how explicit can english short stories be?

aranciata

I noticed in the exam handbook that no pornographic material is allowed to be put anywhere in the exam answer booklets, does this apply to explicit short stories? what if it can be justified as artistic expression? would an examiner be offended? or should i just invent a heavy-handed metaphor for sex and violence that's not explicit?

aranciata

i ask because i've been watching a lot of lars von trier movies, and i'm really interested by how guilt and everything evil can be manifested through sex.

Salty

What kind of short story are you writing?:eek: I'd say you'd have to be careful enough about your references/metaphors about sex and violence, particularly the former. If it doesn't comply with what they accept, you could be marked down considerably.

My teacher has told us to try to stay away from death in terms of murders, suicide and anything graphic, because it's a bit predictable, and the examiner mightn't like it.

EDIT: I've also been told by my teacher that those stories where nothing overly dramatic really happens, are the best ones to go for. Focus on the development of the character, and create vivid scenes. Have a climax of some sort, an argument of some kind or a confrontation, whether that be with a person or a situation, but try to avoid killing off the characters.

Patriciamc93

I think to a certain extinct it is allowed but bear (spelling is wrong) In mind that you may get a 60 year old correcting your paper...... And while they would be looking at the techniques you used the story will have a big impact!
English is extremely subjective!

Basically it would be a risk at the end of the day. But I suppose your story would stand apart from the rest as it would be memorable!

Hope this helped!

Framble

I wrote a story about rape for my Junior Cert against the advice of my teacher... I blame my C on that.
Anyway, you're just best to write something that they couldn't have any serious objection to... no point being risqué when your potential college future is at stake.

stealinhorses

Most of the things that von Trier does cannot be justified as artistic expression, more like pseudo-sophisticated nonsense bordering on violent pornography.
Therefore, I would stay away from cheaply controversial stories about sex and violence, and focus on how guilt and other negative emotions can be reflected in one moment in a character's lifetime or even through the use of pathetic fallacy.

Chuchoter

A nun could be correcting your essay. Always keep that nun in mind.:p

Dannnnn

I went into quite an amount of detail on the breasts of a particular woman in a short story I did in the mocks, and the story was more focused on 9/11.

I got a B2 for that story that wasn't even finished, so maybe it was magnificent detail of the breasts that gave me such a good mark, or just simply the perversion of a filthy examiner.

RocketFalls

Are you good at metaphors? Adept at the art of allusion? I wouldn't recommend going all Chuck Palahniuk on something that has a very real impact on your college prospects.

Wolfe Tone

I wrote about rape for a number of my essays in school, and had a sex scene in my LC essay.
I got an A2.


Just dont write a bloody porn script and you will be fine.

MikeHough

_meehan_ wrote: »

Have a climax of some sort, an argument of some kind or a confrontation, whether that be with a person or a situation, but try to avoid killing off the characters.

Well I think we can all imagine what the "climax" would be.
:pac::pac::pac:

paulmclaughlin

sent me a copy of your essay when you're done...

so i can 'review' it.

Wolfe Tone

I had a person get murdered in mine...

randylonghorn

English can be subjective to a point, and this is a *very* subjective aspect.

Personally, provided it was well-written and integral to the story / advanced the plot, I would have no problem with it; gratuitous and appearing as if it had been included simply for shock value, inappropriate / tasteless, poorly written ... well then it's not going to get good marks.

In essence, I suppose, I would take the same approach as I would if you were writing about mountain-climbing or doing the ironing ... i.e. I would judge the piece of writing on its merits, rather than getting all hot and bothered because it mentioned the s-e-x word! :rolleyes:

But here's the rub ... what I might consider had crossed the boundaries of good taste and was simply gratuitous might be very different from what an older or more conservative corrector might so deem. So while they might take the same basic approach as I would, and genuinely try to judge the story solely on its merits, the result might nevertheless be somewhat different.

So while I would certainly not be urging "twee" on you, I suppose I would advise a modicum of caution.

Grindylow

I wrote mine in my mocks about a kidnapping/murder, albeit there wasn't much graphic details, just a paragraph about the death but I did the story in the style of the girl looking back upon her life. Started with her in a field just thinking, and it wasn't shown she'd been murdered until the end of the story.

I got 75% which was the best grade given in the class so I suppose it just depends on how you deal with the graphic details and how your examiner will deal with them.

Toto Wolfcastle

randylonghorn wrote: »

Personally, provided it was well-written and integral to the story / advanced the plot, I would have no problem with it; gratuitous and appearing as if it had been included simply for shock value, inappropriate / tasteless, poorly written ... well then it's not going to get good marks.

This.

In my experience of correcting English short stories, very few people can do this well. You need to be able to make it seem as if the story would be nothing without it.

randylonghorn

There's never going to be a problem with that, though, Noel ... just to clarify for everyone reading! The fact that a short story deals with a crime of some sort, be it murder or kidnapping or whatever, will never be an issue.

It's the "explicit" bit from the OP which needs to be treated with caution.

Chuchoter

OP, I'd nearly say you're better off kind of 'insinuating' that there is a very strong,dark relationship between your characters because then it will be a lot more subtle and won't come off as OMG people are having sex, aren't I shocking and cutting edge?! which writing about sex and murder is wont to sound like. For example, a fair few of my short stories for English have very slight gay subtexts, but unless you're looking for them you aren't going to find them and I like the way they add another layer to the story (even if I'm the only one that knows its there!) . I don't know if I intend on doing a short story at all for the LC though, just because one persons idea of a good short story may be very different to mine.

aranciata

thanks everyone for the input!

i'm not interested in just shocking the examiner, i'd only use the sex/violence for the character development as it would be integral to the story. i think it's definitely important to provoke the examiner, it's so necessary to provoke them into thought and hopefully, give them a new perspective on something! i was worried that any pornographic writing of any kind would dock me marks as it's against the rules of the exam - not that i wish to arouse the examiner to improve my grade! no way!

i've realised that the examiner has no choice but to read my short story, while I had the choice before I watched movies such as Antichrist and Dogville, with this strong explicit material, if i wanted to watch them or not. i don't want to pander to the examiner's interest, but i don't want to disturb them either.

unless the short story question mentions the "horrors of mind" or something similar, i won't risk it.

aranciata

stealinhorses wrote: »

Most of the things that von Trier does cannot be justified as artistic expression, more like pseudo-sophisticated nonsense bordering on violent pornography.
Therefore, I would stay away from cheaply controversial stories about sex and violence, and focus on how guilt and other negative emotions can be reflected in one moment in a character's lifetime or even through the use of pathetic fallacy.

With the exception of Breaking the Waves and those silly Nazi comments he made at Cannes, there is meaning behind Von Trier's provocation! Nothing wrong with provoking an audience, I think that film should be an experience that makes you feel something (shock, horror, etc.), regardless of whether it's "good" or "bad".

Pathetic fallacy was so prevalent in Antichrist - Eden was the women's mental state and the Three Beggars, burning ground and anthropomorphic trees all represented her corrupt mind! The movie is genius!

Framble

Are we allowed use swear words?

Toto Wolfcastle

Framble wrote: »

Are we allowed use swear words?

Again, unless the swear words actually add something to the short story I would stay away from them. Gratuitous use of swear words just looks sloppy imo.

stealinhorses

Nothing wrong with provoking an audience, I think that film should be an experience that makes you feel something (shock, horror, etc.), regardless of whether it's "good" or "bad".

I don't wanna turn this into a discussion about cinematography, but in the context of the LC, I don't think a short story should have a shock value just to make the examiner feel "something". If a story/movie is needlessly graphic and lacks substantive merit then it deserves to be called offensive just for wasting people's time.

aranciata

stealinhorses wrote: »

I don't wanna turn this into a discussion about cinematography, but in the context of the LC, I don't think a short story should have a shock value just to make the examiner feel "something". If a story/movie is needlessly graphic and lacks substantive merit then it deserves to be called offensive just for wasting people's time.

I wholly agree that short stories shouldn't be needlessly graphic to provoke a response, but I think that more than anything else, including a narrative experience, film is a visual experience and those "indulgences" are redeemable. I didn't enjoy the mutilation in Antichrist, but at least it had some effect on me, and it made me "feel" something, which schlock like The Matrix certainly didn't.

Ghillie2k4

I wrote an essay about being on a desert island and going insane after dehydration and told 5 pages of how I became insane through dehydration and starvation and one of my characters considered cannabilism and personifying a trapped fish as god testing me by prolonging my death.
heavy stuff
got a B1. i think the line should be drawn at detailing sex and cannabilsm in terms of sex and violence respectively

Android 666

aranciata wrote: »

i ask because i've been watching a lot of lars von trier movies, and i'm really interested by how guilt and everything evil can be manifested through sex.

Not trying to be smart here but have you even had sex? Guilt and evil are the last things being manifested when I'm getting down to it…

I don't mean too sound too harsh but some of von Trier’s misogyny disguised as cinematic art is truly repellent and pretentious beyond belief. This is a man that added von to his name to make it sound more grandiose and who seems to have an almost pathological desire to needlessly provoke - whether it be his audience or his actors.

I know when somebody is in the first flush of discovery of arthouse films and the like, there's a tendency to be quite opinionated about and a desire to emulate. Something I'm sure I probably did myself but I'd echo other posters in saying there's a time and a place. If you want to write a story about genital mutilation in your spare time, I'd say knock yourself out but I think when you're writing your essay in your leaving cert I exercise a bit of caution.

aranciata

I don't find anything evil or worthy of guilt about sex, I just found it interesting how sex was used in Antichrist, and how sex was the cause of her madness and she was so at odds with sex, she wanted to have sex, then she wanted to be "punished" and then she "punishes" herself and her husband for what they've done. Antichrist is most definitely misogynistic movie, but I think it's important to separate the art from the artist. I think that Von Trier is just self-loathing, and because all of the protagonists in his movies are women who represent his personality in some way, and because they suffer, it comes across as misogyny. Just as Charlotte Gainsbourg's character hated herself in Anitchrist for being a woman, maybe Von Trier hates himself for being a German. After all, wasn't it his finding out that he was not a Jew but a German that caused him to slip into the depression that created Antichrist? I'm probably giving him too much credit.

I don't know, I guess I like being provoked - I like having a response and feeling engaged to a story. I've never left a Von Trier movie feeling bored or apathetic!