Irish Promotions Thread *Please read post 1* (*Mod Warning Post #3947)

the eternal struggler

brianblaze wrote: »

Unprotected chair shot to the head somewhere it seems. Which is a pretty stupid thing to do in fairness. Haven't seen it. Don't particularly want to.

There was a show up North yesterday, Titanic or Respect or something? Maybe from there?

ThePott

Wrespect Wrestling had a show yesterday.
Seemingly there was some unprotected chair shots involved.
They're fairly new on the scene AFAIK. Saw the show was a bit attitude era alright.

Totally against chair shots to the head assuming they were unprotected but the I wonder if this is OTT taking shots at another wrestling promotion in Belfast because they put shows on there too.

B.A._Baracus

Re: Chairshots to head. Should never do them. Protected or unprotected.

You want to be mad in this day and age to take an unprotected chairshot. Can't do them in WWE .. biggest wrestling promotion in the world (and rightfully so!) So you would be even madder to do it in front of 200 people etc.

As for protecting yourself on a chairshot? absolutely. But it doesnt have the same effect as being whacked out of it unprotected so ... why even do that?

Just don't do any.

showpony1

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

You want to be mad in this day and age to take an unprotected chairshot. Can't do them in WWE .. biggest wrestling promotion in the world (and rightfully so!) So you would be even madder to do it in front of 200 people etc.

Cody took one a few weeks ago on AEW, so can't say it doesn't happen in the big leagues.

B.A._Baracus

showpony1 wrote: »

Cody took one a few weeks ago on AEW, so can't say it doesn't happen in the big leagues.

Cody took that shot because he is trying to get AEW off the ground. He has a major stake in that promotion. Not just another worker. Still shouldn't have taken it.

That said, and as I said above, you'd never see that in WWE anymore.

Cherry_Cola

It's all about consent in my view. Workers should not be pressured into doing these spots but if they're happy to, no matter how misguided their judgement is, then leave them off. The risks are well publicised.

How many of those against it here smoke for example?

the eternal struggler

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Cody took that shot because he is trying to get AEW off the ground. He has a major stake in that promotion. Not just another worker. Still shouldn't have taken it.

That said, and as I said above, you'd never see that in WWE anymore.

Not to mention how well publicised it's been that they gimmicked the chair. He just got extremely unlucky and got nicked with the edge and busted open anyway.

From what I gather on twitter they were giving and taking unprotected chair shots on a random show in Northern Ireland in front of a handful of people.

jface187

Chair shots to the head should be done away with, but it's naive to think that it will solve the problem of head injuries. I watched a lot of Daniel Bryan while in the indies and can't really recall him taking chair shots to the head or in his WWE time. But the diving head buts, crazy suplex's and suicide dives were probably led to his head truma. I think some wrestling fans getting all high and mighty about chair shots should think about what else wrestlers are doing. Pretty sure OTT does piledrivers and such.

weareallmarks

eh... how many of you youtube ecw on a regular basis. They built that off chairs to the head. You all popped for balls caving in peoples skulls....
Hopefully we all know better now and that is good, but we do need to keep off our high horses on this one. Unless you are all 15, in that case I take everything above back

the eternal struggler

jface187 wrote: »

Chair shots to the head should be done away with, but it's naive to think that it will solve the problem of head injuries. I watched a lot of Daniel Bryan while in the indies and can't really recall him taking chair shots to the head or in his WWE time. But the diving head buts, crazy suplex's and suicide dives were probably led to his head truma. I think some wrestling fans getting all high and mighty about chair shots should think about what else wrestlers are doing. Pretty sure OTT does piledrivers and such.

What do piledrivers have to do with chair shots to the head?

brianblaze

weareallmarks wrote: »

eh... how many of you youtube ecw on a regular basis. They built that off chairs to the head. You all popped for balls caving in peoples skulls....
Hopefully we all know better now and that is good, but we do need to keep off our high horses on this one. Unless you are all 15, in that case I take everything above back

I'm in my mid 30s and was the perfect age for ECW and all the hardcore stuff when it was on. I didn't like it then, and I still don't. What's the point of it! The odd table break, yes, ladders, yes, but whacking lads with a chair, pass.

Balls Mahoney is dead. He died of a heart attack but they found he had chronic CTE in his port mortem. It's a stupid thing to put your body through, especially on a small show for little or no money

B.A._Baracus

weareallmarks wrote: »

eh... how many of you youtube ecw on a regular basis. They built that off chairs to the head. You all popped for balls caving in peoples skulls....
Hopefully we all know better now and that is good, but we do need to keep off our high horses on this one. Unless you are all 15, in that case I take everything above back

It's all hindsight tho.
Sure ECW chairshots, especially balls back in the day, were cool. But people know better now. Same goes for the NFL.
We could go back on so much things that's happened in wrestling and compare it to now. Sure making a diva prance around in a g-string on raw? aint gonna happen anymore
Or the ever PC promo by Roddy Piper where he says about Mr T "He's the only guy who wears more chains than his anchestors" ... times change.

showpony1

weareallmarks wrote: »

eh... how many of you youtube ecw on a regular basis.

I would say next to nobody.

brianblaze

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Or the ever PC promo by Roddy Piper where he says about Mr T "He's the only guy who wears more chains than his anchestors" ... times change.

Let's not forget his Goldust promos....
Or the half blackface...

weareallmarks

Fair point on the hindsight. But my point is that we all enjoyed it, the chairshot argument is never framed with 'i used to love watching lads get cracked in the skull, but i know better now'

It is all 'chairshots are bad and if you like them you are a moron'. The diva G-string thing is what most teenage fellas would rather see than the wrestling, if we are being honest. If we are not, then we can say the opposite.

Times change, 100% mate, but we cant pretend they never happened and we didnt enjoy g-strings and chairshots

Thats probably going to be the name of a memoir soon

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

It's all hindsight tho.
Sure ECW chairshots, especially balls back in the day, were cool. But people know better now. Same goes for the NFL.
We could go back on so much things that's happened in wrestling and compare it to now. Sure making a diva prance around in a g-string on raw? aint gonna happen anymore
Or the ever PC promo by Roddy Piper where he says about Mr T "He's the only guy who wears more chains than his anchestors" ... times change.

ThePott

I'm comparatively a pretty recent wrestling fan, I've only ever known wrestling without chairshots to the head really. Watching old stuff where people get smashed with a chair is uncomfortable for me. We can see the effects hardcore wrestling has had on people today. Even in MMA you can see the long-term effects of concussions on athletes.

Performers take enough risk and I don't feel there's ever any need for a chair to the head. I've known people who were happy to take a stiff shot in the ring and they got concussed as a result. It's an easy thing to brush off when you're younger and you might get a rub for being a tough SOB who puts their body on the line and 'grabs the brass ring'. There is no real need for it. As I said, it's easy to take those bumps when you're young and dumb etc. There'll probably be plenty of incidental concussions and injuries from wrestling, why add to it and increase the risk of potential serious problems down the line. Wrestling is built on the illusion of violence, it's acceptable to not be laid out with a headshot.

For heat, I feel like the same can be accomplished without headshots, maybe a few extra swings to the body. If it's a toughness thing, I think we're at the point now where people know and appreciate wrestling for what it is and don't need to see people inflict seriously potentially career-effecting harm.

I know there's old school guys who want stiff, tough hardcore stuff. I get it, that's what you grew up with you want something that isn't flowery and so people don't laugh at you for being a wrestling fan but there's a reason (many reasons) why there's a new kickstarter for a broken down wrestler every month or former superstars aren't living long or are a shadow of their former selves. Performers shouldn't have to take headshots for your brief enjoyment when they have to put up with the consequences years down the line.

leggo

We started to learn about CTE in the mainstream with the Chris Benoit case in 2007. ECW died in 2001.

jface187

the eternal struggler wrote: »

What do piledrivers have to do with chair shots to the head?

It was the point of the OTT fan up Joe hole about how bad chair shots are, but not saying anything for the balcony dives, piledrivers or any of the other stuff OTT do.

the eternal struggler

jface187 wrote: »

It was the point of the OTT fan up Joe hole about how bad chair shots are, but not saying anything for the balcony dives, piledrivers or any of the other stuff OTT do.

Yeah but what has a piledriver got to do with a chairshot to the head? I don't see the connection.

jface187

A piledriver is a very dangerous move. So are chair shots. Both are banned by WWE (Excpet for taker). My point was certain fans get on a high horse about chair shots and think there being all "woke" or something and ignore burning hammers, piledrivers and other risky moves.

I recall an interivew a few years back where the young bucks were called out for taking chair shots and they said it didn't feel any worse then a DDT. I don't think banning chair shots solves CTE problems and it annoying when some fans seem to think it does.

diusmr8a504cvk

I, for one, welcome our new chairshot overlords.

the eternal struggler

jface187 wrote: »

A piledriver is a very dangerous move. So are chair shots. Both are banned by WWE (Excpet for taker). My point was certain fans get on a high horse about chair shots and think there being all "woke" or something and ignore burning hammers, piledrivers and other risky moves.

I recall an interivew a few years back where the young bucks were called out for taking chair shots and they said it didn't feel any worse then a DDT. I don't think banning chair shots solves CTE problems and it annoying when some fans seem to think it does.

A chair shot is getting hit with an inanimate object made of steel full force to the skull, a piledriver is a work, you know this, right?

oneilla

jface187 wrote: »

A piledriver is a very dangerous move. So are chair shots. Both are banned by WWE (Excpet for taker). My point was certain fans get on a high horse about chair shots and think there being all "woke" or something and ignore burning hammers, piledrivers and other risky moves.

I recall an interivew a few years back where the young bucks were called out for taking chair shots and they said it didn't feel any worse then a DDT. I don't think banning chair shots solves CTE problems and it annoying when some fans seem to think it does.

A piledriver done correctly has your shoulders taking the impact on the other person's thighs.

B.A._Baracus

the eternal struggler wrote: »

A chair shot is getting hit with an inanimate object made of steel full force to the skull, a piledriver is a work, you know this, right?

jface187

Really? Wrestling a work? Gee thanks for telling me and missing my point. It was Owen chair shot that broke Steve neck right? Seems clear my point not getting across and sure it's boring for others. You can pm to go more into detail about it.

brianblaze

jface187 wrote: »

Really? Wrestling a work? Gee thanks for telling me and missing my point. It was Owen chair shot that broke Steve neck right? Seems clear my point not getting across and sure it's boring for others. You can pm to go more into detail about it.

Owen left Austin's head about six inches out of his things.

The concern for a piledriver is that someone might botch it. Not that their shoulders might hit the other person's legs?

The Canadian Destroyer was just demothballed by WWE because someone showed Vince the video of it and he said it was cool. Saying a move is bad because it's banned in WWE isn't really a valid argument.

Stupid shots to the head are pointless when you can do it right, and protect yourself with the same visual impact

jface187

I never said the WWE banning the move made my point valid just it highlights the danger of the move. You seem intent on making me an idiot that doesn't get that wrestling a work.

My point is I don't think people should get high and mighty about chair shots but happy to let wrestler's break there neck doing risky moves/spots. As one of my original points said Daniel Bryan has not taken many chair shots to the head but his style caused him his problems. Taking away chair shots does not solve the problems of head trims in wrestling

brianblaze

jface187 wrote: »

I never said the WWE banning the move made my point valid just it highlights the danger of the move. You seem intent on making me an idiot that doesn't get that wrestling a work.

My point is I don't think people should get high and mighty about chair shots but happy to let wrestler's break there neck doing risky moves/spots. As one of my original points said Daniel Bryan has not taken many chair shots to the head but his style caused him his problems. Taking away chair shots does not solve the problems of head trims in wrestling

I also think that excessive dives done wrong are dangerous, same with any move done wrong. But you can do them right, you can't take an unprotected shot to head with a chair correctly

Also

http://nerdreactor.com/2013/07/01/wwe-randy-orton-and-daniel-bryan-fined-for-chair-shots-to-the-head/

Sirsok

brianblaze wrote: »

I also think that excessive dives done wrong are dangerous, same with any move done wrong. But you can do them right, you can't take an unprotected shot to head with a chair correctly

Also

http://nerdreactor.com/2013/07/01/wwe-randy-orton-and-daniel-bryan-fined-for-chair-shots-to-the-head/

If the same visual and sound can be created due to previously "gimmicked" chairs whats the problem

By all accounts the aew chair shot was ok, jt just went wrong how is that any different to hsrdcore hollys table spot that spliced opeb his back.

Safe move executed badly

leggo

The problem with the AEW chair shot is that Cody is now in a position of high influence within wrestling and him doing it, gimmicked or not, sends a message that this is cool and doing this stuff is what will get you noticed by the likes of AEW. That position of influence is something he's deliberately sought and makes a big deal of. He releases videos of him hiring new people and making business decisions trying to hype how big of a deal and life-changing AEW is with him at the core of it.

That has a ripple effect. After that happened, I spoke of how you're now going to have idiots in small promotions doing this without gimmicks on shows in front of 100 people in the backarse of nowhere. Low and behold, a few weeks later we're having this discussion in the Irish Promotions Thread.

People use the "But they're grown adults who can make their own decisions" argument to let Cody off the hook, but that to me just screams of someone who doesn't actually know the reality of how wrestling is. Most trainees starting out are kids who lack real world perspective and just don't think of their health so this stuff has to be drilled into them, and there are a lot of irresponsible promoters/trainers around who'll let it happen, so when you see someone high up doing something like that it just sets all the good work done by everyone else back. Case in point: here we are having this conversation here.