I am serious, he would cry when I ate and as a result I starved all day, crying with hunger so he could control the situation. If he was not allowed my food, he would cry/throw my food to the floor. Also I want a little man, not a mammy's little precious who ends up being one of those weird men that never leaves home. I want him to be ringing me from a foreign country telling me he was surfing today and he thinks he saw a Great White Shark, and me freaking out worrying about him but knowing that he is a sturdy man, able for the world!

wolfpawnat

is mise astra wrote: »

I would advise you to try and avoid for now as much as possible situations where he is more inclined to act up. I know you are probably doing the train trip to visit family, but this sounds extremely stressful on you both as is going on shopping trips ect, if you could keep these trips to a minimum or go by yourself when your partner can mind your son.

Sadly this is not an option, his father leaves the house at 7-8 most days of thee week, and is not back until the equivalent in the PM. He has study to do on Saturdays and Sundays also. His dad doesn't get much time to himself, so when he does get it, we go out for walks and stuff, which are annoying because if we go to playground he goes mad when we are leaving some times and I often have to bribe him with food to stay quiet.

is mise astra wrote: »

if he doesnt stop you will put him in his play pen. I suggest playpen rather than cot because if he starts headbanging or kicking the sides he wont get hurt.
Take heart his level of comprehension will start getting better and a few months should make a big difference. Best of luck.

Sadly he cannot do this either, he can climb out of his playpen, so that is a big problem with him. My bed is a safe place for that, it is against the wall and I make sure it is padded for him, but he can get off it so it is not much of a punishment.

metrovelvet

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Hugs and kisses are a big thing to me and my son, when he feels like giving them, but I refuse to give them for small falls and tumbles. I feel they cause all falls to be seen as something to cry over, and that causes those children that are insufferable. He just gets up and say uh-oh and wipes his hands off his pants, that way when he does cry I know he needs cuddles.

Softer parenting only got me so annoyed and upset that I could not even eat while my son was awake. I am serious, he would cry when I ate and as a result I starved all day, crying with hunger so he could control the situation. If he was not allowed my food, he would cry/throw my food to the floor. Also I want a little man, not a mammy's little precious who ends up being one of those weird men that never leaves home. I want him to be ringing me from a foreign country telling me he was surfing today and he thinks he saw a Great White Shark, and me freaking out worrying about him but knowing that he is a sturdy man, able for the world!

Repectfully, he is only two years old. For him to have the confidence to branch out he needs secure attachment. I dont think it creates insufferable children necessarily. Im a little confused though... you seem to be saying your son is hard work, especially in public, and don't want him to be insufferable and yet the bahavior you describe does sound 'insufferable'?


Everyone feels pain differently, depending on their sensitivity levels.

Why do you think he'd cry when you ate?

Btw I eat after my little one has gone to bed, I still find dinner time very stressful, not because of the kind of thing you are talking about but because it takes so much management, but I sit with him while he eats.

And I would cut out the train trips if they are that bad. I only did them for medical reasons otherwise I dont do them.

wolfpawnat

metrovelvet wrote: »

Repectfully, he is only two years old. For him to have the confidence to branch out he needs secure attachment. I dont think it creates insufferable children necessarily. Im a little confused though... you seem to be saying your son is hard work, especially in public, and don't want him to be insufferable and yet the bahavior you describe does sound 'insufferable'?


Everyone feels pain differently, depending on their sensitivity levels.

Why do you think he'd cry when you ate?

Btw I eat after my little one has gone to bed, I still find dinner time very stressful, not because of the kind of thing you are talking about but because it takes so much management, but I sit with him while he eats.

Yes he can be insufferable, but it is a recent problem which is lessening again Thank God. But there are some children that even I fear!

He cried when I ate because I did not give him my attention. I was busy cooking and prepping food. He would drag out of me and try to pull stuff onto himself (my biggest fear being a pot of water). I eat now when he goes to bed, but I should have the option to eat when suits me and his dad, not just him. I was going without breakfast lunch and dinner, if I waited til he fell asleep, he would wake up if he heard/smelt food cooking (I kid you not).

I have a tendency to show I can be more stubborn than him by doing what needs to be done, regardless of his behaviour.

Children may only be small, but they are always learning and testing their boundaries, I feel it best to prove mine to him. He seems to learn best from that.

As for the journeys, they are not because I want to go up and down the country, they are because I have to for medical reasons and for his dad's work experience for college meaning we all have to go to Clare.