Irish Promotions Thread *Please read post 1* (*Mod Warning Post #3947)

showpony1

leggo wrote: »

They couldn't afford me, I don't work for pizza.

Ah no, I'm messing. I'd like to have a working relationship with them. It'd be good for fans, when we did we talked about doing joint-offers for their nights and ours etc. But there's lads making decisions there known for burning bridges and falling out with people wherever they go (like wouldn't some kinda ICW tie-in have been better for everyone when they came over? Instead they tried to compete by running against them and forced fans to either drop a bomb on both or pick), so it is what it is. It's bad for fans, bad for their wrestlers who had to lose out on possible ICW bookings and opportunities to do paid bits with us for a bigger audience, but as long as nobody says anything and their lads slate anyone on here and Twitter who does to try get points and bookings with the bosses who support this (when they're not sending abusive emails themselves), then at least it's good for Joe and that's all that matters. ðŸ‘

I'm not a worker with OTT just was listening to low blows last night & was wondering why you think it's in the interest of OTT to align with the Woolshed parties and offer a cheaper package deal etc? The seats are all sold out for OTT next show within hours and it will be jammed there on the night, while I imagine MITB on a Sunday night in the Woolshed will be a tougher sell.

leggo

I don't really want to get into figures, it does nobody any good and will come across a different way to how I meant it. What I would say is that we'd actually probably have a leg up because more people are going to watch WWE than an indie show, and people who will know they're watching a PPV would rather do something special for it when possible as they can sit at home on their own or with friends any month. The most I've heard OTT have actually sold is around 420 (from someone who'd know these figures). We've sold out over 600 regularly, where you couldn't actually get a ticket, I don't think that's happened with OTT yet. Like you could go to the door on Saturday night and get in. And Tivoli has a 500 capacity max. I understand there's a buzz around it because it's fresh and new, but buzz doesn't always translate to good business. Look at ECW, 1PW, FPW, I could go on with indie promotions who got a buzz but made fundamental errors too.

Don't get me wrong, I think that's really impressive and they've done a good job feeding a market that was ready and waiting for them. Again Irish indie wrestling is a tough sell with essentially one small, capable crew of guys ready to be booked on a moderate-sized show, so I'm delighted to see one finally get off the ground in a big way. But let's not believe the propaganda here and stick to facts if you're gonna bring it up. Selling out 50 floor seats to the same 50 people who always buy them (and some of those are comps) does not equal actually selling out.

My point there was that it's pretty much the same audience, we did a lot of early promo for OTT to help get them off the ground so a lot of the people that come to our nights go to theirs because they heard about it through us, and don't want any bad blood because they like both products. So it makes sense to work together, or at least not throw bombs at each other. I don't want to compete or have a rivalry: they always run Saturday nights cus of their gimmick and we always run Sunday's cus of ours, so we're never going to compete anyway. We both benefit - and more pressingly, fans benefit - from everyone working together, by both companies succeeding and making the scene as a whole bigger. That's where I was coming from with that point.

I'll flip it: to you as consumers, would you not rather see business done the right way instead of petty stuff like this, when in the long run what it'll mean is that you get a better experience at the end? Instead of one person starting rivalries behind closed doors and trying to 'work' people to try divide fans and run everyone else out of town for their own benefit. All I'm saying. Because all that happens that way is, like every Irish indie promotion that's ever got a buzz, is that the novelty wears off, people become jaded and it fizzles out within a couple years. Or the people who run it get distracted by their own personal gains elsewhere and the whole thing goes to ****.

My position is that I couldn't care either way. Because I do a show about wrestling, based in Ireland aimed at Irish fans, I'd be remiss to ignore OTT completely so have to stay abreast of things happening there. But every time I so much as mention them I'm bombarded with tweets or posts from their lads under aliases ripping into me. So, while I understand if people think I'm this or that because I'm being vocal and accountable (and this is likely the first most have heard about any of this), stand in my shoes for a minute. My only recourse is to call it out for what it is and to call for an end to it (or do I let lies be spread about me and my business?) and my honest position is that I'd be happy to work with them on some stuff and it's crazy and petty not to because of one man's neurosis, so I repeat that. It'll likely never happen. But if we put it out there and it gets shot down, at least then eventually people will see it for what it is. One thing boards will know about me through the years, if you know me, is I'm completely honest and transparent in doing business, even if the truth is ugly, because I've a firm belief that if you need to be a snake in the grass then it's bad business and you'll be found out eventually.

Latte1

Leggo blocked me on Twitter about two or three months ago for asking why he doesn't discuss the Irish wrestling scene. Personally i didn't think it warranted being blocked.

Anyone who went to Ah Ted or last Saturday nights show would know that there was far more than 450 there, which is the figure Leggo thinks is the most they got. Even on Saturday night it was absolutely packed. They wouldn't have been able to accommodate another 20 fans for health and safety.

Leggo needs to understand that OTT draw people in because of the talent, atmosphere and storylines. All entirely generated by themselves whereas Leggo's Woolshed parties draw people because of a PPV being on TV.

Leggo's WWE Parties were always going to be a draw. Of course people are going to head out to a bar to watch a big WWE PPV. Leggo boasting about drawing X number of fans is like a barman in my local town of Gorey boasting that he drew 500 fans for a Man Utd vs Man City game.

Let's have some realism here lads.

showpony1

Latte1 wrote: »

Leggo blocked me on Twitter about two or three months ago for asking why he doesn't discuss the Irish wrestling scene. Personally i didn't think it warranted being blocked.

Anyone who went to Ah Ted or last Saturday nights show would know that there was far more than 450 there, which is the figure Leggo thinks is the most they got. Even on Saturday night it was absolutely packed. They wouldn't have been able to accommodate another 20 fans for health and safety.

Leggo needs to understand that OTT draw people in because of the talent, atmosphere and storylines. All entirely generated by themselves whereas Leggo's Woolshed parties draw people because of a PPV being on TV.

Leggo's WWE Parties were always going to be a draw. Of course people are going to head out to a bar to watch a big WWE PPV. Leggo boasting about drawing X number of fans is like a barman in my local town of Gorey boasting that he drew 500 fans for a Man Utd vs Man City game.

Let's have some realism here lads.

Leggo was referring to 450 tickets sold before the night not counting walk-ins, I was at the Father Ted themed show it was uncomfortably busy that night and they claimed after there was 600 there.

My first OTT show was the one with Sabu last year so I missed the shows that were covered on Lowblows, I just had heard the one where Leggo went in on Will Humperdink which I thought was over the top. Myself & the guys I go with enjoyed him on the Mic so perhaps he had improved since the earlier shows.

I love all the politics involved in the Irish scene of our beloved craft.

weareallmarks

lads

chill

leggo

Latte1 wrote: »

Leggo blocked me on Twitter about two or three months ago for asking why he doesn't discuss the Irish wrestling scene. Personally i didn't think it warranted being blocked.

Anyone who went to Ah Ted or last Saturday nights show would know that there was far more than 450 there, which is the figure Leggo thinks is the most they got. Even on Saturday night it was absolutely packed. They wouldn't have been able to accommodate another 20 fans for health and safety.

Leggo needs to understand that OTT draw people in because of the talent, atmosphere and storylines. All entirely generated by themselves whereas Leggo's Woolshed parties draw people because of a PPV being on TV.

Leggo's WWE Parties were always going to be a draw. Of course people are going to head out to a bar to watch a big WWE PPV. Leggo boasting about drawing X number of fans is like a barman in my local town of Gorey boasting that he drew 500 fans for a Man Utd vs Man City game.

Let's have some realism here lads.

See it's this kind of messiness I'm looking to avoid, I get this crap all the time since the original OTT fallout (which was sparked on their end, I was paying to their shows and posting complimentary stuff).

I remember your tweets and you were annoying more than one person over the course of a couple months before you were eventually blocked. You've clearly got an axe to grind and I don't know you, nor do any of the other people you were bombarding with tweets (many you'd delete after we did get back to you with fair replies), so that's just odd. Please stop following me across multiple platforms with this trolly stuff.

showpony1

Leggo showing up at the OTT arena would be box office.

leggo

showpony1 wrote: »

Leggo showing up at the OTT arena would be box office.

No it wouldn't. Nobody gives a **** about this stuff. People just want to enjoy wrestling and want to be free to do so without any stupid drama. That's the point I'm making here. We're all just adults who like wrestling. There's no reason any of us should fight or hate each other, lord knows there's enough people out there already judging us without judging ourselves internallyz

LeaveitOutLads

Not a second account. Actually a first time poster on the site. Just to say that this situation should be strictly between the two principal owners/runners of both OTT and WWE Parties Ireland. No need for middlemen to be getting involved from either side and making matters worse or more difficult. All good trying to stick up for what you believe in but there are civil ways in doing so . Props the last time u see this account post again. Aint a fan of forums

showpony1

LeaveitOutLads wrote: »

Props the last time u see this account post again.

*logs back into his actual account*

leggo

NLW_Info wrote: »

It is a discussion forum though in fairness. Users should be allowed to discuss all things related to Irish Wrestling. To be fair, if someone has an opinion on any aspect of any Irish wrestling show, surely this is the place to discuss them. If someone wants to bash a show the didn't enjoy, they should be able to do it here. If another person attended the same show and loved it, they should be able to say so and question why someone else didn't like it etc. etc. Surely that's the whole point of a DISCUSSION FORUM.
Im sure there's people arguing over Raw elsewhere on boards.ie. No need to threaten closure of threads just because guys are disagreeing about certain things. If Leggo wants to talk OTT, telling others not to mention him in relation to it makes no sense. Let people DISCUSS and DEBATE.
I think the mods are far too quick to step in. Its not play school, its a discussion about wrestling companies, likes, dislikes, the business end of it, the entertainment end of it. Unless someone is being proper abusive, is there really any need for Mods to step in here.
I disagree with Leggo on so many levels. Alot of his facts are pure wrong and he comes across quite arrogant. But He's entitled to his opinion, as am I. If he wants to post here, and i want to respond, that should be OK too.
It is after all ... a discussion forum.

Looking at OTT for example, if Leggo feels a certain way about it, that's his own business. Let him voice his opinion. If a fan of OTT feels like defending the product, then let them. If a guy who works for Leggo wants to come on and defend WWE Parties, whats the harm?
Honestly, its a forum. Discuss and debate. But at the end of the day, I don't think anyone other than the mods are taking it all that serious.

Anyway, that's me banned haha!! bu-bye!

Jamie,

While the theory of what you say is true, it's actually you, specifically, who's stopping this from happening though. I mean, I was totally pro-OTT from the get-go. I didn't enjoy the character you portrayed and made a couple tweets and mentioned it on the show (as I agreed I would with your co-promoter when we discussed this). Now you can confirm...we've never met right? I've no problem with you. I don't know you. And I didn't comment about you, the person, just the character you portrayed that I'd paid money to watch. I just felt your act took away from the cringey characters OTT were looking to get away from in the likes of WWE, and given I understand how the company have scaled back from you as a performer and changed up your act, that seems to be a fair complaint that internally several agree with.

You were quite sensitive about the comments I, and several others, made. One way or another, people were under the influence and a bunch of tweets came out directed at me. So I responded and then put the matter to bed, saying it was water under the bridge and encouraged people to support you, and we went our separate ways. I'd no interest in covering you guys since all I got was attacked for what I felt was very fair, positive coverage, but I wasn't going to do anything to hurt you and even extended several olive branches to help you promote certain shows that were rebuffed, which is your right. We'll still give you guys the odd mention on the show though because it interests our listeners.

This kind of childish carry-on has now continued here with your guys signing up under aliases to attack people on here making similarly fair onservations about your company. Don't BS: you want this to stay open because that's what you're planning to do and are putting forward this populist view to justify that. It's transparent as anything.

So if you and your trainees can accept the fact that if you put yourself out there to be discussed to begin with, you may not like everything said, but it's better to be discussed than not at all, then yes we can have exactly the discussion you're suggesting here. But if you're going to encourage and participate in attacks on anyone that says a bad word about OTT and you specifically (and people generally don't, you guys put on a good show!), then the mods have to act to prevent messy conversations like this from happening, and you're going to get people like me who know exactly what the story is calling you out on it. Which is probably a bit embarrassing for you.

You're hurting your company. You may have guys who are looking for bookings telling you you're right here and posting supportive messages on social media, but you're hurting them too by making Irish wrestling look smalltime on one of Ireland's biggest websites. So just accept that people may not like your performances sometimes, but that's okay, especially when you're booking the thing. Similar ventures you've been involved with have gone under over equally silly reasons. Act like you've been there before man and maybe you will get there. Like I said, you're doing good right now. This is such a silly thing to hurt your company's image over.

noisenotmusic

leggo as someone outside of this whole thing and a fan of both OTT and LowBlows you're coming off incredibly petty with these posts. Like your entire argument over those last posts is "we sell more tickets to PPV showings than they do to shows so I know what's best for business" when they're not remotely comparable.

showpony1

I didn't know William was shoot promoter - I find it funny that Leggo was establishing a working relationship with the company and singled out the promoter for heavy criticism on the first review 😂

leggo

noisenotmusic wrote: »

leggo as someone outside of this whole thing and a fan of both OTT and LowBlows you're coming off incredibly petty with these posts. Like your entire argument over those last posts is "we sell more tickets to PPV showings than they do to shows so I know what's best for business" when they're not remotely comparable.

I get you but that's not at all the point I'm making, I'm writing in work so maybe that's coming across wrong. My bad in that case. I tried to differentiate the difference between what we do and they do when I said that we had a leg up because we sell stuff related to WWE, essentially making the same point you are. It's not comparable. They're selling a COMPLETELY different product. We're not competing rivals and I don't want an atmosphere like that. But reacting to criticism when you put yourself out there is the same in any field. You've got to be a pro and take it on the chin.

Our deal was that, if they wanted free coverage then we had to have the right to give honest thoughts and reviews, my view being that it sounds awful listening to someone fawning over everything in a product like they've been paid for it. So Humperdink being a promoter doesn't really come into the equation. I wasn't looking for anything out of them. We have a podcast with a decent amount of listeners for what it is, as far as I was concerned I was happy to help them out with free plugs, but we weren't just going to be bought but would be fair and objective to them. I was. I gave them great reviews because I did enjoy myself, a few things notwithstanding.

I really don't know what I could've done difrerently: if I don't cover them, I'm 'not supporting Irish wrestling'. If I give them roundabout praise that I don't feel, I'm selling out. If I criticise them, I'm blacklisted and told I'm being 'worked'. If I offer olive branches, I'm rebuffed. If I say nothing when I'm having my name dragged through the dirt publicly or privately, I let my name get dragged through the dirt. If I say something, I'm petty and arrogant. I run a podcast twice a week for free because I love doing it, I've run a bunch of free nights for people and the stuff I do charge for (because I'm putting my own money in to finance it) is as cheap as they come. I'm sorry lads, I know OTT is the hot new thing and all, but I'm struggling to see how I'm the bad guy here?

showpony1

I think you should have went to the monthly shows and reviewed them each month but kept a distance regards getting involved trying to cross promote if you wanted to do an objective podcast.

leggo

Look tbh, hindsight being 20/20, I wouldn't have done anything related to Irish wrestling and took the hit from people who wanted it covered, leave it to someone else. If they wanted to fawn over it for exclusives and comps to the shows, that was their call. We didn't get any noticeable bumps in listenership or anything from the content. I was quite happy to get out of wrestling when I did with the few friends that I made there and the stories and lessons I had and call it a day because of this type of stuff. It was nice to work in different areas dealing with professionals. When we spoke about it, I felt like a lot had changed on the scene and the main players in it had grown up considerably and this kind of stuff wouldn't have happened. Yet here we are...still bickering on boards 10 years later. And I legitimately don't have time for it, Irish wrestling doesn't significantly impact my day or life in any way whatsoever.

Lads at OTT, I wish you well. Genuinely. It's a shame it didn't work out.

showpony1

i wonder if bottom rope podcast has a negative view of an ott character/show will they also be blacklisted?

Sirsok

OTT should book Conor Hurley.......

NLW_Info

showpony1 wrote: »

I didn't know William was shoot promoter - I find it funny that Leggo was establishing a working relationship with the company and singled out the promoter for heavy criticism on the first review 😂

Have never had anything to do with promoting or booking OTT. His facts are wrong, statements are false. Not worth my time responding. Case closed.

ShagNastii

Should probably say nothing but as I’m a contributor to here I'll throw my lot in.

This drama and shade throwing is never a good look lads. I’d imagined most people here on boards.ie PW care very little about the whole “he said/she said” of it all. Petty is a word that’s been raised- hits the nail right on the head. Feck sake, we’ve only here for a bit of craic. The same reason I listen to Leggo’s podcast and the same reason I regularly attend OTT. If there is beef between both parties sort it out amongst yourselves, bite your lips and don’t air your laundry in this public forum.

Lowblows/WWE parties and OTT are both fantastic products delivered with very few flaws. Both have been rip roaring success’ and are a credit to all involved. As Leggo has touched on, Lowblows doesn’t need OTT and OTT doesn’t need Lowblows. It’s a pity the working relationship fell through as it was nice fit to have the two enterprises linking in together but looking at it I’d say bridges are burned and that’s that, leave the sleeping dog lie.

That said (and I hope it won’t be inflammatory for me to say that) yiz are big boys- I’d ask you both to be the bigger man here and try start afresh. It’s so easy. Don’t be so serious about the whole affair. It involves the tiny little pool that is Irish wrestling fans. Come at it with a thicker skin and realise that neither of you are out to sabotage each other’s efforts. It has been all positive as of late for Irish wrestling fans with all these new happenings let’s keep it going..

showpony1

NLW_Info wrote: »

Have never had anything to do with promoting or booking OTT. His facts are wrong, statements are false. Not worth my time responding. Case closed.

I would love to see William accept the offer from Leggo to go on Low Blows and hear both sides of this story.

Hb6g6

Any idea on when the Ryan Smile vs. Scurll rematch will take place?

leggo

There are 3 people who essentially run the day-to-day of OTT. Jamie/William is one. While yes, it's someone else who technically calls the shots for OTT, between the 3 of them they run or have a heavy hand in most Irish wrestling promotions. I think only IwW, CCW and FFPW aren't directly run by them (though obviously if you look at their roster they're on good terms with FFPW. Wrestling.ie have another person in charge but the lads handle the booking of lads etc). So to say he's not running it is...while he can technically say that and not be an outright liar...it's not exactly fully truthful either, unless there's been a falling out. Like his profile is NLW info, and what's the name of the main OTT Title?

I wouldn't hold your breath on any of those invites being followed up on, though I'd like to be pleasantly surprised and be wrong. After the initial falling out, I did email them and people I knew within the company to sort things, and the head guys were a brick wall while their lads rolled their eyes at them. It's such a big split over something so tiny and petty, so half an hour talking would probably clear things up. But again, stubborn people tend to be stubborn. Invite is there to all though!

Hb6g6

leggo wrote: »

There are 3 people who essentially run the day-to-day of OTT. Jamie/William is one. While yes, it's someone else who technically calls the shots for OTT, between the 3 of them they run or have a heavy hand in most Irish wrestling promotions. I think only IwW, CCW and FFPW aren't directly run by them (though obviously if you look at their roster they're on good terms with FFPW. Wrestling.ie have another person in charge but the lads handle the booking of lads etc). So to say he's not running it is...while he can technically say that and not be an outright liar...it's not exactly fully truthful either, unless there's been a falling out. Like his profile is NLW info, and what's the name of the main OTT Title?

I wouldn't hold your breath on any of those invites being followed up on, though I'd like to be pleasantly surprised and be wrong. After the initial falling out, I did email them and people I knew within the company to sort things, and the head guys were a brick wall while their lads rolled their eyes at them. It's such a big split over something so tiny and petty, so half an hour talking would probably clear things up. But again, stubborn people tend to be stubborn. Invite is there to all though!

Can we please just get back to the actually Wrestling talk instead of all this Low Blows vs OTT stuff. No need for more of your guys dirty laundry to be aired here if you ask me.

showpony1

Hb6g6 wrote: »

Can we please just get back to the actually Wrestling talk instead of all this Low Blows vs OTT stuff. No need for more of your guys dirty laundry to be aired here if you ask me.

Low Blows vs OTT - sounds like an idea for a Tivoli show, whos side would Don Marnell be on?
Screw job on Leggo?

Hb6g6

showpony1 wrote: »

Low Blows vs OTT - sounds like an idea for a Tivoli show, whos side would Don Marnell be on?
Screw job on Leggo?

Dude can you please stop whoever you are all your doing is trying to restart this

Sirsok

Will we stop discussing the internal workings of wwe?

Will sky sports stop reporting on who is gonna be signed or if the board will sack a manager.

I wasnt aware of lowblows before this debate but ill be sure to check it out, and the irish promotions thread does be dead quite abit was nice to read the activity of it, obviously its personal preference to learn about backstage politics and wwe must realise there is a huge amount of people like myself hence why they release all the documentries and the monday night wars episodes etc..

leggo

I agree, people actively discussing something - and yes sometimes that means they can do so negatively too - actually means they're taking an interest and are more likely to invest in it emotionally. In other words, it's a good thing!

For example: a friend of mine is starting little comedy videos he wants to put up on YouTube, and he showed one to friends in work today. They all latched onto it and started saying one of the catchphrases he said in it back to him, though he was wondering if they were just slagging him. I said, "No, it means your catchphrase worked because it stuck in their head. They'll probably show their mates now which is exactly what you want. If they didn't care they'd just be like 'oh yeah that was good' to be nice and forget about it."

I don't understand why people want to put on a show and then get butthurt once people start talking about it. Having people go, "Ah that was really good" all the time means that eventually 'really good' will become standard and they'll want more, and get bored with you if you don't provide it. Having people getting invested and actively wanting to know and talk more about what you do, even if it means some won't like certain aspects, is way better. Call it 'The Law of Cena'. If you go out of your way to try and shut down such conversation, or troll people who partake in it and gather your minions around to like whiney social media posts on your behalf, you're just going to piss people off eventually and disengage them. You can have that one for free OTT.

B.A._Baracus

I like cake.

jaykhunter

Mod note: A friendly reminder to use this thread for it's intended purpose - updates & discussions about Irish Promotions. Any personal baiting/trolling will be dealt with. Move on.