€25k invested in prize bonds

John arse

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925490#Comment_120925490

They don't reveal people’s identities you know?

Oscar Madison

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120926075#Comment_120926075

I know that!

Mikefitzs

Thank you.

WhiteMan32

Winnings on 4th August 2023 on €111k: €50

Last win on 28th July 2023: €50

Hibernicis

On a little roll......

Winnings on 4th August 2023 - €100

Winnings on 14th July 2023 - €100

Winnings on 7th July 2023 - €100

Three of the six winning bonds were purchased in the first half of this year. The other three were purchased in the second half of 2017.

Bubbles tonight !

pbwinner

Winnings on 4th August 2023: €0

Last win 7th July 2023: €50

Total winnings on €25k from Feb 2011 to date: €3300

2011: €75 x 4 = €300

2012: €75 x 6 = €450

2013: €50 x 12 = €600

2014: €50 x 9 = €450

2015: €50 x 5 = €250

2016: €50 x 5 = €250

2017: €50 x 4 = €200

2018: €50 x 2 = €100

2019: €50 x 6 = €300

2020: €50 x 5 = €250

2021: €50 x 1 = €50

2022: €50 x 1 = €50

2023: €50 x 1 = €50

POBox19

People are getting out of Prize Bonds, selling up. No surprise really given that better returns are available now.

"The value of the prize fund is recalculated at the end of every month, in line with the monthly net sales of Prize Bonds." So, for the third month the number and value of prizes has dropped, Therefore net sales are negative, more are being repaid than sold. May was probably the peak in prize bond investment as the decline in prizes began in June.

Will the NTMA move the 0.35% before the year end?

pummice

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120938791#Comment_120938791

What better returns are out there?

dxhound2005

The number of €50 prizes in the August draws is 4,595 up from 4,568 in July. The increase of 27 is the same as between June and July. Newest bond to win on 01 July was BAU 233910, newest 05 August BBB 715668, sales of around €47 million.

Nothing for me today. The above is from my post #8192 on Page 274 05 August 2022. The actual sales in July 2022 were €47.301 million, so my methodology is accurate. The number of €50 prizes in the August 2023 draws is 4,791 down from 4,809 in July. The newest bond to win on 07 July was BEK 750751, newest 04 August BEQ 329790, sales of around €34.87 million. That BEQ bond was bought by someone in Portugal.

As has been stated this is the third month where the number of prizes has come down, indicating that more bonds were cashed in than new ones bought. This won't prompt the NTMA to increase the interest rate. They have been trying for years without success to deter the ever increasing inflow to the fund.

Hibernicis

@POBox19 Will the NTMA move the 0.35% before the year end?

They might. And then again they mightn't.

For - NTMA/State Savings current rates are low and well behind the market in most cases, and they are penalising small savers and the less financially literate in particular.

Against - NTMA/State Savings don't need an inflow of funds. They already reviewed rates once in 2023, and with their weak systems, weak processes and general inertia a second review may be beyond their capabilities. An increase in State Savings rates could lead to a increase in the retail banks deposit rates and a corresponding increase in mortgage rates - McGrath and the Government may feel that annoying savers with low returns is lower risk than annoying mortgage holders with another increase in rates.

In conclusion, they might. And then again they mightn't.

pummice

Anyone know if its possible for one prize bond number to win twice in the same day?

dxhound2005

The €50,000 winner was bought in 2009.

https://www.radiokerry.ie/news/kerry-prize-bond-holder-wins-e50000-in-weekly-draw-341850

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120940396#Comment_120940396

I don’t believe so. The general rules for most draws are that the prizes are drawn in descending order, so the entrant/ticket is in with a chance of the top or highest remaining prize. As each prize winning ticket is drawn it is then set aside. I seem to remember that the rules for the conduct of the prize bond draws were set out in one of the early statutory instruments in the fifties, back when the numbers were drawn manually from steel drums and these would have been carried over when the draws switched to computer software based operation in the nineties. You could read through the SIs if you want a conclusive answer.

dxhound2005

There are a couple of references to it on the website:

"Is my Prize Bond included in every draw?

All elligible* Prize Bonds numbers are included in each draw until such time as the Prize Bond number is repaid. Each individual Prize Bond number is eligible to win one prize in every draw.

*An eligible Prize Bond number is one that is active and has not been repaid."

"A single Prize Bond number is eligible to win one prize in each weekly draw."

dxhound2005

Nothing for me today. The €50K went to Wexford for the second time recent weeks. Bond bought in 2013. 7 of the 10 €1K prizes went to Dublin, 2 to Meath and 1 to Louth, a clean sweep for the east coast.

"This week’s Prize Bond star prize of €50,000 goes to the lucky person holding the number SW340447, which is held in County Wexford. The lucky bond was purchased in 2013."

pbwinner

Winnings on 11th August 2023: €0

Last win 7th July 2023: €50

Total winnings on €25k from Feb 2011 to date: €3300

2011: €75 x 4 = €300

2012: €75 x 6 = €450

2013: €50 x 12 = €600

2014: €50 x 9 = €450

2015: €50 x 5 = €250

2016: €50 x 5 = €250

2017: €50 x 4 = €200

2018: €50 x 2 = €100

2019: €50 x 6 = €300

2020: €50 x 5 = €250

2021: €50 x 1 = €50

2022: €50 x 1 = €50

2023: €50 x 1 = €50

Hibernicis

We can only stand and stare and clutch our .35% tightly. The UK return is now over 13 times greater than Irish Prize Bonds.

Millions of holders of premium bonds will see the prize fund rise to its highest level in 24 years and their chances of winning a prize increase from September’s draw.

NS&I, the government-backed organisation that runs the monthly draw, said it would increase the rate from 4% to 4.65% next month, adding £66m to the prize fund.

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/aug/08/premium-bonds-prize-fund-rises-to-highest-level-in-24-years?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

POBox19

NS&I are showing the September prize fund at £405 million. By contrast the January prize fund was a mere £299 million an increase of 35%.

Average paid now is £73.33 (~€86) V's €65.78 here year to date.

footfall789

Just curious,

would anyone know the percentage rate paid out since 2012 to 2021 for prize bonds e.g 2022 was .35% , 2023 rate is ........35%.

footfall789

Hibernicis

It's all here, courtesy of @dxhound2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119589888#Comment_119589888

Some additional information you might be interested in, depending on the reasons for your query

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2017-02-23/139

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2016-06-02/151

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/question/2014-12-18/139

cloudatlas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120925490#Comment_120925490

The Premium bonds service in the UK anonymise the data and tell you exactly what the bond win was and the amount held! Argh!

Oscar Madison

I'm not quite sure what your point is here Cloudatlas?

We are quite obviously not the UK & what ever rules govern their

system shouldn't impact on our system here!

pbwinner

Winnings on 18th August 2023: €0

Last win 7th July 2023: €50

Total winnings on €25k from Feb 2011 to date: €3300

2011: €75 x 4 = €300

2012: €75 x 6 = €450

2013: €50 x 12 = €600

2014: €50 x 9 = €450

2015: €50 x 5 = €250

2016: €50 x 5 = €250

2017: €50 x 4 = €200

2018: €50 x 2 = €100

2019: €50 x 6 = €300

2020: €50 x 5 = €250

2021: €50 x 1 = €50

2022: €50 x 1 = €50

2023: €50 x 1 = €50

dxhound2005

Nothing for me today. There are 21 winning bonds in Monaghan, with two people getting 2 x €50.

Prize Value Winning Prize Bond Location

€50.00 AAT038047 Monaghan

€50.00 AAT038329 Monaghan

€50.00 APR756024 Monaghan

€50.00 APR757825 Monaghan

dxhound2005

The Minister for Finance was on RTE Radio 1 News at One Friday 18 August. He says there will be an improvement in some NTMA rates soon. Listen at 31 minutes 50.

https://www.rte.ie/radio/radio1/news-at-one/programmes/2023/0818/1400466-news-at-one-friday-18-august-2023/

Hibernicis

@dxhound2005 Thanks for the link to the interview.

I like his use of the phrase that the Banks need to treat all customer's fairly. That's taken straight from the Consumer code !!

Interesting that he admits that the ECB rate has increased over the last year by 4.25% and "the passthrough" to as he refers to it to savers has been low. WRONG Michael. In the case of Prize Bonds, a product which is under your control, "the passthrough" hasn't been low, it's been ZERO.

At the end of July 2022 the ECB Rate was 0%. Prize bond rate was 0.35%

A year later, at the start of August 2023 the ECB rate is a whopping 4.25%, and the Prize Bond rate is still 0.35%.

The isn't "low" passthrough. That's a big fat whopping ZERO from you Michael.

Atlantis50

Just listened to his interview and he signaled that not all state savings products will see an increase in the coming weeks, only "certain" ones.

Will they have the audacity to skip increasing the PB rate again?

McGrath was quick to criticise the cut from 0.85% to 0.5% in 2017 but was happy for the paltry 0.35% to remain unchanged earlier in the year.

Fianna Fáil finance spokesman Michael McGrath branded the NTMA’s Prize Bond decision as short-sighted and disappointing. “The result is a reduction in the number of opportunities to become a millionaire,” said McGrath. “The Prize Bond was established to encourage small individual savers to invest in the State's funds. Despite their investments not accruing interest, many small investors chose Prize Bonds specifically in the hope of winning a large cash prize.

“Reductions in the number of opportunities to win such prizes will, I have no doubt, reduce the attractiveness of Prize Bonds to small investors. Many people who have Prize Bonds are elderly people or people who have inherited them from a loved one. Removing the attractiveness of the product is short sighted decision by the NTMA, and one which should be reviewed."

https://businessplus.ie/news/prize-bonds-payouts-slashed-by-40/

Atlantis50

And let's not forget with Michael McGrath had to say about another PB rate cut in 2016 link began posting it here late last year:

Savers short changed as prize bond pay out slashed – FF

Published on: 10 June 2016

Fianna Fáil Spokesperson on Finance Michael McGrath says savers have been left short changed following a 60% fall in the amount of money paid out under prize bonds. Deputy McGrath made the comments after receiving information from Minister for Finance Michael Noonan which shows that there is now a record €2.68bn in Prize Bond savings while the amount of prizes paid out fell to €28.9m last year.

Deputy McGrath said, “The continuing popularity of prize bonds can be seen from the fact that the total amount in the prize bond fund has increased by 86 per cent since the end of 2011. Clearly the public are attracted by the tax free nature of prizes paid at a time when DIRT tax rates have been massively increased.

“However it’s important to remember that prize bonds do not pay interest and the real value of holdings is reduced by inflation over time. Many savers will feel short changed by the massive reduction in prizes being paid out.

“I accept that it was inevitable there was going to be some reduction in the proportion of the prize bond fund paid as these are effectively a proxy for interest on the money invested in the scheme. However Prize Bond savers will be shocked to learn that the amount of prizes paid as a proportion of the year end value of the fund has fallen from 2.9% in 2011 to just 1.16% in 2015.

“Prize bond holders are in for a further hit after the recent announcement that from next month the top prize of €1 million will now only be won 4 times a year whereas it was previously paid on six occasions. The number of smaller prizes ranging from €50 to €1,000 is also being reduced.

“Given the reduction in the level of pay out, prize bond savers need to carefully consider if their money is getting the best return for them. Some people will obviously like the chance of winning a big prize in the draw and will be happy to hold on to their investment. However others may need a real return on their savings and now is an opportune time for them to possibly consider other options such as the 10 year State Solidarity bond offered by the NTMA.

“The prize bond issue highlights once again the very poor environment for savers in Ireland, made worse by massive increases in DIRT tax rates. This is an issue which will need to be addressed in future budgets,” concluded Deputy McGrath.

The link started showing an "Error 400" shortly after I started posting it on this forum late last year (FF people monitoring their website traffic obviously identified that this press release was now inconvenient for McGrath) but is fortunately available via the Wayback Machine archive:

https://web.archive.org/web/20221205073001/https://www.fiannafail.ie/news/savers-short-changed-as-prize-bond-pay-out-slashed-ff

Hibernicis

@Atlantis50 thanks for posting these. I’ve posted them previously in this thread and had the same issue with FF conveniently taking down McGrath’s words so he doesn’t have to eat them. It’s good to see them resurface

His shrill demands for action in those statements are in stark contrast to his reluctant wishy-washy words yesterday, words that had to be put in his mouth and then dragged back out again.

“Asked whether the National Treasury Management Agency would consider increasing the rates paid on State savings products, Mr McGrath said it was examining the issue and he expected there would be changes announced shortly.”

whispering1

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2023/0821/1400812-mcgrath-on-interest-rates/