Clubs with Irish origins.

NufcNavan

I can think of a few off the top of my head. Here it goes:

Bohemians
Shamrock Rovers
Drogheda United
UCD
Bray Wanderers
Sligo Rovers
St. Pats Athletic
Galway United
Dundalk FC
Derry City
Shelbourne
Limerick
Mervue
Athlone Town
Finn Harps
Salthill Devon
Limerick FC
Longford Town
Cork City
Monaghan United
Waterford United
Wexford Youths.

stovelid

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

As for catholicism, i fail to see what that has got to do with anything. Please elaborate. Anyway are Derry regarded as a catholic cub?? My 'manor'?No comment necessary.

I would consider Derry a Catholic club insofar as they can't be expected to be free of the sectarian categorization that still bedevils the North. I doubt that they draw much support from the protestant community and also consider their name, their location and even their very presence in our league (and the (shameful) events that led to them leaving the IL).

This is all just casual observation, and obviously I'm not bothered in the slightest about the religious aspect of clubs. And it's not in the slightest is it a claim that the club are institutionally Catholic or Catholic for Catholics or any of that crap.

It was just an offhand comment to bear out my observation about a lot of Celtic fans in Ireland - North and South. Any ones that I know (and I count good friends and fellow Rovers supporters amongst them) would definitely have particular (basically the same) views about politics and nationality. The fact that you appear to perceive the comment (via my joke comment about the UK) as some kind of pro-UK sectarian thing and your snide comment about "my manor" confirms very much the same thing.

The original point was that if people are fishing for a random club outside their own locale that is Irish, draws support traditionally from Catholic areas and have suffered from sectarianism in the past, why not opt for an Irish club that fits the bill even they're not one of the wealthiest and biggest clubs in the world...oh wait.

Fr Tod Umptious

NufcNavan wrote: »

I can think of a few off the top of my head. Here it goes:

Bohemians
Shamrock Rovers
Drogheda United
UCD
Bray Wanderers
Sligo Rovers
St. Pats Athletic
Galway United
Dundalk FC
Derry City
Shelbourne
Limerick
Mervue
Athlone Town
Finn Harps
Salthill Devon
Limerick FC
Longford Town
Cork City
Monaghan United
Waterford United
Wexford Youths.

Very origional, about the fourth time that has been posted

Jelle1880

seafood dunleavy wrote: »

Yet totally disregard their Irish roots.

How exactly ?
Because their fans don't sing Rebel songs and fly IRA banners ?

Hibs are the perfect example of a club started for Irish immigrants which has integrated perfectly into Scottish society.

The_Kew_Tour

Jelle1880 wrote: »

How exactly ?
Because their fans don't sing Rebel songs and fly IRA banners ?

Hibs are the perfect example of a club started for Irish immigrants which has integrated perfectly into Scottish society.

He may have forgot they still wear green and white, have harp on their crest and called "Ireland" in latin;)

ColeTrain

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

At that stage in his career McGuigan was not boxing under the tri-colour

I think people may read too much into this flags flying at grounds.

I was in Celtic Park in autumn 1996 and there were a number of flags flying on the roof of the stand, all lower than the union flag.

These flags included the Danish and Dutch flags as well as the Irish.

Someone said that that was because people from those countries were on the team and/or on the staff, coaches etc.

Pakie Bonner was on the staff at the time.

What are you trying to say here? That the reason the Tri Colour was flying because there were Irish staff at the club?

NufcNavan

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Very origional, about the fourth time that has been posted

Ah, apologies.

Coillte_Bhoy

stovelid wrote: »

It was just an offhand comment to bear out my observation about a lot of Celtic fans in Ireland - North and South. Any ones that I know (and I count good friends and fellow Rovers supporters amongst them) would definitely have particular (basically the same) views about politics and nationality. The fact that you appear to perceive the comment (via my joke comment about the UK) as some kind of pro-UK sectarian thing and your snide comment about "my manor" confirms very much the same thing.

You can deduce so much about me from one snide comment?? Wow, im impressed. Where do you hear that term 'my manor' in Ireland btw?

stovelid wrote: »

The original point was that if people are fishing for a random club outside their own locale that is Irish, draws support traditionally from Catholic areas and have suffered from sectarianism in the past, why not opt for an Irish club that fits the bill even they're not one of the wealthiest and biggest clubs in the world...oh wait.

So thats why im a Celtic fan is it?? You havent a ****ing clue about me.:rolleyes:

Coillte_Bhoy

Jelle1880 wrote: »

How exactly ?
Because their fans don't sing Rebel songs and fly IRA banners ?

Sorry? Who flies IRA banners?? Oh wait i bet i cant guess which photo you're going to post in reply...

TerryTibbs!

Give these muppets there own forum to talk ****e please

Fr Tod Umptious

ColeTrain wrote: »

What are you trying to say here? That the reason the Tri Colour was flying because there were Irish staff at the club?

My point is that the flying of a national flag at a club may not necessarly imply any historic connection between the flag's country and the club.

In my example you had a Dutch and Danish flag flying at Celtic, not cos there was any historical connection between Celtic and Denmark or Holland, but beacuse there were players from those countries on the team.

The same may have been the case at QPR where the poster says a tri-colour flew in the 70s/80s, the same time when Rep. Of Ireland international Don Givens was a prolific member of the team.

Does the Irish tri-colour always fly at Celtic park, regardless of any Rep. Of Ireland presence in the team or coaching staff ?

KeithAFC

I think Shamrock Rovers or Derry city.

ColeTrain

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

My point is that the flying of a national flag at a club may not necessarly imply any historic connection between the flag's country and the club.

In my example you had a Dutch and Danish flag flying at Celtic, not cos there was any historical connection between Celtic and Denmark or Holland, but beacuse there were players from those countries on the team.

The same may have been the case at QPR where the poster says a tri-colour flew in the 70s/80s, the same time when Rep. Of Ireland international Don Givens was a prolific member of the team.

Does the Irish tri-colour always fly at Celtic park, regardless of any Rep. Of Ireland presence in the team or coaching staff ?

Always has flown over Celtic Park. Nothing to do with staff.

citytillidie

stovelid wrote: »

I would consider Derry a Catholic club insofar as they can't be expected to be free of the sectarian categorization that still bedevils the North. I doubt that they draw much support from the protestant community and also consider their name, their location and even their very presence in our league (and the (shameful) events that led to them leaving the IL).

This is all just casual observation, and obviously I'm not bothered in the slightest about the religious aspect of clubs. And it's not in the slightest is it a claim that the club are institutionally Catholic or Catholic for Catholics or any of that crap.

It was just an offhand comment to bear out my observation about a lot of Celtic fans in Ireland - North and South. Any ones that I know (and I count good friends and fellow Rovers supporters amongst them) would definitely have particular (basically the same) views about politics and nationality. The fact that you appear to perceive the comment (via my joke comment about the UK) as some kind of pro-UK sectarian thing and your snide comment about "my manor" confirms very much the same thing.

The original point was that if people are fishing for a random club outside their own locale that is Irish, draws support traditionally from Catholic areas and have suffered from sectarianism in the past, why not opt for an Irish club that fits the bill even they're not one of the wealthiest and biggest clubs in the world...oh wait.

Ahhh you see thats where your wrong. Derry is not a Catholic team.

We have fans from both sides of the community and have a club policy of no symbols from either side and all flags to be red and white ie the club colours.

Dont expect you to understand since most of your posts about Derry are snide comments

losthorizon

stovelid wrote: »

I would consider Derry a Catholic club insofar as they can't be expected to be free of the sectarian categorization that still bedevils the North. I doubt that they draw much support from the protestant community and also consider their name, their location and even their very presence in our league (and the (shameful) events that led to them leaving the IL).

This is all just casual observation, and obviously I'm not bothered in the slightest about the religious aspect of clubs. And it's not in the slightest is it a claim that the club are institutionally Catholic or Catholic for Catholics or any of that crap.

I remember being at the FAI Cup Final versus Derry City in the mid to late 80s. The other team being Cork City but a few of Derry fans were waving Union Jacks so I doubt that Derry draws its support primarily from one community. Anyway what LOI club would be mad enough to just concentrate on one section of a community. They would need all the money they can get. As a cork city fan I was surprised to see non-nationalist supporters of the candystripes.


Its a pity that thisthread has got dragged away from the main topic of conversation as it was very interesting but some posters just think the football world revolves around two leagues.

MRPRO03

To say that a club not from Ireland can have Irish origins can be a complicated issue. To me, the only clubs with Irish origins are clubs that are actually from the island of Ireland. If we were to analyse it on the basis that clubs were set up by Irish priests, groups or emigrants, and say that they have Irish links cause of the people that set them up, does not stand up for me. If you are Irish and setup a local shop in London, does that make a shop with Irish links ?. If any club is setup, they are from that country and that local area, simple as that.

losthorizon

MRPRO03 wrote: »

To say that a club not from Ireland can have Irish origins can be a complicated issue. To me, the only clubs with Irish origins are clubs that are actually from the island of Ireland. If we were to analyse it on the basis that clubs were set up by Irish priests, groups or emigrants, and say that they have Irish links cause of the people that set them up, does not stand up for me. If you are Irish and setup a local shop in London, does that make a shop with Irish links ?. If any club is setup, they are from that country and that local area, simple as that.

I take your point and I agree that club isnt Irish only Irish clubs are. Some Clubs when they were formed did have irish connections or links but as in life a club in another country develops its own identity and you couldnt consider it Irish. If you did its actually rather sad for that club showing a retarded level of growth. For instance Audax Italiano are a big club in Chile with Italian origins (thats obvious) but they are not an italian team they are chilean through and through.

born2bwild

I think I made this point earlier but the OP's question reveals an unpleasant, and more or less permanent feature of Irish life (except the period of 15 years up until 2008), namely, emigration.

Not only are there football teams with Irish connections throughout the world but there are people in all walks of life, everywhere with Irish connections. So what? Well, so what that tells me, what this whole question raises for me is that we need to try harder to build a stronger league here.

As I said earlier, I'd rather have a thriving LOI than a scattered diaspora of lost talent.

One fact is universally accepted here: forced emigration is bad. We should do what we can to keep people here.

In football that means supporting the league: going to matches and spending your money. If you love football, if you love this country then you should support football in this country. (There's nothing stopping you following English, Spanish, whatever too; it can't be an either/or choice - it has to be both LOI and others)

Fr Tod Umptious

losthorizon wrote: »

I take your point and I agree that club isnt Irish only Irish clubs are. Some Clubs when they were formed did have irish connections or links but as in life a club in another country develops its own identity and you couldnt consider it Irish. If you did its actually rather sad for that club showing a retarded level of growth. For instance Audax Italiano are a big club in Chile with Italian origins (thats obvious) but they are not an italian team they are chilean through and through.

Exactly

But that does not stop some people thinking that Celtic are an Irish club and that supporting Cetlic is akin to supporting an Irish club.

And even worse some believe that supporting Cetlic, and thus having Rangers as ones biggest rivals, is somehow linked with supporting Rep of Ireland, see the old ok2boo crap from a few years back for instance.

Last time I checked the union flag flew highest at Celtic Park.

Hard Worker

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Last time I checked the union flag flew highest at Celtic Park.

It's a long time since you checked.
In fact, going on correct flag protocol, the Irish tricolour is the flag that has the leading position on the roof at Celtic Park. Whether that's by choice or whether the correct protocol is not used, I don't know.
Apart from Rangers, I don't know of any other Scottish clubs that fly the union flag.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

Hard Worker wrote: »

It's a long time since you checked.
In fact, going on correct flag protocol, the Irish tricolour is the flag that has the leading position on the roof at Celtic Park. Whether that's by choice or whether the correct protocol is not used, I don't know.
Apart from Rangers, I don't know of any other Scottish clubs that fly the union flag.

Celtic do fly the Union Flag as do all the other clubs in Scotland
The only reason the tricolour is flown at Celtic park is that when the SFA tried to make Celtic take it down Rangers were the only club to stand with Celtic and fight the ruling they won and the tricolour fly's over Parkhead

Oh and its illegal to fly any flag higher than the Union Flag in the UK

lubo_moravcik

grenache wrote: »

Going off track a little here, but for years my QPR supporting friend swears that Rangers were the first and only English club to fly the Irish tricolour over their stadium in the 70s/80s. Yet i've trawled the net for proof of this and can find nothing. I know Guinness sponsored them in the early-mid 80s, but this would hardly translate into them flying the 'green white and gold'??!

QPR would have the Irish connection, mainly due to the area of London they are based in and that many Irish would have lived there in the 70's and 80's.

ColeTrain

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Exactly

But that does not stop some people thinking that Celtic are an Irish club and that supporting Cetlic is akin to supporting an Irish club.

And even worse some believe that supporting Cetlic, and thus having Rangers as ones biggest rivals, is somehow linked with supporting Rep of Ireland, see the old ok2boo crap from a few years back for instance.

Last time I checked the union flag flew highest at Celtic Park.

We get it you have an agenda against Celtic and it's Irish supporters.

If Irish people want to support Celtic and celebrate it's Irish roots, who are you to say otherwise.

Regards to the booing, such a trivial matter to bring up. Irish players have been booed at Ibrox, Ranger's players in Dublin. People have a right to boo opposition players, it goes on all the time in football. But because it's Celtic and Rangers you have to give the dig.

Last time you checked? When was that?

tallaghtmick

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

My point is that the flying of a national flag at a club may not necessarly imply any historic connection between the flag's country and the club.

In my example you had a Dutch and Danish flag flying at Celtic, not cos there was any historical connection between Celtic and Denmark or Holland, but beacuse there were players from those countries on the team.

The same may have been the case at QPR where the poster says a tri-colour flew in the 70s/80s, the same time when Rep. Of Ireland international Don Givens was a prolific member of the team.

Does the Irish tri-colour always fly at Celtic park, regardless of any Rep. Of Ireland presence in the team or coaching staff ?

so why do thousands of fans wave irish flags?hardly because the fave players are irish.

Fr Tod Umptious

tallaghtmick wrote: »

so why do thousands of fans wave irish flags?hardly because the fave players are irish.

Thanks for making my point.

i.e there is a difference between the (Official) Club and the fans.
The club is British, some fans consider it Irish, and like to emphasis the attachment with it's roots.

Nothing wrong with people having Irish flags at Celtic or any other flag at any other team, but officially those clubs are from the country they exist in, as a previous poster stated.

ColeTrain

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Thanks for making my point.

i.e there is a difference between the (Official) Club and the fans.
The club is British, some fans consider it Irish, and like to emphasis the attachment with it's roots.

Nothing wrong with people having Irish flags at Celtic or any other flag at any other team, but officially those clubs are from the country they exist in, as a previous poster stated.

Thanks for clearing that up. I had always thought Scotland was in Ireland, not Britain.

tallaghtmick

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Thanks for making my point.

i.e there is a difference between the (Official) Club and the fans.
The club is British, some fans consider it Irish, and like to emphasis the attachment with it's roots.

Nothing wrong with people having Irish flags at Celtic or any other flag at any other team, but officially those clubs are from the country they exist in, as a previous poster stated.

fans make every club and celtic are also irish owned(dermot desmond 37%)so wouldnt that make the club irish but scottish based

Fr Tod Umptious

tallaghtmick wrote: »

fans make every club and celtic are also irish owned(dermot desmond 37%)so wouldnt that make the club irish but scottish based

Well in that case Sunderland are an Irish club

Chelsea are a Russian club

Man City are a UAE/ Saudi club, I'm not sure which

Man Utd and Liverpool are as American as the Dallas Cowboys etc etc etc.

tallaghtmick

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well in that case Sunderland are an Irish club

Chelsea are a Russian club

Man City are a UAE/ Saudi club, I'm not sure which

Man Utd and Liverpool are as American as the Dallas Cowboys etc etc etc.

well thats true then apparently united are gonna be floated on the hong kong stock exchange so that would make them a american owned english based hong kong club

artanevilla

FC Bohemians Praha, not only was the football club named after the Irish side, but they named a half the Czech Republic after the Gypsies!

losthorizon

artanevilla wrote: »

FC Bohemians Praha, not only was the football club named after the Irish side, but they named a half the Czech Republic after the Gypsies!

Dont be a Moravian :P

OPENROAD

lubo_moravcik wrote: »

QPR would have the Irish connection, mainly due to the area of London they are based in and that many Irish would have lived there in the 70's and 80's.

Wouldn't really view that as a connection.

dan1895

artanevilla wrote: »

FC Bohemians Praha, not only was the football club named after the Irish side, but they named a half the Czech Republic after the Gypsies!

Nothing to do with that part of the world being known as Bohemia then?

Isn't there four or five Czech clubs who call themselves Bohemian/s?
One is enough if you ask me

Pro. F

MRPRO03 wrote: »

To say that a club not from Ireland can have Irish origins can be a complicated issue. To me, the only clubs with Irish origins are clubs that are actually from the island of Ireland. If we were to analyse it on the basis that clubs were set up by Irish priests, groups or emigrants, and say that they have Irish links cause of the people that set them up, does not stand up for me. If you are Irish and setup a local shop in London, does that make a shop with Irish links ?. If any club is setup, they are from that country and that local area, simple as that.

Yes, obviously. It is nonsense to try and say otherwise. And on into the future it will equally be the case that the shop will have Irish origins.

The thread title asks about clubs with Irish origins, so those set up by or for Irish people would fit the bill. It is not complicated, it is simple. You are trying to derail the discussion to drive your own agenda.
The thread poses a perfectly valid historical question, there's no need for the LOI Thought Police to make an issue of it. It is tedious.

On topic: I think there are probably very few clubs around the world with Irish origins. From any reading of football history that I have done, the sport seems to have been mostly spread by the English themselves, which is hardly surprising. There also seems to have often been a strong Anglophile aspect to the spread of the sport in the early years.

MRPRO03

It's not LOI agenda, its an Irish issue. Its like people are more accepting of a foreign team being of Irish roots than the actual Irish clubs in the country. Its a debate I know I can not win, whatever I say even if it has strong foundations, it will simply be ignored.

Pro. F

MRPRO03 wrote: »

It's not LOI agenda, its an Irish issue. Its like people are more accepting of a foreign team being of Irish roots than the actual Irish clubs in the country.

No it is not. You are making shìt up. Who on this thread has shown themselves unable to accept that the Irish clubs in this country have Irish origins? Can you point to any posts that express that view?

MRPRO03 wrote: »

Its a debate I know I can not win, whatever I say even if it has strong foundations, it will simply be ignored.

What you are saying is that foreign clubs with Irish origins do not have Irish origins. It does not have strong foundations. It is nonsense.

born2bwild

Pro. F wrote: »

Yes, obviously. It is nonsense to try and say otherwise. And on into the future it will equally be the case that the shop will have Irish origins.

The thread title asks about clubs with Irish origins, so those set up by or for Irish people would fit the bill. It is not complicated, it is simple. You are trying to derail the discussion to drive your own agenda.
The thread poses a perfectly valid historical question, there's no need for the LOI Thought Police to make an issue of it. It is tedious.

On topic: I think there are probably very few clubs around the world with Irish origins. From any reading of football history that I have done, the sport seems to have been mostly spread by the English themselves, which is hardly surprising. There also seems to have often been a strong Anglophile aspect to the spread of the sport in the early years.

You're right; there was always an Anglophile aspect to the spread of the game around the world. But with everything the Brits did, scratch just below the surface and you will find that there is Irish Involvement. Think about the 2 world wars.

I mentioned Jimmy Hogan, the son of Irish Immigrants to Burnley, who went on to become perhaps the most influential figure in world football in the first half of the 20th century.

His parents had to emigrate/Ireland lost him. The OP's question asks about teams with Irish roots. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the question. I would argue that we should not be asking 'Which teams have Irish roots?'; rather we should be asking "Which teams remind us of players and coaches who we lost to emigration?"

It's really the same question, only better because it recognises the historical facts without having to resort to questions of who is Irish and who isn't.

In mentioning the thought police of the LOI you seem to have let a certain group of people colour your view of the league. Don't let them! Just remember, the more you support the league the better it'll get, the better it gets, the more it'll get supported.

Most importantly it'll improve conditions so that we don't lose so many players, coaches and so on to emigration.

Pro. F

born2bwild wrote: »

You're right; there was always an Anglophile aspect to the spread of the game around the world. But with everything the Brits did, scratch just below the surface and you will find that there is Irish Involvement.

Maybe. I remain to be convinced. If I see much evidence then I will acknowledge it. For now, from what I have seen, the number of foreign clubs with Irish origins is tiny.

born2bwild wrote: »

The OP's question asks about teams with Irish roots. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the question. I would argue that we should not be asking 'Which teams have Irish roots?'; rather we should be asking "Which teams remind us of players and coaches who we lost to emigration?"

It's really the same question, only better because it recognises the historical facts without having to resort to questions of who is Irish and who isn't.

Emigration truly has been a blight on the country, but there is no need to change the question asked by the OP imo. It is a simple question. In looking at Irish influences on football abroad we can acknowledge the factor that emigration played, but I don't see any reason to re-frame the entire question just to do that.

born2bwild wrote: »

In mentioning the thought police of the LOI you seem to have let a certain group of people colour your view of the league. Don't let them! Just remember, the more you support the league the better it'll get, the better it gets, the more it'll get supported.

Most importantly it'll improve conditions so that we don't lose so many players, coaches and so on to emigration.

I do try to not let the the idiot variant of LOI fans colour my view of the league. So yep, warning heeded. But I disagree with your idea that the more I support the league the better it will get. I have discussed previously how I don't believe that charity is the answer to the LOI's problems, but I do not want to derail this thread further so I'm not going to discuss the issue further again here.

Coillte_Bhoy

born2bwild wrote: »

His parents had to emigrate/Ireland lost him. The OP's question asks about teams with Irish roots. A lot of people seem to misunderstand the question. I would argue that we should not be asking 'Which teams have Irish roots?'; rather we should be asking "Which teams remind us of players and coaches who we lost to emigration?"

Im sorry but i did not misunderstand the question. While you're question is a avlid one it is completely different form the op's imo.

born2bwild

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Im sorry but i did not misunderstand the question. While you're question is a avlid one it is completely different form the op's imo.

Well, you obviously understand the question differently from me.

It's just that when I'm asked about "clubs around the world that have Irish origins?" I think about journeys taken by people from Ireland overseas to another country where they become players, officials, fans or some combination of these of a football club. In other words, we're talking about the impact of emigration from Ireland on football throughout the world.

That's how I understand the OP's question How do you understand it?

premierstone

born2bwild wrote: »

Well, you obviously understand the question differently from me.

It's just that when I'm asked about "clubs around the world that have Irish origins?" I think about journeys taken by people from Ireland overseas to another country where they become players, officials, fans or some combination of these of a football club. In other words, we're talking about the impact of emigration from Ireland on football throughout the world.

That's how I understand the OP's question How do you understand it?

You are misunderstanding the term ''origin'' as in from the start, the establishemnt of the club, not how they embraced or became part of or helped develop the clubs.

born2bwild

premierstone wrote: »

You are misunderstanding the term ''origin'' as in from the start, the establishemnt of the club, not how they embraced or became part of or helped develop the clubs.

Origin is where something comes from. A club comes from people. People come from places. How am I misunderstanding the term origin?