Roman Catholic Subforum/Moderation

hinault

dashboard_hula wrote: »

The lads here seem to be doing alright for the last 10 odd years....

Seeing as this is feedback:

1. I do not agree with the creation of a separate RC sub-forum. Roman Catholicism is part of the Christian religion, and there it should stay as regards the boards.ie sitemap.

2. The users who have spent the last 10 pages of this thread "arguing" for an RC subforum have not done their cause nor their brothers and sisters in the faith any favours whatsoever with their behaviour.

I disagree entirely with your view that RC should be included within the Christianity label.
Hence my stance with regard to the subforum.

However given the replies in the last few days, I don't believe that we will get a RC subforum no matter how logical and reasonable our points are.

Is there some other way that a grouping can be formed for RC's outside of the Christianity forum?
I've been told that groupings can be formed but I'm not sure how this operates, if indeed it can operate?

Quo Vadis

Barrington wrote: »

How so?

The creation of a sub-forum is for the Forum Requests forum, or failing that, Feedback.

Discussions about any moderator decisions is for Feedback, Help Desk or the Dispute Resolution Forum.

This topic should not have been discussed on the Christianity forum because that is not the proper place for that discussion.

It never got that far, there was no discussion, just a repeated direction to go to a closed forum where no posts could be made.

Spear

hinault wrote: »

I've been told that groupings can be formed but I'm not sure how this operates, if indeed it can operate?

If you're referring to the social groups, you can see the options here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/group.php

That has the start a new group button too.

Overheal

Onesimus wrote: »

With all of that taken into account. It is understandable that categories of forums such as astrology and science are all moderated by those well informed in that field. It seems only too fitting that our moderators of the Christianity forum should indeed be ''Christian''. It is possible taken into consideration the above demonstrated, that RC's are indeed numerous in this country and that someone well versed in that area should therefore be placed as a mod, it does seem worthy to mention dont you think?

Thats a tad oversimplified. The politics mods are chosen because they are interested and well informed in the area of politics also, but not because of who they vote for or support. Similarly soccer mods are interested and informed, but neither do you see or need to see mod representatives of every major club. Similarly the Islam Mods are not chosen dependent on whether they are Sunni, Shi'a, or Salafi, etc.

hinault

Barrington wrote: »

How so?

The creation of a sub-forum is for the Forum Requests forum, or failing that, Feedback.

Discussions about any moderator decisions is for Feedback, Help Desk or the Dispute Resolution Forum.

This topic should not have been discussed on the Christianity forum because that is not the proper place for that discussion.

By allowing on thread to remain open on the Christianity forum to discuss this matter.
Instead of closing 8 threads when the topic was brought up.

FC will say that by closing the 8 threads that he/she was obeying the charter to the letter and banned several RC members.
That is his/her decision.

I think allowing one thread to remain open to discuss the matter would have diffused the entire situation.
Call it common sense over protocol

randylonghorn

hinault wrote: »

On the site where I moderate I never post as a user.

When I was conferred with admin capabilities I took the decision to stop posting as a regular contributor.

That's fair enough, that was your decision, and I have nothing but respect for it.

It doesn't make it the only possible decision, though.

hinault wrote: »

One cannot be a moderator while being a user.

Well, I've managed it for years, as have many other users here.

I'm not saying it's always easy, or that the two roles don't occasionally rub against one another, they do. But usually it just means taking a few minutes to sort out ones head and clarify for oneself where the boundaries are. Tbh, I usually find that its *others* who have difficulty distinguishing between the roles; I don't usually find it that difficult myself.

I can't comment on your site, hinault, it may be very different, but this place is *huge*, extremely diverse, and requires a huge number of people to service it. If Boards was to say to its mods: "You shalt not post as a user!" they simply would not get the numbers of people ... or the right people, or for the right reasons. What would be the incentive?

On a small, narrowly-focused site with a very committed user-group, possibly.

Quo Vadis

hinault wrote: »

I think allowing one thread to remain open to discuss the matter would have diffused the situation.
Call it common sense.

Instead the mod tried to ensure the issue would go no further by continuley directing us to the wrong forum, which was also closed to posts. Then he tried to make out eight different posters were the problem instead of his attitude.

Penn

hinault wrote: »

By allowing on thread to remain open on the Christianity forum to discuss this matter.
Instead of closing 8 threads when the topic was brought up.

FC will say that by closing the 8 threads that he/she was obeying the charter to the letter and banned several RC members.
That is his/her decision.

I think allowing one thread to remain open to discuss the matter would have diffused the entire situation.
Call it common sense over protocol

But again, what would have been accomplished? The mods of the Christianity Forum could not create a sub-forum, even if everyone wanted one. Only the Admins can. A discussion on the Christianity forum would have accomplished nothing. The protocol is there for a reason.

hinault

randylonghorn wrote: »

That's fair enough, that was your decision, and I have nothing but respect for it.

It doesn't make it the only possible decision, though.

Well, I've managed it for years, as have many other users here.

I'm not saying it's always easy, or that the two roles don't occasionally rub against one another, they do. But usually it just means taking a few minutes to sort out ones head and clarify for oneself where the boundaries are. Tbh, I usually find that its *others* who have difficulty distinguishing between the roles; I don't usually find it that difficult myself.

I can't comment on your site, hinault, it may be very different, but this place is *huge*, extremely diverse, and requires a huge number of people to service it. If Boards was to say to its mods: "You shalt not post as a user!" they simply would not get the numbers of people ... or the right people, or for the right reasons. What would be the incentive?

On a small, narrowly-focused site with a very committed user-group, possibly.

Fair play to you if you can remain impartial. Personally as someone who likes to engage with members and discuss issues, I couldn't be both a user and a moderator. That demarcation is impossible to maintain I think.

For the record the site I moderate is an international website with 12,000+ active members.

Quo Vadis

The admin of Boards.ie were caught out, closed ranks and are now trying to pretend there is no problem.
At least they didn't get away with hiding it this time.

Overheal

hinault wrote: »

I disagree entirely with your view that RC should be included within the Christianity label.
Hence my stance with regard to the subforum.

Why? Roman Catholicism is still Christianity, isn't it?

dashboard_hula

hinault wrote: »

I disagree entirely with your view that RC should be included within the Christianity label.
Hence my stance with regard to the subforum.

However given the replies in the last few days, I don't believe that we will get a RC subforum no matter how logical and reasonable our points are.

Is there some other way that a grouping can be formed for RC's outside of the Christianity forum?
I've been told that groupings can be formed but I'm not sure how this operates, if indeed it can operate?

Social Group? I believe that this was suggested the last time the forum request was rejected, if my lurking serves me right.

Also, with respect, I don't feel that the points were brought up in a "logical and reasonable" way. I do very little on boards except lurk and read and occasionally post, and yet I have winced every time I have seen some users on this thread respond to moderators/admins and other users with decades of experience with rudeness and disrespect.

lmaopml

It can hinault. I'll find a link and post it here..

It's a pity that this happened really. Nobody wins, and it's a free for all...:(

I think perhaps we should report posts that are inciteful or blatantly trolling instead of responding to them or waiting for the mods to act and see every hostile comment that detracts from useful discussion. If they 'over' did giving warnings it could stifle discussion, but at least a short pm would flag them about posts that are overtly or even covertly inciteful....

I myself am shy about reporting posts as I feel it's in some way sneaky or something, don't ask me why....but I do, I've never reported a poster ever. Imo, the best thing to do is ignore anybody constantly grinding the same axe, most anybody worth talking with can see them a mile off anyway, or report to the mods so that appropriate action can be taken, and at least it's out in the open and they can deal with it....and it doesn't come as a surprise.

There is such a mix of us all garbled in together - it's a great exercise to take part in too, sweaty at times, but nonetheless unique. Almost everywhere else on the web we're seperated into various 'areas', or indeed different web sites all together. The Christianity forum is an eyeopener and also a trial at times, but it's unique too..lol..but it's always interesting it's such a mixed bag.

I think the 'group' thing is a good idea for us Catholics to get to know eachother better though without all the noise?

hinault

Barrington wrote: »

But again, what would have been accomplished? The mods of the Christianity Forum could not create a sub-forum, even if everyone wanted one. Only the Admins can. A discussion on the Christianity forum would have accomplished nothing. The protocol is there for a reason.

So closing off all discussion of the topic and banning well respected members was the better decision?
Having the decisions of the moderators forensically discussed since those banning and thread closures, is better than leaving one thread open?
Having a number of well respected members leaving Boards is better?

If you think that decision is better fine. Personally I think one thread in which to ventilate views would have been the better, more pragmatic decision.

Overheal

hinault wrote: »

Personally I think one thread in which to ventilate views would have been the better, more pragmatic decision.

Well here you have it...

Insect Overlord

Quo Vadis wrote: »

It's a good idea, badly exectuted and I'll be moving on to leave you to it.

Quo Vadis wrote: »

It never got that far, there was no discussion, just a repeated direction to go to a closed forum where no posts could be made.

Quo Vadis wrote: »

Instead the mod tried to ensure the issue would go no further by continuley directing us to the wrong forum, which was also closed to posts. Then he tried to make out eight different posters were the problem instead of his attitude.

Quo Vadis wrote: »

The admin of Boards.ie were caught out, closed ranks and are now trying to pretend there is no problem.
At least they didn't get away with hiding it this time.

Good to see you're a man of your word.

Cum vadis?

Quo Vadis

lmaopml wrote: »

It can hinault. I'll find a link and post it here..

It's a pity that this happened really. Nobody wins, and it's a free for all...:(

I think perhaps we should report posts that are inciteful or blatantly trolling instead of responding to them or waiting for the mods to act and see every hostile comment that detracts from useful discussion. If they 'over' did giving warnings it could stifle discussion, but at least a short pm would flag them about posts that are overtly or even covertly inciteful....

I myself am shy about reporting posts as I feel it's in some way sneaky or something, don't ask me why....but I do, I've never reported a poster ever. Imo, the best thing to do is ignore anybody constantly grinding the same axe, most anybody worth talking with can see them a mile off anyway, or report to the mods so that appropriate action can be taken, and at least it's out in the open and they can deal with it....and it doesn't come as a surprise.

There is such a mix of us all garbled in together - it's a great exercise to take part in too, sweaty at times, but nonetheless unique. Almost everywhere else on the web we're seperated into various 'areas', or indeed different web sites all together. The Christianity forum is an eyeopener and also a trial at times, but it's unique too..lol..but it's always interesting it's such a mixed bag.

I think the 'group' thing is a good idea for us Catholics to get to know eachother better though without all the noise?

The forum was overun with anti Catholic trollling, while anti-Christian trolling is dealt with very swifty (fair play). The trolls also worked this out. If every single anti-Catholic trolling post was reported, the mods would have been overun. We all tried for a very long time to ignore the trolling as you suggest, but that did'nt work either.

Overheal

Quo Vadis wrote: »

The forum was overun with anti Catholic trollling, while anti-Christian trolling is dealt with very swifty (fair play). The trolls also worked this out. If every single anti-Catholic trolling post was reported, the mods would have been overun. We all tried for a very long time to ignore the trolling as you suggest, but that did'nt work either.

Do you have any examples of this?

randylonghorn

hinault wrote: »

I disagree entirely with your view that RC should be included within the Christianity label.

Roman Catholics are no longer Christians?

I have the pleasure of numbering many Roman Catholics including indeed a couple of Bishops among my acquaintances who would respectfully disagree.

Surely you didn't mean quite what you wrote there?


On the broader issue, while I wouldn't be jumping up or down in opposition to this idea, I wouldn't be a supporter of a separate forum either ... for all sorts of reasons, but the main one I illustrated by telling a little story from my personal history in the original thread.

Quo Vadis wrote: »

The admin of Boards.ie were caught out ...

How?

Quo Vadis wrote: »

... closed ranks ...

How?

Quo Vadis wrote: »

... and are now trying to pretend there is no problem.

How?

Quo Vadis wrote: »

At least they didn't get away with hiding it this time.

Hiding what?


As far as I can see, the only error made was that one individual mod wasn't aware that the New Forums forum was temporarily closed.

It is temporarily closed because a policy decision was made that no new forums would be approved for the moment.

Yet, despite that decision, you have been allowed to make your case here.

Indeed, a clear case of religious persecution! The days of the Penal laws have returned to our shores!

Quo Vadis

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Cum vadis?

Whenever I feel like it.

hinault

Overheal wrote: »

Do you have any examples of this?

If you review the Christianity forum, you will see that one thread created by PDN
where he refers to deliberate trolling from both sides of the theological divide, it must be added.
This is only one of many examples where threads had been deliberately derailed.

I've referred to this earlier on page 5 I think in this thread with a link.

Quo Vadis

Overheal wrote: »

Do you have any examples of this?

Far too numerous to deal with each one here, how do you think it got this far ?
Pick any thread and you'll find examples.
You'll have to find your own anyway, as I've been banned from the Christianity forum for trying to highlight this.

Orim

randylonghorn wrote: »

On the broader issue, while I wouldn't be jumping up or down in opposition to this idea, I wouldn't be a supporter of a separate forum either ... for all sorts of reasons, but the main one I illustrated by telling a little story from my personal history in the original thread.

Still strikes me a wonderful story Randy. Makes me want to make WWAD (What Would Aggie Do?) bracelet. I do love old posts.

Also I see mention of groups. So I'll just put this here, again.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/group.php?

hinault

randylonghorn wrote: »

Roman Catholics are no longer Christians?

I have the pleasure of numbering many Roman Catholics including indeed a couple of Bishops among my acquaintances who would respectfully disagree.

Surely you didn't mean quite what you wrote there?

I do actually mean it.

I adhere to the RC faith.
I don't refer to myself as Christian. I'm Roman Catholic.

Christianity is meaningless I would contend.

randylonghorn

I would contend that Christ might disagree.

dashboard_hula

hinault wrote: »

I do actually mean it.

I adhere to the RC faith.
I don't refer to myself as Christian. I'm Roman Catholic.

Christianity is meaningless I would contend.

Chris·ti·an·i·ty
   [kris-chee-an-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
1.
the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches.

Edited to add - seriously, the clue's in the name. I have not seen any description, definition or discussion of Roman Catholicism which does not define it as part of Christianity, and to suggest otherwise is to put yourself squarely in a very small minority. So seeing as I have been baptised RC, attended Mass, described myself as RC-raised, why on earth would I support the setting up of a subforum in which you don't even acknowledge the roots of the religion?

hinault

randylonghorn wrote: »

I would contend that Christ might disagree.

And that is your prerogative.

I can only speak for myself as a member of the RC church.

lmaopml

Quo Vadis wrote: »

The forum was overun with anti Catholic trollling, while anti-Christian trolling is dealt with very swifty (fair play). The trolls also worked this out. If every single anti-Catholic trolling post was reported, the mods would have been overun. We all tried for a very long time to ignore the trolling as you suggest, but that did'nt work either.

Ok, I'll leave it there Quo Vadis. I would be regular enough on the forum, but only sporadically since I joined boards, I'm not an every single day poster or lurker, so perhaps not the best commentator either..:o

hinault

dashboard_hula wrote: »

Chris·ti·an·i·ty
   [kris-chee-an-i-tee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -ties.
1.
the Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox churches.

I'm not a member of the Protestant denominations or the Eastern Orthodox church.
I'm a member of the Roman Catholic church.

randylonghorn

hinault wrote: »

And that is your prerogative.

As it is indeed yours to have your own opinion.

hinault wrote: »

I can only speak for myself as a member of the RC church.

I am, however, glad that you stressed that you were speaking as an individual member of the church rather than purporting to represent the views of the church.