Roman Catholic Subforum/Moderation

Quo Vadis

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

To clarify - you were banned for refusing to obey requests to stop spamming the forum with threads that didn't belong there.

Actually to clarify, what occured was you refused any discussion of the matter and insisted we applied to a closed forum. When we pointed out that forum was closed and asked what next, or tried further discussion the answer was effectively a not my problem, talk to the hand attitude, and then you closed the thread and refused to answer any pm questions as well in the same style. Hence the only means of anyone discussing the matter was for users to start another thread. You were only asked civil questions, and for a discussion of the matter. You should have parked your ego and at least allowed people to discuss the matter on the Christianity forum so the issues could be ironed out, then if a concensuous was reached between users of that forum, we could have taken it to the next stage if that was necessary. For you to win does't mean you have to force other people to loose, have you every heard of a win-win situation ? Preventing discussion of a legitimate topic is never a good idea. I hope you've learned something from the episode, and to moderate any anti Catholic trolling as well as just anti Christian trolling in the future. Then you would have the respect of all sides and then requests for Catholic mods / forums would never arise.

Fanny Cradock

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Actually to clarify, what occured was you refused any discussion of the matter and insisted we applied to a closed forum. When we pointed out that forum was closed and asked what next, or tried further discussion the answer was effectively a not my problem, talk to the hand attitude, and then you closed the thread and refused to answer any pm questions as well in the same style. Hence the only means of anyone discussing the matter was for users to start another thread. You were only asked civil questions, and for a discussion of the matter. You should have parked your ego and at least allowed people to discuss the matter on the Christianity forum so the issues could be ironed out, then if a concensuous was reached between users of that forum, we could have taken it to the next stage if that was necessary. For you to win does't mean you have to force other people to loose, have you every heard of a win-win situation ? Preventing discussion of a legitimate topic is never a good idea. I hope you've learned something from the episode, and to moderate any anti Catholic trolling as well as just anti Christian trolling in the future.

This isn't a battle of wills. You guys broke the charter (spamming the same question again and again doesn't qualify as "civil questions") and received a short ban. That is it.

I'm sorry that Forum Requests was closed - at the time I wasn't aware that it was a dead end. After I learned that it was closed to requests then it seemed that you were out of luck. Happily you have now been given the opportunity to make your case before people who actually have the ability to grant your request. So go ahead and do it. I believe you sour your case with posts like above.

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Then you would have the respect of all sides and then requests for Catholic mods / forums would never arise.

Well that is never going to happen.

Quo Vadis

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

This isn't a battle of wills.

Glad you've worked that out.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

You guys broke the charter (spamming the same question again and again doesn't qualify as "civil questions") and received a short ban. That is it.

I'm sorry that Forum Requests was closed - at the time I wasn't aware that it was a dead end. After I learned that it was closed to requests then it seemed that you were out of luck.

Refusing to allow questions and then passing the buck was poor enough judgement, but refusing to allow any legitmate discussion about the matter on a dicussion board was the root cause of your mess. Allowing discussion would have worked the matter out. Hopefully you've learned something from it.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Happily you have now been given the opportunity to make your case before people who actually have the ability to grant your request. So go ahead and do it. I believe you sour your case with posts like above.

Make a case for why mods should treat anti Catholic and anti Christian trolling the same way on a Chrisian forum ? Hardly. That's boards.ie's problem and loss, not mine.

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Well that is never going to happen.

Not as long as you continue the same carry on. Do you really think your going to acomplish anything by driving away as many Catholic posters as possible to somewhere with better moderation ?

Beruthiel

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Hence the only means of anyone discussing the matter was for users to start another thread. You were only asked civil questions, and for a discussion of the matter. You should have parked your ego and at least allowed people to discuss the matter on the Christianity forum so the issues could be ironed out.

Quo Vadis, most forums on this site do not/will not allow that. So less of the aggressive tone please.
The Feedback forum is where you go if you feel the need. But at no stage do the Moderators of any forum need to deal with feedback in the actual forum.
This is why the Mods correctly closed the threads.

Could you also kindly take note of the fact that Moderators on this site do what they do for free, giving freely of their own time and running their forums in a way that is expected of them by the Admins.
If the Admins think that the forum should run in a different way, then that will be discussed with the Mods.

-Chris-

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Refusing to allow questions and then passing the buck was poor enough judgement, but refusing to allow any legitmate discussion about the matter on a dicussion board was the root cause of your mess. Allowing discussion would have worked the matter out. Hopefully you've learned something from it.

And yet, you seem to have learned nothing from it.

-It's not Fanny Craddock's decision whether an RC forum should or could be started.
-The correct place to discuss a forum request is in the Forum Requests forum.
-Posts requesting forum creation outside the Forum Requests forum are automatically off-topic.

You were discussing the topic in the wrong place. It's not that simple to understand.
Anyone who participated in the "civil disobedience" by starting multiple threads requesting the forum be created, deserved sanction.

Fanny Cradock

May I suggest there are two separate issues going on here - forum structure and my moderation decisions during the revolution.

Why don't you use the opportunity you have been given in this thread to argue for a separate forum or a moderator appointed on the basis of religion? That leaves you time to challenge my moderation decisions in the Dispute Resolution forum. If I can be shown the error of my ways -- i.e. that I acted inappropriately -- then I will hold my hands up and apologise.

Fanny Cradock

-Chris- wrote: »

You were discussing the topic in the wrong place. It's not that simple to understand.
Anyone who participated in the "civil disobedience" by starting multiple threads requesting the forum be created, deserved sanction.

That was my logic.

Keylem

Ask yourself the question, why there was a need to ask for a seperate forum/mod in the first place!!! :rolleyes:

Quo Vadis

Beruthiel wrote: »

Quo Vadis, most forums on this site do not/will not allow that. So less of the aggressive tone please.

It goes without saying you can allow the discussions that suit you. As for my tone, either you're trying to be condescending, or your trying to read or project an emotion into my posts. I'm not feeling aggressive in the slightest. Trying to guess or pretend otherwise is pointless and irrelevant, you'd be better to stick to the issue.

Beruthiel wrote: »

The Feedback forum is where you go if you feel the need. But at no stage do the Moderators of any forum need to deal with feedback in the actual forum.
This is why the Mods correctly closed the threads.

Could you also kindly take note of the fact that Moderators on this site do what they do for free, giving freely of their own time and running their forums in a way that is expected of them by the Admins.
If the Admins think that the forum should run in a different way, then that will be discussed with the Mods.

Allowing at least some sort of discussion on the Christian forum and then taking it to the feedback forum when some sort of consensus had been reached, or at least passing on posters queries to the correct parties instead of trying to belittle them, would have been a more sensible approach than trying shut down and censor any and all discussion of the matter. As for not paying your mods something for all their work and time out of your advertising profits, that's boards.ie's problem. The better the moderation, and their training, the more successful and sustainable your site will be in the long term.

I can discuss all these points further if you wish, or we can stick with the issue.

Insect Overlord

Quo Vadis wrote: »

...site will be in the long term.

Something tells me you won't be seeing much of that...

Quo Vadis

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

That leaves you time to challenge my moderation decisions in the Dispute Resolution forum. If I can be shown the error of my ways -- i.e. that I acted inappropriately -- then I will hold my hands up and apologise. If I can be shown the error of my ways -- i.e. that I acted inappropriately -- then I will hold my hands up and apologise.

That's a problem for your supervisors to sort out, not ordinary users.

Quo Vadis

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Something tells me you won't be seeing much of that...

Can you explain what you mean by that please ?

Fanny Cradock

Keylem wrote: »

Ask yourself the question, why there was a need to ask for a seperate forum/mod in the first place!!! :rolleyes:

Why would I ask that when I am not in agreement that there should be a separate forum or a mod appointed on the basis of denomination

My personal thoughts aside, all of you should be using the opportunity you have in this thread to make your case. All I'm seeing is moaning, special pleading and finger-pointing.

Make the case for a separate forum and why a Catholic mod should be appointed. (Note that I haven't even argued against such a thing). Leave the criticism of my moderation decisions to the DR forum.

Fanny Cradock

Quo Vadis wrote: »

That's a problem for your supervisors to sort out, not ordinary users.

Two points.

1) The DR forum is there for people who feel aggrieved about moderation decisions. You make the complaint and an impartial third party looks into it. People from DR don't actively trawl the forums to look for bad moding decisions.

2) If you actually believe it is a job for my "supervisors" then stop moaning about what went on in the forum.

randylonghorn

hinault wrote: »

Personally I don't think administrators or moderators should be allowed post as users once they're granted privileges.

Then we won't have moderators or admins, and the site will die.

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Refusing to allow questions and then passing the buck was poor enough judgement, but refusing to allow any legitmate discussion about the matter on a dicussion board was the root cause of your mess. Allowing discussion would have worked the matter out. Hopefully you've learned something from it.

From where I'm sitting, refusing to accept that this site has policies, structures and a set decision-making process (and certain areas of the site in which that happens) is the root cause of your mess. Working within established protocols would have at the very least prevented the flurry of bans which ensued, whether or not it meant you won your case for a separate sub-forum or not. Hopefully you have learned something from this mistake.

Quo Vadis

-Chris- wrote: »

And yet, you seem to have learned nothing from it.

-It's not Fanny Craddock's decision whether an RC forum should or could be started.
-The correct place to discuss a forum request is in the Forum Requests forum.
-Posts requesting forum creation outside the Forum Requests forum are automatically off-topic.

You were discussing the topic in the wrong place. It's not that simple to understand.
Anyone who participated in the "civil disobedience" by starting multiple threads requesting the forum be created, deserved sanction.

Mis-representing peoples arguments is what caused this issue in the first place. We were not allowed to discuss anything with our fellow Christians first to see what they thought or reach a consensus before taking it any further (if that was even necessary), or ask any further questions or advice, even after pointing out that we were continually being directed to a closed forum. I'm not sure what your involvement in this is, can you clarify it ?

Quo Vadis

Fanny Cradock wrote: »

Two points.

1) The DR forum is there for people who feel aggrieved about moderation decisions. You make the complaint and an impartial third party looks into it. People from DR don't actively trawl the forums to look for bad moding decisions.

2) If you actually believe it is a job for my "supervisors" then stop moaning about what went on in the forum.

Take it to the DR forum and sort it out with your supervisors there then instead of trying to divert the discussion here.

Quo Vadis

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Mis-representing peoples arguments is what caused this issue in the first place. We were not allowed to discuss anything with our fellow Christians first to see what they thought or reach a consensus before taking it any further (if that was even necessary), or ask any further questions or advice, even after pointing out that we were continually being directed to a closed forum. I'm not sure what your involvement in this is, can you clarify it ?

You weren't allowed to discuss it in the forum because it's a discussion that has no place in the forum. How hard is that to understand? If you wanted to talk about it, you could have taken it here: an open forum where everybody can respond.

Quo Vadis

Has anyone any relevant queries for me, rather than repeatedly trying to mis represent our argument ?

Insect Overlord

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Take it to the DR forum and sort it out with your supervisors there then instead of trying to divert the discussion here.

You really don't get this place at all.

Quo Vadis

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Has anyone any relevant queries for me, rather than the repeatedly trying to mis represent our argument ?

Why would anybody have queries for you?

People aren't here to query you. You're here with your friends to make your case for a Catholic sub-forum or a Catholic moderator for the regular Christianity forum.

Onesimus

I think this all seems to be a power struggle. Of the years I've spent posting and lurking on the Christianity forum I have found both PDN and Fanny Cradock to be fair enough in their moderation and have probably had one or two hick-ups with regards to their moderation but its that minor it wouldnt be worth mentioning.

With all of that taken into account. It is understandable that categories of forums such as astrology and science are all moderated by those well informed in that field. It seems only too fitting that our moderators of the Christianity forum should indeed be ''Christian''. It is possible taken into consideration the above demonstrated, that RC's are indeed numerous in this country and that someone well versed in that area should therefore be placed as a mod, it does seem worthy to mention dont you think?

But the way in which the posters expressed their opinions and getting banned all over the place was not the appropriate procedure for such a placement and it ruins it for those of us who enjoy posting and discussing Christian issues with our Orthodox and Protestant Christians.

Thanks to PDN and Fanny Craddock for their moderation of the forum itself. They really do do a decent job of it. But if us Catholics desire to be an RC mod is about usurping ''power'' as opposed to being of service to the forum and it's charter also then we really havnt a leg to stand on.

hinault

Beruthiel wrote: »

Quo Vadis, most forums on this site do not/will not allow that. So less of the aggressive tone please.
The Feedback forum is where you go if you feel the need. But at no stage do the Moderators of any forum need to deal with feedback in the actual forum.
This is why the Mods correctly closed the threads.

Could you also kindly take note of the fact that Moderators on this site do what they do for free, giving freely of their own time and running their forums in a way that is expected of them by the Admins.
If the Admins think that the forum should run in a different way, then that will be discussed with the Mods.

I've got to say your telling members here to be less aggressive is a tad rich.
Your direct replies to me yesterday smacked of aggression quite frankly.

We're all aware that the moderators do what they do free gratis.
We're also all aware that from time to time when disputes arise moderators do get the brunt of complaints made publicly or by private message.

The moderators on the Christianity forum took a view and acted in the way that they did.
The decision that the moderators took is disputed and their decision was referred to the Feedback forum and by way of direct contact with the site owners.

I think I can speak for my fellow RC members when I say that this issue ought to have been resolved quietly within the Christianity forum.

We're all members here Beruthiel and we should all be able to co-exist without
threats of bannings being bandied about.

Quo Vadis

Insect Overlord wrote: »

You really don't get this place at all.

On the contrary, I very much get what's going on.
That's the problem.

hinault

randylonghorn wrote: »

Then we won't have moderators or admins, and the site will die.

On the site where I moderate I never post as a user.

When I was conferred with admin capabilities I took the decision to stop posting as a regular contributor.

The reason?
One cannot be a moderator while being a user.
The demarcation is impossible to maintain and to be perfectly honest any user who likes to discuss topics cannot be impartial no matter how hard they try.

Insect Overlord

hinault wrote: »

One cannot be a moderator while being a user.
The demarcation is impossible to maintain and to be perfectly honest any user who likes to discuss topics cannot be impartial no matter how hard they try.

It's been working pretty nicely here for over 11 years.

hinault

Insect Overlord wrote: »

It's been working pretty nicely here for over 11 years.

I don't believe that for one second quite frankly.

dashboard_hula

hinault wrote: »

On the site where I moderate I never post as a user.

When I was conferred with admin capabilities I took the decision to stop posting as a regular contributor.

The reason?
One cannot be a moderator while being a user.
The demarcation is impossible to maintain and to be perfectly honest any user who likes to discuss topics cannot be impartial no matter how hard they try.

The lads here seem to be doing alright for the last 10 odd years....

Seeing as this is feedback:

1. I do not agree with the creation of a separate RC sub-forum. Roman Catholicism is part of the Christian religion, and there it should stay as regards the boards.ie sitemap.

2. The users who have spent the last 10 pages of this thread "arguing" for an RC subforum have not done their cause nor their brothers and sisters in the faith any favours whatsoever with their behaviour.

Quo Vadis

Onesimus wrote: »

I think this all seems to be a power struggle. Of the years I've spent posting and lurking on the Christianity forum I have found both PDN and Fanny Cradock to be fair enough in their moderation and have probably had one or two hick-ups with regards to their moderation but its that minor it wouldnt be worth mentioning.

With all of that taken into account. It is understandable that categories of forums such as astrology and science are all moderated by those well informed in that field. It seems only too fitting that our moderators of the Christianity forum should indeed be ''Christian''. It is possible taken into consideration the above demonstrated, that RC's are indeed numerous in this country and that someone well versed in that area should therefore be placed as a mod, it does seem worthy to mention dont you think?

But the way in which the posters expressed their opinions and getting banned all over the place was not the appropriate procedure for such a placement and it ruins it for those of us who enjoy posting and discussing Christian issues with our Orthodox and Protestant Christians.

Thanks to PDN and Fanny Craddock for their moderation of the forum itself. They really do do a decent job of it. But if us Catholics desire to be an RC mod is about usurping ''power'' as opposed to being of service to the forum and it's charter also then we really havnt a leg to stand on.

There would have been little or no requests or need for a Catholic forum if anti-Catholic trolling is dealt with in the same way anti-Christian trolling is. To AVOID making it about the current mods, some Catholic posters suggested a seperate Catholic forum / mod. I used boards.ie BECAUSE, unusually, it is one of the few sites where it is an ALL christian forum. Most other forums like to pretend Catholics are not Christian and deliberately seperate them, and I thought boards.ie would make a pleasant change. It's a good idea, badly exectuted and I'll be moving on to leave you to it.

Penn

hinault wrote: »

I think I can speak for my fellow RC members when I say that this issue ought to have been resolved quietly within the Christianity forum.

How so?

The creation of a sub-forum is for the Forum Requests forum, or failing that, Feedback.

Discussions about any moderator decisions is for Feedback, Help Desk or the Dispute Resolution Forum.

This topic should not have been discussed on the Christianity forum because that is not the proper place for that discussion.