Italy v. Ireland | 7th June | KO: 19:45 in Liege | SS2

everdead.ie

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Was sure I read somewhere they were decided, but cheers for that. Norway are somehow a Pot 1 team - when was the last time they qualified for anything? :eek:

Ya saw that the other day ranked 11th in the world 8th in Europe

bonerm

Meh, we're around 30th in the world and haven't qualified for anything or even beaten a top team in 10 years. So what does it mean? More to the ranking than just qualifying for stuff. Norways results have been quite consistent for a decade now (certainly better than ours for the corresponding period at least).

everdead.ie

bonerm wrote: »

Meh, we're around 30th in the world and haven't qualified for anything or even beaten a top team in 10 years. So what does it mean? More to the ranking than just qualifying for stuff. Norways results have been quite consistent for a decade now (certainly better than ours for the corresponding period at least).

Beat Italy last week they're 6th in Europe 9th in the world.(see current thread)

Looking at it I'm wondering were these friendlies conveniently placed to help pump us up to try and get into the second pot?

bonerm

everdead.ie wrote: »

Beat Italy last week they're 6th in Europe 9th in the world.(see current thread)

Thanks but I'm talking about in a real game and not just a friendly.

newballsplease

bonerm wrote: »

Thanks but I'm talking about in a real game and not just a friendly.

Friendlys are counted in the rankings afaik

bonerm

newballsplease wrote: »

Friendlys are counted in the rankings afaik

They are indeed. The're worth about 0.4 of a qualifer and 0.25 of a finals match (e.g. beating Italy in a world cup finals match is worth 4 times as much as beating them in a friendly).

However that said I'd reckon managers and players don't value them even that highly in terms of results..

everdead.ie

Having looked at the games and how we did in those games even counting Northern Ireland and Scotland as friendlies the number of points we get from these games should be considerable and should see us jump up a lot in the rankings I did the maths but I think Wikipedia have the points system messed up because when you do out the math it works out as being worth like 2,243pts so I'm trying to find something more official.

Edit ok so what they do is take the last 12 months as one block and add all the points and get the average and thats how the points for that section is worth.
they then multiply that block by 1 (we played 13 matches and averaged over those games 377 points from the last 12 months)
the next block is 12-24 months and is worth 50% of the average points
24-36 is worth 30% and 36-48 is worth 20% of the points.

Also does anyone know why we are suddenly top of our group on uefa.com? I thought we were meant to be bottom because slovakia and Russia have more points then us in our mini league?

Bukman13

Ireland's ranking is so poor because the FAI tend to organise too many friendlies. The problem with friendlies is they are only worth very few points but add to the total number of games played.

Ireland have played 13 games (friendlies and competitive combined) in the last 12 months. We have accumulated about 5000 points in those 13 games which gives us an average of 385.

If we excluded the friendlies against Argentina, Norway, and Uruguay, games in which we got 0 points our yearly average would rise to 500 points (5000/10). Leaving our overall ranking points at about 870 (over the past 4years) which puts us comfortably in pot 2.

In fact had the FAI scrapped just one of those 3 games we would have probably scrapped into pot 2 with approx 784 points.

The reason for Montenegro's high ranking is because they tend to play very few friendlies, they only played 8 games in the last 12 months, so their total points accumulated is only divided by 8 (compared to Ireland's 13). Also Montenegro usually play friendlies against team they can beat (Northern Ireland, Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan.

bonerm

Is there anywhere one can get an actual breakdown of a countries current FIFA score?

eg Ireland are on '681' based on results from the last four years but it'd be nice to know how exactly how much each of the 50 or so games in the last 4 years contributed to that total (eg I'd like to know if the draw v Montenegro (H) 2009 was currently worth 12 points for example.

Is there anywhere to get that info?

everdead.ie

Bukman13 wrote: »

Ireland's ranking is so poor because the FAI tend to organise too many friendlies. The problem with friendlies is they are only worth very few points but add to the total number of games played.

Ireland have played 13 games (friendlies and competitive combined) in the last 12 months. We have accumulated about 5000 points in those 13 games which gives us an average of 385.

If we excluded the friendlies against Argentina, Norway, and Uruguay, games in which we got 0 points our yearly average would rise to 500 points (5000/10). Leaving our overall ranking points at about 870 (over the past 4years) which puts us comfortably in pot 2.

In fact had the FAI scrapped just one of those 3 games we would have probably scrapped into pot 2 with approx 784 points.

The reason for Montenegro's high ranking is because they tend to play very few friendlies, they only played 8 games in the last 12 months, so their total points accumulated is only divided by 8 (compared to Ireland's 13). Also Montenegro usually play friendlies against team they can beat (Northern Ireland, Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan.

The problem is that the FAI is trying to bring in good teams so they can get as many bums on seats as possible to pay for the Aviva. But it's having a detrimental effect on our world ranking. It could be very possible to manage our ranking much better by picking weaker teams to play against.

bonerm wrote: »

Is there anywhere one can get an actual breakdown of a countries current FIFA score?

eg Ireland are on '681' based on results from the last four years but it'd be nice to know how exactly how much each of the 50 or so games in the last 4 years contributed to that total (eg I'd like to know if the draw v Montenegro (H) 2009 was currently worth 12 points for example.

Is there anywhere to get that info?

No I have been looking for this today but so far I haven't turned anything up.

bonerm

everdead.ie wrote: »

The problem is that the FAI is trying to bring in good teams so they can get as many bums on seats as possible to pay for the Aviva. But it's having a detrimental effect on our world ranking. It could be very possible to manage our ranking much better by picking weaker teams to play against.

It would be ironic if the FAI's chasing of the almighty Euro was actually harming our chances our chances of qualifying for a finals which in itself is a big payday and a chance to play for bonus ranking points. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they didn't care/realise.

Bukman13

bonerm wrote: »

Is there anywhere one can get an actual breakdown of a countries current FIFA score?

eg Ireland are on '681' based on results from the last four years but it'd be nice to know how exactly how much each of the 50 or so games in the last 4 years contributed to that total (eg I'd like to know if the draw v Montenegro (H) 2009 was currently worth 12 points for example.

Is there anywhere to get that info?

The info is all on the Fifa site but its tedious work.

For example the Montenegro game (H) 2009.

Montenegro where Ranked 89 the month before so the math is

1(result) * 2.5 (Qualifier) * 1 (confederation) * 1.11 (opponent strenght) * 100
=
277.5

Ireland played 10 games that year so 277.5 /10 = 27.75

12-24months ago = 50%

27.75* 0.5 = 13.85.

I assuming you worked it out the same way but using May as the last updated month and not June.

bonerm

Bukman13 wrote: »

I assuming you worked it out the same way but using May as the last updated month and not June.

Haha, no. '12' was just a wild guess on my part.

Would be nice if they could present the data. It'd be easy enough for them to do considering they're already the ones making the calculations.

Bukman13

bonerm wrote: »

Haha, no. '12' was just a wild guess on my part.

Would be nice if they could present the data. It'd be easy enough for them to do considering they're already the ones making the calculations.

You would think so. The fifa's ranking system is a joke and displaying it like that would make everyone realise how terrible it actually is.

At least UEFA have taken friendlies out of their ranking system, only problem is they can only use it for UEFA competitions.

tolosenc

Elo rankings. Srsly, FIFA...

OhNoYouDidn't

bonerm wrote: »

It would be ironic if the FAI's chasing of the almighty Euro was actually harming our chances our chances of qualifying for a finals which in itself is a big payday and a chance to play for bonus ranking points. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they didn't care/realise.

So the Aviva will just pay for itself?

tolosenc

No, he's saying that if we cut down on the friendlies (with 20k people at them), we could manage our ranking in order to be better seeded, thus giving us a better chance of qualifying for major tournaments, which is probably more lucrative.

Michael Collins

bonerm wrote: »

It would be ironic if the FAI's chasing of the almighty Euro was actually harming our chances our chances of qualifying for a finals which in itself is a big payday and a chance to play for bonus ranking points. Wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they didn't care/realise.

Wouldn't be the first time. A little known fact is that Ireland nearly qualified for the 1966 World Cup in England. We had played two games against Spain (who were the only other team in our group!) in 1965, we beat them at home and they beat us in Spain. There was no "away goals" rule back then so it came to a third game playoff, in a neutral venue.

Naturally all the Irish fans wanted England as the neutral venue given the high numbers of Irish there, but Spain wanted Portugal - for the same reasons.

Suffice it to say the FAI agreed on Paris, on the condition they got the gate money for the game! Spain won.

Is that showing a lack of confidence in your team or what!?

Source: The Team that Jack Built by Paul Rowan.