"Leap" - Dublin's New Integrated Ticketing Name!

LXFlyer

johnmcdnl wrote: »

would someone mind explaining how this system is going to actually work..

The ins and outs of how the card will work have yet to be explained but basically it will be a single card valid on Dublin Bus, LUAS and Irish Rail. It will be capable of holding a period pass (weekly, monthly etc) and/or an epurse which you can use on individual trips.

For use on Irish Rail and LUAS you will tag on at the start of your trip and tag off at the end.

What we don't know yet includes:
- How it will be used on Dublin Bus (tag on / tag on and off / driver interaction?)
- What will be the fare structure on Dublin Bus - flat/zonal/staged
- Whether there will be a daily or weekly cap on the amount you pay using the purse (in London the maximum charge in a day is 50p less than the price of the appropriate 1 day travelcard).
- What level of discount will apply for using the card over cash
- How journeys involving several buses or multiple-modes will be priced

I'm sure we will hear well in advance later in the summer as the implementation date approaches.

goingnowhere

Seems no one knows what Dublin Bus will do, even those who are testing the card

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=13237

bk

MYOB wrote: »

BOI Lasers (as Maestro) work across Europe, except the UK where its patchy as hell due to bad software in readers that balks at 19 digit card numbers. I've used mine extensively in Belgium and Holland for everything from petrol to transport tickets to hotels.

Laser only works in Ireland.

Laser cards usually also have Maestro facility on them, but Maestro is actually a completely different application on the same card.

Maestro works across the EU, but patchy in the UK and doesn't work online for Irish users.

Visa Debit and Mastercard Debit are much better, they work across the world (anywhere that takes Visa or Mastercard Credit cards) and also work online across the world.

The sooner Maestro/Laser is dumped, the better.

MYOB wrote: »

This is Laser we're talking about, never is truth.

You are correct Laser will never get contact less cards, as Laser will be dead and gone 2 years from now.

However Visa/Mastercard Credit/Debit cards will certainly get it (they already do abroad).

However I agree that they should be focusing on Leap cards first. However I hope they are keeping in mind the contact less credit cards and mobile phones are coming soon and have made the gear and back end systems easily and cheaply compatible with them.

markpb

goingnowhere wrote: »

Seems no one knows what Dublin Bus will do, even those who are testing the card

http://www.railusers.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=13237

The card tested by RUI members two months ago was pre-loaded with an annual bus and Luas ticket, not an ePurse so they won't be aware of the full working of the card.

Reasonably we can't expect any changes from stage to zone or anything like that, at least not at the start of the scheme. This is Ireland, we don't do major re-architecting like that. The card will likely have the same selection of tickets that currently exist plus a purse which, as lxfyer said, should have some type of daily capping.

monument

markpb wrote: »

The card tested by RUI members two months ago was pre-loaded with an annual bus and Luas ticket, not an ePurse so they won't be aware of the full working of the card.

Reasonably we can't expect any changes from stage to zone or anything like that, at least not at the start of the scheme. This is Ireland, we don't do major re-architecting like that. The card will likely have the same selection of tickets that currently exist plus a purse which, as lxfyer said, should have some type of daily capping.

Reasonably, we should be expecting zones to be added with the launch of the cards, but, as you said, this is Ireland.

MadsL

MYOB wrote: »

BOI Lasers (as Maestro) work across Europe, except the UK where its patchy as hell due to bad software in readers that balks at 19 digit card numbers. I've used mine extensively in Belgium and Holland for everything from petrol to transport tickets to hotels.




This is Laser we're talking about, never is truth.

Thank you, I have trying for years to find out why the hell the UK was such a PITA for Laser. I'd heard lack of software updates, but had Laser declined in a fancy new place with shiny wireless card readers

Only ever the UK thats a problem - including Stansted duty free which is also a complete pain.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Well,Stinicker...yes and no....:)

However you do raise a somewhat pertinent point as to how the Tourist Transport market is catered for presently.

Three times in the past week,in the same geographical area,I have encountered Foreign Visitors attempting to use a particular type of "Dublin" Ticket on ordinary Bus Services.

This ticket is "The Dublin Pass" and is marketed through this site.....

http://www.dublinpass.ie/dublinpass/default.asp?refID=

In it's adult form it costs €65 for a 3 Day "pass" and at first glance appears to be a comprehensive "Dublin" pass indeed....BUT ...BUT !!....it does NOT INCLUDE Bus Travel in the City,whilst it does include the Aircoach from/to the Airport.

The folks I encountered had all been marketed this "Pass" as an all-inclusive one which "Took care of everything" on their visit.

All of the holders I encountered were adamant that they had been sold the ticket as a "Bus" transport ticket.

This aside I feel the Dublin Bus 3 Day (72 Hour) Freedom Ticket offers most visitors a very good deal indeed with Airlink-City Tour,and Scheduled Services all covered for €26 per adult (€24.50 if purchased through the DublinPass website !)

I would suggest that the Dublin Bus offering of itself,would more than satisfy most short-stay visitors in Public Transport terms.

That said,I would have reservations concerning the marketing of the Dublin-Pass item itself as I feel it is far to easy for visitors to be suggestively-sold something which in-effect is a totally different product to what the customers THINKS they are purchasing.

From that website they do have an option whereby one can purchase a 3day "freedom"pass for bus travel in conjunction with the Dublin pass but this will add a further €24.50 to the hefty €65 cost of the Dublin pass, also the website claims free entry to some museums in the city with the Dublin pass, which afaik were free admission anyway.

AngryLips

I like the name but I think it's a shame they didn't stick with the aquatic theme set by London's Oyster and HK's Octopus cards. The beached whale card or some such depending on whether this turns out just to be an e-purse or an actual 'smart' card.

penexpers

bk wrote: »

Laser is definitely on the way out, both AIB and BOI are replacing it with Visa/Mastercard Debit Cards that work across europe and online.

AIB are not replacing their Laser cards yet.

bk

penexpers wrote: »

AIB are not replacing their Laser cards yet.

They have already replaced them with Visa Debit Cards in Northern Ireland and they are preparing to do the same here.

They dropped the name Laser card in all their websites and brochures about a year ago, calling them AIB Debit cards instead, obviously preparing for the transition.

Also interestingly EBS who AIB just took over recently launched MasterCard Debit cards.

Aard

AngryLips wrote: »

I like the name but I think it's a shame they didn't stick with the aquatic theme set by London's Oyster and HK's Octopus cards. The beached whale card or some such depending on whether this turns out just to be an e-purse or an actual 'smart' card.

It is aquatic, or at the very least amphibian.

strassenwo!f

AngryLips wrote: »

I like the name but I think it's a shame they didn't stick with the aquatic theme set by London's Oyster and HK's Octopus cards. The beached whale card or some such depending on whether this turns out just to be an e-purse or an actual 'smart' card.

The aquatic theme has been done. So yesterday.

I'd imagine they're planning a big marketing campaign for when it actually happens, and 2012 will become the "LEAP year". (a few leap years too late, of course, and with many millions of euro having been squandered on this project in the interim).:(

Transportuser09

I don't think the aquatic theme is necessary anyway, unless it was a inter European theme, otherwise no need to copy everything the British do.

dowlingm

The biggest problem with Leap is that DB and LUAS retain their own fares. DTA (yes, DTA) should have taken over responsibility for ticketing/fares with DB and RPA paid to operate service levels via a contract where they would get paid for the service not the numbers using it, and a profit share where their operations and practices kept fare evasion below an agreed level. It would then be easy to extend this model to the private companies like Aircoach because they wouldn't be contending with DB/LUAS to impose yet another fare tier, they would simply be adopting whatever DTA wanted since they would be paid no matter what.

DART/Suburban is a bit trickier but I'm sure the likes of London have worked it out.

In Toronto we're rolling out Presto across a number of different transit systems, and the cards will also work in Ottawa which is like LEAP being usable in Cork. The nice thing is that instead of monthly passes there will be caps a statement of which should then be able to be applied against your tax return for multiple transit systems rather than keeping track of two or more physical passes and payment receipts as at present (we claim our passes at the time of tax return, there's no employer involvement as in Ireland)

etchyed

Transportuser09 wrote: »

I don't think the aquatic theme is necessary anyway...

It was a joke.

...unless it was a inter European theme...

I know you're speaking in the hypothetical here, but have you actually dreamed up a scenario where every country in Europe would coordinate to name its public transport ticketing system after a sea creature?

...otherwise no need to copy everything the British do.

Really? This old chestnut, again? Nobody was seriously suggesting that Ireland should do so.

And even within the joke, AngryLips pointed out that it was Hong Kong that started it anyway.

Amazing how much nonsense you've managed to cram into such a short post.

monument

The aquatic theme is continued in a way...

Teddy455

naming after a village in West Cork.

Carawaystick

The register had some stuff recently about using contactless credit/debit cards with Oyster. One of the key design points was the time to authorise a transaction had to be less than 0.375 sec, to prevent disrupting the flow of passengers entering or exiting the tube.

Have the NTA published a spec on the max time for the integrated ticketing system here?

I doubt it.

the MTA in New York City have a `not break your stride' requirement on their subway tickets. Here IÉ introduced a slower ticketing system....If you don't break your stride the gate will not open.... until you step backwards.

foggy_lad

Carawaystick wrote: »

The register had some stuff recently about using contactless credit/debit cards with Oyster. One of the key design points was the time to authorise a transaction had to be less than 0.375 sec, to prevent disrupting the flow of passengers entering or exiting the tube.

Have the NTA published a spec on the max time for the integrated ticketing system here?

I doubt it.

the MTA in New York City have a `not break your stride' requirement on their subway tickets. Here IÉ introduced a slower ticketing system....If you don't break your stride the gate will not open.... until you step backwards.

That is irish transport all over! One step forward and Two steps back!

I can see this new ticketing venture joining the E-voting machines at the bottom of the wheelie bin before the end of it's first year of operation:(

markpb

Carawaystick wrote: »

Have the NTA published a spec on the max time for the integrated ticketing system here?

They told RUI a long time ago that it was part of the design requirements and something they were working to improve after the first pilot.

Did TfL publish stats on their system before it was introduced? Did any other city? This is just needless pessimism. At least one of the companies involved already run the transit card in their own city and have consulted on transit cards in cities all over the world so they probably have a good idea how it works and what the requirements are.

foggy_lad wrote: »

That is irish transport all over! One step forward and Two steps back! I can see this new ticketing venture joining the E-voting machines at the bottom of the wheelie bin before the end of it's first year of operation:(

WTF!? What exactly have the RPA/NTA done wrong that you can criticise already? I'm guessing that you have close to zero knowledge about the project, the technology or it's current state and yet you can condemn it to the bin before it's even launched.

If you complained about the amount of time it's taken or the ridiculous cost and time over-runs, that would be fair game but criticising something you (and almost no-one else) have no experience of is pessimism gone too far.

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

Did TfL publish stats on their system before it was introduced? Did any other city? This is just needless pessimism. ......


WTF!? What exactly have the RPA/NTA done wrong that you can criticise already? I'm guessing that you have close to zero knowledge about the project, the technology or it's current state and yet you can condemn it to the bin before it's even launched.....

If you complained about the amount of time it's taken or the ridiculous cost and time over-runs, that would be fair game but criticising something you (and almost no-one else) have no experience of is pessimism gone too far.

Markpb,Foggy_Lad is,perhaps,just one of life's "Glass Half-Empty" people.....however in the midst of a significant body of negatively tinted work he does have some points worth making....:)

From my own perspective as somebody who will be,on the other side of the counter,my concerns focus on the significant peoblem Dublin Bus has with it's current reliance upon cash-fare collection and all that comes with it.

I am,to be honest,aghast,that at this late stage the largest,most intensively used operator appears still unaware of the exact methodology which the "Contactless Era" will utilize.

This project is probably the most significant event since William Dargan pored over a map of the Dublin to Kingstown area and decided to link them.

We have an opportunity now to totally alter the Public Transport experience in Dublin and if we are honest this opportunity cannot be half-taken...it MUST be grasped fully and used to it's fullest.

My fear is the age-old "Traditional" issues relating to Public Transport operation and funding will be allowed to dilute the true value of the Contactless Technology we have spent so much money on accquiring.

Carawaystick

markpb wrote: »

They told RUI a long time ago that it was part of the design requirements and something they were working to improve after the first pilot.

Did TfL publish stats on their system before it was introduced? Did any other city? This is just needless pessimism. At least one of the companies involved already run the transit card in their own city and have consulted on transit cards in cities all over the world so they probably have a good idea how it works and what the requirements are.



WTF!? What exactly have the RPA/NTA done wrong that you can criticise already? I'm guessing that you have close to zero knowledge about the project, the technology or it's current state and yet you can condemn it to the bin before it's even launched.

TFL did exactly that, the contactless banking card people were told they had a spec to meet to do all their backend stuff and get the turnstile open in a certain time to avoid holding up passengers.

Where have the rpa published the key specs regarding the end goal of the project of ``integrated'' ticketing?

Ah, but the nta are dealing with public transport in the ``greater'' Dublin area so will be implementing the its on such high density routes as the country bus from Carnew to Tinahely...

The pessimism about the rpa might stem from the fact since they were trying to introduce the integrated ticketing system they have on two occasions introduced non-integrated ticketing. The original luas smartcard is non-integrated and they introduced a non-compatable smartcard system with Morton's then also. The luas card doesn't have any capping. the rpa are also unable to credit a balance on a lost registered smartcard to a replacement card, but post out a cheque and a new card separately

This year I have the pleasure of getting two separate cards for my Dublin bus and Irish rail annual ticket. Before the integrated ticketing system kicked in, I had only one ticket that worked on trains and busses.....

Solair

Any chance this could be rolled out in Cork too for busses + commuter rail?

It's a pain in the rear end waiting behind city busses as people root for change!

There should be cashless payment on all urban busses in this day and age.

In fact, most cities Cork's size in Europe have smart-card payment in my experience.

bk

Solair wrote: »

Any chance this could be rolled out in Cork too for busses + commuter rail?

Yes, I believe the plan for Leap is to extend it to all public transport across Ireland eventually.

AlekSmart

Carawaystick wrote: »

TFL did exactly that, the contactless banking card people were told they had a spec to meet to do all their backend stuff and get the turnstile open in a certain time to avoid holding up passengers.....

The pessimism about the rpa might stem from the fact since they were trying to introduce the integrated ticketing system they have on two occasions introduced non-integrated ticketing. The original luas smartcard is non-integrated and they introduced a non-compatable smartcard system with Morton's then also. The luas card doesn't have any capping. the rpa are also unable to credit a balance on a lost registered smartcard to a replacement card, but post out a cheque and a new card separately

This year I have the pleasure of getting two separate cards for my Dublin bus and Irish rail annual ticket. Before the integrated ticketing system kicked in, I had only one ticket that worked on trains and busses.....

The Carawaystick experience is just far too basic a Fail to be acceptable.

I believe a fundamental and deliberate error was made in the planning for this Integrated Ticket system.

When I first read the small print on the RPA's initial smart-card PR stuff I could scarcely believe what was printed.

....This multi-million euro agency was to oversee the introduction and implimentation of a number of contactless products from various providers and then,at some future point as yet undecided,it would oversee the "integration" of these various products.

It sounded decidedly unprofessional and lime back then.....and time has not made this somewhat incredible notion any more credible.

It seems to me,that the various "Quango" like agencies were merely reflecting and perhaps magnifying the Dept of Transport's wild-eyed fixation with the "Dominant Position" of Dublin Bus in the market.

This translated into making sure that Dublin Bus did not get to play too great a role in the overall plan,all quite sensible,until one realizes that DB had and still has the largest passenger numbers,and therefore potential Smart-Card users in the country.

In attempting to restrict the tide of Dublin Bus's plans for smartcard implimentation the ITIB and the RPA have I feel seriously undermined the entire Integrated Ticketing principle.

Whats really scary however,is the sheer lack of appreciation of the opportunities now within our grasp as a CITY.....All we can do now is hold our collective breath !!!

foggy_lad

bk wrote: »

Yes, I believe the plan for Leap is to extend it to all public transport across Ireland eventually.

Only in city areas surely? Who is going to top up a card with the cost of a number of intercity rail journeys?

Solair

bk wrote: »

Yes, I believe the plan for Leap is to extend it to all public transport across Ireland eventually.

It should be rolled out in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway simultaneously to get the economies of scale with any major order from a supplier.

The same companies are involved in all of those areas i.e. CIE !

bk

foggy_lad wrote: »

Only in city areas surely? Who is going to top up a card with the cost of a number of intercity rail journeys?

Well the leap card could hold monthly and annual intercity tax saver tickets.

I also assume it will eventually be used for social welfare pass holders on all routes.

Possibly it could also be used to hold a single journey ticket, the could potentially use multiple modes of transport.

For example, you go online, and select a ticket from Cork to Clontarf Road, using Luas in between. You enter your leap card number (if not already registered to your account) and the ticket is automatically added to your leap card. You now use your leap card at each part of the journey.

Yes, it probably doesn't make much sense to use Leap card e-purse for intercity travel, but Leap card should certainly be compatible with all intercity travel and you should be able to buy and add tickets to your leap card at the leap website.

In this case it has less to do about ticketing and more about a single, brand, card and website for people to go to for all their public transport needs.

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

I also assume it will eventually be used for social welfare pass holders on all routes.
.

My understanding bk,is that LEAP will NOT be utilized by the DSP for it's Free Travel Scheme participants.

It appears the DSP's intentions are to utilize the new chipped National DSP ID Card for it's Public Transport funding.

It also needs to be remembered that the DSP and before them the DFSA and even further back the DSW had been a major source of delay to the greater IT project due to their prevarication on becoming involved in the scheme.

AS the largest single Public Transport users group in the State the DSP could (should) have been at the forefront of this scheme but for their own reasons chose to sit and think instead.

The entire issue of DSP Free Travel Scheme funding is very opaque indeed.

Using the LEAP card itself would have allowed the DSP to restructure the scheme into a direct allowance or set number of journeys with the added benefit of being anonymous to the general public.

Instead we appear to be prevailing with ensuring the DSP's customers use their Free Pass to broadcast their status for all to see.

Seems like another missed opportunity to me ??

Solair

The DSP already issues smartcards to people who wish to use Translink services in Northern Ireland.

I don't really see why a DSP Leap card couldn't be issued. It would save a hell of a lot of accounting for CIE companies, Luas and any future public transit operators that might emerge in the future.

AlekSmart

Solair wrote: »

The DSP already issues smartcards to people who wish to use Translink services in Northern Ireland.

I don't really see why a DSP Leap card couldn't be issued. It would save a hell of a lot of accounting for CIE companies, Luas and any future public transit operators that might emerge in the future.

Interesting point here Solair....

The DSP don't actually issue the NI Senior Citizens Smartpass.

The NI Scheme is administered by Translink on behalf of the Dept for Regional Development (NI).

However it is becoming a very popular item down sarf now as many Southerners who now hold the Dual DSP/Translink passes have ditched the DSP's own unweildy "Corn-Flake Box" piece of card and now insist on using the chipped credit card item supplied by Her Majesty's Government Agency.....speaks volumes about where this Republic currently stands I feel...:rolleyes:

The NI SmartPass is not valid for travel in the Republic if presented by a RoI Resident...but sure whenever did oul rules like that bother us ?

Solair

I know in a lot of Spanish cities they successfully rolled out simple virtual purse cards, "Monedero" (Wallet) which can be used on public transport and for micropayment.

They just offer you huge reductions on Monedero transactions as opposed to cash based payment.

E.g. in Pamplona the Monedero fee was 58 cent and €1.15 for a cash payment.

OAPs had a nominal charge of 15 cent per journey, but they had to pay by card.

Quite a lot of bank cards had the Monedero facility built into them, so you could re-load your card at any ATM just like withdrawing cash, except that the card's internal chip was just reloaded. Then just bang your wallet on the reader in the bus. Or, you could just buy (anonymously) a reloadable card and just top it up in any local (Estanco) tobacconist's and other stores that had the facility.

The big advantage is the speed of boarding the bus. Everyone just walks on and payment takes about 1 second vs the usual mess in Dublin with coins and even worse in Cork where they give change and people regularly pay with a fiver!
Combine that with Cork's narrow streets and you have a traffic jam behind the bus.

bk

AlekSmart wrote: »

My understanding bk,is that LEAP will NOT be utilized by the DSP for it's Free Travel Scheme participants.

It appears the DSP's intentions are to utilize the new chipped National DSP ID Card for it's Public Transport funding.

Yes, the DSP will have their own card, but I assume they will actually use the Leap infrastructure behind the scenes.

In other words, the DSP pass will have just be a variant of the Leap card.

I actually prefer this. If the DSP just used normal Leap cards, then it would be open to massive abuse. Someone could just give their leap card loaded with a DSP pass to their friend to use.

At least by using a DSP pass, with ID on it, it should be easy for the bus driver/ticket inspector to check that the person using the DSP pass is the rightful holder of the pass, thus cutting down on fraudulent usage.

Carawaystick

bk wrote: »

Yes, the DSP will have their own card, but I assume they will actually use the Leap infrastructure behind the scenes.

You must be new here...


How would a social welfare pass be more open to abuse than an annual ticket or a card capped to an annual ticket level?

AlekSmart

bk wrote: »

Yes, the DSP will have their own card, but I assume they will actually use the Leap infrastructure behind the scenes.

In other words, the DSP pass will have just be a variant of the Leap card.

I actually prefer this. If the DSP just used normal Leap cards, then it would be open to massive abuse. Someone could just give their leap card loaded with a DSP pass to their friend to use.

At least by using a DSP pass, with ID on it, it should be easy for the bus driver/ticket inspector to check that the person using the DSP pass is the rightful holder of the pass, thus cutting down on fraudulent usage.

Im unsure bk if this will be the case.....the DSP Card as unveiled by Dev Óg is in fact the dedicated DSP specific card with the Free Travel entitlement (in VERY small letters) on the face of it.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/new-public-service-card-to-crack-down-on-welfare-fraud-2467197.html

I'm not agin this..In fact the roll out of this card cannot happen quickly enough for me.
This Card should have been the very first element of the contactless card programme to be implimented rather than being tacked-on to the already drawn out situation we now are mired deep within.

The level of DSP Free Travel Scheme abuse/misuse/fraud is long out of control here and has now reached levels that make a totally fresh start a necessity.

Van.Bosch

Got my new annual bus and rail smart card today. It's separate, one for rail and one for bus. I thought it was a wind up. I know I had read this somewhere before but how in the name of god can these two companies within the same company not have one ticket? The old one worked on both systems so in a way we're actually regressing

liamog

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Got my new annual bus and rail smart card today. It's separate, one for rail and one for bus. I thought it was a wind up. I know I had read this somewhere before but how in the name of god can these two companies within the same company not have one ticket? The old one worked on both systems so in a way we're actually regressing

It's been like this for a while (maybe August last year). At least it's 2 smart cards now and not like the monthly ticket that breaks all the time due to the number of reads.

LXFlyer

liamog wrote: »

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Got my new annual bus and rail smart card today. It's separate, one for rail and one for bus. I thought it was a wind up. I know I had read this somewhere before but how in the name of god can these two companies within the same company not have one ticket? The old one worked on both systems so in a way we're actually regressing

It's been like this for a while (maybe August last year). At least it's 2 smart cards now and not like the monthly ticket that breaks all the time due to the number of reads.

That's exactly why they did it. To improve reliability.

Does it make that much difference considering the new single smartcard is coming in a few months?

Van.Bosch

lxflyer wrote: »

That's exactly why they did it. To improve reliability.

Does it make that much difference considering the new single smartcard is coming in a few months?

you're right, it doesnt make much difference really but I was just surprised that it hadnt been integrated yet. the fact is that going from one ticket to two tickets is not progressive. Hopefully the new leap card will come soon.

So say I have this new Leap card and my ticket is an annual bus & rail. so would it be possible for me to add 20 quid to it to pay for luas journies if needed?

LXFlyer

Van.Bosch wrote: »

you're right, it doesnt make much difference really but I was just surprised that it hadnt been integrated yet. the fact is that going from one ticket to two tickets is not progressive. Hopefully the new leap card will come soon.

So say I have this new Leap card and my ticket is an annual bus & rail. so would it be possible for me to add 20 quid to it to pay for luas journies if needed?

Yes I believe that the capability will be there to have an epurse and a period pass.

markpb

Van.Bosch wrote: »

you're right, it doesnt make much difference really but I was just surprised that it hadnt been integrated yet. the fact is that going from one ticket to two tickets is not progressive. Hopefully the new leap card will come soon.

It's a stupid hack because of a stupid problem. If you buy a DB & IR ticket issued by DB, it would have a DB smartcard and IR magstripe so you'd use the contactless bit on the bus and the swipe part in train stations. Unfortunately the magstripe reader is too close to the contactless card reader in the IR turnstyles so they'd both activate, detect the DB contactless chip and (because the DoT ordered them not to integrate the contactless chips) reject it, not realising that the magstripe was valid.

AlekSmart

markpb wrote: »

It's a stupid hack because of a stupid problem. If you buy a DB & IR ticket issued by DB, it would have a DB smartcard and IR magstripe so you'd use the contactless bit on the bus and the swipe part in train stations. Unfortunately the magstripe reader is too close to the contactless card reader in the IR turnstyles so they'd both activate, detect the DB contactless chip and (because the DoT ordered them not to integrate the contactless chips) reject it, not realising that the magstripe was valid.

That bolded statement needs to be fully understood by those who regularly queue up to put the boot into the CIE companies.

Dublin Bus in particular were much further along the Smart-Card road than anybody else and could have had full functionality at least 5 years ago were it not for the sheer blind terror exhibited by the Department of Transport that the company would be unduly "dominant" in the market.....so whatever opportunity offered by Contactless Technology has already been watered down to hell.

Backward and Ignorant does'nt come close....:o

Aard

Maybe I'm naive, but how could it be in DOT's interests to obstruct IT? If it's about competition, then surely they're burying their heads in the sand to the fact that CIE effectively already is a monoply?

dazberry

markpb wrote: »

It's a stupid hack because of a stupid problem. If you buy a DB & IR ticket issued by DB, it would have a DB smartcard and IR magstripe so you'd use the contactless bit on the bus and the swipe part in train stations. Unfortunately the magstripe reader is too close to the contactless card reader in the IR turnstyles so they'd both activate, detect the DB contactless chip and (because the DoT ordered them not to integrate the contactless chips) reject it, not realising that the magstripe was valid.

This is actually a problem in the credit/debit card world too, and certain readers can make it very difficult to impossible to fall back from ICC (chip and pin) to swipe (if allowed) because the contactless reader will keep reading the card before it can be swiped.

Not that that's an excuse given the scope of integrated ticketing...

D.

markpb

Aard wrote: »

Maybe I'm naive, but how could it be in DOT's interests to obstruct IT? If it's about competition, then surely they're burying their heads in the sand to the fact that CIE effectively already is a monoply?

I can't find it now but there's an Oireachtas transcript somewhere which explains it. Basically RPA felt that having IR and DB go to tender for contactless ticket systems at the same time as the RPA were tendering for their ITS card was confusing the prospective tenders and, as a result, DoT blocked a request by DB to integrate with IR.

CIE

munchkin_utd wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/great-leap-forward-as-commuter-card-unveiled-2667075.html

I am still at a loss to see how this is any different than carrying a bag of coins.
If the card saves money and allows cheap transfers/ connections it will be a success - but is this the case?
The transport companies all along were pushing to charge full whack anytime anyone steps on their service regardless of whether they were transferrring from somewhere else or not.

"Leap"...what a "léim" name (pardon the pun).

And as for transfers, Network Direct's answer is to make the bus routes longer and try to eliminate them. Not that this will work either...

Solair

Under the official languages act, someone will probably force it to be rebranded as Léim.

bk

Interesting to note that Bank Of Ireland are launching contactless Visa debit cards:

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/business/item/22529-bank-of-ireland-launches/

It mentions:

Bank of Ireland says the card is suitable for retailers, buses, trains, parking and vending machines.

I assume AIB will follow suit soon. They are supposedly also preparing to switch from Laser to Visa Debit Cards, it makes sense for them to go straight to contact less cards, rather then having to switch cards again at a future stage. I'm also sure Visa gives the bank a better deal if they use contactless cards.

This means within probably 2 years the majority of Irish people will have one of these cards.

So will the Leap system have any support for these cards? I realise it might be hard on buses, but at least on trains?

markpb

bk wrote: »

So will the Leap system have any support for these cards? I realise it might be hard on buses, but at least on trains?

I doubt it will, at least not at the start. There's probably no technical reason why it couldn't be ported to a Visa Debit chip but I'd imagine their priority right now is getting it launched and bedded down.

Also, there should be no reason why Dublin Bus would have any impact on deploying it to a Visa Debit chip - all transit apps are offline for speed and for buses anyway.

This means within probably 2 years the majority of Irish people will have one of these cards.

Unlikely, banks don't replace ATM/Debit cards very quickly unless there's a good reason to.

etchyed

markpb wrote: »

Unlikely, banks don't replace ATM/Debit cards very quickly unless there's a good reason to.

When Ulster Bank introduced Visa Debit, they rolled it out over the course of a year to all of their customers, phasing out Laser completely in a relatively short space of time.