English Poetry HL answer structure?

LittleMissLost

I've always written my poetry essays as follows:

Introduction
Poem 1
Poem 2
Poem 3
Poem 4
Poem 5 (sometimes 6)
Conclusion

Our teacher has advised us to do it this way.

However, recently I have spoken to students from other schools (posh schools) and they say that you should discuss one part of the question & refer to all poems then the next part of the question etc.

Sorry if that sounded confusing but this is the way they say to do it:

Introduction
Aspect 1 (theme of love, for example)
Discuss each poem briefly under this theme (2/3 paragraphs)
Aspect 2 (imagery)
Discuss each poem briefly under this poetic tecnique (2/3 paragraphs)
Conclusion.

I know there are no "rules" with regards to this, but does anyone know what is the better way to structure poetry answers?

Thanks

J_E

I just usually have

Opening paragraph tackling question
Poem 1
Poem 2
Poem 3
Poem 4
Conclusion

I make sure each poem is being discussed in a manner that relates to the question. I don't see any need in using more than 4 poems.

However, recently I have spoken to students from other schools (posh schools)

I'm not really sure what you're insinuating by mentioning that they're posh schools, doesn't automatically make the standard of answering better.

Digits

I usually use the 'dip' method as our teacher calls it. I deal with a certain aspect of the poets poetry in a paragraph and make references to each poem where this theme/issue is raised. I keep dipping into poems in the following paragraphs where relevant. Basically this means I could have the same poem in more than one paragraph yet dealing with different aspects of the poets poetry.

LittleMissLost

Cydoniac wrote: »

I'm not really sure what you're insinuating by mentioning that they're posh schools, doesn't automatically make the standard of answering better.

I meant to take "posh schools" out. (My bad) I go to a regular school and our english teachers aren't hectic to tell the truth. They're not terrible by any means but my teacher for example doesn't have a degree in English nor has he ever corrected LC (or JC for that matter) papers. He does do his best but the lack of experience with regard to LC standard and structure makes me question his instruction.

The people I've been speaking to have teachers who have corrected LC papers etc.

You think discussing each poem with relevance to the question is fine then?

Salty

LittleMissLost wrote: »

I meant to take "posh schools" out. (My bad) I go to a regular school and our english teachers aren't hectic to tell the truth. They're not terrible by any means but my teacher for example doesn't have a degree in English nor has he ever corrected LC (or JC for that matter) papers. He does do his best but the lack of experience with regard to LC standard and structure makes me question his instruction.

The people I've been speaking to have teachers who have corrected LC papers etc.

You think discussing each poem with relevance to the question is fine then?

I structure my essays the way you do, discussing each poem with relevance to the question. I always get As in my essays, and my teacher has a lot of experience correcting LC. It depends on what you prefer. I tried the "dip" method, but I used to get bogged down and confused, and because timing is such a huge issue for me, writing about the poems individually just suits me better. Both methods are correct, neither is better than the other.

Chuchoter

I split it up by points relevant to the question. So I have an introduction, say a point related to violence with 2-3 quotes from a few poems, a point on love with a few quotes and a point on use of language with a few quotes. Splitting it up poem by poem isn't going to make your essay particularly coherent.

GoldFour4

LittleMissLost wrote: »

I meant to take "posh schools" out. (My bad) I go to a regular school and our english teachers aren't hectic to tell the truth. They're not terrible by any means but my teacher for example doesn't have a degree in English nor has he ever corrected LC (or JC for that matter) papers. He does do his best but the lack of experience with regard to LC standard and structure makes me question his instruction.

The people I've been speaking to have teachers who have corrected LC papers etc.

You think discussing each poem with relevance to the question is fine then?

How does your school allow him to teach English without a degree in the subject?

Chuchoter

As far as I can tell most teachers don't have a degree in the exact subject they teach.

Duda17

How many poems do ye all talk about in your answers. I was told to only do 3 or 4 at most?

Chuchoter

Generally I do 6.

Framble

My teacher said the 2nd method was more "stylish" but harder to do. He said to practice it a bit but if you don't like it stick to the 1st type... I personally think I'll stick to the first one, I find it much easier.

Fireball07

We were told either way is grand, as long as you don't switch halfway through the essay. Do whatever you're most comfortable with.

I believe it can depend from question to question too. In some questions it might be easier to do it the 2nd way but generally I do it in order of poems.

LilMissCiara

We were told to try and avoid the poem by poem analysis unless the question allows for it (ie. Personal Response type questions) but even then to try attempt it differently.

What we do is something like this:

Intro
Poet (if necessary)
Themes
Language
Imagery
Tone/Mood
Favourite Poem
End

LilMissCiara

malachyscott wrote: »

How does your school allow him to teach English without a degree in the subject?

Unfortunately this is really common. My Irish teacher only got the job because she's from a Gaeltacht. She has no idea about the marking schemes and stuff (according to her if you are between grades, the examiner will go back and put you up to the higher grad for use of paragraphs and stuff.. ). She also knew nothing about the foundation level oral being different to the ordinary one which meant 2 girls went in on the day and the examiner told them they had a different oral so they had to go learn a load of stuff!

Iceboy

-Intro
-Poem 1
-Poem 2
-Poem 3
-Poem 4
-Conclusion

thats my structure

Cardor

We were told its impossible to answer a question on over 5 poems unless your a really fast writer!

When answering a poetry question you have to be as in depth as possible, there is no way somebody could be in depth on a poem if they are incorporating 6 into an answer.. I get 4 - 4 1/2 pages answering 3 poems.. Questions are no longer just personal responses.. they're specific questions and a question will never arise that will allow you to answer as many as 6 poems in an essay. Personally I deem that to be ridiculous!

Dr.Evil

Do about 4 poems but mention another 2/3 and link them in at the end. So it seems that you've studied more, you re-enforce your claims but you don't need to know loads from them. That's how I do it, I structure a poem per paragraph too.

Salty

Dr.Evil wrote: »

Do about 4 poems but mention another 2/3 and link them in at the end. So it seems that you've studied more, you re-enforce your claims but you don't need to know loads from them. That's how I do it, I structure a poem per paragraph too.

I didn't do more than 4 poems in class for any of my poets. My teacher found it a better use of time to do 4 in depth and move on. I doubt it makes my essays any less deserving of a good mark, I hope not anyway!!

LittleMissLost

Thanks for the replies everyone. I have been getting mainly A2's A1's in my peotry essays with the
Intro
Poem 1
2
3
4
conclusion
structure

Basically in the leaving cert you DO think it would be possible to get an A1 using this method.

With 3 days to go I think it's a bit late now to start trying to use the "dip" method! I haven't looked over ANY English yet and am getting pretty nervous!

Cardor

Yeah thats a perfect structure.. even if you only knew 3 poems in depth you would still be fine!

LimMurf

Poetry is the only thing in my leaving cert I'm worried about..
I don't know any poems off by heart but I'm trying to learn them now. It seems to be a trend that each poet has a particular question attached to them that comes up every time they do.
Anybody have any predictions on what poets they think will come up? Eavan Boland this year for sure (I hope). Emily Dickinson..? I'm hoping female poet as this is what our (feminist) teacher has done with us the most!

LittleMissLost

Boland and/or Dickinson methinks..

I just had a thought. Do you think that last year because of all the internet coverage about the Boland predictions that they changed the questions really soon before the exams just because everyone was prepared for her?
Does anyone think that will happen this year?

Cardor

The exam commision makes two papers.. the official and the contingency!

If they believe leaks have become apparent they can change to the contingency at anytime and we won't know the difference, but they wouldn't change it because people are predicting poets that might/should come up, that wouldn't make sense and would defy the point of the examination.

Nobody goes into an exam with their entire course learned off, I left out a lot of stuff in each of my subjects and I still think i'm capable of getting a good result.. :P

DannyC93

My teacher told us we should try and avoid answering our poetry questions poem by poem. Instead we answer theme by theme(with reference to the question). Answering the question given and all parts of it are most important, and this is done most efficiently by discussing each theme and mentioning which poems are included in said theme.

arboroia

Just to let everybody know that in our school they were doing a test about receiving the papers, so the SEC was sending last years contingency paper, and our vice-principal gave them out to us 6th years for study.

So the 2010 contingency paper had the following questions:
Q1: Michael Longley - "Michael Longley's sensitive poetry has the capacity to alter our perception of the world" Agree?
Q2: T.S. Eliot - "The reader must first appreciate T.S.Eliot's poetic style in order to understand his unique view of the world" Agree/Disagree
Q3: Eavan Boland: - "Eavan Boland's poetry is enriched by personal observations that are delivered in an uncomplicated fashion". Do you agree with this assessment of Boland's poetry?
Q4: W.B. Yeats: "Yeats poetry is about what attracted and repelled him in life, and this approach is conveyed in a unique manner" Agree? Use both themes & stylistic features.

Certainly possible they didn't release it due to those predictions!

Framble

Ugh the wording of that Boland question is kind of off-putting... probably would have annoyed a lot of the people who had only prepared her.

AG2R

Iceboy wrote: »

-Intro
-Poem 1
-Poem 2
-Poem 3
-Poem 4
-Conclusion

thats my structure

This will be mine. We were told it doesn't matter what type of structure you actually end up with aslong as it makes sense and the examiner can see your points.

LimMurf

My teacher says that it's good not to go poem by poem because if you do that it's more of a personal response/analysis. She thinks it's better to group the poetry in your answer by common themes in relation to the questi0n. Much like the comparative.

lctake2

It does seem that in 'posh' schools going through it theme by theme is more common than poem by poem. You can get full marks either way though and it this stage it's better to stick with what you know

SDTimeout

I used to write a lot about a lot in poetry.

However it's only worth 50 marks.

4 poems, introduction and conclusion for me breaks down my essay into 5+5, 10,10,10,10 . Just the way i look at the marks, i could be wrong but you can get an A1 standard poetry answer in 3 pages.

LilMissCiara

lctake2 wrote: »

It does seem that in 'posh' schools going through it theme by theme is more common than poem by poem. You can get full marks either way though and it this stage it's better to stick with what you know

I don't see how people come to this conclusion. The teachers in disadvantaged schools went through the same third level system and got similar degrees to teachers in the most privileged of privileged ''posh'' schools.

In my school my teacher teaches what I've seen here as being called the dip method while the other class swear by the poem by poem method.