Should "the ladies lounge" clarify its position and only allow ladies to post?

liah

I still can't figure out why it's such a baffling or offensive concept that ladies want to have ladies posting in the Ladies Lounge.

Nobody is saying men aren't allowed, just that men who refuse to respect the ladies' opinions aren't appreciated - I'm sure if a load of women kept going into tGC and twisting around every single thread to meet their agenda it wouldn't exactly go down well, either. I mean, come on, put it into perspective a little.

I could be way off the mark here, but a lot of women seem to post overall ideas, impressions, sentiments, abstract concepts, etc. and share, whereas a lot of men seem to post exact statements, look at everything very systematically, be literal, aggressive, direct, and hyper-focus on minute points. Women share, men compete or whatever. This seems to be what's causing the dissonance, so perhaps the men who tend to argue this way can try to keep in mind that, while in the Ladies Lounge, they should be mindful that there is a different preferred method of discussion?

Could just be me, I dunno. Just the way it's coming across to me.

dr.bollocko

How do I prove that I am female in this new age of female only posting?
I am a woman. So is wibbs.

Ickle Magoo

Exactly - apart from not being something the majority actually has an issue with, never mind wants; it would be impossible to implement.

Besides, if there are major changes to be made with regards to how the forum operates - surely that is for the regular posters to decide on?

Silverfish

Midnight_EG wrote: »

Just to get back to what I originally asked


It comes across as, from Wibbs post, that only women are welcome though, and that no men have an opinion on the forum. Telling someone they're not a woman is a bit of a childish thing to do, considering OutlawPete would be one of a few fair and respected posters on boards.ie as a whole rather than just being good in one or two forums. I'm not familiar with either TLL or TGC so I can't comment on whether one sex is a good idea or a bad idea in either forum, but to me it seems like TLL just wants to be for women and nobody else.

If this was the case, there'd be an argument for merging all of boards into one big forum and doing away with the individual forums.

I don't play golf, I don't expect the golf forum to cater for me if I just want to come in and criticise golfers.
I don't hunt, I don't expect the hunting forum to cater for me if I just want to argue with hunters.
I don't watch/play soccer, I don't expect the soccer forum to cater for me if I just want to ask them if they know how ridiculous they're being.

There are a lot of men posting on tLL, and you know, I've seen lots of other male posters assuming because they're posting there, that they are female, and commence arguing with them.

We shouldn't have to remove access for ALL men just to cater for the few who don't like the forum, the ethos of the forum, the idea of the forum, the posters in the forum, the topics that get discussed in the forum.

And back to another of my original posts, if being a woman is the point of TLL, then why have a male mod? Again, not aimed at Wibbs, just curiosity.

For checks and balances. Same way BGRH has had female mods, tGC has female mods, yet no-one bats an eyelid. Why is it again that having a male mod in tLL is questioned? Wouldn't it be worse if we didn't have a male mod?

Silverfish

dr.bollocko wrote: »

How do I prove that I am female in this new age of female only posting?
I am a woman. So is wibbs.

Dunno, perhaps you could post a picture of yourself butt naked in Eyre Square or something.

Do we have to think of everything?

Jimmy Garlic

Links234 wrote: »

Then you should have no problem with women making generalisations about men, right? :cool:

Men in general?.. Yes I would, for example if a lady said "all men are bastards" that would be a blanket generalisation . I didn't make a blanket generalisation about women, I didn't say "all women are.... ". I referred to women that wear those big aul sunglasses, it is my opinion that women who wear them are generally unfriendly and rude. If a women said men who tuck their tracksuit pants into their socks are generally scumbags, I would agree.

Otis Driftwood

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I'm not familiar with either TLL or TGC

Midnight_EG wrote: »

but to me it seems like TLL just wants to be for women and nobody else.

How precisely have you come to this conclusion given that you self admittedly arent familiar with tLL?

Midnight_EG wrote: »

I'm not familiar with either TLL or TGC so I can't comment on whether one sex is a good idea or a bad idea in either forum, but to me it seems like TLL just wants to be for women and nobody else.

There are a number of brilliant female members that post regularly in a number of different threads in tGC and I wouldnt want it any other way.However there have been a handful of female posters that posted there with the sole purpose of antagonising the regulars and trying to get a rise by posting crass or unfounded generalisations.

You know what happened to them?

They got banned,yet I dont see feedback threads from them asking why isnt tGC for male posters only.

Every forum on boards operates on one credence,that posters abide by the charter and post in the spirit of the forum.If people cant or dont do this how else could they be dealt with?

As a bloke,this thread is a fúcking embarrassment.

Wibbs

Silverfish wrote: »

For checks and balances. Same way BGRH has had female mods, tGC has female mods, yet no-one bats an eyelid. Why is it again that having a male mod in tLL is questioned?

This sums a lot of this up for me and IMHO it's because it's tLL. tLL gets almost constant low level stick from a small bunch of blokes. Hell at this stage I'm beginning to buy into the more paranoid end of the feminazi(tm) spectrum that suggests some men just can't stand women having their own thing.

Like this is really simple stuff for me. Dribbling on your keyboard, tongue sticking out with a blue crayon stuck up your right nostril simple. The ladies lounge.

Dunno, perhaps you could post a picture of yourself butt naked in Eyre Square or something.

It's freely available on some "specialised" well hidden sites, under the title of hotsugarbunsagaillimh.jpg.

tbh

If a girl starts a thread in tLL asking something like, say, the best sports bra to buy for someone with big boobs, there will be a dumb-ass "pics or gtfo" post and that post will be from a guy. If there's a thread on where to get large condoms started in tGC, there may be a stupid post but it will not be by a girl. There are guys who post in tLL who post because they want to meet girls, and they become real obvious real fast. Honestly, some of them might as well be hanging out outside the forum doing pushups or pulling wheelies on their bikes, it's embarrassing. On that score, the LL mods have a way harder time with lads than we do with girls, but the posts that'll get you banned in tLL will also get you banned in tGC. in fact, I'd say if you compared the banlists, a lot of the names would be in common because those posters have an axe to grind. The other thing is that there are just more blokes on boards so if 1% of the total population of posters are going to be banned, that's more blokes than girls.

At the end of the day, the contentious bans from the LL are for the same reasons as any other forum. Someone makes a post they think is funny, insightful and unique. They aren't willing to accept that sometimes, they just judge it wrong

Finally it may be worth pointing out that the rule about generalisations was copied from the GC. We hate that stuff too.

Stheno

tbh wrote: »

1. the posts that'll get you banned in tLL will also get you banned in tGC. in fact, I'd say if you compared the banlists, a lot of the names would be in common because those posters have an axe to grind.


2. Finally it may be worth pointing out that the rule about generalisations was copied from the GC. We hate that stuff too.

1. Exactly as tbh says, I read and post in tGC regularly and often see the same posters being banned from either forum

2. Again agree, funnily enough tGC forum calls out specifically that it is for discussion from a male point of view, and I've regularly seen women warned/banned due to their attitudes there.

Eerily similiar to tLL but I don't hear or see any feedback in that regard. In fact when posting on debate topics in tGC I frequently have to remind myself I am in tGC and post accordingly, and have done, while posting in accordance with tLL rules on similiar if not identical topics. In terms of generalisations, female posters are just as likely to get banned from tLL for this too, I know I've warned/banned posters for it.

I also don't get the "I didn't realise where I was" argument as a defence against posting inappropriately in a forum. It's clear as day!!!!! Look at the top of your reply and it will tell you straight away!!!!!

Threads such as the one the OP posted in and his response are clearly against the charter of tLL.

TheZohanS

Well if the recent thread in Helpdesk is anything to go by then tLL doesn't really want a different point of view if it comes from men. I see one poster who would not be a troll and makes fine posts and he's been accused of "whataboutry".

"Whataboutry" ffs, is nobody allowed to put forward a different point of view over there now? And this "ethos" I hear bandied about, is this "ethos" men can't disagree with what women post.

Is it not a discussion forum?

Can the ladies not engage in proper debate if alternative views are put forward?

When a poster in AH comes along and posts that Irish women are this or that it doesn't take very long for them to be called on any bs, why can't tLL do this too? Yes obviously the "make me a sammich" and "get back in the kitchen comments wouldn't be tolerated" there but to cut out all debate? That's just silly.

tbh

Zohan, when someone says "all x are y" - there is no debate. There is problematic heated refutation, there is pointing out the obvious for the millionth time and there are reported posts by the shedload, but there is no debate.

Silverfish

Because, quite simply, the forum is not a battleground for a war between the sexes.

It is not there for women to defend themselves against every wandering male who wants women in general to answer for the actions of some.

It's not for women to have to defend every post, experience, feeling or opinion to any guy who posts wanting to have a 'debate'.

To use an earlier analogy, the Golf forum is not a forum for golfers to explain, constantly, in every thread, why they do not play soccer instead. The hunting forum is not for every person who hunts to have to defend themselves against people who think they shouldn't shoot wickle bunnies.

It's not the meeting ground between the genders, it's a forum. For women.

dr.bollocko

The premise of this thread is too ridiculous to build decent feedback on. Even good points are going to be lost or wasted as the original question is so wide of the mark that it just puts everyone on the defensive.
(Which is unfair. The whole thread is kinda unfair if you had any knowledge of the nature of the ladies lounge as a forum.)

TheZohanS

tbh wrote: »

Zohan, when someone says "all x are y" - there is no debate. There is problematic heated refutation, there is pointing out the obvious for the millionth time and there are reported posts by the shedload, but there is no debate.

That's fair enough, when someone generalises like that I totally agree it's problematic, especially if the person is only looking to troll and if you have a fairly good idea that under no circumstances will they change their point of view or even acknowledge those of others as having some credence. However in the thread that Silverfish quoted the poster had the position that:

not all Irish girls are like this,but in the majority of cases it's true.What do ye think?

Now that's asking for some debate and the poster has even acknowledged that not all girls are like that.

Silverfish wrote: »

Because, quite simply, the forum is not a battleground for a war between the sexes.

It is not there for women to defend themselves against every wandering male who wants women in general to answer for the actions of some.

It's not for women to have to defend every post, experience, feeling or opinion to any guy who posts wanting to have a 'debate'.

To use an earlier analogy, the Golf forum is not a forum for golfers to explain, constantly, in every thread, why they do not play soccer instead. The hunting forum is not for every person who hunts to have to defend themselves against people who think they shouldn't shoot wickle bunnies.

It's not the meeting ground between the genders, it's a forum. For women.

I think that's being unfair, a proper analogy would be say in the Motors forum where someone says that they have received bad service from a garage and all garages are bad, you'll get posters saying that the garage they go to is excellent and that they need to find the right garage etc. same thing for makes of cars etc. It's discussion driven.

Stheno

TheZohan wrote: »

Well if the recent thread in Helpdesk is anything to go by then tLL doesn't really want a different point of view if it comes from men. I see one poster who would not be a troll and makes fine posts and he's been accused of "whataboutry".

"Whataboutry" ffs, is nobody allowed to put forward a different point of view over there now? And this "ethos" I hear bandied about, is this "ethos" men can't disagree with what women post.

Is it not a discussion forum?

Can the ladies not engage in proper debate if alternative views are put forward?

When a poster in AH comes along and posts that Irish women are this or that it doesn't take very long for them to be called on any bs, why can't tLL do this too? Yes obviously the "make me a sammich" and "get back in the kitchen comments wouldn't be tolerated" there but to cut out all debate? That's just silly.

Not if that view is taking an entirely contrary view from the OP and posting the old "what if this were a guy" point of view, no imo.

tLL is for women to discuss things from there perspective, I've personally had posters make assumptions as to outcomes when I've been involved in debate and given personal experience as examples, and those assumptions were wrong.

Similiarly (and to clarify, most if not all of these examples are prior to me being a mod there) I've experienced male posters interjecting into a thread and literally debating to a point where I have chosen to either ignore the thread or stay out of discussion, as they take hold of one point and debate it from their own male point of view, while refusing to acknowledge that there are/can be different perspectives.

Equally in tGC simliar has occured, and people have been warned/banned.

AH I can't comment on as I'm a. not familiar with the charter, b. don't post/read there much, and c. percieve that it's ethos is entirely different from tLL or tGC

stovelid

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

That is a valid opinion.

If that's the case, I'd hate to see your invalid ones.

liah

TheZohan wrote: »

"Whataboutry" ffs, is nobody allowed to put forward a different point of view over there now? And this "ethos" I hear bandied about, is this "ethos" men can't disagree with what women post.

Is it not a discussion forum?

Yep, it certainly is a discussion forum - but it is not a compete-to-win/beat-the-other-side-into-submission/take-the-piss/dismissive forum.

There's a wide variety of male posters who post basically daily on tLL with literally no problem whatsoever. Loads of them. This isn't about men not being allowed to have an opinion - this is about how certain men choose to display their opinion. And why they cannot possibly bring themselves to respect the ethos of the forum.

Can the ladies not engage in proper debate if alternative views are put forward?

We can and do, regularly, with posters who are respectful. You can't expect us to engage, repeatedly, when the opposite side refuses to listen and is only there because they want a war on women.

When a poster in AH comes along and posts that Irish women are this or that it doesn't take very long for them to be called on any bs, why can't tLL do this too? Yes obviously the "make me a sammich" and "get back in the kitchen comments wouldn't be tolerated" there but to cut out all debate? That's just silly.

But why should we have to put up with that BS in the first place on the only place on boards that is designated for women?

What is so horrific about just not wanting to put up with that kind of crap anymore? Really? There's more than enough places on boards where you can debate like that. Why is it necessary to make tLL the exact same?

And nobody has mentioned even once getting rid of men or cutting out debate except for men! I've not seen a single female yet say anything even remotely along those lines. So can you please tell us where you are getting it from?

Ickle Magoo

TheZohan wrote: »

I think that's being unfair, a proper analogy would be say in the Motors forum where someone says that they have received bad service from a garage and all garages are bad, you'll get posters saying that the garage they go to is excellent and that they need to find the right garage etc. same thing for makes of cars etc. It's discussion driven.

Given the demographics, it's more like the LGBT forum being bombarded with straight posters demanding explanations, debate and that their perspective is taken into account at every.single.turn.

Stheno

dr.bollocko wrote: »

(Which is unfair. The whole thread is kinda unfair if you had any knowledge of the nature of the ladies lounge as a forum.)

You've been in tLL? Or just disguised yourself at our beers?

tbh

TheZohan wrote: »

Now that's asking for some debate and the poster has even acknowledged that not all girls are like that.
.

yeah but sure what kind of debate?

"Most Irish girls who wear big sunglasses are snobs - Discuss"

Answer 1: "that's true"

Answer 2: "no it's not, it's a load of balls"

the end.

No offense, but the person who wrote that post is never going to read a resulting post and think "actually, I see where you're coming from, and I've changed my mind". It's a "big sunglasses women are snobs amiright guys!? amiright?!" statement, nothing more tbh.

Stheno

tbh wrote: »

yeah but sure what kind of debate?

"Most Irish girls who wear big sunglasses are snobs - Discuss"

Answer 1: "that's true"

Answer 2: "no it's not, it's a load of balls"

the end.

No offense, but the person who wrote that post is never going to read a resulting post and think "actually, I see where you're coming from, and I've changed my mind". It's a "big sunglasses women are snobs amiright guys!? amiright?!" statement, nothing more tbh.

And given the generalisation about such women, against the charter.

Would you allow an "All men who wear droopy jeans showing off their boxers are **** thread?"

Chinafoot

Stheno wrote: »

Not if that view is taking an entirely contrary view from the OP and posting the old "what if this were a guy" point of view, no imo.

Ugh, nothing bloody worse. Someone starts a thread about sexual assault/rape. Inevitably a male poster comes along withe usual "well, it happens to men too ya know!" Yes, it does. But that is not the discussion that is taking place.

I am absolutely amazed that tLL is an issue yet again. Why are some male posters so bothered by the forum? Seriously? I personally don't like AH. I find whats posted there to be thanks-whoring drivel, so ya know what I do? I stay the hell out of it. I think those who object so strongly to tLL's mere existence need to ask themselves honestly what they find so offensive about it, because right now it just smacks of "who do these little women think they are!?". This entire site is male dominated, we've been given one forum where men are perfectly welcome and yet there are still people píssing and moaning. It's fúcking pathetic.

K-9

tbh wrote: »

yeah but sure what kind of debate?

"Most Irish girls who wear big sunglasses are snobs - Discuss"

Answer 1: "that's true"

Answer 2: "no it's not, it's a load of balls"

the end.

No offense, but the person who wrote that post is never going to read a resulting post and think "actually, I see where you're coming from, and I've changed my mind". It's a "big sunglasses women are snobs amiright guys!? amiright?!" statement, nothing more tbh.

All people who wear big sunglasses are snobs!

I've posted in tLL a bit and never had much bother but I've seen a couple of threads that had generalisations on men in them and just didn't bother posting. Other female posters tend to point it out anyway but it seems a male poster saying it is judged harsher to me and it isn't worth the effort, as I'm not sure what exactly is acceptable.

tbh

No, because they are
On an aside tho, a thread about *why* they wear baggy jeans would be cool. It's actually because it started with the street gangs in the states. You wore your big brothers hand-me-downs. The baggier the jeans, the bigger the brother. Psychology yo.

Stheno

Chinafoot wrote: »

Ugh, nothing bloody worse. Someone starts a thread about sexual assault/rape. Inevitably a male poster comes along withe usual "well, it happens to men too ya know!" Yes, it does. But that is not the discussion that is taking place.

I am absolutely amazed that tLL is an issue yet again. Why are some male posters so bothered by the forum? Seriously? I personally don't like AH. I find whats posted there to be thanks-whoring drivel, so ya know what I do? I stay the hell out of it. I think those who object so strongly to tLL's mere existence need to ask themselves honestly what they find so offensive about it, because right now it just smacks of "who do these little women think they are!?". This entire site is male dominated, we've been given one forum where men are perfectly welcome and yet there are still people píssing and moaning. It's fúcking pathetic.

The bizarre thing about it is that for the majority of tLL posters, if a post is created there that reflects on poor/bad/appalling treatment of a boy/man in the context of it being inflicted by the opposite gender, the opinions expressed tend to be far less harsh then those expressed in other fora, and this is referenced in the different fora.

There is also an acceptance that men face discrimination which may be similiar but different to women, but those who chose to come into the forum to post the hard male view refuse to accept it, whilst also refusing to accept that women have different experiences.

I find it disappointing, and truly believe it inhibits less experienced/vocal female posters from having the opportunity to get involved in discussion/debate about topics they may be interested in.

Stheno

K-9 wrote: »

I've posted in tLL a bit and never had much bother but I've seen a couple of threads that had generalisations on men in them and just didn't bother posting. Other female posters tend to point it out anyway but it seems a male poster saying it is judged harsher to me and it isn't worth the effort, as I'm not sure what exactly is acceptable.

pm a mod with your proposed reply if you are unsure?

And as well report a post if you see something you think is a generalisation

Chinafoot

Stheno wrote: »

The bizarre thing about it is that for the majority of tLL posters, if a post is created there that reflects on poor/bad/appalling treatment of a boy/man in the context of it being inflicted by the opposite gender, the opinions expressed tend to be far less harsh then those expressed in other fora, and this is referenced in the different fora.

There is also an acceptance that men face discrimination which may be similiar but different to women, but those who chose to come into the forum to post the hard male view refuse to accept it, whilst also refusing to accept that women have different experiences.

I find it disappointing, and truly believe it inhibits less experienced/vocal female posters from having the opportunity to get involved in discussion/debate about topics they may be interested in.

Fully agree, particularly with your last point. I don't post anywhere near as often as I used to in tLL because of crap like this and I've been using this site for over 9 years ffs! So yes, it must be incredibly off-putting for newer posters who arrive at tLL thinking it's a "safe" place for women to have discussions from the female point of view only to find themselves having to justify themselves due to the minority of male posters who seem to just have an issue with women having a forum dedicated to themselves - despite it being open to men too.

Snyper made a really good point earlier when he said that some people aren't debating or discussing, they are simply trying to win. Its so true with regards tLL and the more vocal male protestors. It's like everything has to be a competiton. If I want to have a discussion about rape/assault in tLL, I expect to be able to do that from the female perspective and experience - my perspective and my experience (and other female posters will have their perspectives and their experiences that won't necessarily be the same as mine). I do not believe that I should have to put up with "well what about men?" If you want to have a discussion on the rape/assault of men go to tGC. Why is it so offensive to say that?

As for the remarks about the forum only being for women and men who agree with the women...complete and utter bollox. There are plenty of differing views amongst the women alone, never mind the male posters!

This topic rears its head every now and again and I will never get it. If you don't agree with the ethos of a forum, don't post there.

Wibbs

Chinafoot wrote: »

Ugh, nothing bloody worse. Someone starts a thread about sexual assault/rape. Inevitably a male poster comes along withe usual "well, it happens to men too ya know!" Yes, it does. But that is not the discussion that is taking place.

I am absolutely amazed that tLL is an issue yet again. Why are some male posters so bothered by the forum? Seriously? I personally don't like AH. I find whats posted there to be thanks-whoring drivel, so ya know what I do? I stay the hell out of it. I think those who object so strongly to tLL's mere existence need to ask themselves honestly what they find so offensive about it, because right now it just smacks of "who do these little women think they are!?". This entire site is male dominated, we've been given one forum where men are perfectly welcome and yet there are still people píssing and moaning. It's fúcking pathetic.

QFT, except for the AH stuff. I fuggin loooove AH. Maybe I love drivel? I do post enough of it so...

Wibbs

Chinafoot wrote: »

If you don't agree with the ethos of a forum, don't post there.

This. End fúcking thread. And I'd add, don't bitch about it either.