Motor Tax 10% not paying

HellFireClub

There is then the other small little matter of those driving light commercial vehicles/vans, who last year are told that they would have to sign a declaration to the effect that the vehicle is NEVER used for personal use, in order to get road tax for the vehicle.

I'm in the process of acquiring a small van for my business, I will not be signing any such declaration, I will not be taxing the vehicle on this basis, because as far as I can see it, I have a constitutional right to use a vehicle of a company that I own, for personal use if I see fit, such as travel to and from work.

I'm no longer prepared to run with stupid PS makey uppy petty rules that have distroyed this country so seize my van and I'll take my chances in court.

keithclancy

HellFireClub wrote: »

There is then the other small little matter of those driving light commercial vehicles/vans, who last year are told that they would have to sign a declaration to the effect that the vehicle is NEVER used for personal use, in order to get road tax for the vehicle.

I'm in the process of acquiring a small van for my business, I will not be signing any such declaration, I will not be taxing the vehicle on this basis, because as far as I can see it, I have a constitutional right to use a vehicle of a company that I own, for personal use if I see fit, such as travel to and from work.

I'm no longer prepared to run with stupid PS makey uppy petty rules that have distroyed this country so seize my van and I'll take my chances in court.

Just buy yourself a crew cab hilux

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

I'm merely pointing out that if you want the 'luxury' of a car for the weekend it will cost you as low as 57 euros.

Having a car sitting in the driveway paying tax, insurance, depreciation, maintenence would cost you allot more if your not using it frequently.

A Car is a luxury, if you cannot afford to pay something to legally to keep it on the road, you cannot afford to run the car.

Get your shopping delivered, or cycle/walk to the shop.

lots of good 10 year old cars out there that are long paid for tax and insurance would certainly not add up to 57 euro a week!!!

Nothing wrong with making it possible to pay as you go for motor tax is there? It makes it more affordable for people in bad situations.

Its far better than making them out to be criminals jeez

HellFireClub

keithclancy wrote: »

Just buy yourself a crew cab hilux

Yeah if I had the $$$, which I don't as this place is bleeding everyone dry. But this is what is expected of you, go buy one car to get to and from work and then use your work vehicle for work only, or else basically lie on the form about your use of the vehicle, all so that the PS stoogie behind the desk in the tax office will have another little bit of paperwork for his/her precious little file.

I'll take my chances in court and show this sorry little backwater kip up for the place that it actually is...

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

lots of good 10 year old cars out there that are long paid for tax and insurance would certainly not add up to 57 euro a week!!!

Nothing wrong with making it possible to pay as you go for motor tax is there? It makes it more affordable for people in bad situations.

Its far better than making them out to be criminals jeez

Allot of people don't need a car 'every week' or 'every weekend' thats the point, I have friends who just rent a car for the weekend when they want to go on a trip, they don't own a car at all.

This is merely a suggestion, i.e. If I don't pay my Motor Tax and get a fine, then fair enough, I took the risk, I got the fine.

But to not pay, then complain when you get caught, is just silly.

If you introduced a pay as you go system then:
A. You would have a far higher amount of cars on the road
B. The only way to do that would be through fuel costs, then when these people that couldn't afford motor tax before got to the shop, they wouldn't be able to afford shopping as hauliers and delivery vehicles would be paying alot more and would have to pass this cost onto the customer via the retailer.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

Allot of people don't need a car 'every week' or 'every weekend' thats the point, I have friends who just rent a car for the weekend when they want to go on a trip, they don't own a car at all.

good for them, the reality is that:

10% of mortgages are in arrears
http://www.finfacts.ie/irishfinancenews/subCategories/article_1021736_printer.shtml

unemployment is 14.8%
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2011/0601/breaking24.html

There is alot of people in financial trouble, now you might be able to get away without a car in some cities but even in suburbs and then around the country side - where most people live, lets remember we are primarily a rural country - you cant lug the weekly shopping 3 miles from the nearest shop. Even 1 mile is too far.

If we just made it pay as you go we could solve alot of problems and not criminalise people who are already in a dire financial situation.

To be fair the people in mortgage arrears have bigger things to be worrying about and wont be too concerned with paying car tax.

recedite

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

Sure I'd love to buy a newer car and get the "cheap tax" but unfortunately I don't have that option and so my 06 2L diesel (with 170,000km and rising rapidly!) will have to last me that bit longer - despite the increasing cost of servicing it.. never mind the high tax it draws vs a "cheap" new 520D.

I know the feeling; if you had enough cash to buy a new car, you could have availed of the scrappage scheme.
It's like the SSA savings scheme a few years ago; the govt. gave you free money- but first you had to put a few quid in the bank to prove you didn't really need it.

HellFireClub

As another poster said, 164 Euro to tax a 1.9 TDi Passat for 3 months, an absolute RIP OFF that is only going to pay for to the public waste that this country is up against, only a mug would pay this...

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

keithclancy

HellFireClub wrote: »

As another poster said, 164 Euro to tax a 1.9 TDi Passat for 3 months, an absolute RIP OFF that is only going to pay for to the public waste that this country is up against, only a mug would pay this...

https://www.motortax.ie/OMT/motortaxinfotype.do

I don't feel for you one little bit.

http://www.belastingdienst.nl/reken/motorrijtuigenbelasting/

Type: Personal Car

Province : Noord Holland

What fuel do you drive with : Diesel

Weight Class of Vehicle: 1351 - 1450 (Passat 1.9 TDI Weight Class is 1369kg)

Per Quarter: 342 Euros
Per Year: 1356 Euros

Everything is Relative .. Owning a Vehicle in Ireland is dirt cheap compared to here.

HellFireClub

keithclancy wrote: »

I don't feel for you one little bit.

http://www.belastingdienst.nl/reken/motorrijtuigenbelasting/

Type: Personal Car

Province : Noord Holland

What fuel do you drive with : Diesel

Weight Class of Vehicle: 1351 - 1450 (Passat 1.9 TDI Weight Class is 1369kg)

Per Quarter: 342 Euros
Per Year: 1356 Euros

Everything is Relative .. Owning a Vehicle in Ireland is dirt cheap compared to here.

This is the problem with Ireland. Once you show someone something, they will immediately run off and try to find something ten times more messed up and outrageous as what you have just shown them and use that as some sort of a comparative basis for a discussion.

In Holland, if I get seriously sick I'm not playing Russian Roulette with my life and my chances of survival and the Health Service, so there is another side to the national balance sheet and public policy in Holland where the money collected throgh tax is actually used to do something positive as opposed to completely p*ssed all over the place as is the case here in Ireland.

Liam Byrne

keithclancy wrote: »

I'm merely pointing out that if you want the 'luxury' of a car for the weekend it will cost you as low as 57 euros.

Having a car sitting in the driveway paying tax, insurance, depreciation, maintenence would cost you allot more if your not using it frequently.

A Car is a luxury, if you cannot afford to pay something to legally to keep it on the road, you cannot afford to run the car.

Get your shopping delivered, or cycle/walk to the shop.

"as low as €57" ???? Every weekend ?

That's what - €3,000 a year ?

A paid-for car costs you almost nothing once the final loan payment has been made.....maybe new tyres every 2 years, and maybe a few running repairs.

So let's say €200 a year for those.

Then insurance = say €500
Road tax a ridiculous €333

So you're then comparing under €1,000 with €3,000 while simultaneously ignoring the flexibility available from having the car available for the other 5 days a week - a practical essential in Ireland given the lack of public transport.

There is no comparison.

Even allowing for a newer car with an outstanding loan of €200 a month you're still barely passing the €3,000 mark in total for having your own car.

keithclancy

HellFireClub wrote: »

This is the problem with Ireland. Once you show someone something, they will immediately run off and try to find something ten times more messed up and outrageous as what you have just shown them and use that as some sort of a comparative basis for a discussion.

In Holland, if I get seriously sick I'm not playing Russian Roulette with my life and my chances of survival and the Health Service, so there is another side to the national balance sheet and public policy in Holland where the money collected throgh tax is actually used to do something positive as opposed to completely p*ssed all over the place as is the case here in Ireland.

Nope.. I didn't run off anywhere, I get the bill in the post every quarter :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

So whats wrong with this picture

• Netherlands - 402 people per km^2 - #30 in world
• Ireland - 63 people per km^2 - #146 in world
• USA - 32 people per km^2 - #179 in world (caveat: Alaska is one big empty place take it away and density be closer to Ireland)

Why are we being compared to one of the worlds most densely populated countries (with top notch public transport!) for motoring expenses?

keithclancy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

"as low as €57" ???? Every weekend ?

That's what - €3,000 a year ?

I never said every weekend, you said that, who needs a car every weekend ?

If you need a car every weekend then your doing something wrong, people are paying a premium to live in commuter towns/cities, should they get a rent subsidy if people in the country pay less on housing and dont pay their motor tax ?

A paid-for car costs you almost nothing once the final loan payment has been made.....maybe new tyres every 2 years, and maybe a few running repairs.

Right, obviously you've never looked at total cost of ownership

Depreciation
Motor Tax
Servicing (120/ service if I do it myself, required at least every year)
Incidentals (repairs etc, Tyres)
Major Service Parts - Timing Belt, Water Pump, Clutch, Gearbox, Catalytic Convertor, Glow Plugs.

And finally the risk that if it gets stolen/wrecked/keyed/crashed then that all costs money as well.

Its a well known fact a car is a money hole, if you didn't know this before you bought one you didn't really think about it properly

I've never even brought finance into the equation because I haven't financed.

So let's say €200 a year for those.

Then insurance = say €500
Road tax a ridiculous €333

So you're then comparing under €1,000 with €3,000 while simultaneously ignoring the flexibility available from having the car available for the other 5 days a week - a practical essential in Ireland given the lack of public transport.

Ahhh ... there we go, flexibility, i.e. convenience.
Its a luxury that you cannot afford.

Even allowing for a newer car with an outstanding loan of €200 a month you're still barely passing the €3,000 mark in total for having your own car.

Your mentality amazes me that you think a car should have a loan attached to it.

HellFireClub

keithclancy wrote: »

Nope.. I didn't run off anywhere, I get the bill in the post every quarter :rolleyes:

You can still probably pay it though. That's not the case with a lot of people over here who are bled fúcking dry every month with hugely excessive utility bills that are only hugely excessive because they incorporate huge institutional waste and inefficiences.

keithclancy

HellFireClub wrote: »

You can still probably pay it though. That's not the case with a lot of people over here who are bled fúcking dry every month with hugely excessive utility bills that are only hugely excessive because they incorporate huge institutional waste and inefficiences.

Nah,

Your utilities are cheaper too, for both Electricity and Gas
http://www.energy.eu/#Domestic

Germany its a fair whack more expensive for Electricity than Ireland or NL.

inforfun

Because people use the UK to compare motoring costs with, and Keith and earlier myself, used Holland to compare with.
If Holland cant be compared, than the UK cant be either.

We both have the experience what it costs to keep a car on the road in Holland. And it does cost you an arm and a leg. New cars are more expensive than here and so are 2nd hand ones.

Briliiant Public transport in Holland? Took me also a healthy 1hr20 minutes to go from the southern part of the town i lived in to the north eastern for work. By car it would take me 15/20 mins max.

Things are definately not perfect here but they are nowhere.

Health service was mentoned as being great in Holland. Well, tel lthat to my mom who had the choice of a hip replacemnt being done in 2 years in het home town or in 6 months 120 km away from home.
The only real good thing is that you dont pay 50/60 yoyo to see a GP.
Health insurance you have to pay in Holland is more expensive than what i pay here.

The way i see it is that in Holland i was robbed of 55% of my salary every month without getting back that much more than i get here. Actually, apart from the GP i cant think of much.
Fortunately i have not needed one in 9 years here.

keithclancy

inforfun wrote: »

Because people use the UK to compare motoring costs with, and Keith and earlier myself, used Holland to compare with.
If Holland cant be compared, than the UK cant be either.

Exactly, people here bandy around information based on assumption saying X or Y Country is Cheaper/Better and then when someone does the opposite and actually posts links to sources you jump on them becuase the facts don't suit your agenda.

And yes, Public Transport is 'better' but its expensive, actually the Germans would say very expensive.

Also it depends what part of the country you live in, most Irish people think Holland ends and begins with Amsterdam.

tipptom

inforfun wrote: »

Because people use the UK to compare motoring costs with, and Keith and earlier myself, used Holland to compare with.
If Holland cant be compared, than the UK cant be either.

We both have the experience what it costs to keep a car on the road in Holland. And it does cost you an arm and a leg. New cars are more expensive than here and so are 2nd hand ones.

Briliiant Public transport in Holland? Took me also a healthy 1hr20 minutes to go from the southern part of the town i lived in to the north eastern for work. By car it would take me 15/20 mins max.

Things are definately not perfect here but they are nowhere.

Health service was mentoned as being great in Holland. Well, tel lthat to my mom who had the choice of a hip replacemnt being done in 2 years in het home town or in 6 months 120 km away from home.
The only real good thing is that you dont pay 50/60 yoyo to see a GP.
Health insurance you have to pay in Holland is more expensive than what i pay here.

The way i see it is that in Holland i was robbed of 55% of my salary every month without getting back that much more than i get here. Actually, apart from the GP i cant think of much.
Fortunately i have not needed one in 9 years here.

I could imagine if there was a load of old people reading this going,"oh if had only to travel 120km and get it replaced in only six months then life would be bliss",in a grandpa simpson voice.

HellFireClub

keithclancy wrote: »

Nah,

Your utilities are cheaper too, for both Electricity and Gas
http://www.energy.eu/#Domestic

Germany its a fair whack more expensive for Electricity than Ireland or NL.

That's not what I said, what I said was that you seem to be able to pay these bills without finding yourself completely broke at the end of the month and that isn't the case for a lot of people over here these days...

Cummybaby

rodento wrote: »

Whats the government going to do to address this

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/onein10-drivers-refusing-to-pay-for-motor-tax-2667077.html

Would like to see parked cars clamped if they have motor tax over 3mths out of date or uninsured

Pay for Motor Tax!! Dont make me laugh. Our taxes are going straight into the hands of the middle class professional con men who are ****ing the ordinary person up the arse.

Just coz its enshrined by the law and enforced by the garda siochana, doesnt make it right. Dont give the bastards one single penny.

HellFireClub

Cummybaby wrote: »

Pay for Motor Tax!! Dont make me laugh. Our taxes are going straight into the hands of the middle class professional con men who are ****ing the ordinary person up the arse.

Just coz its enshrined by the law and enforced by the garda siochana, doesnt make it right. Dont give the bastards one single penny.

+1 car tax is for mugs.

Liam Byrne

keithclancy wrote: »

If you need a car every weekend then your doing something wrong

:eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: WHAT ?????

Do you have ANY idea of the reality of living in Ireland ?

I have a 50-mile round trip at weekends for part-time work; work that I cannot obviously move house for and yet I have to stomach the trip and the fuel costs because things are tight.

But in your view trying to make ends meet is "doing something wrong" ???

If I typed what I want to say here I'd get banned.

keithclancy wrote: »

Right, obviously you've never looked at total cost of ownership

Yes I have, so don't be so patronising.

There is very little depreciation on a ten-year-old car. The hit has already been taken. And given that a lot of ordinary decent Irish people are struggling to survive, they won't be buying anything new anytime soon.

keithclancy wrote: »

Servicing (120/ service if I do it myself, required at least every year)

.....depending on mileage. I do about 8K a year, work from home during the week, but as I said I need the car every weekend to get to work. Not only that, but renting the car would incur additional transport costs to actually get to the rental agency and back....about €12 each way in taxis.

keithclancy wrote: »

And finally the risk that if it gets stolen/wrecked/keyed/crashed then that all costs money as well.

Try returning a keyed car to a rental agency and let's see what excess they kick onto your payment. :rolleyes:

keithclancy wrote: »

Its a well known fact a car is a money hole, if you didn't know this before you bought one you didn't really think about it properly

Again with the patronising bull****.

keithclancy wrote: »

Ahhh ... there we go, flexibility, i.e. convenience.
Its a luxury that you cannot afford.

I mentioned this as an ADDITIONAL aspect once all of the BASIC REQUIREMENTS AND ESSENTIALS were factored in. But of course you chose to ignore that fact as it didn't suit your agenda.

keithclancy wrote: »

Your mentality amazes me that you think a car should have a loan attached to it.

Your arrogant posts are unbelieveable.

I don't know where you are living but I can tell you that it is impossible to survive in Ireland without a car.

But given the patronising tone of your posts, don't expect a reply. You have been talking through your hole in all the posts so far, ignoring the reality of living in Ireland where there is no public transport.

Anyway, I'm off to use the ignore button based on the tripe content of your posts so far.
:rolleyes:

inforfun

tipptom wrote: »

I could imagine if there was a load of old people reading this going,"oh if had only to travel 120km and get it replaced in only six months then life would be bliss",in a grandpa simpson voice.

I forgot to mention, those waiting lists are with private health insurance.

keithclancy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

:eek: :eek: :mad: :mad: WHAT ?????

Do you have ANY idea of the reality of living in Ireland ?

I have a 50-mile round trip at weekends for part-time work; work that I cannot obviously move house for and yet I have to stomach the trip and the fuel costs because things are tight.

But in your view trying to make ends meet is "doing something wrong" ???

If I typed what I want to say here I'd get banned.

Yes I have, so don't be so patronising.

Yup, Lived in Ireland most of my life.

There is very little depreciation on a ten-year-old car. The hit has already been taken. And given that a lot of ordinary decent Irish people are struggling to survive, they won't be buying anything new anytime soon.

Own a 10 year old car purchased for 3000 euros, in 5 years your will get sweet fa for it. So you can basically wave goodbye to that 3000 euros.

.....depending on mileage. I do about 8K a year, work from home during the week, but as I said I need the car every weekend to get to work. Not only that, but renting the car would incur additional transport costs to actually get to the rental agency and back....about €12 each way in taxis.

A service is required on time basis as well as mileage, i.e. Timing Belt, Oil, Filters, Fluids.

Try returning a keyed car to a rental agency and let's see what excess they kick onto your payment. :rolleyes:

Car Hire Excess Insurance is a one off payment of 60 euros for the year

Again with the patronising bull****.

Its not patronising, work out the total cost of ownership per month, keep every receipt for items you've spent on a car for a year, its an interesting exercise, one that would surprise you.

I mentioned this as an ADDITIONAL aspect once all of the BASIC REQUIREMENTS AND ESSENTIALS were factored in. But of course you chose to ignore that fact as it didn't suit your agenda.

Its a Luxury, I spend a total of 650 euros / month for my car (without any finance), I could spend half that on Public Transport, but it adds 1hr 45 to my commute each way, I sacrifice other things to cover that cost.

Your arrogant posts are unbelieveable.

Your posts maintaining a car is a right is unbelieveable.

I don't know where you are living but I can tell you that it is impossible to survive in Ireland without a car.

I must write a letter immediately to my carless friends and check they are alive.

But given the patronising tone of your posts, don't expect a reply. You have been talking through your hole in all the posts so far, ignoring the reality of living in Ireland where there is no public transport.

Very mature
I would assume talking about one's "hole" offensive.

Godge

HellFireClub wrote: »

There is then the other small little matter of those driving light commercial vehicles/vans, who last year are told that they would have to sign a declaration to the effect that the vehicle is NEVER used for personal use, in order to get road tax for the vehicle.

I'm in the process of acquiring a small van for my business, I will not be signing any such declaration, I will not be taxing the vehicle on this basis, because as far as I can see it, I have a constitutional right to use a vehicle of a company that I own, for personal use if I see fit, such as travel to and from work.

I'm no longer prepared to run with stupid PS makey uppy petty rules that have distroyed this country so seize my van and I'll take my chances in court.

Which article of the constitution gives you that right? I don't recall reading it in my version.

HellFireClub

Godge wrote: »

Which article of the constitution gives you that right? I don't recall reading it in my version.

The Constitution (Bunreacht na hÉireann) declares that Irish citizens have a right to own property. Broadly speaking, Article 40.3.2 pledges that the State will vindicate the property rights of every cititizen. This means that you have a right to own, transfer and inherit property. You also have the right to bequeath property upon your death. The State guarantees to pass no law to abolish these rights.
Article 43 acknowledges that these rights ought to be regulated by the principles of social justice. This means that the State may pass laws limiting your right to private propety in the interests of the common good. If the state passes a law that restricts your property rights, it may be required to compensate you for this restriction.
Examples of restrictions or limitations on your right to own property include town and regional planning, protection of national monuments, compulsory acquisition of land and property taxes.


I consider that this state telling me that once I own a company, and by extention own the assets of that company, that once I legitimately tax that vehicle as a commercial vehicle, that forcing me to sign a declaration to the effect that I will undertake to never use that vehicle for a personal purpose, to be a breach of my rights to own and and have fair use of my property, subsequent to rights afforded to me pursuant to article 40.3.2 of the constitution....


I'm all for fair play and fair taxation, but I've quite frankly had enough of gombeen bullshít petty rules that are made up to frustrate you in your daily life in this country.

Godge

HellFireClub wrote: »

The Constitution (Bunreacht na hÉireann) declares that Irish citizens have a right to own property. Broadly speaking, Article 40.3.2 pledges that the State will vindicate the property rights of every cititizen. This means that you have a right to own, transfer and inherit property. You also have the right to bequeath property upon your death. The State guarantees to pass no law to abolish these rights.
Article 43 acknowledges that these rights ought to be regulated by the principles of social justice. This means that the State may pass laws limiting your right to private propety in the interests of the common good. If the state passes a law that restricts your property rights, it may be required to compensate you for this restriction.
Examples of restrictions or limitations on your right to own property include town and regional planning, protection of national monuments, compulsory acquisition of land and property taxes.


I consider that thisstate telling me that once I own a company, and by extention own the assets of that company, that once I legitimately tax that vehicle as a commercial vehicle, that forcing me to sign a declaration to the effect that I will undertake to never use that vehicle for a personal purpose, to be a breach of my rights to own and and have fair use of my property, subsequent to rights afforded to me pursuant to article 40.3.2 of the constitution....


I'm all for fair play and fair taxation, but I've quite frankly had enough of gombeen bullshít petty rules that are made up to frustrate you in your daily life in this country.

Yeah, sounds good in theory, until you read the bit in bold. The state allows a lower tax for private use which is in the interest of social justice so the rules are fully compliant with the constitution. Your position is not.

If you were to win your case, the logical conclusion is that all motor tax should be raised to the commercial level and that the subsidy to private owners in the name of social justice should be ended.

tipptom

inforfun wrote: »

I forgot to mention, those waiting lists are with private health insurance.

Oh,i know that, but this goverment is trying to bring in your system for everyone because though it has its faults it has to be better than the system in place here even though i never thought i would hear myself saying give it over to the private insurance companies.

cursai

charlemont wrote: »

Why does it upset you so much ?

Any car out of tax for 3months or older can be seized anyway..

2 Months!:)

Liam Byrne

keithclancy wrote: »

Own a 10 year old car purchased for 3000 euros, in 5 years your will get sweet fa for it. So you can basically wave goodbye to that 3000 euros.

Who's talking about purchasing a ten-year-old car ?

I'm talking about having no choice but to KEEP one that's already paid for.

Therefore - since it's paid for - it no longer owes you anything.

Yes, it's depreciated during those 10 years by 2K per year, but at the stage that it's 10 years old, it's worthless.

So there's no 3,000 euro to say goodbye to.

keithclancy wrote: »

A service is required on time basis as well as mileage, i.e. Timing Belt, Oil, Filters, Fluids.

Timing belt is the big one, and that's done.

keithclancy wrote: »

Its not patronising, work out the total cost of ownership per month, keep every receipt for items you've spent on a car for a year, its an interesting exercise, one that would surprise you.

Again, you're being patronising. It won't "surprise me" because I've done it.

However there is essentially no choice but to own a car give the lack of transport options in Ireland.

keithclancy wrote: »

Its a Luxury, I spend a total of 650 euros / month for my car (without any finance), I could spend half that on Public Transport, but it adds 1hr 45 to my commute each way, I sacrifice other things to cover that cost.

If you could use public transport, then it's a luxury for you, as it would be if someone lived on a Dart or Luas line in Ireland.

However you're refusing point-blank to acknowledge people who don't have those options, and spouting crap about them somehow "doing something wrong"....this DESPITE the fact that a bus service was promised to this area 10 years ago and never materialised......how, pray tell, in your amazingly expert opinion did I "do something wrong" if I factored that in to living here ?
And how is it my fault if the public service promised was never provided ?

keithclancy wrote: »

Your posts maintaining a car is a right is unbelieveable.

I didn't say anywhere that it was a "right"; I said it was a necessity. Don't misquote me again.

keithclancy wrote: »

I must write a letter immediately to my carless friends and check they are alive.

If they're in Dublin, they're probably fine. If they're elsewhere, then they've probably bought a car since you left.

keithclancy wrote: »

Very mature
I would assume talking about one's "hole" offensive.

Sorry, but that's what you get when you generalise and spout nonsense about people "doing something wrong". If you want to discuss things sensibly, then lose the attitude and stop telling me that I'm "doing something wrong" and other such bull****, and then I'll reply accordingly; otherwise your posts don't deserve any respect.

keithclancy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

If you could use public transport, then it's a luxury for you, as it would be if someone lived on a Dart or Luas line in Ireland.

And the bus ? Have you ever been on one ? I used the service for a good few years. They do exist outside of Dublin you know.

However you're refusing point-blank to acknowledge people who don't have those options, and spouting crap about them somehow "doing something wrong"....this DESPITE the fact that a bus service was promised to this area 10 years ago and never materialised......how, pray tell, in your amazingly expert opinion did I "do something wrong" if I factored that in to living here ?
And how is it my fault if the public service promised was never provided ?

Everyone has options, you just choose not to see them.

Carpooling for example ?
http://carpool.ie/

I didn't say anywhere that it was a "right"; I said it was a necessity. Don't misquote me again.

Excellent, then pay your Motor Tax, if it is truly is a necessity and you cannot 'live' without it.

Doesn't seem to me your driving around the 'odd time', if your doing part time work on the weekends.

If they're in Dublin, they're probably fine. If they're elsewhere, then they've probably bought a car since you left.

Cork, Sligo, Galway, Tipp, Yup they're all fine some are in Dublin but not in the City Center.

Maybe downgrade to a Moped, the Tax and Insurance is much lower if you cannot afford to run a car and need to be mobile on demand and have no option to car share, use public transport, cycle or walk.

Bruthal

rodento wrote: »

The Department of Transport analysed data from the toll operators of Dublin's M50 motorway, where the number plates of vehicles using the motorway were cross-checked against motor-tax records.

Maybe you could go around looking for them yourself parked on streets, and rat them out rodento.

Liam Byrne

keithclancy wrote: »

And the bus ? Have you ever been on one ? I used the service for a good few years. They do exist outside of Dublin you know.

Exactly the sort of patronising crap that I was on about.

Did you even bother reading my post about the promised bus never materialising ?

Actually, since you quoted it immediately after spouting the above and still proceeded to pass the above comment, was it simply too inconvenient a fact for you to work into your reply and correct yourself ?

keithclancy wrote: »

Carpooling for example ?

Ah yes....lots of people doing 50 mile round trips on weekend afternoons :rolleyes:

keithclancy wrote: »

Excellent, then pay your Motor Tax, if it is truly is a necessity and you cannot 'live' without it.

I have no choice. That wasn't the argument - the argument was your factually incorrect and patronising statements.

keithclancy wrote: »

Doesn't seem to me your driving around the 'odd time', if your doing part time work on the weekends.

Again, you didn't even bother reading my posts......the car is relatively unused during the week due to working from a home office. Unfortunately this fact is not taken into account with road tax, which means I pay the same road tax as someone driving 20,000 or 30,000 a year.

keithclancy wrote: »

Cork, Sligo, Galway, Tipp, Yup they're all fine some are in Dublin but not in the City Center.

Ireland doesn't have "Centers"

keithclancy wrote: »

Maybe downgrade to a Moped, the Tax and Insurance is much lower if you cannot afford to run a car and need to be mobile on demand and have no option to car share, use public transport, cycle or walk.

Mopeds aren't allowed on motorways :rolleyes:, so yet again you're making ridiculous assumptions and talking through....well, I won't repeat it.

Look - I mentioned it earlier but count me out. I've had enough ridiculous assumptions and useless assertions for one thread.

keithclancy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Exactly the sort of patronising crap that I was on about.

Did you even bother reading my post about the promised bus never materialising ?

Or was that too inconvenient a fact for you ?

Have you done anything about it ?
Write a letter to your local TD ?
Complain to Bus Eireann ? (I have)

Ah yes....lots of people doing 50 mile round trips on weekends :rolleyes:

Yes .. people do work weekends you know, just like you.

I have no choice. That wasn't the argument - the argument was your factually incorrect and patronising statements.

This thread is about people not paying their Motor Tax, if you are then thats perfect. Do you pay your Motor Tax ?

Again, you didn't even bother reading my posts......the car is relatively unused during the week due to working from a home office. Unfortunately this fact is not taken into account with road tax, which means I pay the same road tax as someone driving 20,000 or 30,000 a year.

Motor Tax is not for the Roads.
Why should you pay less or more ?

Ireland doesn't have "Centers"

They'll have to take down those Road Signs then:

Mopeds aren't allowed on motorways :rolleyes:, so yet again you're making ridiculous assumptions and talking through....well, I won't repeat it.

So you have to use motorways then, thats fine as long as you vehicle is road legal.

Look - I mentioned it earlier but count me out. I've had enough ridiculous assumptions and useless assertions for one thread.

You do know this whole thread is about not paying motor tax .. ?
If you pay your motor tax then you can legally drive your car and afford to drive it.

I have no issue with that whatsoever, the majority of people I know find it cheaper to 'rent' a car than to own one Clearly in your case that is not the case.

Why did you even post in this thread saying these abusive things if you pay your motor tax and agree with it ?

Anyway .. I thought you had put me on ignore :rolleyes:

Rabidlamb

In 2006 a cop tried to impound my car when the tax was out by 2 months.
I was shocked & refused to hand over the car.
I made such a scene he allowed me 10 days to produce instead as there was an impatient queue building up behind.
After having to pay the 55% fine on the back tax I was bitter as hell.
I drove that car until 2010 & never taxed it again,car was worthless anyway so my attitude was they could have it if I got pulled.

Anyway I bought new wheels last year so I'm back on the grid.
Car Tax should have been rolled into fuel costs back when times were good.

HellFireClub

Godge wrote: »

The state allows a lower tax for private use which is in the interest of social justice so the rules are fully compliant with the constitution. Your position is not.

In your opinion...

Godge wrote: »

If you were to win your case, the logical conclusion is that all motor tax should be raised to the commercial level and that the subsidy to private owners in the name of social justice should be ended.

My argument here isn't about raising all vehicles into the commercial tax band. My issue is very simple. There is no reason on this earth why I should have to sign a declaration stating that I will NEVER use a work vehicle for personal use. In theory, as well as in practice, I could never use the only vehicle that I have, to drive to or from work, as I would be driving it on my own personal time, which means that I have made a false declaration to Revenue which carries it's own set of penalties.

I would argue that this irrational position adopted by the state, serves no principle of social justice, it is just another example of a gombeen petty rule, dreamnt up by some utterly removed from reality senior civil servant, the only effect of which can be to either keep me out of self employment as I cannot afford two vehicles, or else force me to sign a false declaration to Revenue.

The petty PS bullshít rules that have caused this state to implode need to be confronted at every opportunity. How is any principle of social justice served by this rule??? What is so wrong with making a person sign a declaration to the effect that the vehicle is used not exclusively, but in the majoritive sense, for commercial purposes, thereby allowing someone to drive to work and home again in their work vehicle???

Do you realise that every person who is driving to and from work in this state in a company car is doing so illegally?!?

Max Power1

Godge wrote: »

Yeah, sounds good in theory, until you read the bit in bold. The state allows a higher tax for private use which is in the interest of social justice so the rules are fully compliant with the constitution. Your position is not.

If you were to win your case, the logical conclusion is that all motor tax should be lowered to the commercial level and that the subsidy to commercial owners in the name of commerce should be ended.

fyp

commercial tax is 288€/annum, most private tax (especially on the CC rates) is above this.

Mr X11

Used to pay it years ago but cant afford it now.

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

Everyone has options, you just choose not to see them.

Carpooling for example ?
http://carpool.ie/

Imagine trying to get someone to carpool so you can do your weekly shopping

keithclancy

keithclancy wrote: »

I don't feel for you one little bit.

http://www.belastingdienst.nl/reken/motorrijtuigenbelasting/

Type: Personal Car

Province : Noord Holland

What fuel do you drive with : Diesel

Weight Class of Vehicle: 1351 - 1450 (Passat 1.9 TDI Weight Class is 1369kg)

Per Quarter: 342 Euros
Per Year: 1356 Euros

Everything is Relative .. Owning a Vehicle in Ireland is dirt cheap compared to here.

you know the unemployment rate in the Netherlands is under 4.5% - i.e full employment in economic terms. So they have money.

There is also a wonderful public transport system because their entire country is planned. So they have an option.

Holland is densely populated, Ireland is one of the least densely populated countries in Europe and the least populated in Western Europe

Not comparable at all!!!!

rodento

rodento wrote: »

Would like to see parked cars clamped if they have motor tax over 3mths out of date or uninsured

I would rather see some bankers and politicians hung drawn and quartered to be honest. I think your concerns are 100% misplaced.

Bruthal

keithclancy wrote: »

Its a Luxury, I spend a total of 650 euros / month for my car (without any finance), I could spend half that on Public Transport, but it adds 1hr 45 to my commute each way, I sacrifice other things to cover that cost.

A car is a luxury now? So is public transport then if thats true, as it would be possible to walk too, even of its 10 or 20 miles, and not bother with public transport either. 10 miles would only take 3 hours to walk, so the public transport must also be a luxury, as a car is because it saves you 1h45 a day versus public transport.

Do you live in a house? Is that a luxury, or would a cave not do instead, like they once did? Running tap water must be a luxury too so. Clothes? Food in shops?

A car is a necessity more than a luxury for many. Just because you have to sacrifice other things to have it does not make it a luxury. Its usually the sacrificing of luxury or non essential items that happens to allow the necessary ones. People will do what they have to to survive, not what some others such as yourself tell them is right or wrong according to your own perfect judgemental criteria, based on your own circumstances, outside of which you obviously cant even hypothetically place yourself.

keithclancy

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine trying to get someone to carpool so you can do your weekly shopping

I've done it, every second week out to Mahon Point

you know the unemployment rate in the Netherlands is under 4.5% - i.e full employment in economic terms. So they have money.

There is also a wonderful public transport system because their entire country is planned. So they have an option.

Holland is densely populated, Ireland is one of the least densely populated countries in Europe and the least populated in Western Europe

Not comparable at all!!!!

Your assuming everyone lives in the Randstad, i.e. Rotterdam, The Hague or Amsterdam.

And its 5.5% not 4.5%

Public Transport is expensive in European Terms, again its great in the Randstad, not so great outside it.

A car is a luxury now? So is public transport then if thats true, as it would be possible to walk too, even of its 10 or 20 miles, and not bother with public transport either. 10 miles would only take 3 hours to walk, so the public transport must also be a luxury, as a car is because it saves you 1h45 a day versus public transport.

If you choose to live 10 or 20 miles outside public transport links then thats your choice, your car becomes a necessity, but then you have to accept that you have to pay Motor Tax.

A car is a necessity more than a luxury for many. Just because you have to sacrifice other things to have it does not make it a luxury. Its usually the sacrificing of luxury or non essential items that happens to allow the necessary ones. People will do what they have to to survive, not what some others such as yourself tell them is right or wrong according to your own perfect judgemental criteria, based on your own circumstances, outside of which you obviously cant even hypothetically place yourself.

Definitely, but this whole thread is about non payment of Motor Tax. If you own a car and its a necessity, you made it a necessity. then you pay the Motor Tax, simple.

If you don't pay the tax then it needs to be seized and held until you pay the fine + back tax and if you don't pay it then its crushed at your expense.

so the public transport must also be a luxury, as a car is because it saves you 1h45 a day versus public transport.

No, the Car works out more cheaply in Cost vs Time 3hrs 30 minutes / day is worth more to me than 300 euros a month. The Public Transport is a necessity fulfilling the basic need to get to and from work, the car is a luxury adding convenience.

If you don't want to pay Motor Tax and don't feel its fair then don't own a Car and don't live 10 or 20 miles from any Public Transport.

A car is only a necessity if you choose to make it one i.e. by choosing somewhere to live with no other way to get around.

Doesn't anyone take this into account when choosing where to live ?

KindOfIrish

rodento wrote: »

Another idea is for motor tax to send a list to the gaurds of all un taxed cars and get them to pay the owners a short visit, would be way quicker and more effective than random road checks

Gards overtime payment will exceed tax take thou

Bruthal

keithclancy wrote: »

A car is only a necessity if you choose to make it one i.e. by choosing somewhere to live with no other way to get around.

Doesn't anyone take this into account when choosing where to live ?

Im sure they did, but they had a car, paid their tax for years, bought a house they could afford, and not everyone bought a house to be on the property ladder, and now find they are in financial trouble, but of course, as i said, because you are not, nor can you even try to put yourself in the same position some others find themselves in, then its ok for you to dictate the wrong doings of others. Desperate times, desperate measures.


Its all so easy for you to tell the 4 million people in ireland they should live within walking distance of city centres. Your not alone though, there are many perfect posters on boards, who never set a foot wrong, but do condemn others for not doing everything perfectly like you do. After all, everyone in arrears etc must sacrifice other necessities, and its their own fault for needing a car, and for being in arrears, isn`t it keith?

Bruthal

keithclancy wrote: »

If you own a car and its a necessity, you made it a necessity. then you pay the Motor Tax, simple.

Is your car a necessity?

keithclancy

robbie7730 wrote: »

Im sure they did, but they had a car, paid their tax for years, bought a house they could afford, and not everyone bought a house to be on the property ladder, and now find they are in financial trouble, but of course, as i said, because you are not, nor can you even try to put yourself in the same position some others find themselves in, then its ok for you to dictate the wrong doings of others. Desperate times, desperate measures.

And hundreds of thousands of people chose to live on a commuter route,

Its nothing to do with being able to 'afford it' its the fact its a luxury item and its taxed as such.

Are you saying they were idiots for living near a bus/dart/luas/train route, or for living within a few kilometers of work and a town/village ?

Should they just move to a cheaper house in the countryside, buy a car and not pay motortax becuase it becomes a necessity for them ?

Do you think that is fair ?

Its all so easy for you to tell the 4 million people in ireland they should live within walking distance of city centres. Your not alone though, there are many perfect posters on boards, who never set a foot wrong, but do condemn others for not doing everything perfectly like you do. After all, everyone in arrears etc must sacrifice other necessities, and its their own fault for needing a car, and for being in arrears, isn`t it keith?

There are people that get the bus, cycle and car share every day.
My point is if you own a car then pay the Motor Tax !

Is your car a necessity?

Not at all, commuted via Train for 2 years, lived in a Studio Apartment from Monday or sometimes Tuesday - Thursday.

Saved up the money, moved closer to work and bought a car.

Couldn't afford a car at that time.

Have to get by without the car sometimes still, 40,000km / year takes its toll

donalg1

keithclancy wrote: »

Definitely, but this whole thread is about non payment of Motor Tax. If you own a car and its a necessity, you made it a necessity. then you pay the Motor Tax, simple.


A car is only a necessity if you choose to make it one i.e. by choosing somewhere to live with no other way to get around.

Doesn't anyone take this into account when choosing where to live ?

This makes no sense to me, most people live where they can afford, not everyone can afford to choose to live close to where they need to be on any given day as this is likely to change day to day, e.g. if i work in Location A, and have a choice to live in Location B which is 1 mile from A and on a public transport route for €500 per week or Location C twenty miles away and with no public transport around for €50 per week, are you trying to say i would be stupid to live in Location C and buy a car because obviously i could've lived somewhere closer?

keithclancy

donalg1 wrote: »

This makes no sense to me, most people live where they can afford, not everyone can afford to choose to live close to where they need to be on any given day as this is likely to change day to day, e.g. if i work in Location A, and have a choice to live in Location B which is 1 mile from A and on a public transport route for €500 per week or Location C twenty miles away and with no public transport around for €50 per week, are you trying to say i would be stupid to live in Location C and buy a car because obviously i could've lived somewhere closer?

Not at all... but then your cost of living includes a car and that includes Motor Tax.