WoT - Tanktics :D

Dublin_Gunner

So I guess its time to start discussing tactics, and concentrating on one or two maps in the clan battles until we get good tactics and strategy down.

I have gotten ATC and will d/l one of the WoT map packs later on. Its an excellent tool for devising strategy, used to use it all the time back in my days of competitive BF2 playing!

Fionn has been doing up a few maps with tactics on it, and has done a great job, but using ATC will make things a LOT easier.

I will update this later with suggestions for maps.

At the moment I think we should stick to maybe El Halluf, and either Erlenberg or Abbey.

These are maps where definitive strategy can win, as there are choke points and few routes to take.

Let me have your thoughts

Nody

A key concept which I think we're missing is focused fire. We usually end the battles with several enemy tanks between 5% to 75% that if killed would have reduced the damage we've taken a lot.

This also ties in with spreading out to thin; last time we had 15 (and a fair fight) we had 3 tanks running down the right side, 2 tanks (inc. me) holding the left side, another set of tanks camping the highground at spawn. We ended up with having not enough DPS focused on any of the points to actually kill their push and they rolled us with only 2 or 3 losses on their side.

If we instead had put all TDs camping one entry (with any arty to support) and pushed all tanks down one flank we could most likely have overwhelmed one flank and push to their spawn for a win. The point is overwhelming force on a key point while only keeping enough to delay them at the rest of the spots (not to win but to stop them long enough that the strong flank swings through for victory).

This would obviously work a lot better if all people where on TS (even if only to hear the orders of which tank is primary target/secondary target for a given spot).

Dublin_Gunner

This is exactly my reasoning for doing this. As I stated, Fionn has already done up a couple of maps with some tactics that he devised.

My aim for this thread is to work out some tactics and USE them in battle to see how effective they are.

We can always tweak the tactics afterwards with input from everyone, but to stick to a plan each time to give the tactic the best chance of working.

I totally agree, TS is a MUST. But, in order for 15 people to effectively communicate on TS, there must be rules. I have gamed competitively using TS in the BF series, so have a good understanding of what works and what doesn't with regard to comms - there's no sense having everyone on TS is everyone is trying to shout over each other.

I think it may also be important to have 1 or 2 guys to be 'in command'. This is to ensure that all tactics are adhered to, and everyone knows their role without going off willy nilly and getting killed. This will also serve to have 1 or 2 people dynamically change tactics if they see fit, without tankers deciding to go somewhere of their own accord, leaving the rest of us in the lurch.

The key word I suppose is 'organisation'. If we have any ambitions of becoming at least competitive with clans of a similar size (and we're growing) we need organisation. Otherwise its just a bunch of lads playing a game and we'll never get anywhere.

Of course - this may be exactly all that people want, I don't know. But personally I'd rather organisation and structure, and to compete.

If we get enough interest in this, I have no problem getting the ball rolling, and some structures / rules in place.

copeyhagen

somebody needs to take the role of leader and give the order on which tank to attack.

back in my MOH:AA team IRE cup days we always had a leader there giving the orders so to speak. deffo a good point was made about attacking multi tanks, when we should be attacking the same target.

our tank list is getting higher tier wise, so we're only gonna get better

Dublin_Gunner

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Also can people have there TS set to push to talk, the time I was on the server somebody had an open mic and all I could hear was background noise!

This will be one of the TS rules going forward. Failure to use PTT will result in being booted from TS.

copeyhagen

thats probably my brother, such a rtard.
all you can hear is him typing, sounds like a typewriter

Dublin_Gunner

copeyhagen wrote: »

thats probably my brother, such a rtard.
all you can hear is him typing, sounds like a typewriter

DotC too. I think its DotC has been on the past couple of nights with open mic.

sionnach

There should definitely be a leader for overall instructions and also one assigned for each group of tanks at each choke point. Overall leader won't be able to effectively call targets if he's not physically part of the individual battles. It could be confusing at first with a few people speaking together at once, but as time goes by we'll get better at recognising each other's voices and it won't be as much of a problem.

In eve-online battles a well organised gang will always have one leader calling targets, with a primary and a secondary target constantly being relayed so the instant the primary dies you can open up on the secondary without hesitation. > implement this.

Other people on ts should only speak when it's information relevant to the battle, absolutely no chatter.

I've only just decided to play the full game and I'm going through the heartbreak of playing with absolutely woeful tanks. Once I've gotten my trusty Hummel and a t-44, I'll join the clan.

Dodgy

Dublin_Gunner

sionnach wrote: »

There should definitely be a leader for overall instructions and also one assigned for each group of tanks at each choke point. Overall leader won't be able to effectively call targets if he's not physically part of the individual battles. It could be confusing at first with a few people speaking together at once, but as time goes by we'll get better at recognising each other's voices and it won't be as much of a problem.

In eve-online battles a well organised gang will always have one leader calling targets, with a primary and a secondary target constantly being relayed so the instant the primary dies you can open up on the secondary without hesitation. > implement this.

Other people on ts should only speak when it's information relevant to the battle, absolutely no chatter.

I've only just decided to play the full game and I'm going through the heartbreak of playing with absolutely woeful tanks. Once I've gotten my trusty Hummel and a t-44, I'll join the clan.

Dodgy

Basically, this is how I'll want the TS set up:

WoT Channel

---

commander (can hear everyone, preferably an SPG so not much movement required)

---

Platoon 1
Platoon 1 Leader
platoon 1 tank 1
platoon 1 tank 2
platoon 1 tank 3
platoon 1 tank 4

---

Platoon 2
Platoon 2 Leader
platoon 2 tank 1
platoon 2 tank 2
platoon 2 tank 3
platoon 2 tank 4

---

Platoon 3
Platoon 3 Leader
platoon 3 tank 1
platoon 3 tank 2
platoon 3 tank 3


Basically, 2 squads of 5, 1 squad of 4. TS can be set up with 'channel commanders'. How this works is simple.

Commander can hear all platoon leaders. Platoon leaders can hear their own platoon, and can hear the other platoon leaders and the commander.

This way, only 3 people get to speak with the commander, so issuing or orders / directions is a LOT easier.

Each platoon leader can then issue the orders to their platoon, or indeed relay information back to the other platoon leaders and the commander.

It works VERY well. A maximum of 4 voices for everyone at any given time.

Dublin_Gunner

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Good idea Dublin, I would suggest breaking the platoons down to their function i.e Medium Tiers/TD/Heavys.

Ah yeah, well it would really depend on function.

We could have platoons based on the following depending:

Arty (SPG's), Base defence (2 heavy's 3 TD's), assault (high tier mediums / fast heavy), assault support (4/5 heavy's), attack suppression (mostly TD's, positioned halfway between base and halfway point on map), Scout group (2 lights / 3 meds for support, or even just a small 3 tank scout unit).

And so on.

The platoons in TS could be named accordingly. SO I could have two sections 1) named as it currently is, for general gaming and platooning, 2) a seperate section broken down as per the above for clan matches.

The Platoon leaders need a bit of dexterity - they will require 2 ptt buttons, 1 to talk to squad, 1 to talk to the other PL's and Commander.

I would also suggest type of etiquette when on TS for matches. If you wish to speak, state your nick - your PL will then give permission to talk.

Similarly with PL's and the commander. This prevents people talking over one another, and vital information being mis-heard or not heard at all.

It gets complicated, but with a bit of practice it works incredibly well.

Manic Moran

I believe an arty platoon should consist of two guns and a Forward Observer, not three guns. The FO could be a scout to a heavy, either works depending on play style. The biggest problems artillery have are
1) The scouting unit doesn't keep the target scouted for long enough, and the target vanishes before the sight has zeroed in.
2) The scouting unit doesn't know/comprehend the ramifications of the fact that he is being supported by artillery, and tries to deal with the target himself, resulting in death, or dissuades the enemy vehicle from coming around the corner into the line of fire of the arty.

The third thing that the FO can do to help the artillery is to aim at the tracks of the target.

I think this will result in far more kill/damage caused to the enemy by an artillery platoon than an all-gun platoon.

NTM

Dublin_Gunner

Manic Moran wrote: »

I believe an arty platoon should consist of two guns and a Forward Observer, not three guns. The FO could be a scout to a heavy, either works depending on play style. The biggest problems artillery have are
1) The scouting unit doesn't keep the target scouted for long enough, and the target vanishes before the sight has zeroed in.
2) The scouting unit doesn't know/comprehend the ramifications of the fact that he is being supported by artillery, and tries to deal with the target himself, resulting in death, or dissuades the enemy vehicle from coming around the corner into the line of fire of the arty.

The third thing that the FO can do to help the artillery is to aim at the tracks of the target.

I think this will result in far more kill/damage caused to the enemy by an artillery platoon than an all-gun platoon.

NTM

FO is a good idea, I had originally thought of having a seperate platoon for scouts, of which the PL can stay in contact with the arty PL. I'd also rather 2 scouts depending on the map.

Having them all in the one platoon does indeed make sense though.

3 arty + 2 FO would be a fairly formidable force in WoT.

Manic Moran

At the clan level when you can guarantee that you'll have two platoons in the same fight, fine. But if it's just three guys making a platoon in a random battle...

NTM

Dublin_Gunner

Manic Moran wrote: »

At the clan level when you can guarantee that you'll have two platoons in the same fight, fine. But if it's just three guys making a platoon in a random battle...

NTM

Ah well this thread is for clan v clan. Not designed for random battle tactics at all.

Nody

Throwing this in here as best location as they will help and is part of tactics:
Number of tiers available in any clan
Removal of FPS drop and black circle when zoomed in
Lists tank tier and country on tab screen
Tank skins with weak points

zil

Wow those armour skins are amazing, just to double check, the devs allow mods like this right?

Nody

zil wrote: »

Wow those armour skins are amazing, just to double check, the devs allow mods like this right?

All links are back to the forum and according to this thread the answer is no they don't consider it cheating (mod confirmation on page 2).

Nody

Also if someone could make this sub folder: <WoT folder name>\res\gui\maps\vehicles\Contour\ available to me it would be greatly appreciated (should be around 1.3 MB) as I managed to overwrite my back up copy .

Auvers

to add to Nodys skins and Icons

try the bigger mini-map mod

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27983671/ZooMinimap2.rar

Dublin_Gunner

Auvers wrote: »

to add to Nodys skins and Icons

try the bigger mini-map mod

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/27983671/ZooMinimap2.rar

Now that is something I'd personally find VERY useful.

Auvers

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

Now that is something I'd personally find VERY useful.

yeah its brilliant at higher resolutions like 1280x1024 as you can actually make out the squares

I also use an update of POGs 3.2 icons for version 0.6.4 by GREPA its really helpful to see the armour values in battle

Download link for icons

Dublin_Gunner

Auvers wrote: »

yeah its brilliant at higher resolutions like 1280x1024 as you can actually make out the squares

I also use an update of POGs 3.2 icons for version 0.6.4 by GREPA its really helpful to see the armour values in battle

Download link for icons

?? Thats hardly a high res!!! Maybe 10 years ago... I play at 1920x1080, so the mini-map is a pain to see where tanks are.

Those icons are cool. Might give them a go.

Auvers

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

?? Thats hardly a high res!!! Maybe 10 years ago... I play at 1920x1080, so the mini-map is a pain to see where tanks are..

sorry 1920x1080 is what I meant to say dunno where I pulled out the other res

as that's the res I play at also

copeyhagen

some good links there, im using a different icon mod, doesnt have the armoro values, but i find it a lot easier on the eye.

i can see the armor values being handy though.

Karma

LIGHTNING wrote: »

Also can people have there TS set to push to talk, the time I was on the server somebody had an open mic and all I could hear was background noise!

that was me one night when 3 people called over- you muted me- think that was the last time i talked on ts, as i was muted for the next 2 times-not happy- i can only ptt in a platoon(muted on the main, so whats the point there.)one was tomy but i got blamed for that when i was muted :P


as far as tactics goes, we are the worst and tonight may be my last night of it as i play better with strangers. the plan fcuks off right from the start, anyone for another lemming rush...:rolleyes:
If your not on Ts, dont bother playing, . the only success i have had was in platoon combat(where we worked together)

So, can we play one map till we start wining? dont care which.

can we meet up to play company games1 hour before our clan battles.
I thought our clan games were to be about 8, not 7 or 6. whoever decides on the times, please get us to a time where more are available. that been said, the amount of times we have had people online and not show...FFS. we all have done it.

can we have a list of tanks needed for battles and who's responsible for them?

I will always rather be a scout than arty and I can follow any decent plan.
(arty, let people know your loaded, so they can call you in. I will spot over shooting, as i wont survive otherwise)
so, i am a tier 7 scout(VK3002DB)

I again,offer a simple and sound strategy of a scout(scouts-fast mediums) line ahead of the main defence(heavies, the odd td and medium) line. Scouts spotting, defensive platoons firing as one at one target. line 3/4 being spg and td around the base. not complicated, and we take it from there?

this would work best with 2-3scouts with 500m view range. mediums on the flanks to protect the heavies and td's in the middle. simples...

my two pieces of gold...see you at 6.30

ps
which version of ts are we on. it needs to be up well before the battle(i downloaded one myself- will check it out this weekend- a backup and such.

Dublin_Gunner

Karma wrote: »

that was me one night when 3 people called over- you muted me- think that was the last time i talked on ts, as i was muted for the next 2 times-not happy- i can only ptt in a platoon(muted on the main, so whats the point there.)one was tomy but i got blamed for that when i was muted :P


as far as tactics goes, we are the worst and tonight may be my last night of it as i play better with strangers. the plan fcuks off right from the start, anyone for another lemming rush...:rolleyes:
If your not on Ts, dont bother playing, . the only success i have had was in platoon combat(where we worked together)

So, can we play one map till we start wining? dont care which.

can we meet up to play company games1 hour before our clan battles.
I thought our clan games were to be about 8, not 7 or 6. whoever decides on the times, please get us to a time where more are available. that been said, the amount of times we have had people online and not show...FFS. we all have done it.

can we have a list of tanks needed for battles and who's responsible for them?

I will always rather be a scout than arty and I can follow any decent plan.
(arty, let people know your loaded, so they can call you in. I will spot over shooting, as i wont survive otherwise)
so, i am a tier 7 scout(VK3002DB)

I again,offer a simple and sound strategy of a scout(scouts-fast mediums) line ahead of the main defence(heavies, the odd td and medium) line. Scouts spotting, defensive platoons firing as one at one target. line 3/4 being spg and td around the base. not complicated, and we take it from there?

this would work best with 2-3scouts with 500m view range. mediums on the flanks to protect the heavies and td's in the middle. simples...

my two pieces of gold...see you at 6.30

ps
which version of ts are we on. it needs to be up well before the battle(i downloaded one myself- will check it out this weekend- a backup and such.

Well in relation to TS - I'm the only one that can mute you server wide, and I certainly didn't. We all thought you muted yourself....

There's no reason why you can't use PTT in main or platoons.

On getting TS up early - well that's only possible if I'm home early as I run the TS server from my main rig. I'd like to build a little linux box for TS duties, but dont have it at the moment.
So if I'm home early, it will be on, if not, it will be on when I'm home.

I usually have it running even if I'm not in game, or on the computer myself, so its usually ALWAYS up by 6.30pm (though I've been workin late the past few days).

Well Karma - you have been given the access by Ponster to set matches, yet you havent.

DeWinter organised the 6.30pm match today, as I asked him or you to get something organised as I couldn;t yesterday.

DeWinter obviously didn;t realise Croatia is a different time zone.

The latest landing battle schedule happens at 7pm. This is the latest. This means the majority of the battles we will be involved in will start 7.30 - 8pm.

There is nothing that can be done about this as has been explained numerous times before.

On the player no-show: this is something that really grinds my gears.

Most days I take time out to organise matches, post up match info etc etc yet its only ever the same 8-10 players on, give or take. Its not fair on the guys that turn up just about every day for the matches.

We've had days where we've had 17 on, yet only 11 went into the battle - that's an effing joke if you ask me.

Anyway - this is not the thread to discuss this sort of thing, and I'd like to get this thread cleaned up if possible, and these posts put into the main WoT thread.

TS version is Version 3 - it just updated yesterday, so get the latest version.