Do I have enough power for this pump?

LK_Dave

Hi, I need some advice.

I have a requirement for a Clarke 2" Industrial Sewage Pump. The quick spec on the product is :
Max. flow rate 290 l/min
Max. head (lift height) 9.5m
Can pump small solids in suspension
Robust cast iron base with filter
Twin seals, TCT cutting plate & steel waste cutter
Includes 2" (50mm) outlet hose connector & 10m of H07RNF cable
665 Watts, 110V motor

My questions are : I have a 3.5KVA portable generator which can switch between single or three phase. I believe the above pump to be single phase am I right in thinking this?.
Do you think I have enough power in gen (3.5kva) to run the pump?
I don't think it comes with any plug - do I need the industrial blue plug or would an ordinary domestic three pin do?

I can post a link to the website that is selling the pump if the mods allow.

Thanks for your help. D

grousedogtom

Yes your 3.5 kva / 2.8 kw generator will run this load , if your fitting a plugtop you will need a yellow 110volt type either 16amp or 32 amp which ever one your generator takes.Just ensure your generator has a 110 volt outlet and not just 220 volt .

Bruthal

Does 3.5kva = 2.8kw now

I know some generators are listed as that, but it doesnt work quite like that, although when powering motors, it would be about right.

But anyway, OP, grousedogtom is right there.

LK_Dave

Cheers, thanks for the help lads.

2011

robbie7730 wrote: »

Does 3.5kva = 2.8kw now

Generators and transformers are always rated in terms of kVA, not kW.

How many kW they can supply will depend on the size and power factor of the load.

LK_Dave

The is the same pump available but is rated 230v.

Max. flow rate 290 l/min
Max. head (lift height) 9.5m
Can pump small solids in suspension
Robust cast iron base with filter
Twin seals, TCT cutting plate & steel waste cutter
Includes 2" (50mm) outlet hose connector & 10m of H07RNF cable
665 Watts, 230V 1ph motor

Am I correct is assuming that this pump could be powered directly from the mains or my 3.5 kva generator and could therefore be fitted with a domestic 3 pin plug?

Is it possible to get an on/off switch on the plug itself?

Bruthal

2011 wrote: »

Generators and transformers are always rated in terms of kVA, not kW.

How many kW they can supply will depend on the size and power factor of the load.

Yes simplicity itself, is that not what i said in the post? It was a bit of sarcasm using the question mark face thing:)

Bruthal

LK_Dave wrote: »

The is the same pump available but is rated 230v.

Max. flow rate 290 l/min
Max. head (lift height) 9.5m
Can pump small solids in suspension
Robust cast iron base with filter
Twin seals, TCT cutting plate & steel waste cutter
Includes 2" (50mm) outlet hose connector & 10m of H07RNF cable
665 Watts, 230V 1ph motor

Am I correct is assuming that this pump could be powered directly from the mains or my 3.5 kva generator and could therefore be fitted with a domestic 3 pin plug?

665 watts will take roughly 1kva from that generator as a matter of interest.

665 watts will take roughly 1kva from that generator as a matter of interest.

Is it possible to get an on/off switch on the plug itself?

It would work like that alright, but start/stop controls with an overload are best for pumps. Is it going to be a permanent fitting or a mobile/temporary pump?

665 watt motor will take roughly 1kva from that generator as a matter of interest.

LK_Dave

robbie7730 wrote: »

It would work like that alright, but start/stop controls with an overload are best for pumps. Is it going to be a permanent fitting or a mobile/temporary pump?

665 watt motor will take roughly 1kva from that generator as a matter of interest.

It is only a temporary solution - but also a handy backup. Could you direct me to a start/stop control with overload? PM me if posting links to companies is not allowed.

Cheers Dave

M cebee

had a look at those

think they have an iinternal overload fitted

and that 665watts figure is ouput power as far as i can tell

Bruthal

A small motor as well anyway, so direct switch on and off probably do. For permanent fitted though, start/stop prevents them being left on if power went and the user walked off leaving it on with a switch setup.

LK_Dave

Ok so I only need a simple on/off plug? What would be the technical name for this - don't want to confirm I'm a fool when in the hardware/electrical shop trying to describe what I'm after.

M cebee

yes a starter or plug even- prob no need for overload if internal already fitted

i think the actual input power in watts will be the 665 divided by the efficiency-can be confusing at times

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

yes a starter or plug even- prob no need for overload if internal already fitted

i think the actual input power in watts will be the 665 divided by the efficiency-can be confusing at times

The 665 watts rating would be the electrical power the motor is taking.

If its PF is 0.7 then it will be taking 950va or 0.95kva from generator or power supply.

Thats why the generator would be rated in KVA as its kw output would vary depending on the PF of the load, as it can put out a certain current, and as the PF gets lower for motor loads etc, this current x voltage creates less kw power.

3.5kva generator would power 3.5kw heating element, but a motor with 0.7 pf then the generator would only power a 2.4kw motor.

Efficiency probably 50% on that small motor so its output would be 330 watts or so

Bruthal

LK_Dave wrote: »

Ok so I only need a simple on/off plug? What would be the technical name for this - don't want to confirm I'm a fool when in the hardware/electrical shop trying to describe what I'm after.

What exactly will you be doing with it, and will it be permanently fitted?

LK_Dave

robbie7730 wrote: »

What exactly will you be doing with it, and will it be permanently fitted?

It is a temporary solution.

M cebee

robbie7730 wrote: »

The 665 watts rating would be the electrical power the motor is taking.

If its PF is 0.7 then it will be taking 950va or 0.95kva from generator or power supply.

Thats why the generator would be rated in KVA as its kw output would vary depending on the PF of the load, as it can put out a certain current, and as the PF gets lower for motor loads etc, this current x voltage creates less kw power.

3.5kva generator would power 3.5kw heating element, but a motor with 0.7 pf then the generator would only power a 2.4kw motor.

Efficiency probably 50% on that small motor so its output would be 330 watts or so

http://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/water_pumps/cse400a.pdf

i looked at one or two manuals -they quote motor ouput

i'm not certain on this model though

Bruthal

LK_Dave wrote: »

It is a temporary solution.

The start/stop unit has a start and stop button for running a motor. The main advantages of this is controls and motor overload can be linked to the unit to operate the motor/pump in different ways, float switches for example to pump water at certain levels then stop at a lowr level etc.

But for simply turning the motor on and off, a switch could do. But the other advantage of the start/stop starter is if the power goes, and comes back on, the motor wont re-start. So if you went off wondering whats wrong with the power, and forgot the motor was running, it wont run again when power is back.

If its simply a pump on the end of a hose you will use by hand, then a switch might do. Mc cebee might have other suggestions too.

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

http://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/water_pumps/cse400a.pdf

i looked at one or two manuals -they quote motor ouput

i'm not certain on this model though

Yea that manual is output alright.

At 290 litres per minute, this pump has to be the output rating also probably. If so, it would be 1300 watts electrical input and 1.8kva from power supply, very roughly anyway.

Motor rating plates would be the electrical watts the motor is rated at, as in input watts.


It would be a fair kick on the generator for starting that pump i`d say.

LK_Dave

M cebee wrote: »

http://www.clarkeservice.co.uk/manuals/water_pumps/cse400a.pdf

i looked at one or two manuals -they quote motor ouput

i'm not certain on this model though

The pump I looking at is a Clarke HSEC650A......I don't see it on the Clarke manual listings. It is a submersible water/sewage pump with a cutter plate to chop sewage particles and vegetation.

As I said I need a temporary portable solution, to run from my 3.5kva gene. But if I could also run it from the mains as a future option it would be a very handy emergency backup.

M cebee

robbie7730 wrote: »

Yea that manual is output alright.

At 290 litres per minute, this pump has to be the output rating also probably. If so, it would be 1300 watts electrical input and 1.8kva from power supply, very roughly anyway.

Motor rating plates would be the electrical watts the motor is rated at, as in input watts.


It would be a fair kick on the generator for starting that pump i`d say.

think they're generally output watts also - on nameplates

Bruthal

M cebee wrote: »

think they're generally output watts also - on nameplates

I assumed they are electrical input watts, to inform of the requirements for powering it.

M cebee

robbie7730 wrote: »

I assumed they are electrical input watts, to inform of the requirements for powering it.

no don't think so

M cebee

LK_Dave wrote: »

The pump I looking at is a Clarke HSEC650A......I don't see it on the Clarke manual listings. It is a submersible water/sewage pump with a cutter plate to chop sewage particles and vegetation.

As I said I need a temporary portable solution, to run from my 3.5kva gene. But if I could also run it from the mains as a future option it would be a very handy emergency backup.

i think it just needs a plug like this http://www.mudah.my/Outdoor+16Amp+Water+Proof+Plug+n+Socket-5509616.htm

and probably an rcd inline

Bruthal

You could be right, i must check that. Tells full load amps i think as well, on large motors anyway. But i usually viewed a 2kw motor as 2kw electrical input power. Multiply that by efficiency for output. If the 2kw is output power, then 2kw/efficiency would give input.
But anyway....

That pump in question here has a float switch built into it, so you can just switch it on and off directly probalby. Need RCD on it also, most important for water stuff.

LK_Dave

Robbie, M cebee I appreciate your help on this. Just a little concerned that my generator won't be able to start this pump.

LK_Dave

sorry another idiot question, what does RCD stand for/do?

Bruthal

LK_Dave wrote: »

Robbie, M cebee I appreciate your help on this. Just a little concerned that my generator won't be able to start this pump.

It is a concern, but i think it will probably start it alright, but its hard to be certain, as i said a couple of posts back, it will be a good kick on the genny at starting., and if the genny does start it, the pump will start noticeably faster when plugged into the house supply.

M cebee

i think you'll be fine

LK_Dave

robbie7730 wrote: »

It is a concern, but i think it will probably start it alright, but its hard to be certain, as i said a couple of posts back, it will be a good kick on the genny at starting.

Ok I understand, cheers.

Bruthal

LK_Dave wrote: »

Ok I understand, cheers.

The genny will just slow down a bit as the pump starts, which in itself will reduce the starting current of the pump motor, but the motor will still begin to turn, and once that happens the genny will recover quickly. So it should start it ok.

The RCD is residual current device, in reference to current leaking to earth, which means earth faults, this device trips the power in such situations, which make operating any portable or water based appliances far safer.