puppy farm sticky??

pokertalk

anyone else think its a good idea to have a puppy farm sticky with all the tell tale signs to look out for. that way people who might not want to post a thread here can just read the sticky;)
if we stopped one person from making the mistake then it would be worth it

Chris_Heilong

yes in bold text, It needs lots of shocking pictures and news articles, this is not something you can just skim trough, it needs to make an impact.

Hellrazer

If someone wants to type it up--Ill sticky it.

No mentioning names though.

Pictures/articles are ok as long as no names are mentioned.

pokertalk

not to pc savey i get by thats about it:p.and my spellllllllling sucks:D
any takers out there

Shanao

I'll do it if you want. Is it alright if we get a few people to post up info here, then combine everything into one post for the sticky thread to make it easier to read? Just in case I leave anything out? I'll see what I can find in photos

Whispered

Would it be possible to use the FAQ thread that's already there?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056235625

It will be edited into sections anyway so we can have a puppy farm section. Or do you think it warrants a thread of it's own separate to the usual advice given when getting a dog.

VW 1

Fair play to the guys putting in the time to type the sticky up, hopefully it will save at least a couple of dogs. The less of this going on the better, eradicating customers of puppy farms will eradicate the puppy farms eventually.

pokertalk

i think if we put it in the f a q section then it might be missed as alot of people seem to not read it but if it was up as a sticky there in their face then would be much better

pokertalk

Shanao wrote: »

I'll do it if you want. Is it alright if we get a few people to post up info here, then combine everything into one post for the sticky thread to make it easier to read? Just in case I leave anything out? I'll see what I can find in photos

yeah nice one. i was lookin at some pics to use but could not find any real shocking ones.

Shanao

Already started writing it up on. I've found a few pics but some are pretty distressing so i wont put them up here. If i were to put those in the thread, i assume link only and warning beside them?




This last one died not long after he was rescued, poor little mite:(

pokertalk

maybe put them up anyway if the mods agree not as a link. just with a warning as you click into the sticky. shock and aw will make people think twice

piperh

Shanao wrote: »

Already started writing it up on. I've found a few pics but some are pretty distressing so i wont put them up here. If i were to put those in the thread, i assume link only and warning beside them?




This last one died not long after he was rescued, poor little mite:(

OMFG!!!!!! :mad::mad: the poor little things. We need to do as much as we can to get this info out there to stop people using the farms

slashygoodness

I am new to boards and must admit that when I was doing my research boards rarely showed up - it was my OH who finally brought me over . I would be happy to set up a fackbook page with any of the info you want to share..and direct people here as well

pokertalk

slashygoodness wrote: »

I am new to boards and must admit that when I was doing my research boards rarely showed up - it was my OH who finally brought me over . I would be happy to set up a fackbook page with any of the info you want to share..and direct people here as well

that would be great ta

Hellrazer

slashygoodness wrote: »

I would be happy to set up a fackbook page with any of the info you want to share..and direct people here as well

I wouldnt be happy cross posting on FB to be honest.In the past FB was used by banned users to stir things up here.Dont want to go down that road again.

lrushe

slashygoodness wrote: »

I would be happy to set up a fackbook page with any of the info you want to share..and direct people here as well

There's already one Facebook page that I'm aware of:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=137106817836&ref=nf#!/group.php?gid=137106817836&v=wall

slashygoodness

lrushe wrote: »

There's already one Facebook page that I'm aware of:

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=137106817836&ref=nf#!/group.php?gid=137106817836&v=wall

Yeah there a quite a few, some great Amercian ones too with lots of info. Was going to set one up to direct people to boards - provide a sample of the types of data & advice they can get. But as Hellrazer has asked me not to, I won't....

pokertalk

Shanao wrote: »

I'll do it if you want. Is it alright if we get a few people to post up info here, then combine everything into one post for the sticky thread to make it easier to read? Just in case I leave anything out? I'll see what I can find in photos

ARE YOU GONNA TYPE IT UP

Shanao

This is what I have so far. Any thoughts on what I might have forgotten? I haven't added any of the photos yet so will add them when the thread goes up.

Puppy Farms

Puppy farms, puppy mills, commercial breeders, they’re all the same thing. A place where dogs are farmed intensively with nothing but profit in mind. This thread is here to warn anyone looking for a dog about puppy farms, what they entail, what to look for if you think you might be in a puppy farm, and how to avoid handing over the money that funds this cruel practice.

What is a puppy farm?

A puppy farm is a facility where dogs are bred intensively for the profit of the ‘farmer’. A puppy farmer can have up to almost a thousand breeding bitches on their premises, constantly churning out puppies and either selling them here at home, or exporting them to the UK or even further abroad.

A puppy farm bitch is bred from when they first come into heat (usually around six to eight months old when they are still a puppy and about ten years old in human terms). From that first heat, they come into season every two to three months for their rest of their lives, and are bred in every single heat, never once getting a break.
Anyone who has had kids knows well how taxing giving birth is, but imagine having not just one baby, but from one to twelve plus, twice a year? A bitch on a puppy farm also has no access to veterinary care (as this would cost the ‘farmer’ his precious money), meaning her health deteriorates fast leaving her underweight, weak and prone to disease and infection.
When the bitch eventually cannot produce anymore puppies, she is either culled, dumped, or sold off to another puppy farm cheaply to try and get one last litter out of her. Unfortunately, there is no way of telling just how many of these poor dogs aren’t found.

Because puppy farms breed for profit over animal welfare, many of these so-called ‘pedigrees’ are of low quality and prone to genetic diseases prevalent in their breed. The Cavalier King Charles for example, is a breed that can cost an owner thousands and upwards of euros if not bred properly. They are prone to several different diseases and disorders and none of the parent dogs are health-tested so every single puppy produced is capable of developing these problems.

Dogs on puppy farms are kept in tiny, cramped cubicles or crates for their entire lives, never seeing the sun shine, never feeling the rain in their fur, never smelling the sweet scent of new grass, never hiking through snow, and never getting to walk, run, swim, play or roll about enjoying themselves as normal pet dogs do. Most don’t even see daylight once throughout their entire lives. Their pens are rarely kept clean and dogs find themselves walking around in their own urine and faeces, the urine not only staining their fur, but also burning their sensitive paw pads.
Puppy farm dogs do not receive treats, toys, exercise or basic grooming. To minimize waste cleanup, dogs are often kept in cages with wire flooring that injures their paws and legs. It is not unusual for cages to be stacked up in columns.
From tiny Chihuahuas, to the gigantic Great Dane, all of the different breeds are kept in the same small enclosures. All dogs are active and need daily exercise, which none of them get in these places.

Along with the health issues many of these dogs suffer, they also suffer many mental issues. Many dogs lose their voices after barking for so long, only to get no answer. Most become pacers, constantly pacing back and forth in their pens in boredom and frustration.

Most of the puppies born in puppy farms have never been handled by a human being before being sold, and have never met other dogs, heard the everyday noises normal dogs would get to hear, and turn into nervous wrecks with many behavioural issues. Despite being sold as vaccinated, IKC registered, well-socialised etc, few of them ever are. The new owners soon find themselves with an unvaccinated, unregistered, unsocialised dog who has cost them thousands within the first year of their puppy’s life. Some puppies even die within the few weeks they are brought home. It is a heartbreaking situation for many new owners who find themselves having to explain to their children just why their new family member is no longer with them.

Not all puppies are sold here in Ireland; many of them are shipped to the UK and abroad. Packed into vans in tiny crates, almost half of the puppies do not survive the trip as they are given no fresh air, no food, no water, and no veterinary treatment before or during the journey.


How to Avoid Puppy Farms:

If you are thinking of getting a puppy, then avoid websites selling dogs, and avoid looking in the buy and sell newspapers. A reputable, responsible breeder will not advertise their dogs in this manner. Contact the Irish Kennel Club, or IKC for short, and see if your chosen breed has an Irish Breed Club. If so, contact the Breed Club and they will point you in the right direction of an ethical breeder.

If you do find yourself in contact with a breeder, then always insist on inspecting the breeder’s premises. A reputable breeder will be more than happy to have you come to view where the puppy is coming from, a breeder who offers to meet you halfway, or deliver the puppy to you is instantly not one to be trusted. When you do go to see the Breeder’s premises, ensure that you see the mother, and puppies, and that they are in the house.
Some breeders may have the dogs outside, which might not seem so bad, but this means they may not have been properly socialised. An ethical breeder will keep their puppies indoors to ensure the puppies are used to all sounds found in the home: the television, vacuum cleaner, phone, and are used to people coming and going.

The mother dog should be well-brushed and in good condition, with bright eyes and she should be introduced to prospective new owners as well. She should not be underweight, despite a ‘breeder’ telling you the puppies will take it out of her; a good breeder will make sure the bitch has a constant supply of high-quality food to keep her healthy.

The puppies should be curious and excited to see new people, they should be plump, but not potbellied, they should be bright-eyed and their coats in good condition. There should be no dirt matting their fur. Roll the puppies over and check their stomach for any marks, redness or loss of hair. Part the fur to make sure there are no small black pieces of dirt (a sign of fleas) and check for lice and redness on their skin.
The puppies should not cower away from you, should not stay huddled together. The puppies should be confident enough to investigate the stranger in their midst. If they aren’t, then its quite likely they haven’t been socialised.

A responsible breeder will be unlikely to own the puppies’ father, so make sure to ask if you can view him as well. Be wary if the breeder has both mother and father; it is highly unlikely that a breeder will have both a bitch and dog who compliment each other.
Things to ask the breeder for:

• IKC papers for your puppy
• Vaccination Card for your puppy
• Veterinary Cert from the vet clearing the puppy of all health problems.
• Health test results for the parent dogs.
• A contract that allows you to return the puppy for a full refund if your vet finds any problems within forty-eight hours of purchasing the puppy.

If the breeder cannot or is unwilling to give you any of these, walk away. A reputable breeder will have all of these, a puppy farmer/backyard breeder will not.

If you find yourself in the position where you are on a puppy farm and find a sickly, weak puppy before you, DO NOT BUT THIS PUP. Although it may occur to you that you are rescuing/saving this puppy, you are not. All you are doing is funding this cruel practice by handing over your well-earned money. If you buy this one puppy, then you are giving these people more incentive to continue over breeding their poor dogs. The only way to try and stamp out puppy farms is to not give them the business they need to continue.
This is the only family member that you can choose, so make sure you do your very best to find the perfect, healthy puppy to bring into your home. A puppy farmer will not care what you want the puppy for, they will not care what breed you want, they will care only for the money that you hand over to them.

Shanao

Anyone any suggestions on anything else I should put in there?

pokertalk

Shanao wrote: »

This is what I have so far. Any thoughts on what I might have forgotten? I haven't added any of the photos yet so will add them when the thread goes up.

Puppy Farms

Puppy farms, puppy mills, commercial breeders, they’re all the same thing. A place where dogs are farmed intensively with nothing but profit in mind. This thread is here to warn anyone looking for a dog about puppy farms, what they entail, what to look for if you think you might be in a puppy farm, and how to avoid handing over the money that funds this cruel practice.

What is a puppy farm?

A puppy farm is a facility where dogs are bred intensively for the profit of the ‘farmer’. A puppy farmer can have up to almost a thousand breeding bitches on their premises, constantly churning out puppies and either selling them here at home, or exporting them to the UK or even further abroad.

A puppy farm bitch is bred from when they first come into heat (usually around six to eight months old when they are still a puppy and about ten years old in human terms). From that first heat, they come into season every two to three months for their rest of their lives, and are bred in every single heat, never once getting a break.
Anyone who has had kids knows well how taxing giving birth is, but imagine having not just one baby, but from one to twelve plus, twice a year? A bitch on a puppy farm also has no access to veterinary care (as this would cost the ‘farmer’ his precious money), meaning her health deteriorates fast leaving her underweight, weak and prone to disease and infection.
When the bitch eventually cannot produce anymore puppies, she is either culled, dumped, or sold off to another puppy farm cheaply to try and get one last litter out of her. Unfortunately, there is no way of telling just how many of these poor dogs aren’t found.

Because puppy farms breed for profit over animal welfare, many of these so-called ‘pedigrees’ are of low quality and prone to genetic diseases prevalent in their breed. The Cavalier King Charles for example, is a breed that can cost an owner thousands and upwards of euros if not bred properly. They are prone to several different diseases and disorders and none of the parent dogs are health-tested so every single puppy produced is capable of developing these problems.

Dogs on puppy farms are kept in tiny, cramped cubicles or crates for their entire lives, never seeing the sun shine, never feeling the rain in their fur, never smelling the sweet scent of new grass, never hiking through snow, and never getting to walk, run, swim, play or roll about enjoying themselves as normal pet dogs do. Most don’t even see daylight once throughout their entire lives. Their pens are rarely kept clean and dogs find themselves walking around in their own urine and faeces, the urine not only staining their fur, but also burning their sensitive paw pads.
Puppy farm dogs do not receive treats, toys, exercise or basic grooming. To minimize waste cleanup, dogs are often kept in cages with wire flooring that injures their paws and legs. It is not unusual for cages to be stacked up in columns.
From tiny Chihuahuas, to the gigantic Great Dane, all of the different breeds are kept in the same small enclosures. All dogs are active and need daily exercise, which none of them get in these places.

Along with the health issues many of these dogs suffer, they also suffer many mental issues. Many dogs lose their voices after barking for so long, only to get no answer. Most become pacers, constantly pacing back and forth in their pens in boredom and frustration.

Most of the puppies born in puppy farms have never been handled by a human being before being sold, and have never met other dogs, heard the everyday noises normal dogs would get to hear, and turn into nervous wrecks with many behavioural issues. Despite being sold as vaccinated, IKC registered, well-socialised etc, few of them ever are. The new owners soon find themselves with an unvaccinated, unregistered, unsocialised dog who has cost them thousands within the first year of their puppy’s life. Some puppies even die within the few weeks they are brought home. It is a heartbreaking situation for many new owners who find themselves having to explain to their children just why their new family member is no longer with them.

Not all puppies are sold here in Ireland; many of them are shipped to the UK and abroad. Packed into vans in tiny crates, almost half of the puppies do not survive the trip as they are given no fresh air, no food, no water, and no veterinary treatment before or during the journey.


How to Avoid Puppy Farms:

If you are thinking of getting a puppy, then avoid websites selling dogs, and avoid looking in the buy and sell newspapers. A reputable, responsible breeder will not advertise their dogs in this manner. Contact the Irish Kennel Club, or IKC for short, and see if your chosen breed has an Irish Breed Club. If so, contact the Breed Club and they will point you in the right direction of an ethical breeder.

If you do find yourself in contact with a breeder, then always insist on inspecting the breeder’s premises. A reputable breeder will be more than happy to have you come to view where the puppy is coming from, a breeder who offers to meet you halfway, or deliver the puppy to you is instantly not one to be trusted. When you do go to see the Breeder’s premises, ensure that you see the mother, and puppies, and that they are in the house.
Some breeders may have the dogs outside, which might not seem so bad, but this means they may not have been properly socialised. An ethical breeder will keep their puppies indoors to ensure the puppies are used to all sounds found in the home: the television, vacuum cleaner, phone, and are used to people coming and going.

The mother dog should be well-brushed and in good condition, with bright eyes and she should be introduced to prospective new owners as well. She should not be underweight, despite a ‘breeder’ telling you the puppies will take it out of her; a good breeder will make sure the bitch has a constant supply of high-quality food to keep her healthy.

The puppies should be curious and excited to see new people, they should be plump, but not potbellied, they should be bright-eyed and their coats in good condition. There should be no dirt matting their fur. Roll the puppies over and check their stomach for any marks, redness or loss of hair. Part the fur to make sure there are no small black pieces of dirt (a sign of fleas) and check for lice and redness on their skin.
The puppies should not cower away from you, should not stay huddled together. The puppies should be confident enough to investigate the stranger in their midst. If they aren’t, then its quite likely they haven’t been socialised.

A responsible breeder will be unlikely to own the puppies’ father, so make sure to ask if you can view him as well. Be wary if the breeder has both mother and father; it is highly unlikely that a breeder will have both a bitch and dog who compliment each other.
Things to ask the breeder for:

• IKC papers for your puppy
• Vaccination Card for your puppy
• Veterinary Cert from the vet clearing the puppy of all health problems.
• Health test results for the parent dogs.
• A contract that allows you to return the puppy for a full refund if your vet finds any problems within forty-eight hours of purchasing the puppy.

If the breeder cannot or is unwilling to give you any of these, walk away. A reputable breeder will have all of these, a puppy farmer/backyard breeder will not.

If you find yourself in the position where you are on a puppy farm and find a sickly, weak puppy before you, DO NOT BUT THIS PUP. Although it may occur to you that you are rescuing/saving this puppy, you are not. All you are doing is funding this cruel practice by handing over your well-earned money. If you buy this one puppy, then you are giving these people more incentive to continue over breeding their poor dogs. The only way to try and stamp out puppy farms is to not give them the business they need to continue.
This is the only family member that you can choose, so make sure you do your very best to find the perfect, healthy puppy to bring into your home. A puppy farmer will not care what you want the puppy for, they will not care what breed you want, they will care only for the money that you hand over to them.

yeah thats perfect from what i can see.fair play to ya

Cherry Blossom

I'm going to be completely honest here . Fair dues to you Shanao for taking it on yourself to do this but in reality what you have put in your post is so far removed from what people are actually likely to encounter that it's no wonder people don't recognise a puppy farm if its staring them in the face, so for the sake of balance I'm going to share a story of what I came across when I was looking for my dog last year.

I rang the IKC and told them I was looking for a West Highland puppy and asked if they would be able to put me in touch with a reputable breeder. I had been trying to contact them for around 2 weeks before I actually got through. They asked where in the country I was and gave me a phone no. for a lady who lived within 40mins of me who had contacted them to let them know she had a litter of pups. I rang the number (mobile no.) and got an 'old dear' on the other end of phone who gave me the most impressive and most well rehearsed marketing spiel I have ever heard in my life. I heard all about how they are such friendly, versatile little dogs that can be a little bit stubborn at times. How they make such great companions, and because they are so compact etc. you can take them with you places in the car if you wanted to do that. She asked me all the questions that she's supposed to ask me ("it's for the IKC you see, they have guidelines about questions we should ask people wanting puppies").

It all seemed perfectly above board until I started asking my questions, then she became unsure about the answers and "sometimes she forgets things you see". She couldn't think of any health conditions they were prone to and certainly there had never been anything wrong with any of her dogs. A very important question I had to ask was regarding suitability with kids, and this is were it started to get really bad. She explained she had her grand kids round and they didn't go near them or anything but the pups could hear them playing in the house from where they were in the garden shed :rolleyes: I asked if they were just there while the kids were round and the reply was 'oh no dear I couldn't have dogs in the house they're much too messy. Then it transpired that my assumption that the mother was an outdoor dog was also wrong because 'oh no I don't let her in the garden, she'd run off I'd never be able to catch her so she just stays in the shed you see'.

The plot thickened when I asked how old the pups were and 'well there are 2 litters at the minute, the older ones are 6 weeks and then there is another litter which is 2 weeks if you weren't quite decided yet you could wait for those'. She explained the method she used where you choose your pup out of the bundle and you get the pup chipped yourself and get the no. back to her to send the IKC papers because she would never be able to tell the difference in them and the bitch wouldn't stand for her putting ribbons on them or anything like that. She didn't know anything about money or that because 'the man' dealt with all that side of it himself, who the man was I'm not sure.

Needless to say I told her I'd be leaving these pups anyway and she said that was fine as there were people ringing from all over the country and she had folks travelling 4 hours to come and see them because it's very hard to get registered pups you see :rolleyes:. But just in case I changed my mind it was the Poodles I was ringing about wasn't it?

I've no idea if I stumbled on a small white fluffy factory operating from the garden shed of an elderly couple or (god forbid), it's more than the rescues that are enlisting the retired population of the country to help in their endevours :eek:. Either way, I have absolutely no doubt that had I gone to see those pups they would have been in absolutely spotless conditions when I turned up, it doesn't mean that the horrors behind the scenes didn't exist though .

Shanao

I suppose I should have put in a bit about Backyard breeders too, any extra info is welcome on the thread. I just put in the basics on puppy farms and what to look out for. I'll put in a list of questions to ask the breeders as well

Cherry Blossom

Shanao wrote: »

I suppose I should have put in a bit about Backyard breeders too, any extra info is welcome on the thread. I just put in the basics on puppy farms and what to look out for. I'll put in a list of questions to ask the breeders as well

I think you misunderstand, this was no backyard breeder. I'd bet my life that this was a puppy farm selling its wares via an elderly couple. Sure there are those out there that are completely ignorant to animal welfare but there are many more who are savvy enough to know that people are starting to cop on to them and putting the pups into domestic settings for sale. There were 3 different litters of 2 different breeds mentioned in that phone call. It's highly unlikely that any backyard breeder has 3 bitches all with puppies at the same time and they all live permanently in a garden shed, and if they do, they are no backyard breeder.

A puppy farm, puppy mill, commercial breeder, backyard breeder whatever you want to call them are all the same thing. By definition they are producing pups purely for the purpose of making money with no regard to the welfare of the dogs, there is no difference ethically whether they have 1 breeding bitch, 10,000 or anywhere in between. If they are clean while people are visiting its a profit driven marketing ploy not for the welfare of the dogs and by no means an indication that this is how they are kept the rest of the time.

pokertalk

yeah maybe put something in red saying that if you dont see dogs stacked in crates and looking emasiated it does not mean your not in a puppy farm;) but great job

pokertalk

ye also google the number of the breeder to see if they have other ads of different breeds of dogs

Shanao

Okay, I've changed a few things in the thread, does it seem alright now? Is there anything else I forgot to cover?

DBCyc

great idea and great post shanao

Any IT people out there - Is there a way to make the stickied thread appear in google if people search for "buying a puppy" or similar? I know that you can tag boards posts, would that work?

I have often queried something or other in google to find a boards thread pop up in one of the top three results. It would be great if an innocent wannabe dog owner happened upon the thread through a google search and were made aware of puppy farms. The general public are pretty oblivious to their existence.

Zapperzy

Fair play to you Shanao for taking the time to write all that out, hopefully now potential buyers read that and be more careful when buying a pup. One thing I noticed is you say bitches go into season every 2 to 3 months, maybe thats a typo but I think that should be roughly every 5 to 7 months.

I agree with adrenalinjunkie that buyers won't always see the telltale cages stacked floor to ceiling and thousands of bitches when they go to buy their pup. Sometimes it's only a handful of bitches in a shed in equally poor conditions. I wonder is that footage from the puppy farm still online that was shown on animal a & e a few months back, that I think was more realistic of what the average customer is quite likely to encounter, you could link to that if you can find it. This website I find is quite good also, http://www.puppylovecampaigns.org/ you could include a link to it if people want to read more. A link to this thread also as a 'how to go about properly getting a dog' http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056235625

Chris_Heilong

Spellings. Do not but this pup

Shanao

Christ didn't even notice I had written that about the heats. Thanks, what it was suppose to be was twice a year. Not sure how I messed that up? Thanks for spotting it.

I'll add some links as well at the end.