Cattle Dealers?

Jamesleacy501

What does everyone think of cattle dealers?

Anybody have any stories about them?

How do they work?

I have heard a few things of how they work but if you ask me.. what they do isnt really right

Swinefluproof

They're the spawn of Satan himself!!!

Might be a case of a few bad apples rotting the whole barrel but I don't think I know any good apples personally.

If you don't agree with how they work then try not to use them!

bob charles

Its a person who can buy a product of one person and find another person to sell it on at a higher price. Jasus how many people in society earn their living doing the exact same and no one ever complains. Seems on this forum everyone seems to have a problem with dealers/buyers. If these lads were not at the mart just imagine where prices would be. On any given day the large buyers/dealer are buying 70% of the stock at a guess usually very close to the real market value either above or below. Some will say about having mates bidding etc but a good auctioneer will take bids off the wall anyway to get the animal close to the market value. Like in any profession there are good eggs and bad eggs and taring everyone with the one brush is a little stupid. BTW I only buy animals for myself.

bob charles

Its a person who can buy a product of one person and find another person to sell it on at a higher price. how many people in society earn their living doing the exact same and no one ever complains (ie shopkeeper,brokers etc). Seems on this forum everyone seems to have a problem with dealers/buyers. If these lads were not at the mart just imagine where prices would be. On any given day the large buyers/dealer are buying 70% of the stock at a guess usually very close to the real market value either above or below. Some will say about having mates bidding etc but a good auctioneer will take bids off the wall anyway to get the animal close to the market value. Like in any profession there are good eggs and bad eggs and taring everyone with the one brush is a little stupid. BTW I only buy animals for myself.

LostCovey

Swinefluproof wrote: »

They're the spawn of Satan himself!!!

Might be a case of a few bad apples rotting the whole barrel but I don't think I know any good apples personally.

If you don't agree with how they work then try not to use them!

Unfortunately they are the life of trade, as they will buy when no-one else is buying, in the perpetual hope of making a buck off someone. They do put a bottom under the trade if you have to sell. Mind you if you see animal after animal falling to them, you know you are not getting what you should be getting.....

If you are going to eradicate dealers, you would have to eradicate marts - not as mad an idea as it sounds, some countries function fine without them.

Lot easier to control disease, lot harder to value cattle.

Swings, roundabouts.

LC

Bizzum

The electronic board was a great introduction in the marts, at a glance you could see the owner, age, status etc of the animal in the ring and the dealers were not able to hide behind a lot number.
I have no real problem with cattle dealers per se, everyone's entitled to make a living. I rarely buy their cattle though, you need to be wide awake at the sales ring. Education aint cheap there.
The world would be a poorer place if we all were the same though!

alderdeer

bob charles wrote: »

Its a person who can buy a product of one person and find another person to sell it on at a higher price. how many people in society earn their living doing the exact same and no one ever complains (ie shopkeeper,brokers etc). Seems on this forum everyone seems to have a problem with dealers/buyers. If these lads were not at the mart just imagine where prices would be. On any given day the large buyers/dealer are buying 70% of the stock at a guess usually very close to the real market value either above or below. Some will say about having mates bidding etc but a good auctioneer will take bids off the wall anyway to get the animal close to the market value. Like in any profession there are good eggs and bad eggs and taring everyone with the one brush is a little stupid. BTW I only buy animals for myself.

Id agree with ya 100% there bob id say there isnt a mart manager in da country that would like to see the dealers gone from da ringside, We all try and give as little as possible for stock when buying and to get the most when selling them so tho more customers around a ring the better, Theres a lot of Auctioneers that would rob ya far quicker than any dealer,

Swinefluproof

Swinefluproof wrote: »

They're the spawn of Satan himself!!!

That was a bit tongue in cheek by the way before i start something.


Almost every business needs a middle man and in cattle rearing that just happens to be the cattle dealer. In every other type of business it's the same and the original supplier always bitches that the middle man is making a killing. It's just a fact of life.

AFAIK in some parts of France the local CO-OP acts as the dealer on the understanding that everyone gets the same deal when it comes to selling their animals. Not really sure of the ins and outs of the whole thing though

Jamesleacy501

Right can somebody please explain how cattle dealers work coz im really confused about the whole thing

irishh_bob

Jamesleacy501 wrote: »

What does everyone think of cattle dealers?

Anybody have any stories about them?

How do they work?

I have heard a few things of how they work but if you ask me.. what they do isnt really right

all you need to know about cattle dealers is that they are inherently crooked and that for every ten of them , nine of them are from the county of monaghan

bob charles

Jamesleacy501 wrote: »

Right can somebody please explain how cattle dealers work coz im really confused about the whole thing

its fairly straight forward, buy from one person and hope to sell to someone else at a higher price.

Jamesleacy501

Yeah i know thats there business but how do they operate?

Like whats this about putting hands into the ring and waving? It means nobody is to bid against you or something?

And do they drive up the prices or something aswell?

Bogman Billy

irishh_bob wrote: »

all you need to know about cattle dealers is that they are inherently crooked and that for every ten of them , nine of them are from the county of monaghan

I take it that you like me have had bad experiences with the monaghanese?!

5live

irishh_bob wrote: »

all you need to know about cattle dealers is that they are inherently crooked and that for every ten of them , nine of them are from the county of monaghan

I would have to disagree with you on that, irishh bob. Their job is to make money, probably at the sellers or buyers expense. They do it well, without fear or favour, or else they wouldnt be in business.

On the other hand, i sell a lot to one particular dealer. Without him, i wouldnt have a farm. When the marts and banks wouldnt touch my old fella with a 40 foot barge pole, he brought 8 cows into the yard and a bunch of calves to put under them and a bull to put them in calf too. In return, he took all the bull calves and did the same for 2 years. In 3 years we owed him nothing and had a herd of 60 middling cows and a bunch of followers.

I still remember who stood up and was counted when we didnt have an a*se to our trousers.

Not all dealers are dirt!

But then he wasnt from monaghan:)

irishh_bob

5live wrote: »

I would have to disagree with you on that, irishh bob. Their job is to make money, probably at the sellers or buyers expense. They do it well, without fear or favour, or else they wouldnt be in business.

On the other hand, i sell a lot to one particular dealer. Without him, i wouldnt have a farm. When the marts and banks wouldnt touch my old fella with a 40 foot barge pole, he brought 8 cows into the yard and a bunch of calves to put under them and a bull to put them in calf too. In return, he took all the bull calves and did the same for 2 years. In 3 years we owed him nothing and had a herd of 60 middling cows and a bunch of followers.

I still remember who stood up and was counted when we didnt have an a*se to our trousers.

Not all dealers are dirt!

But then he wasnt from monaghan:)

that individual sounds more like a good samaritan than a cattle dealer

5live

irishh_bob wrote: »

that individual sounds more like a good samaritan than a cattle dealer

Not a good samaritan, just recognised a mutually benefical transaction.

I just have to laugh at the generalisation that all dealers are scum. Like farmers, some are, some arent and most are in the middle.

I judge dealers, like farmers, sales reps and banks, on the dealings i have with them. If they are fair i will continue to do business with them. If they screw me over then byebye

ltec

Surely the main problem with dealers is diseases. Once you get diseases on the farm its very hard to get rid of them but constantly changing cattle has to be a recipe for disaster.
Is that why they keep shaking their hand to tell no one else to bid?
To watch dealers at the market you would think they own it.

Jamesleacy501

Something like that.. To claim the cattle when they come into the ring.. So no other dealers will bid for them or something im not sure!

Bizzum

A straight auctioneer running a tight ship usually keeps the messing to a minimum.
There are usually several little cliques hanging around the ring, some are dealers and some are farmers trying to keep each other sweet.
I never much cared who waved or threw the most shapes. If I like a lot, having examined it outside, I bid to what I'm willing to go to. I get some and miss some, but shur that's life!

who the fug

5live wrote: »

Not a good samaritan, just recognised a mutually benefical transaction.

I just have to laugh at the generalisation that all dealers are scum. Like farmers, some are, some arent and most are in the middle.

I judge dealers, like farmers, sales reps and banks, on the dealings i have with them. If they are fair i will continue to do business with them. If they screw me over then byebye

dealers lived on the margin when i was a lad and prayed on the elderly or the village idiots on borrowed money, also where quiet capable of arranging a cartel

Now days they be property developers

hobnail

Hey lads hoping somebody might be able to help me in relation to bloody cattle dealer.

I bought some calves from a dealer about 2 months ago and he has failed to give me the cards or to register the animals in my herd.

I want to complain to the department about him but am a bit worried about the hassle I'll bring on myself.

Anyone had similar problems or know how I would go about making a complaint?

Cheers

pakalasa

hobnail wrote: »

Hey lads hoping somebody might be able to help me in relation to bloody cattle dealer.

I bought some calves from a dealer about 2 months ago and he has failed to give me the cards or to register the animals in my herd.

I want to complain to the department about him but am a bit worried about the hassle I'll bring on myself.

Anyone had similar problems or know how I would go about making a complaint?

Cheers

What does he say exactly when you ask him for them?
If it was me, I'd ask around locally, people I trust, to see what kind of a guy he is.

hobnail

I've done the research and unfortunately he is a complete rogue.

He's not answering the phone to me and when I try him off other people's phones he just blabbers on about them being on the way and that he forgot to post them etc. etc.

lakill Farm

Time to land at his door. I had a rogue dealer from Roscommon and was only way, was to stand up to them.

WHat trouble will you be in if DOA does an inspection or he reports the calves stolen?

hobnail

I'm okay on the stolen end as I paid him by cheque and I got a copy of it from the bank. It shows the cheque with his name on it and the account he lodged it to was also in his name.

I also have a bundle of text messages from him on the phone telling me that he is posting cards, or dropping them to me and that he is sorry etc etc.

From the Department point of view I am a bit worried. Will they come down on me that I am only reporting it now or will they give me some credit for the 40 or so text messages I have sent to him pleading for the cards and for him to register them in my herd.

You know yourselves with the department. You can get penalised for stuff that out of your control

bob charles

hobnail wrote: »

I'm okay on the stolen end as I paid him by cheque and I got a copy of it from the bank. It shows the cheque with his name on it and the account he lodged it to was also in his name.

I also have a bundle of text messages from him on the phone telling me that he is posting cards, or dropping them to me and that he is sorry etc etc.

From the Department point of view I am a bit worried. Will they come down on me that I am only reporting it now or will they give me some credit for the 40 or so text messages I have sent to him pleading for the cards and for him to register them in my herd.

You know yourselves with the department. You can get penalised for stuff that out of your control

Cards are supposed to move with the animals full stop, also the permit has to be issued so the transfer is in the process. Cant see any reason only laziness for him not giving you the cards unless......... Maybe worth trying to see if they have an previous owner

flatout11

Bogman Billy wrote: »

I take it that you like me have had bad experiences with the monaghanese?!

ah the monaghanese !!!!! a rare breed of cattle men who like to keep life interesting by including something a bit dodgy in every deal!!!!
TBF great stockmen though!!!!

locky76

I sold a bull about two months ago and i checked my herd online last week only to discover that he hadn't transferred out of my herd correctly.
Unsure why it happened, i filled out the forms, posted them etc. so i rang the guy who bought him and i then rang the dept.
they were spot on and recognised neither of us were acting the maggot, i've sent off the forms to Clonakilty again and predated it so it should be sorted;)
I'd advise advising (threatening?) your man that you'll be contacting the dept if he doesn't sort it sharpish!

hobnail wrote: »

I'm okay on the stolen end as I paid him by cheque and I got a copy of it from the bank. It shows the cheque with his name on it and the account he lodged it to was also in his name.

I also have a bundle of text messages from him on the phone telling me that he is posting cards, or dropping them to me and that he is sorry etc etc.

From the Department point of view I am a bit worried. Will they come down on me that I am only reporting it now or will they give me some credit for the 40 or so text messages I have sent to him pleading for the cards and for him to register them in my herd.

You know yourselves with the department. You can get penalised for stuff that out of your control

Atilathehun

Seems Clare Marts are trialling a new bidding method, which might upset the "gang" around the ring.
Basically you register before the sale begins, and are given an electronic fob, which you can use to bid on an animal. Fob could be in your pocket. Nobody knows who is bidding except the auctioneer.
Opportunity for the usual suspects to gang up and drive the prices up on a given farmer buyer are gone.

bob charles

Atilathehun wrote: »

Opportunity for the usual suspects to gang up and drive the prices up on a given farmer buyer are gone.

I cant see the logic in so called dealers ganging up on a farmer and driving up the prices. High prices are what the primary producers want. I buyh allot of animals and will bid against whoever up to the point of the market price and to a point where I can make money from the animal. Cant see how I ganging up on a farrmer if I give more money than he can for say 5 animals in a row. Could you explain the logic. if anything I would expect people to be saying that the buyer would prefer the prices to be lower. as most dealing is done private

flatout11

bob charles wrote: »

I cant see the logic in so called dealers ganging up on a farmer and driving up the prices. High prices are what the primary producers want. I buyh allot of animals and will bid against whoever up to the point of the market price and to a point where I can make money from the animal. Cant see how I ganging up on a farrmer if I give more money than he can for say 5 animals in a row. Could you explain the logic. if anything I would expect people to be saying that the buyer would prefer the prices to be lower. as most dealing is done private

id agree... you bid to the price you want to give for an animal or on the other hand you dont sell if your not happy

The Real Elmer Fudd

Personally, i am from monaghan and have bought about 80% of my cattle for the last 4 or 5 year through a dealer, who is also from monaghan!! I have never had any problems and have never paid over the odds for an animal.

The system i work with the dealer is, I tell him how many animals i want and what i want in an animal, age breed weight etc and give him a price range to work with. He buys the cattle in a mart in my name and herd number and delivers them to my yard. I then forward on a cheque to the relevant Mart and they in turn forward the cards to me direct when they receive a cheque. When i have the required number of animals requested i pay the dealer so much per head for the service he has provided.

This works extremely well for me as i simply dont have the time to go to marts with a full time job and a young family. I feel i get good value for the animals i get as the dealer would be in at least 4 to 5 marts a week and has that spread to pick up animals that will thrieve well at a good price. He also takes his time until he finds the animals that fit my criteria and price, it may take him a couple of weeks coming with an animal or two every second day until he has delivered the number of animals requested. The Mart managers have no problem releasing the animals to the dealer without payment as they know he is there every week buying cattle and if they dont receive payment by the following weeks mart the animals bill will fall back to him plus they have the position of holding the cards until payment.

I have no doubt there are alot of rogue dealers out there, and i could name a few but if you do some research and find a dealer who is legit it works very well.

Tipp Man

The Real Elmer Fudd wrote: »

Personally, i am from monaghan and have bought about 80% of my cattle for the last 4 or 5 year through a dealer, who is also from monaghan!! I have never had any problems and have never paid over the odds for an animal.

The system i work with the dealer is, I tell him how many animals i want and what i want in an animal, age breed weight etc and give him a price range to work with. He buys the cattle in a mart in my name and herd number and delivers them to my yard. I then forward on a cheque to the relevant Mart and they in turn forward the cards to me direct when they receive a cheque. When i have the required number of animals requested i pay the dealer so much per head for the service he has provided.

This works extremely well for me as i simply dont have the time to go to marts with a full time job and a young family. I feel i get good value for the animals i get as the dealer would be in at least 4 to 5 marts a week and has that spread to pick up animals that will thrieve well at a good price. He also takes his time until he finds the animals that fit my criteria and price, it may take him a couple of weeks coming with an animal or two every second day until he has delivered the number of animals requested. The Mart managers have no problem releasing the animals to the dealer without payment as they know he is there every week buying cattle and if they dont receive payment by the following weeks mart the animals bill will fall back to him plus they have the position of holding the cards until payment.

I have no doubt there are alot of rogue dealers out there, and i could name a few but if you do some research and find a dealer who is legit it works very well.

Something dodgy about that

Your telling me that your "dealer" is allowed to take cattle from the mart without paying for them and without the cards?? Dodgy as f##k if you ask me

No animal should be leaving the mart without their card

The Real Elmer Fudd

Tell me whats dodgy about it?

All he is doing is bidding on animals on my behalf and delivering them to my door. In the majority of cases the animals are bought in local marts and i would drive there after work on the same day the animal was bought or the following day and pay the mart a cheque and receive the cards. Mean while the cattle are either still in the mart waiting on the dealer to deliver them or they have gone on ahead and are standing in my yard at home. The cards are checked against the ear tags and the animal for tag no and breed. the Mart docket also backs up tag no, breed and weight. id have a fair idea of the animals weight from looking at the animal to correspond with the docket and id be fairly confident that id know if the tag had been tamped with a few hours previous.

I know the the dealer in question for many years and knew him for years locally before i ever used him as a dealer and have no doubt the cattle i get through him are 100% correct and right. Ive been fatting heifers and bulls for the last 5 years for butcher & factory trade and have never had an issue with any animal i have bought through him, price weight quality of animal.

Tipp Man

The Real Elmer Fudd wrote: »

Tell me whats dodgy about it?

All he is doing is bidding on animals on my behalf and delivering them to my door. In the majority of cases the animals are bought in local marts and i would drive there after work on the same day the animal was bought or the following day and pay the mart a cheque and receive the cards. Mean while the cattle are either still in the mart waiting on the dealer to deliver them or they have gone on ahead and are standing in my yard at home. The cards are checked against the ear tags and the animal for tag no and breed. the Mart docket also backs up tag no, breed and weight. id have a fair idea of the animals weight from looking at the animal to correspond with the docket and id be fairly confident that id know if the tag had been tamped with a few hours previous.

I know the the dealer in question for many years and knew him for years locally before i ever used him as a dealer and have no doubt the cattle i get through him are 100% correct and right. Ive been fatting heifers and bulls for the last 5 years for butcher & factory trade and have never had an issue with any animal i have bought through him, price weight quality of animal.

Didn't mean your dealer is dodgy - i meant the mart practices

The cattle should not be leaving the mart without their cards, thats a given for any mart, or at least it should be. Now if you are getting credit from the mart then that's a different matter but cattle leaving the mar without cards or being paid for is a different story. I thought this kind of carry on had been stopped but it seems not

Kovu

Tipp Man wrote: »

Didn't mean your dealer is dodgy - i meant the mart practices

The cattle should not be leaving the mart without their cards, thats a given for any mart, or at least it should be. Now if you are getting credit from the mart then that's a different matter but cattle leaving the mar without cards or being paid for is a different story. I thought this kind of carry on had been stopped but it seems not

It is done and practised in every mart I have worked in. It is a safety measure to guarantee payment. If we don't trust some wo/man buying (because all marts will pass on any dodgy dealings with customers) then the cards/sometimes cattle are held until payment. Most customers that have cards held on them know this and bring cash. The animals are checked on the chutes off the pass out which includes all necessary information on it. Times have changed and credit limits have changed. I have never seen a falseified blue card and the animal cannot be sold on without it. True, theres always the possibility of it being privately slaughtered but I have never heard of such a case.

Tipp Man

Karen112 wrote: »

It is done and practised in every mart I have worked in. It is a safety measure to guarantee payment. If we don't trust some wo/man buying (because all marts will pass on any dodgy dealings with customers) then the cards/sometimes cattle are held until payment. Most customers that have cards held on them know this and bring cash. The animals are checked on the chutes off the pass out which includes all necessary information on it. Times have changed and credit limits have changed. I have never seen a falseified blue card and the animal cannot be sold on without it. True, theres always the possibility of it being privately slaughtered but I have never heard of such a case.

That really is bad practice. If the blue cards were so bullet proof then cattle rustling would be a thing of the past - it ain't.

Whats to stop a dealer taking the cattle north without the cards and denying ever buying them? After all the cattle were bought in somebody else's name so he owes the mart nothing. The buyer owes the mart money for cattle he'll never see and the mart owes the seller and all it has to pay is the blue cards. There is zero comeback for the buyer and the mart in this scenario which this practice could facilitate

Kovu

Tipp Man wrote: »

That really is bad practice. If the blue cards were so bullet proof then cattle rustling would be a thing of the past - it ain't.

Whats to stop a dealer taking the cattle north without the cards and denying ever buying them? After all the cattle were bought in somebody else's name so he owes the mart nothing. The buyer owes the mart money for cattle he'll never see and the mart owes the seller and all it has to pay is the blue cards. There is zero comeback for the buyer and the mart in this scenario which this practice could facilitate

I understand where you're coming from but if it wasn't practiced in marts then we would lose buyers, cattle prices would fall and then you'd be back complaining. Some lorrymen take cards, others don't. It's to do with them as to how they wish to deal in cattle. We simply act as 'middlemen' in marts, I know that blue cards should be transported with cattle at all times but sometimes it's simply not possible. A man going with his lorry full of cattle may not wish to have the responsibility of taking the cards, it does not mean we act irresponsibly and let them out without being read on the chutes. The buyer may be in twelve hours later and want his cards when he pays. Rather then telling him they are off with the lorryman. It's each to their own. Some men like the cards sent, others don't as they trust the buyer.
You should see the amount of unsold cards that builds up......shows how much some sellers respect their cards too:rolleyes:
Anyway, this is getting off topic and I will say no more.

The Real Elmer Fudd

Tipp man you do have a valid point and i do agree with you. Ideally the cards would travel with the animals but we dont live in an ideal world.

You have to remember the dealer also has a reputation and trust to up hold with the mart otherwise he/she would not be allowed operate from there again, So if they did pull a stunt like the one you mentioned they would have burnt their bridges in that particular mart and it wouldnt be worth it to them in the long run.

Alot of posters on this thread where portraying a very bad picture of dealers in general and i was merely trying to show that they are not all bad. In my case i simply couldnt have operated on the level of farming that i have done over the past 5 years and earned the money that i have done, without the service that this dealer provides for me as i simply dont have the time to go to mart due to the time contraints of my day job.

PS Karen i have kept a few heifers and put them in calf this year to start the foundation of what i hope will be a nice suckler herd and that red and white heifer you have pictures up of would make a nice addition to it but ive seen that she already has a list of fans ahead of me

irishh_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

Something dodgy about that

Your telling me that your "dealer" is allowed to take cattle from the mart without paying for them and without the cards?? Dodgy as f##k if you ask me

No animal should be leaving the mart without their card

monaghan is different , different attitude to rules and regulations entirely

Kovu

The Real Elmer Fudd wrote: »

Tipp man you do have a valid point and i do agree with you. Ideally the cards would travel with the animals but we dont live in an ideal world.

You have to remember the dealer also has a reputation and trust to up hold with the mart otherwise he/she would not be allowed operate from there again, So if they did pull a stunt like the one you mentioned they would have burnt their bridges in that particular mart and it wouldnt be worth it to them in the long run.

Alot of posters on this thread where portraying a very bad picture of dealers in general and i was merely trying to show that they are not all bad. In my case i simply couldnt have operated on the level of farming that i have done over the past 5 years and earned the money that i have done, without the service that this dealer provides for me as i simply dont have the time to go to mart due to the time contraints of my day job.

PS Karen i have kept a few heifers and put them in calf this year to start the foundation of what i hope will be a nice suckler herd and that red and white heifer you have pictures up of would make a nice addition to it but ive seen that she already has a list of fans ahead of me

Will nout add more to this thread bar saying got her at 800, not quite a deal but I shall see next year at fatstock if she goes bigger then what we aim for (550-600 at biggest breeding stage.)!

Bactidiaryl

what happens or what can happen if the cards are held in a mart and the cattle for what ever reason are not paid for. it all gets a bit messy dont it as they have left the last holding and are unpaid for on a new one.

Kovu

They can be seized, as once an invoice is printed, then a sales agreement takes place i.e. 'I am giving you these cattle, upon confirment of your herd number and payment will be received in due time.' (with respect to 'in due time' not being abused) So once we have a need to hit our records, we can prove the man was at the counter with our CCTV, so we have a right to get the animals back or value thereof.
It is only very occasionally that I have seen marts hold cattle from a buyer along with cards, as they have the auctioneers well reined in with dodgy men.

Bactidiaryl

very good k. and tell us this, have you had any experience of agents or dealers getting credit and leaving debts after them and the cattle slaughtered gone. this is a worry for many marts as a lot of these guys who buy animals for slaughter take a lot of stock and demand a couple of months credit.its hard for a mart manager to refuse.

Kovu

Bactidiaryl wrote: »

very good k. and tell us this, have you had any experience of agents or dealers getting credit and leaving debts after them and the cattle slaughtered gone. this is a worry for many marts as a lot of these guys who buy animals for slaughter take a lot of stock and demand a couple of months credit.its hard for a mart manager to refuse.

I will not comment on that, as it is more of a private thing then a boards issue.
But you do get used to being sweared at for telling an auctioneer to refuse bids.

Tora Bora

flatout11 wrote: »

id agree... you bid to the price you want to give for an animal or on the other hand you dont sell if your not happy

A farmer buying, is pushed all the way to the top price level for a given animal.
Without the farmer bidding, that particular animal, will not go as high, because of cooperation between the dealers. This ones mine, you can have the next one kind of cooperation.

Bactidiaryl

Tora Bora wrote: »

A farmer buying, is pushed all the way to the top price level for a given animal.
Without the farmer bidding, that particular animal, will not go as high, because of cooperation between the dealers. This ones mine, you can have the next one kind of cooperation.

I have come across that practice quite a few times tora bora. and then when you talk to some people about buying animals some might say you should buy them through a dealer,they will get them cheaper and that is just playing into their hands. what i have done myself when purchasing against dealers who are trying to outprice me is to pull out high up and leave them with costly animals.they soon get the message and a fair market price is recieved to seller and not a few high prices and the rest low.i know this does not happen all the time but a bit when theres not many farmer buyers.

bob charles

First off, I probably fit into the guys most on here are calling dealers but in actual fact most regulars around the rings are finishers buying for themselves which I am

Bactidiaryl wrote: »

these guys who buy animals for slaughter take a lot of stock and demand a couple of months credit.

Please tell where a couple of months credit is available, most are operating 7 days

Tora Bora wrote: »

A farmer buying, is pushed all the way to the top price level for a given animal.
Without the farmer bidding, that particular animal, will not go as high, because of cooperation between the dealers. This ones mine, you can have the next one kind of cooperation.

And these guys around the ring never bid against each other, come off it. most of the animals sold last week in the South are wrong and most of mine will be no use but I have to keep replacing stock. Actually most of the animals sold in the last month are of little use.

Bactidiaryl wrote: »

Iwhat i have done myself when purchasing against dealers who are trying to outprice me is to pull out high up and leave them with costly animals.they soon get the message and a fair market price is recieved to seller and not a few high prices and the rest low.

The regular cattle buyers are in competition around the ring aswell, the regular buyers will only keep bidding up to a price which they think they will make money irrespective of who is bidding against them. I will nearly always take out a farmer bidder bidding beef unless they want the animal for breeding in that case I go as far as fat price and then let whoever wants to bid after that work away. what happens when these expensive animals you are trying to leave up and the hammer falls on you

I remember John Shirley had a piece a couple of years ago in the indo where he said he would take on the regulars, after him buying a load they all lost money when slaughtered, seems a fair market to me

johngalway

Tora Bora wrote: »

because of cooperation between the dealers.

Don't know about cattle but that is certainly true of sheep dealers in a particular mart. Can see them before the sale starts, like anyone else walking thought the pens, handling stock. Nothing wrong with that. But before the sale starts if you know about it, you'll find them in some corner gathered together saying, this pen is mine, that pen is yours etc. Well known fact for donkeys years that it goes on. During the years of depressed sheep prices the only time there'd be a lift is when some lad with an arctic would arrive from "outside". But, by the next week you'd see the usual suspects try to cosy up to the new buyer. Some times it'd work, some times not. The problem with the "outside" buyers was always that they were only going to be there for a few marts anyway.

bob charles

A the top of this page it was being said that dealers were taking the prices too high for farmers to compete, now you lads are saying they are keeping the prices too low, which is it so you can all sing off the same hymn sheet:D:D

johngalway

bob charles wrote: »

A the top of this page it was being said that dealers were taking the prices too high for farmers to compete, now you lads are saying they are keeping the prices too low, which is it so you can all sing off the same hymn sheet:D:D

If that refers to my post Bob, you'd want to go back and read it a second time