**Spoilers** Series 6, Episode 7 - "A Good Man Goes To War"

pixelburp

Very exciting - it's the mid season finale, and it's all about to kick off I suspect. There are so many open questions left dangling this season ("Bad Wolf" this isn't), it's hard to know where to start:Who is the eye-patched woman?

• Where is Amy; why is her child of such importance to these people?
• On that - who is the father? Rory? The Doctor? AN Other?
• Where does the Time-Lord child from episode 1 fit in?
• And speaking of - is that the last of the Silence?
• What about The Doctor's death in ep1; will we get closure on this?
• And who is River Song, really? The trailer suggested we finally find out exactly who she is - but I predict a fake-out.
• Question Mark?

No clips this week: they exist, but feck it; think it's best if I don't in case some people have been avoiding them. Once again the BBC have managed to spoil (bigtime) who's going to appear in this story. They have really outdone themselves this time with some of the photos released.

Hold my calls, and if anyone asks on Saturday, I'm not in.

Sleepy

I'm at a wedding tomorrow... how unsociable would it be to sneak up to the hotel room to watch this?

Doctor DooM

Im gonna watch the **** out of this.

I haven't been looking forward to a piece of television so much in a decade I think.

Raedwald

Sadly i'm going to be in work for this so going to have to watch it on bbc iplayer when i get home.

I fear as usual with alot of mid series endings that they episode will leave alot more questions than answers.

Mr.Saturn

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm at a wedding tomorrow... how unsociable would it be to sneak up to the hotel room to watch this?

I've done far worse. I far prefer the sense of occasion that comes with watching on its first transmission. Event television in its truest,
and indeed, finest form.

Raphael

pixelburp wrote: »

No clips this week: they exist, but feck it; think it's best if I don't in case some people have been avoiding them. Once again the BBC have managed to spoil (bigtime) who's going to appear in this story. They have really outdone themselves this time with some of the photos released.

Much obliged mate - been keeping myself in the dark (bar the prequel), can't wait for this ep. Going to a BBQ in a mates house tomorrow, he hasn't a TV, so half the people there are going to migrate to another guys place down the road at 6:40 then come back. =D

Agent J

Raphael wrote: »

Much obliged mate - been keeping myself in the dark (bar the prequel), can't wait for this ep. Going to a BBQ in a mates house tomorrow, he hasn't a TV, so half the people there are going to migrate to another guys place down the road at 6:40 then come back. =D

You just need to pray my TV doesnt decide to blow again

Raphael

If it does we'll roam the neighbourhood, listening for TARDIS noises.

Manach

I'm imagining the last Roman Centurion going to war in Rory. Should make Gladiator look tame .

jasonb

Looking forward to this one, but I expect more questions than answers!

Two things I've been thinking about. Firstly, with 'when was Amy swapped?', I'm thinking it was after she told the Doctor she was pregnant ( as we know now that she is ) and before she told the Doctor that she wasn't pregnant any more ( as the flesh isn't )?

And secondly, River & The Doctor are travelling in different directions through their time lines ( i.e. the first time we - & The Doctor - meet River, she dies and since then she's younger each time ). So, does that mean that each time we meet her, she doesn't know what happened in the previous episodes, 'cos it hasn't happened to her yet? So when we see her this evening, she won't know who The Silence are, for example? Until she reads her book, which now takes on the role of not only being spoilers for The Doctor, but also for her?

J.

bren2001

jasonb wrote: »

And secondly, River & The Doctor are travelling in different directions through their time lines ( i.e. the first time we - & The Doctor - meet River, she dies and since then she's younger each time ). So, does that mean that each time we meet her, she doesn't know what happened in the previous episodes, 'cos it hasn't happened to her yet? So when we see her this evening, she won't know who The Silence are, for example? Until she reads her book, which now takes on the role of not only being spoilers for The Doctor, but also for her?

J.

She knows nothing about the episodes we have seen here in e.g. the Silence. Her book will not have what the Doctor has already done. For her the Silence, the Library etc. has not happened so how could it be in the book? Her book is only "spoilers" for the Doctor but the Doctors mind is "spoilers" for her. They share no memories together.

I expect the Doctor to start a more intimate relationship with River this week after their "last" kiss.

pixelburp

Btw, for those who might have been paying better attention that me during season 6: did we ever get to the bottom of what caused the events of the season 5 finale? I remember the Doctor saying that something took control of the TARDIS to cause it to blow up - I'm not sure we ever got closure on that.

Raphael

Don't believe that's been hinted at yet.

Gambler

pixelburp wrote: »

Once again the BBC have managed to spoil (bigtime) who's going to appear in this story. They have really outdone themselves this time with some of the photos released.

I happened to have BBC 1 on in the background earlier today and the number of spoilerific adverts they had on was ridiculous!

off.the.walls

My god this dancing show needs to hurry the hell up!!

Links234

OMG

Also Starring LeVar Burton

What the WHAT????
Didn't see that coming - they can't end it like that! I need closure - how long till Autumn???

Cormic

I was not surprised at all. My wife predicted it weeks ago.

Daemos

Ahem

Manach

Autumn technically starts in August - don'it?

off.the.walls

Gotta say saw that coming a mile away, but still what a amazing episode! Its cool that River is part time lord though!

Rowley Birkin QC

River....Pond......It's all so obvious now. :P

Great episode.

Killer_banana

Wow I made a prediction about a tv show and got it right. That's a first.

Brilliant brilliant episode. I'm delighted that they managed to make the child part timelord yet still have it be Rory and Amy's; really didn't want Rory vs the Doctor brought up again. I love how Rory called Amy Mrs. Williams when he came to rescue her. Also loved the Doctor speaking baby and the fat and thin gay married Anglican marines. Pity Fat ended up headless.

I'm going to cut this post short since I'll probably just end up listing everything I loved which is basically most of the episode.

E.T.A: How did the TARDIS know?

mach1982

Great Episode , for second I though the girl solider , Laura was River.

I was 95% right, River is Amy's daughter and she is a Time Lady , and she is the child in the first episode. The Doctor know where they taken her the Forest . Question, do you think the Silence was trying to help the Doctor as they are time travellers to, that why the took Amy to find if she was the flesh .
Melody Pond is brought up in military environment the she be refereed to a Pond,Melody ie River Song. Also the the master when he wipe his memory was know a Professor Yara, and River is Professor and a Doctor , kick myself for not see the connection. We also know why the Darleaks were afraid of her, she's Time Lady , the only the begin they afraid of is the Doctor .

A Time lord can regenerate, then why did river not regenerate, when she died. Was it because that were last regeration, or may it because it just her conscientious that was still alive an her body was just a empty shell

mach1982

BTW way that was fast


http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/River_Song

Yahew

she's not full timelord.

Feral Mutant

mach1982 wrote: »

A Time lord can regenerate, then why did river not regenerate, when she died. Was it because that were last regeration, or may it because it just her conscientious that was still alive an her body was just a empty shell

She's not quite a timelord. Anyway she didn't regenerate because of how she died. In that episode when the Doctor was planning on being the one to connect to the library she said "You'll burn up both your hearts and don't think you'll regenerate".

mach1982

Feral Mutant wrote: »

She's not quite a timelord. Anyway she didn't regenerate because of how she died. In that episode when the Doctor was planning on being the one to connect to the library she said "You'll burn up both your hearts and don't think you'll regenerate".

Of course .

Also i been look tweets and comments on tumblar,
River see the doctors cot , and say that she hasn't seen it in a while . And what doses it say say is Galafreyian not her name . What if She and doctor are the birth of the Time Lord race?

jim-jam

Were the hooded figures in the series 5 finale the headless monks then?

If we're right about the child being the astronaut then River does kill the best man she's ever known.

Yahew

The time line as I see it is

• River is brought up to kill the doctor. It is something she has to do. She can't escape that destiny( mind control).
• The doctor befriends her and to lift the curse directs her ( as a child) to kill his future self when he is 200 years older than "now". I think this is a real killing. He feels he has lived long enough then.
• She goes to jail. One she can escape any time as a time lord. She stays in prison as penance.
• As she grows older she meets the doctor more and more. He takes her on outings and adventures..
• She dies on the day he doesnt know her.
• Only weird bit here is older River's reaction to the killing. Or was she surprised? Must go back and watch. And why is the Doctor bringing his younger self?

Anyway - that bit seems obvious - that, or Moffat has more surprises up his sleeve and is playing misdirection again, as he always does.

aidan_walsh

So Rory suspected the Doctor has been carrying on with his wife, but in actuality he'd been carrying on with his daughter.

Well, if that in itself isn't enough drama for the next episode...

Feral Mutant

Yahew wrote: »

Only weird bit here is older River's reaction to the killing. Or was she surprised?

Possibly because of the silents. When Amy was captured back in Day of the Moon she didn't know she'd been there for days, they said her memory was weak, most likely from being around them. Amy saw a silent the day at the lake and River didn't seem to recognise her spacesuit either.

Killer_banana

mach1982 wrote: »

Of course .

Also i been look tweets and comments on tumblar,
River see the doctors cot , and say that she hasn't seen it in a while . And what doses it say say is Galafreyian not her name . What if She and doctor are the birth of the Time Lord race?

There's something going on with the cot anyway. In confidential Alex King said something along the lines of

'It is the Doctor's cot but...all I can say is it might not have been only his. How many other babies have slept in it?'

mach1982

Just realised the Doctor been travelling with his Mother -in-law:eek:

Yahew

mach1982 wrote: »

Just realised the Doctor been travelling with his Mother -in-law:eek:

?

EDIT: I get that now :-)

Yeah, maybe

Daemos

aidan_walsh wrote: »

So Rory suspected the Doctor has been carrying on with his wife, but in actuality he'd been carrying on with his daughter.

Well, if that in itself isn't enough drama for the next episode...

And people say RTD turned the show into a soap opera...

pixelburp

Did anyone catch the brief trailer after the episode aired? Basically it featured

a slow pan across a skeleton holding a sonic screwdriver; ending on the titles "Time Runs Out". I'm guessing series 6 part 2 will focus on the Doctor's death.

Epic stuff though; I was stealing myself for a cocktease-level ending, and sure enough we got one. Not even sure where to begin with the River Song revelation because I'm sure in the coming days / months it'll be discussed in full. What I will say about those who claimed "I predicted it!" is that nearly all of us had our own personal theories on who River was; it was only natural someone would be right

So instead I'm going to talk about the episode other than the River bit...

Also flippin' Epic! Had to laugh that the Cybermen had no business in the episode other than to feature as a 100% kick-ass opening gambit from the Doctor / Rory. "Would you like me to repeat the question?" indeed! Least it confirmed that "our" universe has regular cybermen.

Oh amid all the River based craziness; am I the only one hoping for a return of that Victorian Silurian & her companion? I'd be surprised if they were just cyphers / once-off characters for that episode. They're left with Rory/Amy so maybe we'll see them again.

Also loved the Sontaran "nurse"; offering to breast-feed the baby, lol. Not sure we needed the human girl though; she seemed like a waste of a character. Until she got bumped off I presumed it was all an introduction, but no; she was just a redshirt.

Roll on the Autumn.

Stark

Anyone else find it a little creepy how excited the Doctor became at the prospect of "kissy kissy"with Amy's
daughter?

Yahew

Stark wrote: »

Anyone else find it a little creepy how excited the Doctor became at the prospect of "kissy kissy"with Amy's
daughter?

I think he may have been worried that she was his daughter up until now. Probably reading the forums. Now he is free for a snog.

mach1982

Any remember in the Impossible astronaut , well think was Amy and River they comparing diaries , and Amy's look a lot like rivers. Is rives diary a heirloom inherited from her mother, al In Flesh and Stome River and the same watch as Amy

aidan_walsh

River and the Doctor compared identical diaries, Amy (IIRC) didn't have one.

Yahew

Knowing River Song's story now makes this first/last meeting more poignant.

They compare diaries at 2:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SzCgcF5Hws&feature=related

River's worst day.

Penn

Wait a minute..... When River first met The Doctor (Tenth Doctor), she knew his real name. Is that because she read it on The Doctor's cot?

I mean, River can read Gallifreyan, and it was whatever was written on the cot that made The Doctor realise who she was, not the prayer leaf thing. And since it was The Doctor's cot, there shouldn't be anything written on it that would be associated with River Song/Melody Pond. So it must have been his own name, right?

Brilliant episode though. Was so sure the big reveal was going to be River killing Rory, especially with the way she was acting so weird with him at the start.

Feral Mutant

Barrington wrote: »

Wait a minute..... When River first met The Doctor (Tenth Doctor), she knew his real name. Is that because she read it on The Doctor's cot?

I mean, River can read Gallifreyan, and it was whatever was written on the cot that made The Doctor realise who she was, not the prayer leaf thing. And since it was The Doctor's cot, there shouldn't be anything written on it that would be associated with River Song/Melody Pond. So it must have been his own name, right?

I thought the writing was Melody Pond/River Song, I just figured the Doctor painted it on the side before he brought the cot out. Didn't River gesture to it when she said she was telling him who she was and then he realised it, or was she was pointing at the stitched thing?

Basq

Only got a chance to watch now.. but what an epic episode!

Everyone put in damn fine performances - but particularly Arthur Darvil and Matt Smith (as per usual). Surely that pre-credit sequence / line must be Arthur Darvil's proudest moment as Rory.. sublime!

I loved the lingering absence of the Doctor until maybe 10 minutes into the episode. Fantastic!

Loved the Sontaran dying, and Rory saying "you'll be fine.. you're a soldier" and the Sontaran looks directly back at Rory and says "I'm a nurse". I'd actually forgotten Rory's occupation until that line cropped up!

The revelation of River Song's true identity was interesting, but not hugely shocking. I'd be interested to know how long Moffat has planned this. I mean the whole introduction of Pond / River thing couldn't be a coincidence surely.

Gonna be a long few months wait!

Yahew

Moffat has planned River Song from the beginning. Its all in the Diaries. Jim the Fish is coming up.

Basq

For those who missed it..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU4ENbt9LzY

And an interesting piece here:

Could Steven Moffat have been plotting tonight's Doctor Who mid-series finale for SIXTEEN years?

We jest - but only slightly, as this link to a newsgroup posting for January 1995 reveals (credit @notdange).

Click to read.

In the posting on rec.arts.drwho, titled 'Dr. Who's real name', a poster signing as Steven Moffat writes:

Here's a particularly stupid theory. If we take "The Doctor" to be the Doctor's name - even if it is in the form of a title no doubt meaning something deep and Gallifreyan - perhaps our earthly use of the word "doctor" meaning healer or wise man is direct result of the Doctor's multiple interventions in our history as a healer and wise man. In other words, we got it from him. This is a very silly idea and I'm consequently rather proud of it.

Sound familiar? While we can't be sure it was the man itself, it's kind of amazing

pixelburp

Oh and another point from tonight's episode that's independent of the River saga is; who are the headless monks? I find it hard to believe they were just inserted into the episode arbitrarily, as they didn't actually do anything except threaten Doctor's version of Magnificent Seven (again, Victorian Silurians with samurai swords work for me), and generally be ultra-creepy.

The monks seem to much in the foreground to just be arbitrary monsters-of-the-week. Especially in an episode featuring cybermen, Sontarans & Silurians. They teamed up with that human faction to go to war against the Doctor - but what's their specific agenda? Ditto the humans themselves; are they some sort of alliance of worlds? The dialogue between the grunts at the start hinted at that.

Argh!
See, I fecking knew it. More questions than answers.

Penn

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh and another point from tonight's episode that's independent of the River saga is; who are the headless monks? I find it hard to believe they were just inserted into the episode arbitrarily, as they didn't actually do anything except threaten Doctor's version of Magnificent Seven (again, Victorian Silurians with samurai swords work for me), and generally be ultra-creepy.

The monks seem to much in the foreground to just be arbitrary monsters-of-the-week. Especially in an episode featuring cybermen, Sontarans & Silurians. They teamed up with that human faction to go to war against the Doctor - but what's their specific agenda? Ditto the humans themselves; are they some sort of alliance of worlds? The dialogue between the grunts at the start hinted at that.

Argh!
See, I fecking knew it. More questions than answers.

In last seasons two-parter about the Weeping Angels, The Doctor says that the museum they visit at the beginning (where they see River's message) is the resting place of the last of The Headless Monks or something like that.

In DW: Confidential, they pretty much said that, with the way that army is sort of a religous army (soldiers called clerics and bishops etc) that the Headless Monks are like the SEAL team of the army. The top soldiers in a special branch of the army/church.

phil1nj

Thought this was a pretty good episode, nice reveal at the end. However I'm a tad bit bit confused about one thing. It it was Amy's child in the Astronaut suit in the first 2 episodes, wouldn't River have remembered being that child? They even showed a flashback during this episode of River scanning the suit and commenting on how strong the person would have to be to break out of the suit. Now there are 3 possible explanations as I see it:

a) River couldn't tell anyone due to the whole "spoilers" thing that follows her and the doctor's timelines.
b) She has simply forgotten for some reason (regeneration, memory manipulation etc)
c) The child in the suit is not River/Amy's child but someone else (clone? copy?)

Or have I missed something obvious (wouldn't be the first time)

Doctor DooM

REHOIFGHIFGD

BLARGIHFDALL

Ahem.

I really quite enjoyed that.