Roman Catholic Subforum/Moderation

Overheal

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

I don't quite know. But we are not allowed to create any Christian only/ Christian spirited response type posts.

Replace the word "Catholic" with "Whites" and you get an idea.

Keylem

Overheal wrote: »

Replace the word "Catholic" with "Whites" and you get an idea.

I think you have it the wrong way around!

hinault

LoLth wrote: »

I admit, I'm against the idea of a sub-forum for Roman catholic discussion but I am open to discussion and , if you convince me I would certainly present your arguments to the other admins. its up to you.

That's fair enough. Thank you.

hinault

lmaopml wrote: »

The group thing sounds really good? I was aware there was such a thing but never really looked into it too much, or bothered looking at how it works...Thanks!

So fellow Catholics, what do you reckon? Hinault for mod of our new group, start small and all that stuff?

Maybe set up a thread on Christianity to see what other Catholics think?

The group idea is a good one, I think.

I'm not moderator material being honest but I would willingly join any RC grouping where RC's can post/exchange views.

Doctor DooM

Keylem wrote: »

It's not just about being Catholic, it's about living your Faith, including in the workplace. Catholicism is not just for Sunday worship, it's a way of life!

Which has what exactly to do with what I just said?

Secularism means Catholics are treated and protected exactly the same and from all other religions- it's just applied the same to Catholicism. No one is allowed assume or assert dominance over the other. As I said- if you're seeing it another way, it's down to priviledge.

Bearing in mind precedent is not a reason for getting a forum on boards, by definition anyone would allowed to be able to ost there of varying opinions and that boards doesn't appoint mods by religion or really anything other than ability to mod, you need to find a reason for the forum in that space.

pljudge321

This is much akin to Man United fans in the football forum demanding that a Man United supporter be made mod to balance out all the Liverpool and Arsenal Mods who keep suppressing them.








(Note I have never been in the football forum)

Keylem

pljudge321 wrote: »

This is much akin to Man United fans in the football forum demanding that a Man United supporter be made mod to balance out all the Liverpool and Arsenal Mods who keep suppressing them.

It's more akin to Soccer V Rugby, different game, different rules, both ball games!

Bottle_of_Smoke

Overheal wrote: »

Replace the word "Catholic" with "Whites" and you get an idea.

That's not the same thing at all.

georgieporgy

I've only just discovered this thread when someone linked to it on an A&A thread. Plus I have a day job. So if it seems hinault has been left on his own, the reason is nobody was aware of the discussion.

One thing I notice when reading through the thread is that all the ' anti' posters personally dislike the catholic church. For example the admin beruthial has shown her colours in many posts in a few forums. So it would seem to the impartial reader that the decision making power is in the hands of a biggoted cabal of individuals who dislike anything RC.

I hope I'm wrong in coming to that conclusion but so far see no evidence for an alternative view.
Those who are not downright anti catholic are simply ignorant of what catholicism and /or religion in general is.

So we have a bunch of athiests, protestants and ex catholics making the decision.

If there was an RC forum I think it should be open to all posters just like all the other areas on boards. It would be a community where people who wanted to hear what the catholics have to say on a particular topic could post. Trolls and overtly anticatholic diatribes could be redirected to A&A and the christianity sections.

Presently the 2 busiest sites in the religion section are A&A and christianity. If there was an RC forum I bet it have the highest volume of traffic in no time.

Quo Vadis

I'm one of the posters that was banned from the Christianity forum for asking questions about the likelihood of a Catholic mod or forum.

I have just become aware of the discussion here.


Any queries ?

looksee

georgieporgy wrote: »

I've only just discovered this thread when someone linked to it on an A&A thread. Plus I have a day job. So if it seems hinault has been left on his own, the reason is nobody was aware of the discussion.

One thing I notice when reading through the thread is that all the ' anti' posters personally dislike the catholic church.

I haven't seen any evidence of anyone personally disliking the catholic church in this thread. People have been arguing that there is no need for a separate RC thread, any more than there is a need for a C of I thread or a Presbyterian thread etc. There have not been any more convincing arguements for a thread than 'we want one'.

For example the admin beruthial has shown her colours in many posts in a few forums. So it would seem to the impartial reader that the decision making power is in the hands of a biggoted cabal of individuals who dislike anything RC.

We can't have what we want so we are victims of bigotry!

Those who are not downright anti catholic are simply ignorant of what catholicism and /or religion in general is.

So we have a bunch of athiests, protestants and ex catholics making the decision.

Its a forum. It has mods. You don't have to be of a particular belief system to make mod decisions. There are male mods in the Ladies Lounge, there are people with a particular political preference modding Politics - all politics, not 'Fianna Fail Forum' or 'Labour Forum'.

If there was an RC forum I think it should be open to all posters just like all the other areas on boards. It would be a community where people who wanted to hear what the catholics have to say on a particular topic could post.

So you are actually looking for a soapbox from which you can pronounce, rather than a discussion forum? You can express Catholic opinions in the Christianity forum, as can Protestants and any one else who is interested.

Trolls and overtly anticatholic diatribes could be redirected to A&A and the christianity sections.

Trolls and overtly anticatholic diatribes are not allowed in those Forums either.

I am increasingly getting the impression that posters looking for an RC forum are 1. trying to distance themselves from the taint of other Christian beliefs and 2. find the idea of someone arguing with Catholic beliefs somehow improper or even sacrilegious. Kind of 'we will lay the truth before you and you will accept it'.

georgieporgy

I am not saying posters have exhibited anti catholic bias in this thread. I said that the posters themselves are anticatholic. for example, one of your own recent posts, Looksee:

I am an ex-protestant, now of no faith. In response to some of the comments made in these posts:

It would not have bothered me on religious grounds if the statue had been left there.

The fact that it had been there for so long meant it was part of the 'scenery' or local tradition, or whatever. It could have stayed.

I doubt it was a 'Protestant' decision within the HSE that caused it to be removed, or that there are enough Protestants with 'clout' in the area that demanded its removal.

I do not agree with the whole 'offending other beliefs' business, when carried to these extremes. The RC church has treated me with varying degrees of contempt and dismissal (though I still get envelopes through the door to support the local church), but I do appreciate there are many people to whom the church is important, so I ignore it and let them get on with their beliefs, provided they do not interfere with mine.

I do not consider it a 'work of art' - reference one comment by a local politician.

I do not consider that it improved the front of the building aesthetically.

It might well have been a safety hazard after so many years.

The pragmatic solution of taking it down and putting it safely in the garden where it can be appreciated by those who want to observe it seems quite reasonable.

that puts you in "ex protestant atheistic dislike RC camp":pac:

LoLth

georgieporgy wrote: »

One thing I notice when reading through the thread is that all the ' anti' posters personally dislike the catholic church.

I'm anti the sub-forum idea, has anything I've posted made you think I'm anti RC?

For example the admin beruthial has shown her colours in many posts in a few forums.

those are her beliefs and she is entitled to them just as you are entitled to yours . live and let live no matter how wrong you think the other is.

So it would seem to the impartial reader that the decision making power is in the hands of a biggoted cabal of individuals who dislike anything RC.

now, I have decision making power so you are essentially stating that I am a bigotted member of a cabal. wow, thanks for that assumption. as a mod, I know its not an insult worth banning but its actually quite close, even qualified with your "to the impartial reader it would seem...". Me as a poster , I'm actually quite insulted. How dare you make any assumption about my faith or creed. I have treated all parties in this discussion with respect and tolerance and if you wish to continue partaking in this discussion I would strongly advise that you do the same.

I hope I'm wrong in coming to that conclusion but so far see no evidence for an alternative view.

you are. very much so.

Those who are not downright anti catholic are simply ignorant of what catholicism and /or religion in general is.

again a generalisation.

So we have a bunch of athiests, protestants and ex catholics making the decision.

and another assumption. you're on a roll here.

If there was an RC forum I think it should be open to all posters just like all the other areas on boards. It would be a community where people who wanted to hear what the catholics have to say on a particular topic could post. Trolls and overtly anticatholic diatribes could be redirected to A&A and the christianity sections.

so trolls would be directed elsewhere... just like every other forum where trolls arent allowed. It would be open to all, just like the Christianity forum is already. People could hear what catholics have to say on a particular topic, just like they already can in the Christianity forum. Except, in the Christianity forum they cant be kicked out if they dont like what they hear and say so in a post as long as the post obeys the rules of the forum. would the RC sub-forum have a rule to cover jsut how Staunchly catholic you need to be to a: have access, b: post an opinion, c: retain access if your opinion does not match the rest of the posters?

Presently the 2 busiest sites in the religion section are A&A and christianity. If there was an RC forum I bet it have the highest volume of traffic in no time.

its already part of one of the busiest forums why does it need to have its own sub-forum? so far you ahve not given a new reason why this request should be reconsidered and you've shown nothing but disdain for the people that would do the reconsidering. Are you actually so naive as to think the tactic of "you wont do it because you are not a nice person and by not doing it you prove my point" will actually lend any weight to your point. I apologise if I am being somewhat abrupt but you honestly have no idea how pissed off I am at the manner and tone of your post.

Penn

The Admins were made Admins for a good reason; they can set aside their own personal opinions to make an impartial decision. To go through other users previous posts which were made as a user of Boards, not an Admin, is bad form. The decision as to whether or not to create the proposed sub-forum is based on the advantages and disadvantages of such, and as other users/mods/admins have said, the reasons why you want a sub-forum are not sufficient enough. Other solutions have been proposed.

What does anyone's faith or lack thereof have to do with it? This is the same process every forum or sub-forum request goes through. Your request isn't being denied because anyone here is anti-Catholic. It's because there isn't enough of a need for a Catholic sub-forum.

El Weirdo

georgieporgy wrote: »

I am not saying posters have exhibited anti catholic bias in this thread. I said that the posters themselves are anticatholic. for example, one of your own recent posts, Looksee:

that puts you in "ex protestant atheistic dislike RC camp":pac:

Wow. Just wow.

looksee

georgieporgy wrote: »

I am not saying posters have exhibited anti catholic bias in this thread. I said that the posters themselves are anticatholic. for example, one of your own recent posts, Looksee:

that puts you in "ex protestant atheistic dislike RC camp":pac:

That does not make me 'anti-Catholic'. I said that the RC church has not treated me well, but if you read the thread you will see that I am advocating that the statue should not have been removed on religious grounds. On safety grounds possibly, and I said I did not see any aesthetic value in it, but neither of these makes me anti catholic.

Granted I do not have a great deal of enthusiasm for the RC church, but I have raised a Catholic family and seen them through first communions and confirmations and listened to catechisms.

Sadly you cannot see the difference between a person defending anothers' right to his beliefs while being indifferent towards those beliefs, and hating/being anti those beliefs.

OK, you do not seem to have any real arguments for having a RC forum. How about this, how can you convince and convert people to Catholicism if you do not want to engage in discussion with them?

Overheal

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

That's not the same thing at all.

So why then was the style of thread ruled out? It's sectarianism, not racism, but it all falls under the same banner of discrimination.

It's not just about being Catholic, it's about living your Faith, including in the workplace. Catholicism is not just for Sunday worship, it's a way of life!

And? That's true of many, if not all religions.

hinault

Barrington wrote: »

The Admins were made Admins for a good reason; they can set aside their own personal opinions to make an impartial decision. To go through other users previous posts which were made as a user of Boards, not an Admin, is bad form. The decision as to whether or not to create the proposed sub-forum is based on the advantages and disadvantages of such, and as other users/mods/admins have said, the reasons why you want a sub-forum are not sufficient enough. Other solutions have been proposed.

What does anyone's faith or lack thereof have to do with it? This is the same process every forum or sub-forum request goes through. Your request isn't being denied because anyone here is anti-Catholic. It's because there isn't enough of a need for a Catholic sub-forum.

I disagree.

I think the posts made by posters who have been granted administration capabilities is a good assessment as to whether or not they're prejudiced.

I have re-read some of the contributions from adminstrators/moderators who oppose the RC subforum in this very thread.
The views that they express here are of no surprise when you read some of the posts they've made in the past.
The inherent anti-RC bias is apparent with some adminstrators/moderators on this thread.

Personally I don't think administrators or moderators should be allowed post as users once they're granted privileges.
But that is a separate subject.

Overheal

hinault wrote: »

Personally I don't think administrators or moderators should be allowed post as users once they're granted privileges.
But that is a separate subject.

There have been higher level discussions about that before. It's simply not practical. Admins and Moderators are unpaid volunteers. The only reason They/We are even interested in the position is because we use the site, as any user would. If you made that restriction on Admins/Mods, you wouldn't see very many Admins or Mods volunteering. Any side-ideas about "Anonymous" Mods and Alt-Accounts (Mod #43, etc) went out the window long ago. That's not the type of place the Admins, or the Boards.ie shareholders, owners, etc. want the place to be. tl; dr - not happening.

Truth is the whole basis for your request is you want a Secular forum from Christianity, but one that holds Sectarian policies about how discussions would be carried out (ie. Catholics only, No Anti-Catholic sentiment, etc.). You have to know that will never hold water. Even the Christianity forum doesn't disbar Atheists or Evolutionists. None of that has anything to do with the Admins or their perceived personal feelings about the Roman Catholic Church.

meditraitor

Overheal wrote: »

(ie. Catholics only, No Anti-Catholic sentiment, etc.). You have to know that will never hold water. Even the Christianity forum doesn't disbar Atheists or Evolutionists. None of that has anything to do with the Admins or their perceived personal feelings about the Roman Catholic Church.

Like the LL????




This thread stinks of anti-catholic sentiment, well hidden but anyone with an open mind can see it!


WTF is wrong with giving catholics a forum with a catholic moderator??? Nothing......... ye ye ye ye I know its a private forum.

Delirium

meditraitor wrote: »

Like the LL????

last I checked atheists and evolutionists post in the LL forum :P

This thread stinks of anti-catholic sentiment, well hidden but anyone with an open mind can see it!

Just because Catholics aren't getting what there demanding, doesn't mean it's anti-Catholic. And I like how only "open minded" people are people that agree with you.

WTF is wrong with giving catholics a forum with a catholic moderator??? Nothing......... ye ye ye ye I know its a private forum.

No one has given a good reason as to why there should be a separate RC forum.

LoLth

hinault wrote: »

I disagree.

I think the posts made by posters who have been granted administration capabilities is a good assessment as to whether or not they're prejudiced.

I have re-read some of the contributions from adminstrators/moderators who oppose the RC subforum in this very thread.
The views that they express here are of no surprise when you read some of the posts they've made in the past.
The inherent anti-RC bias is apparent with some adminstrators/moderators on this thread.

Personally I don't think administrators or moderators should be allowed post as users once they're granted privileges.
But that is a separate subject.

I can assure you that religious belief has never, and should never, affect a person's ability to admin or moderate on boards.ie. I have no idea what religion the other admins are, its no concern of mine and has no impact on the quality of information and advice I find in their posts. Similarly, I have no idea - other than those I've actually met or those that have stated it openly -, nor do I care, what religion/sex/sexuality or nationality any of the mods or users are as it really has no bearing on whether or not they contribute to boards.ie.

The only people in this thread so far who believe that religious sentiment has any bearing on the decision are those supporting a sub forum for Roman catholics, ie: the users requesting the right to practice exclusion of a large chunk of the users based purely on their religious beliefs and that anyone objectign to this must be bigotted and/or anti-RC

as yet, despite multiple requests, no new reason has been brought to light to support the creation of a sub-forum that was not already considered in the initial request which was rejected, and not just by Beruthiel - she represented the rest of the admins in that discussion just as I am representing them here. In fact, the only "new" argument that has come to light is that if you dont get what you want, then the admins/mods/anyone who disagrees *must* be anti Roman Catholic, closed minded bigots - an attitude that I dont really see as very Christian at all to be honest and quite frankly I'm disappointed not only that the discussion has gone so far south so quickly but that its primarily the posters that claim to uphold a Catholic way of life that are the ones making the accuations.

The current stance is that the sub-forum is not an acceptable solution based on the message of exclusion and secular division that it would create. The Religion category is divided based on religious belief , not organisational divide. No-one has yet given a good enough reason for the admins , or anyone, to consider changing that stance that isnt already covered by the boards.ie and forum rules and enforced effectively by the admins and mods. The onyl failings that have been cited are those that involve more than one party and would be easily avoided if the wronged party reported the post to a mod instead of engaging in the slagging match.

So far, the *only* benefit I can see of a RC sub-forum would be that those who have posted in this thread calling other users bigots and generally insulting the rest of boards.ie from a high horse that they mistakenly think is moral superiority or purity would all end up posting in one place away from the rest of the boards.ie population which could only be a good thing. However, now that I think about it, we already have such a place but I dont think its really what you have in mind.

Now, are the supporters of the RC sub-forum idea going to drop the petty insults and pathetic attempts at coersion and manipulation and give a straight forward and honest answer to the question "Is there a new reason , not already considered in the Forum request discussion, that is compelling enough to cause the admins to reconsider the request ?" or are you going to chose to either drop the discussion now and accept that, for now, its not going to happen or continue to insult other members and be removed from the discussion for being disruptive and abusive.

Thats your decision and your call. This isnt any form of persecution, you have the choice and the repercussions of that choice are all yours to bear. I think that, up to now more than enough chances have been given and more than enough leeway granted to show that this conversation cannot continue unless the rules are applied with zero tolerance.

Any more insults or veiled abuse will be treated as abuse ant that user will be banned from feedback with no further warning. This applies to anyone that posts in this thread from here on out. Discuss the issue in a civil manner or gtfo

Fanny Cradock

Quo Vadis wrote: »

I'm one of the posters that was banned from the Christianity forum for asking questions about the likelihood of a Catholic mod or forum.

To clarify - you were banned for refusing to obey requests to stop spamming the forum with threads that didn't belong there.

lmaopml

Well, this is going better than expected...:pac:

Keylem

Overheal wrote: »

So
And? That's true of many, if not all religions.

Not so in the article I linked to! :rolleyes:

Keylem

koth wrote: »

Just because Catholics aren't getting what there demanding, doesn't mean it's anti-Catholic. And I like how only "open minded" people are people that agree with you.

.

We're not suggesting that not getting a forum is anti-Catholic, don't know where you got that one from!!

It got to the point that when Catholics posted anything to do with their beliefs, it got hi-jacked by certain posters and going off topic turned it into a, Paedophile, rape, cleric abusing fest, when it was just as rampant in 'other' denominations.

Delirium

Keylem wrote: »

We're not suggesting that not getting a forum is anti-Catholic, don't know where you got that one from!!

If you read the post I quoted you'd see where I got it from.

LoLth

Keylem wrote: »

We're not suggesting that not getting a forum is anti-Catholic, don't know where you got that one from!!

It got to the point that when Catholics posted anything to do with their beliefs, it got hi-jacked by certain posters and going off topic turned it into a, Paedophile, rape, cleric abusing fest, when it was just as rampant in 'other' denominations.

It may have been as common in other denomiations but they havent received the same level of media attention as the RC which would explain why there is a higher proportion of posters making these comments in RC centric threads and not others.

However, if the off topic posts were reported to the mods and then LEFT ALONE AND NOT RESPONDED TO (seriously, just report it, ignore and continue with the conversation, 9 times out of 10 its a bold child looking for attention) the mods could easily clean them up and deal with repeat offenders in a way that would remove them from the forum and prevent them from damaging future threads. I have often had to step in and bump a thread back on course and I have banned users for repeatedly dragging threads off course with their own agenda, users reporting the posts and not engaging with the off-topic-sidetrack were a great help in managing this.

So, how would a sub-forum prevent this from happening? It still has a mod, it still has users. the only way to stop it form happening is to have an exclusion policy that allows in the few and exempts the many as opposed to the current boards.ie policy (except in exceptional circumstances) where we allow in the many and ban the few. If the users actually helped the mods of the Christianity forum and made their life as easy as possible then I see no reason why trolls and muppets would just die out over time through attrition. resulting in off topic free threads that can be enjoyed by more than just one sub-group of religious posters.

honestly, which is better: open discussion that stays polite and on topic and has input from a myriad of viewpoints or a discussion where everyone has the same view, the same origin and the same reference points ?

Bottle_of_Smoke

Overheal wrote: »

So why then was the style of thread ruled out? It's sectarianism, not racism, but it all falls under the same banner of discrimination.

Sectarianism is acceptable in some situations. I mean if it weren't then virtually every religious organisation would be banned because every single one of them are inherently sectarian. Try become an Imam as a Catholic.

There are even cases where racism is acceptable too. If I said "Hey Jamal I should get more suncreem than you because you have darker skin" its technically a racist remark. Though seeing as whites are more prone to burnt skin in hot weather no one's gonna moan about it.

That's why "catholic spirited responses" are ok. Its a forum that caters for many competing religions and often atheist views too. I can imagine its frustrating for a catholic who wants to discuss something without getting bogged down answering critiscisms from atheists/rival christians

Overheal

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Sectarianism is acceptable in some situations. I mean if it weren't then virtually every religious organisation would be banned because every single one of them are inherently sectarian. Try become an Imam as a Catholic.

There are even cases where racism is acceptable too. If I said "Hey Jamal I should get more suncreem than you because you have darker skin" its technically a racist remark. Though seeing as whites are more prone to burnt skin in hot weather no one's gonna moan about it.

That's why "catholic spirited responses" are ok. Its a forum that caters for many competing religions and often atheist views too. I can imagine its frustrating for a catholic who wants to discuss something without getting bogged down answering critiscisms from atheists/rival christians

Your two examples dont sound like they hold up in the context of a message board though. I am aware that Sectarian political and religious discussions happen all the time. Look at Politics. Look at any number of bickering arguments between SF and FF and FG supporters. But there is no thread on politics that says SF Posters Only, or similar. One is more than free, in those cases, to call for the other to be thrown out of office, etc., but we don't have sterile conversations here where only 1 side of the discussion is allowed to occur. I haven't checked in some time but I don't think the soccer forum operates that way either, even in the club talk threads.