Wibbly Wobbly Timey Migraine [Spoilers up to A Good Man Goes to War]

ríomhaire

So the mid-season finale confirmed something I had suspected since the end of season five; that nothing in season five actually happened and Amy and Rory had never been in the TARDIS and those adventures only existed in their memories. The Doctor specifically states that in the new reality the first time Rory and Amy were in the TARDIS was their wedding ni-oops.

So where the hell did the space Spitfires come from?!

pixelburp

No he doesn't say that; he was trying to work out the times they share a trip on the TARDIS; Rory wasn't no-board that long when he was killed off. And they did spend their wedding night on the TARDIS.

mach1982

I just watch it again , and ríomhaire is right he dose say this new reality. The Tardis. doesn't just travel in time is can also travel in dimensions , ie different realities.

Just a note , just before River dies the 10th Doctor tell her time can be rewitten, and she tells in "Don't you dare" but he did rewrite time . So is this River the one that the 10th doctor will meet. As if there a infinite number of realities were ever outcome is possible or because she a Time Lady is she immune to rewriting of time ?

nicowa

I've thought about this a bit and - even before you brought up the spitfires which I hadn't thought of - I figured that the Doctor would want to go back and redo (as it were) some of the adventures that have now never happened. I'm not sure how many of them would still be valid (as in, not caused by the crack in the universe directly or indirectly) but I would have thought he would want another crack at stopping the Daleks and at saving everyone in Hungry Earth and Cold Blood.

We know from side comments that we only see the tip of the ice berg of the Doctor's escapades (we see a moment of the unseen adventures when the Doctor is travelling back in his own time stream in last seasons finale). So why not have these *repeats* happen after the Christmas episode-

And now I'm thinking of the time line (they do suggest that Amy got pregant on her wedding night...).

I give up.

mach1982

Just watched the the part in" the Impossible astronaut" , where River tells Rory about the her and the Doctors meeting in reverse order. She says the first time she meet the Doctor was when she was a impressionaly little girl ( not baby, ), she said he drop out of the sky and he knew everything about her, i.e. her real name who her parents were. Therefore if we assume the child in suit is a young River, she must have meet him before.

I still think the Silence are not as bad we are lead to to believe , they seem to know what is going on , why else would the capture Amy, (the doctor says that the Flesh been around before America) , to find weather or not she is a flesh avatar .

In "a good man goes to war" River says the Doctor will protect her, so Amy has nothing to worry about . Maybe the Silence are protecting young River and the suit in kind of like a shield, so the Clerics and the Eye patch Lady can't track her due to her time Lord DNA.Remember the Doctor say he knows were Melody is, it has to be the The Gamma Forest as River knows a lot about the forest.

Killer_banana

mach1982 wrote: »

to find weather or not she is a flesh avatar .

They said that Amy was going to help bring the Silence or make Silence fall or something along those lines. So I think they might have more plans in regards to her rather than just finding out if she was Flesh or not. That said, before we found out that it was Ganger Amy, that scene made it seem like there was something unusual or special about Amy as a person but now I'm thinking it could be they needed a Ganger or just a sample of Flesh to carry out whatever there plan was.

mach1982

Killer_banana wrote: »

They said that Amy was going to help bring the Silence or make Silence fall or something along those lines. .

Melody/River?

ríomhaire

mach1982 wrote: »

I still think the Silence are not as bad we are lead to to believe , they seem to know what is going on , why else would the capture Amy, (the doctor says that the Flesh been around before America) , to find weather or not she is a flesh avatar .

Remember when she disappeared from the orphanage and they found the chip that was embedded in her hand lying on the ground? Why would they kidnap someone and rip a chip out of her hand with no blood or injury resulting? She wasn't kidnapped, someone just decommissioned her ganger and when they find Amy again the Silence have their hands on the new one.

If River was the young girl from The Impossible Astronaut, how come she didn't realise as much when her and the doctor were examining the suit and stuff? I think she IS the little girl, anything else is getting a little too convoluted, but it's a bit confusing. I've full faith in Moffat making it all work tho!

ríomhaire

pixelburp wrote: »

No he doesn't say that; he was trying to work out the times they share a trip on the TARDIS; Rory wasn't no-board that long when he was killed off. And they did spend their wedding night on the TARDIS.

Quite frankly: If the events of the previous season have happened, why is Rory not dead?

pixelburp

ríomhaire wrote: »

Quite frankly: If the events of the previous season have happened, why is Rory not dead?

I presumed the same reason the Doctor is still alive - the power of Amy's memories brought him back. Besides, iIf we accept that season 5 never happened, then Moffat is guilty of the laziest, most horrible script-writing mechanic on TV - the "It was all a dream" trope. I refuse to accept Moffat would do this

BaconZombie

http://twitter.com/#!/steven_moffat/status/80157148893556736

ríomhaire wrote: »

Quite frankly: If the events of the previous season have happened, why is Rory not dead?

ríomhaire

Aaaaarrrrrgggghhhhh MY BRAAAAIN

popebenny16

BaconZombie wrote: »

http://twitter.com/#!/steven_moffat/status/80157148893556736

that is in line with that he said after the Pandorica - that it had the added bonus of him being able to wish away continuity errors. He also said recently that Amy was in really in the Tardis just up to slightly before the Impossible Astronaut. So it really was Amy in the christmas special for example.

The Mad Hatter

popebenny16 wrote: »

that is in line with that he said after the Pandorica - that it had the added bonus of him being able to wish away continuity errors. He also said recently that Amy was in really in the Tardis just up to slightly before the Impossible Astronaut. So it really was Amy in the christmas special for example.

Yep, that's when Melody Pond was conceived. Well, presumably just before the main story.

Cyndaquil

I thought the dialogue about their wedding night being Amy and Rory's first time together in the Tardis was there merely to confirm (subtly) to the viewer that Melody was definitely conceived in the Tardis more than anything else.

As for River's "don't you there" comment to Ten I read this as more her simply trying to stop him from sacrificing himself rather than it having much long term siginificence.

Stark

pixelburp wrote: »

Besides, iIf we accept that season 5 never happened, then Moffat is guilty of the laziest, most horrible script-writing mechanic on TV - the "It was all a dream" trope. I refuse to accept Moffat would do this

I'd believe it. Most of Moffat's stories have been clever and well written but he's also as guilty of lazy writing as the best of them. "Ah crap, this story has to be submitted for tomorrow and I still haven't figured out how the Doctor is going to get Rory's head back from the Mystic Megs before his body succumbs to gangrene. Okay, wibbly, wobbly, timey, wimey, Rory from the future comes visiting with Rory's head*. Story done. The nerds are going to fap furiously over this one".

*The manner in which Rory returns with his own head will not accidentally match the awesomeness of when they found Data's head in the 19th century.

Penn

The way I see it, Series 5 never happened, but because Amy brought The Doctor back, everyone remembers what happened in series 5, including people like Churchill and Craig.

So same with Rory. He was plastic for 2000 years, but now he only remembers being plastic.

Besides, Rory had been erased from history, so if he had gotten Amy pregnant before that, she would no longer have been pregnant because Rory never existed. So the earliest time that Rory and Amy could have conceived Melody was on the Tardis on their wedding night, because the universe was reset on their wedding day and they didn't spend that night together.

ríomhaire

Barrington wrote: »

Besides, Rory had been erased from history, so if he had gotten Amy pregnant before that, she would no longer have been pregnant because Rory never existed. So the earliest time that Rory and Amy could have conceived Melody was on the Tardis on their wedding night, because the universe was reset on their wedding day and they didn't spend that night together.

Amy and River both had their parents erased from history but it didn't remove them. Rory getting erased would not have removed Amy's pregnancy if she had been pregnant.

Penn

rÃ*omhaire wrote: »

Barrington wrote: »

Besides, Rory had been erased from history, so if he had gotten Amy pregnant before that, she would no longer have been pregnant because Rory never existed. So the earliest time that Rory and Amy could have conceived Melody was on the Tardis on their wedding night, because the universe was reset on their wedding day and they didn't spend that night together.

Amy and River both had their parents erased from history but it didn't remove them. Rory getting erased would not have removed Amy's pregnancy if she had been pregnant.

Good point.

Still, what happened in Season 5 technically didn't happen, just everyone remembers it. Or at least that's how I see it.

Cyndaquil

Barrington wrote: »

Good point.

Still, what happened in Season 5 technically didn't happen, just everyone remembers it. Or at least that's how I see it.

Sort of like 10, Martha, Jack and a few others remembering "the year that never was" in "Last of The Timelords", (with Amy, Rory, River and the Doc remembering everything)? My understanding of season 5 was that everything up to the Alliance arriving at the Pandorica happened, (the Alliance was later sent back to their respective points in time). As soon as Amy remembered The Doctor all of his adventures were "restored" to the timeline. Arrrggh!

Personally I found last years finale a bit wishy-washy as far as its resolution was concerned. I think though SM will take a bit more serious approach to resolving The Doctor's supposed "death". Although the promo suggests he dies in a different way (with sonic screwdriver clutched in hand). Not that I read too much into promos. Either way I think it's safe to say that The Doctor won't really be "dead" forever.

BaconZombie

Not sure where the best place to post this, so here will do:



Looks like Rory and River from the start of "A Good Man Goes to War", also notice the sunflowers!!!!

Killer_banana

What confuses me is it seemed River remembered the Doctor before Amy did but if that was the case then why didn't he come into existence when River remembered him? Or was River traveling from a time when Amy had already remembered the Doctor into existence? Dear God wibbly wobbly timey wimey-ness is annoyingly confusing. It's worse than trying to udnerstand the Superhoodie plot in Misfits.