€25k invested in prize bonds

pbwinner

Winnings on 3rd November 2023: €0

Last win 7th July 2023: €50

Total winnings on €25k from Feb 2011 to date: €3300

2011: €75 x 4 = €300

2012: €75 x 6 = €450

2013: €50 x 12 = €600

2014: €50 x 9 = €450

2015: €50 x 5 = €250

2016: €50 x 5 = €250

2017: €50 x 4 = €200

2018: €50 x 2 = €100

2019: €50 x 6 = €300

2020: €50 x 5 = €250

2021: €50 x 1 = €50

2022: €50 x 1 = €50

2023: €50 x 1 = €50

dxhound2005

Nothing for me today. A 1957 bond from Donegal won €1,000.

The number of €75 prizes in the November draws is 9,382 down from 9,468 in October. The newest bond to win on 06 October was BEZ 971119, newest 03 November BFF 303166. Sales of around €33.325 million. Sales in October 2022 were €48.575 million.

Hibernicis

Thanks @dxhound2005 Your weekly reviews always make for interesting reading.

POBox19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121321558#Comment_121321558

If the number and value of prizes is dropping it indicates that the total fund has reduced with repayments to holders getting out being more then new investment coming in. If the trend continues it could pressure the NTMA to increase the % return paid out. My bet would Q1 of 2024.

Sligo Quay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121321558#Comment_121321558

I see the Greek bond holder this week had 2 wins total €150euro, two €75euro, any idea what their holding is from your calculations.

Nothing as usual for poor aul me this week.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121322592#Comment_121322592

I wouldn’t read too much into a drop in holdings/deposits at this time of year. Traditionally professionals and other self employed lob cash into PB and other deposits as they receive it during the year and then withdraw in/around October when preliminary tax is due. That said, there is a lot going on in the savings/deposit market at present and it is inevitable that there will be some movement away from PB and State Savings generally given the poor rates they are offering. State Savings, being one of the laziest, most lethargic and inefficient organisations on the planet, will resist an upward rate change with all their might given the fact that it generates an enormous amount of hard work for them, especially in the case of the fixed term products, until they are once again forced to do so. Of course we live in hope but I wouldn’t be holding my breath……

dxhound2005

My guess is that they would have gone for a round figure. In which case it would be €400,000, 64,000 bonds. ZH is from before the €250,000 limit. From memory they have had winners ranging from ZH759xxx to ZH821xxx which would confirm that. Also they do not own ZH826193.

Ignoring the change a month ago, €400K would expect to win 10 x €50 in six months. So with 9 prizes, they are around that average.

Winnings in the last 6 months

All Greece except ZH826193 Dublin.

For ZH750000 - ZH830000

Draw Date Prize Value Prize Bond Number

03 Nov 2023 €75.00 ZH794637

03 Nov 2023 €75.00 ZH806093 Highest.

20 Oct 2023 €75.00 ZH782032

13 Oct 2023 €75.00 ZH765621 Lowest.

22 Sep 2023 €50.00 ZH798395

01 Sep 2023 €50.00 ZH799484

25 Aug 2023 €50.00 ZH826193

21 Jul 2023 €50.00 ZH786390

07 Jul 2023 €50.00 ZH786954

19 May 2023 €50.00 ZH791076

dxhound2005

There was a bit of media attention and political pressure a while back to increase deposit rates. This seems to have died down now. And the underlying position remains that there is well over €100 billion in accounts which people are happy to leave earning next to nothing. Ironically the Credit Union movement was voted the most trusted organisation recently. But they don't even let people know how much interest they will pay until the end of the year. And I think we can be sure that 2023 will not be much of an improvement over the measly (usually 0%) rates in the last few year. There is far more money in Credit Unions that in Prize Bonds.

"Credit unions have been ranked as number one among the top one hundred most highly regarded organisations in Ireland, in the Ireland RepTrak® 2023 annual study. Credit Unions have consistently featured in the top two of the annual study for the past five years."

The NTMA do not need to borrow more money from the Irish public, so I would not expect any more deposit rate rises anytime soon. Especially if inflation does not increase. If they wanted more money from us, they would make it move attractive to save with them. And take away the limits they imposed a few years ago on how much people can save.

From 01 September 2023:

Dave McEvoy, NTMA Director of Funding and Debt Management, said:

“In setting interest rates on State Savings, the NTMA seeks a balance between providing customers with a savings option and providing long-term value to the Exchequer in terms of managing the cost of borrowing.

Rates are subject to ongoing review and take account of a number of factors, which include the wider interest rate environment, the strength of the State’s fiscal and funding position, and competitive developments in the retail savings market.”

Negative_G

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120504836#Comment_120504836

Winnings on Oct 27th 2023: €75

Last win 14th April 2023: €50

Previous win 9th Dec 2022: €50

Total winnings since Feb 2015 on €50k: €1,675

Total winnings since Oct 2015 on €20K: €350

A BIG DAY for the parish on the first €75 win in 8 years odd. /sarcasm

Hibernicis

No disrespect @dxhound2005 but this isn’t about paying a higher rate to attract an inflow of funds. State savings and prize bonds in particular were about allowing the “man in the street” to participate in and benefit from the National Debt. The government is currently paying approx three times as much to institutional investors who trade in Government Bonds as they do to Prize Bond holders. There is simply NO justification for this. In line with the original objectives of Prize Bonds when they were introduced, and as a matter of basic fairness, the notional rate applying to prize bonds should be similar to the rate applying to Government Bond issues, absenting some small difference to allow for the efficient administration of PB. 

I’m s**t sick of this “Ireland doesn’t need more money therefore shouldn’t pay market rates” line. We are paying market rates to the vast majority of our lenders, i.e. holders of government bonds. We are singling out the small holders (state savings clients) and treating them shabbily. Ireland is among the most indebted nation in the developed world. Our current tax bonanza and our piggybacking on the fundamentally strong currencies and economies of Europe aside, we are still borrowing money. PB account for approx. 2% of the National Debt. Gerald Sweetman, who as MOF introduced Prize bonds, said when introducing the enabling legislation in 1956 “Prize bonds will form a useful addition to the existing measures for the encouragement of savings and should appeal to a large section of the community if not to all.” Or to put it in the words of the very duplicitous Michael McGrath 

“The Prize Bond was established to encourage small individual savers to invest in the State’s funds. Each Prize Bond is placed into a draw every month and has a chance of winning a tax-free cash prize.

“Despite their investments not accruing interest, many small investors chose Prize Bonds specifically in the hope of winning a large cash prize. Reductions in the number of opportunities to win such prizes will, I have no doubt, reduce the attractiveness of Prize Bonds to small investors.

“Many people who have Prize Bonds are elderly people or people who have inherited them from a loved one. Many other people have put their money into Prize Bonds in order to save and to assist the State in raising vital funds.

“Removing the attractiveness of the product is short sighted decision by the NTMA, and one which should be reviewed,” concluded Deputy McGrath.

Needless to mention that was in 2017 when he sat on the opposition benches. His promotion to ministerial office appears to have caused a brain fart that cleared his head of all such “common man” and “we the people” notions. And now that he is in a position to actually do something about it he is sitting on his hands and doing SFA. Talk, as they say, is very very cheap. 

/end_of_rant

POBox19

True, they could easily pay the prize bond holder a higher return. The market bond pays various rates up to 5.92%.

The UK premium bond pays 4.65% with odds of 21,000:1 with a £1 bond. You'd have to invest a lot more here to get close to 1:1 in the draw.

willycat

I got another unexpected €75 win today.

Since they increased the rates to 1% in October, I've won two €75 prices in 6 drafts and I just have €3000 invested in them. Crazy!

This equals to 5% AER (tax free, which would be more than 7% AER for a regular savings/deposit paying DIRT) assuming I don't get any other win within the last 7 weeks of 2023.

The Continental Op

My 5k netted nothing this week or last week.

Hibernicis

Congratulations. Your saved Prize Bond numbers have won €150.00 since you last logged in.

pbwinner

Winnings on 10th November 2023: €0

Last win 7th July 2023: €50

Total winnings on €25k from Feb 2011 to date: €3300

2011: €75 x 4 = €300

2012: €75 x 6 = €450

2013: €50 x 12 = €600

2014: €50 x 9 = €450

2015: €50 x 5 = €250

2016: €50 x 5 = €250

2017: €50 x 4 = €200

2018: €50 x 2 = €100

2019: €50 x 6 = €300

2020: €50 x 5 = €250

2021: €50 x 1 = €50

2022: €50 x 1 = €50

2023: €50 x 1 = €50

Sligo Quay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121324304#Comment_121324304

Another win today for Greek bond holder ZH809945.

Anyway €75 euro for me today on my 30k batch, last win for me 12th May, total wins in 2023 €125 euro.

dxhound2005

ZH823535 also won today, but that is a Dublin bond. It narrows down the Greek holding a bit further.

Nothing for me today.

Sligo Quay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121351023#Comment_121351023

Yes it is crazy, but you're just incredibly lucky, don't get too excited, maybe just a lucky roll, I've 3 batches, 10k 20k 30k total 60k a total of 9,000 bonds plus 100 bonds from the 1980s 9,700 bonds and only 2 wins this year a €50 and €75.

I live in hope, I dream big and there's always next Friday.

AyeGer

Anyone having bother withdrawing money from their state savings account. It doesn’t seem to be working for me today. I can log in and navigate about the site but the cash in link isn’t working.

John arse

1 X €75 in Oct on €70k,2 wins in 2023 so far,(€125).

pbwinner

Winnings on 11th November 2023: €0

Last win 7th July 2023: €50

Total winnings on €25k from Feb 2011 to date: €3300

2011: €75 x 4 = €300

2012: €75 x 6 = €450

2013: €50 x 12 = €600

2014: €50 x 9 = €450

2015: €50 x 5 = €250

2016: €50 x 5 = €250

2017: €50 x 4 = €200

2018: €50 x 2 = €100

2019: €50 x 6 = €300

2020: €50 x 5 = €250

2021: €50 x 1 = €50

2022: €50 x 1 = €50

2023: €50 x 1 = €50

VonLuck

For anyone that has requested repayment of Prize Bonds, how do you complete the form? They seem to be looking for individual prize bond numbers.

Just a random example, lets say I have a range ABC100000 to ABC100400. If I wanted to take out €700, would I put down ABC100000 to ABC100112? Each one is worth €6.25 so 100112 minus 100000 times €6.25 = €700. Is that right?

willycat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121361921#Comment_121361921

I'd strongly suggest to register for online State Savings. You can request that at statesavings.ie and it takes about 1-2 weeks to get all the necessary info to register your account. Then you can cash them by SEPA transfers (1-2 working days) just adding your bank account. Easier than completing tedious forms, and from that moment on, you can always buy/cash online, no need to go to AnPost nor complete any other form.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362204#Comment_121362204

Oh right! I am registered I think as I can track my prize bonds online. They don't make it very clear as they tell you in order to reclaim you have to fill out a form!

willycat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121354843#Comment_121354843

Oh I know, I honestly wasn't expecting anything from these 3k. I had 30k in bonds last year and just had one €50 win, but since then I moved most of these to to 3-4% AER accounts, and just left those 3k hanging in there. Looks like it was a good idea after all.

POBox19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362221#Comment_121362221

Tracking your bond numbers online is not the same as a State Savings online a/c. As @willycat says it takes a couple of weeks to do. You'll need an SSCN, State Savings Customer Number, which you apply for and they send by post before opening the a/c. It's a bit convoluted, you just have to work through it.

Start the process by clicking the 'Register' link on statesavings.ie.

willycat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362289#Comment_121362289

Yes, correct!

So here are the steps:

1) Request your SSCN:

"To request details of your SSCN, please Contact us, and we will send confirmation of your SSCN to your Registered Address." (click the link, get in touch with them, and they will send you the SSCN to your post address in 1-2 weeks)

2) When you get your SSCN:

Go to Statesavings.ie and click "Register now". They will ask for your SSCN.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362289#Comment_121362289

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362309#Comment_121362309

So I tried doing this and it says that my registration is in process! Maybe I did this a long time ago, but I don't recall receiving a letter. Very strange.

POBox19

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362836#Comment_121362836

I'd give them a call at this stage.

Hibernicis

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121362204#Comment_121362204

You are correct; registering for an online account is definitely the way to go as it avoids the need for those paper forms and also avoids having to put up with State Savings and The PBC's gaff prone customer service. I'd caution about the expectation you are setting in relation to the registration process and based on a few experiences I've been involved with I would suggest that 4-6 weeks is a more realistic timeframe for jumping through the hoops. However it's a once off and is worthwhile in the long term.