Property Prices-People deluded.

mrmitty

Freddie59 wrote: »

You're obviously not a city dweller then.:rolleyes:

Lol
Neither are you.

dan_d

Your neighbour is deluded. What is it with people who have lived as adults through the last decade and property??

And in our part of the country (north county Dublin) they are also known as Monopoly houses. Coz that's what they look like. Though Legoland is better I think..!

dabestman1

Just looking at the prices on property websites it seems that estate agents are deluded too. The quicker that sellers and estate agents come to the conclusion that houses are still way overpriced the better.

TommyTippee

For every idiot pricing his house ridiculously high, there's an idiot who thinks they're getting a bargain.

You need only look over this forum the last week or so from the poster wondering if it's a good time to buy a one-bed apartment to the posters who think a €250k two-bed terrace in Rialto is good value.

There's one born every minute in Ireland when it comes to houses and flats....all logic and sense seems to flutter out the window.

I've no sympathy for them now at all. We've all seen the reality of this stuff within 5 to 15 years, so nobody has any excuses for making these cretinous choices.

Sadly, these people will still artificially prop up the housing market for a while yet.

ricman

If you are not thinking of selling, the value of your house may not have much effect on your lifestyle ,as long as you are not in negative equity ,or looking for a bank loan,and you have a secure job.
Of course most people are effected because the government borrowed billions to rescue the banks and is raising taxes and cutting public services.Maybe some people are happy to think my house is worth x,since they are not selling it maybe along time before they know the real value of their house.Some people buy a house and live in it for 40 years,and its passed on to someone in their will.and some older people don,t use the web,or look on daft.ie or similar websites. .If you go to the bank to borrow 200 on a 240k house and they bank think its worth 180k it,ll be very hard to get a mortgage.I,d say nama is propping up the market abit
by holding on to 1000s of units which they got from the banks at 50 percent of book value.

solovely

Wow, it's amazing with all the wise people on here, that this country got into such a mess in the first place...


But seriously, what does it matter if somebody is deluding themselves if they are not trying to sell you a house? Except for you to be smug and think you know so much more than them?

I am probably one of those deluded people, bought two years ago. Got a 4 bed house (home) 3km from Dublin city centre for 60% of the original asking price and half of what a non-extended (mine has attic and garage) house sold for at the height of the boom, so thought I did pretty well. Another non-extended house sold for more than mine since I bought mine, and other houses in the area don't seem to have devalued nearly as much over the past 2 years as houses in other parts of Dublin have.

But anyway, besides that, paying my mortgage has been a lot cheaper than rent, for a much nicer, bigger place. What I have saved in low interest payments would probably make up for what I would save were I to buy now + rent over 2 years. But beyond that, I'm far far happier owning than I was renting. People say here that it's wrong to base decisions on emotions....eh hello, we are humans, that's what makes us human...since when is happiness solely based on wise financial decisions??

Jaden

For every person who gets good deal (you seem to have done well), there are 49 who get shafted. There are always exeptions, but to have them, there need to be many other examples of the rule.

I was offered 385K in 2006 for my house (Wasn't for sale, someone knocked at my door and asked would I sell). It's a large 5 bed detached house, in rural Galway, less than half an hour from the city. Right now, I couldn't give it way for half that. If you got 175K, you'd be doing well. Does it matter to me? Nope. I'm not moving, half my (small) Mortgage is already paid, and it suits my needs. Yay me, I'm great.

Imagine I'd sold to a young professional couple in 2006. Fast forward to now, and one of them has lost their job, they have a 350K Mortgage on a house worth half that. Can't afford to start a family, and can't leave because of NE.

Even back then, a quick look over the financials of buying would have raised red flags, and yey many people bought because they "loved" the place. There are people even now with the same thinking.

In the long run, You'll lead a happier life if you make financial decisions with your head and not your heart.

Mr. Loverman

solovely wrote: »

Wow, it's amazing with all the wise people on here, that this country got into such a mess in the first place...


But seriously, what does it matter if somebody is deluding themselves if they are not trying to sell you a house? Except for you to be smug and think you know so much more than them?

I am probably one of those deluded people, bought two years ago. Got a 4 bed house (home) 3km from Dublin city centre for 60% of the original asking price and half of what a non-extended (mine has attic and garage) house sold for at the height of the boom, so thought I did pretty well. Another non-extended house sold for more than mine since I bought mine, and other houses in the area don't seem to have devalued nearly as much over the past 2 years as houses in other parts of Dublin have.

But anyway, besides that, paying my mortgage has been a lot cheaper than rent, for a much nicer, bigger place. What I have saved in low interest payments would probably make up for what I would save were I to buy now + rent over 2 years. But beyond that, I'm far far happier owning than I was renting. People say here that it's wrong to base decisions on emotions....eh hello, we are humans, that's what makes us human...since when is happiness solely based on wise financial decisions??

If you honestly think you have saved money by buying two years ago you are amazingly deluded.

60% of the original asking price means nothing if the seller was also deluded.

ZYX

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

If you honestly think you have saved money by buying two years ago you are amazingly deluded.

60% of the original asking price means nothing if the seller was also deluded.

This is the kind of comment that really annoys me. People making decisions about someone elses house without ever even seeing it. It is based on the mistaken belief that all houses are equal that all prices go up and down at the same level.

Zamboni

ZYX wrote: »

This is the kind of comment that really annoys me. People making decisions about someone elses house without ever even seeing it. It is based on the mistaken belief that all houses are equal that all prices go up and down at the same level.

It could also be based on a number of statistical reports from the CSO and reports on asking prices from Daft and Myhome.

ZYX

Zamboni wrote: »

It could also be based on a number of statistical reports from the CSO and reports on asking prices from Daft and Myhome.

That is my point. It is based on these reports then he makes assumptions based on averages in these reports.

For example house prices in Dublin are now down about 45% from peak on average. Yet the poster said he paid 60% less than peak and got a better house. 60% off peak fits with Morgan Kelly's predictions (70% including inflation so about 60% actual reduction). I don't know the house he is talking about but based on what he said it sounds like a good deal.

Mr. Loverman

ZYX wrote: »

This is the kind of comment that really annoys me. People making decisions about someone elses house without ever even seeing it. It is based on the mistaken belief that all houses are equal that all prices go up and down at the same level.

Surely it is absolutely stunningly obvious at this stage that

a) houses are significantly cheaper than they were two years ago
b) it is silly to think you got a good deal because you "only" paid 50% of the peak price during a bubble. Bubble prices are so far off reality you should not compare anything with them unless you are just having a bit of a laugh.

solovely is deluding himself by thinking he has saved money by buying two years ago.

quozl

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

solovely is deluding himself by thinking he has saved money by buying two years ago.

ZYX, would you not say that considering that 'solovely' gave us no hard facts to base their claim on that the balance of probability is that Mr. Loverman is correct?

It's obvious that neither, he, I, nor you can actually know for sure as 'solovely' gave us zero details to go on but there are a lot of things that we can't know for certain but that we can make an educated guess of the likelihood of.

Do you propose that we consider all possibilities to be equally likely in the absence of evidence proving one?

D1stant

ZYX wrote: »

That is my point. It is based on these reports then he makes assumptions based on averages in these reports.

For example house prices in Dublin are now down about 45% from peak on average. Yet the poster said he paid 60% less than peak and got a better house. 60% off peak fits with Morgan Kelly's predictions (70% including inflation so about 60% actual reduction). I don't know the house he is talking about but based on what he said it sounds like a good deal.

This is the kind of comment that really annoys me. People making decisions on whether a deal is good or bad without knowing what '60% of peak' is in real terms

Damie

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

If you honestly think you have saved money by buying two years ago you are amazingly deluded.

60% of the original asking price means nothing if the seller was also deluded.

Devils advocate here, just to spice things up....yeah

If solovely somehow managed to get a tracker mortgage, would it make any difference? As in, someone getting a mortgage now on less capital compared to someone with a tracker on higher capital?

(*just for arguments sake*)

solovely

Wow, I seem to have sparked something.

No tracker mortgage unfortunately :-( They weren't around 2 years ago.

Bought a nice house in a nice part (they exist) of Dublin 8 in a nice small development, original asking price in Oct 2007 was €550k, I bought for €330k in June 2009. The seller had gone sale agreed twice but both pulled out as mortgage didn't come through. Went for quick sale with me as she was desperate. Similar house in same estate without attic conversion and garage went for €600k in early 2007. A house in the same estate went sale agreed at €380k and I heard through the grapevine sold for not much less than that 4 months after I bought mine in June 2009.

A 2 bed cottage on my road is currently asking for €265k and similar 3 beds in the area are looking for €270-400k. The road I'm on though has somehow always sold for more than others in the area.

I got a 92% 2 year fixed rate mortgage at 2.7%.

Is that enough info?

Based on what I get in renting out two rooms in the house versus what I was paying in rent on my own for a cottage less than half the size on my own house this time two years ago, I am €700 better off every month.

I have no intention to move any time in the foreseeable future. I love my home far more than I could ever love anywhere that belongs to anyone else. If heaven forbid, I did lose my job, it is in a great rental location, I could move into a smaller bedroom and rent out the other bedrooms to almost cover the full mortgage cost (even when my fixed rate ends in September).

Oh, by the way, I'm female ;-)

Mr. Loverman

solovely wrote: »

Wow, I seem to have sparked something.

No tracker mortgage unfortunately :-( They weren't around 2 years ago.

Bought a nice house in a nice part (they exist) of Dublin 8 in a nice small development, original asking price in Oct 2007 was €550k, I bought for €330k in June 2009. The seller had gone sale agreed twice but both pulled out as mortgage didn't come through. Went for quick sale with me as she was desperate. Similar house in same estate without attic conversion and garage went for €600k in early 2007. A house in the same estate went sale agreed at €380k and I heard through the grapevine sold for not much less than that 4 months after I bought mine in June 2009.

A 2 bed cottage on my road is currently asking for €265k and similar 3 beds in the area are looking for €270-400k. The road I'm on though has somehow always sold for more than others in the area.

I got a 92% 2 year fixed rate mortgage at 2.7%.

Is that enough info?

Based on what I get in renting out two rooms in the house versus what I was paying in rent on my own for a cottage less than half the size on my own house this time two years ago, I am €700 better off every month.

I have no intention to move any time in the foreseeable future. I love my home far more than I could ever love anywhere that belongs to anyone else. If heaven forbid, I did lose my job, it is in a great rental location, I could move into a smaller bedroom and rent out the other bedrooms to almost cover the full mortgage cost (even when my fixed rate ends in September).

Oh, by the way, I'm female ;-)

So it's probably fair to say you're in about 80k of negative equity at the moment.

Would you have spent that much on rent in two years?

I'm sorry I have to say this stuff to you.

Btw bubble prices are irrelevant, and asking prices are pretty irrelevant too!

Damie

solovely wrote: »

Wow, I seem to have sparked something.

No tracker mortgage unfortunately :-( They weren't around 2 years ago.

Bought a nice house in a nice part (they exist) of Dublin 8 in a nice small development, original asking price in Oct 2007 was €550k, I bought for €330k in June 2009. The seller had gone sale agreed twice but both pulled out as mortgage didn't come through. Went for quick sale with me as she was desperate. Similar house in same estate without attic conversion and garage went for €600k in early 2007. A house in the same estate went sale agreed at €380k and I heard through the grapevine sold for not much less than that 4 months after I bought mine in June 2009.

A 2 bed cottage on my road is currently asking for €265k and similar 3 beds in the area are looking for €270-400k. The road I'm on though has somehow always sold for more than others in the area.

I got a 92% 2 year fixed rate mortgage at 2.7%.

Is that enough info?

Based on what I get in renting out two rooms in the house versus what I was paying in rent on my own for a cottage less than half the size on my own house this time two years ago, I am €700 better off every month.

I have no intention to move any time in the foreseeable future. I love my home far more than I could ever love anywhere that belongs to anyone else. If heaven forbid, I did lose my job, it is in a great rental location, I could move into a smaller bedroom and rent out the other bedrooms to almost cover the full mortgage cost (even when my fixed rate ends in September).

Oh, by the way, I'm female ;-)

Any idea what rate you will be offered when your fixed rate term is up? How will this affect your current savings?

Mr. Loverman

solovely wrote: »

Based on what I get in renting out two rooms in the house versus what I was paying in rent on my own for a cottage less than half the size on my own house this time two years ago, I am €700 better off every month.

Another problem, you are not comparing like with like. There is a big difference between renting a cottage on your own, and renting a house with two other people. Obviously the former will cost more rent.

There is also the issue that you are having to rent out two rooms in your home. That isn't doable long term.

Again I'm not trying to be negative, but I see no sense in deluding yourself about your situation.

desertcircus

Everything depends on what kind of deal you get when the introductory rate runs down. At the moment, you're alright, but that may not remain the case. The rates on mortgages.ie at the moment indicate a rate between 4.2 and 4.75% for a refinance, but that may not be on the table given that most banks won't touch a refinancing at anything much over 80% LTV. Over a twenty-year term, repayments are from 1830 to over 2050 a month at those rates for a 300k loan - compared to 1615 a month at 2.7% based on a twenty-year mortgage.

OMD

Damie wrote: »

Devils advocate here, just to spice things up....yeah

If solovely somehow managed to get a tracker mortgage, would it make any difference? As in, someone getting a mortgage now on less capital compared to someone with a tracker on higher capital?

(*just for arguments sake*)

Trackers make a massive difference (I know she didn't have one in this case). I commented on this before, but a €250k mortgage at 2% i.e. a 0.75% tracker over 30 years would cost €921 a month. If you are now getting a new mortgage at 4% then the mortgage amount would have to fall to €195K to keep the repayments the same. This is a 22% drop required just to keep repayments the same.

The tracker is obviously stuck at 0.75% over ECB. This example assumes a variable at 2.75% over ECB. I think most people will accept that the variable margin is going to be higher than this over the lifetime of the mortgage but I have deliberately left it low.

solovely

Damie wrote: »

Any idea what rate you will be offered when your fixed rate term is up? How will this affect your current savings?

I don't know yet, probaly around 4.5% which will sting. I'm estimating at having to pay back about €400-500 more a month, which is affordable (and still leaves me better off than I was renting).

So it's probably fair to say you're in about 80k of negative equity at the moment.

Where do you get €80k from?

Maybe I am deluding myself, but so what? In terms of real money (i.e. the money in my pocket at the end of the month), I am better off financially. I have no intention of selling in the short or medium term future. I am in a great rental location if I ever do need to move, so what is wrong with me "deluding myself"?

solovely

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

There is also the issue that you are having to rent out two rooms in your home. That isn't doable long term.
.

Why isn't it doable? Only way I can see it not being doable is if I find a partner and they move in, but then they will be paying rent or whatever anyway.

Going to survive on one rental income for the summer to see how I find it. Ideally I'd like to only rent one room and keep two spare, but we'll see. That will have to change I think when the fixed rate ends.

Thanks for all the feedback by the way. And I know you are trying to make me be realistic....I just don't get why you all see it as such a big deal?!

coup1917

mikemac wrote: »

I remember gazumping, we had lots of threads on it

Will we see gazundering in Ireland?
Seller desperate to sell, maybe in a chain with a bridging loan and right before the contracts are signed the buyer demands a lower price or they walk. The seller knows it might be months to get another buyer in place
High pressure tactics

Well it was done the other way around not so long ago

Not condoning it now, just interested

This will definetly be an issue in the months & years ahead..

I was slightly stung by this last year as I was selling my house..

Right at the last minute the buyer's solicitor informed us that unless I threw in some bedroom furniture & my white goods they would pull out..
I was fuming as contracts had already been signed but were being witheld by the buyers solicitor until I confirmed this.

The buyers had been informed by my auctioneer previously that these items were a non starter but they were chancing their arm..
They had originally contacted me behind solicitors back to try and get a better deal so I should have known their form..

Anyway, I've had the last laugh as my house was in a sh*t area, I got the full asking price..Its now not even worth half the price.

And I'm currently waiting to pounce on a bargain...
I have to agree with earlier posts, my_home.ie and duft.ie have some deluded prices on them....:mad:

The longer these inflated prices remain, the more stagnated the market will be, leading to a complete collapse..
I can see us waking up some morning to a news report " If you're just joining us, headline news is Ireland has now defaulted......!!":eek::eek:

iguana

solovely wrote: »

Maybe I am deluding myself, but so what? In terms of real money (i.e. the money in my pocket at the end of the month), I am better off financially.

But far, far, far less better off than you would be if you'd just moved from your rental cottage into a houseshare and saved the balance toward a purchase that you could make a couple of years from now.

And the problem people have with the delusion that many people are still clinging to, is that delusion got the whole county into this mess (and I'll admit for quite a few years I bought into it too - it wasn't until I left Ireland that I got real perspective). Clinging to the delusion once it was obvious the jig was up made the mess worse and everyone who lives here is paying for it, so they are entitled to feel pissed off. And the longer that delusion persists the harder and harder it is going to be to clean the mess up.

It would be fine if the deluded were just a couple of oddballs. Each individual's delusion is harmless in isolation but delusion en masse, which still describes this country, hurts the country very, very badly. It influences the government we get, it's why successive governments now are at their most pro-active implementing kick-the-can-down-the-road policies, and at their least proactive telling us all it's still awesome. If we wake up to reality now our this country might just be fit for our grandchildren, if we don't our great, great grandchildren will still be cursing us all.

kippy

My house is worth two million euros.........
Until I try and sell it............

TommyTippee

solovely wrote: »

Maybe I am deluding myself, but so what?

The Irish and their mortgages, summed up in one sentence.

solovely

iguana wrote: »

But far, far, far less better off than you would be if you'd just moved from your rental cottage into a houseshare and saved the balance toward a purchase that you could make a couple of years from now.

And be miserable in a house share in the meantime. I'm far, far, far happier "deluding myself" thanks!

CiaranC

solovely wrote: »

And be miserable in a house share in the meantime. I'm far, far, far happier "deluding myself" thanks!

You rent two of your rooms. You are in a house share.

Aprilmay

CiaranC wrote: »

You rent two of your rooms. You are in a house share.

Yes she is in a home share but its HER on own home on HER terms. And yes we all know where house prices are at the moment- but I don't get why everyone tries to have a go at someone who's bought a home - she happy with her home and the price she paid for it & she has an extra €700 a month in income from her lodgers. Why are people trying to pick flaws and tell her she should be miserable. We know there are people in major negative equity at the moment but not everyone feels like they've a noose around their neck with mortgage. This is in this particular persons (solovely case) I'm commenting on

There are a lot of people the are deluded I agree and maybe its their way of coping with the situation (ostrich head in the sand) pretending their home is still worth what they paid for it.