Advice Please [Intrum Justitia]

JimLeahy

Cut a long story short i lost my job about 20 months ago and had a mbna bill of around 4.5k which i started ignoring (1st mistake of course), i ignored all letters instead of getting in touch. Now for the last year or so ive been getting letters from this Intrum Justitia crowd and with whatever way they work the most recent letters have been for just over 5k. (btw ive received at least 10 letters from them, they didnt give up after 2/3 like i read about in the beginning)

Now this mornings letter is from Bill Holohan & Associates Solicitors saying i have 7days before legal proceedings if i dont get in touch.

I Dont need to be told i should have rang them at the start, i know i should, i just would like some advice on where to go now.

Can they bring me to court? Would they for this sum?, iv read postings here telling people they wouldnt bother for €100/€200 phone bills etc.

Obviously if i rang them now they would know it was because of court threat and would be able to use that in the future.

thehairyelbow

Try to get in touch with MABS if you can. They're up to their eyes in it at the moment. But you should get advice over the phone.

Cabaal

They often don't bother with 100e phone bills as its not worth their while, but there's some difference between 100e and 4k in relation to making it worth their while.

Get in touch with MAB's asap, you can't ignore it any longer

Mr. Presentable

They will bring you to court and then you will have costs in addition to your debt. You will also lose access to all credit for the next 7 years.

I suggest you borrow the money elsewhere and pay MBNA, then get some advice on managing the new loan - MABS or whatever.

jor el

JimLeahy wrote: »

Can they bring me to court? Would they for this sum?

Yes, and yes. There is a massive difference between a €100 phone bill and a €5000 credit card bill. Right now, you should contact both MBNA and possibly the solicitor, depending on what MBNA say. Don't contact IJ.

Cabaal

jor el wrote: »

Yes, and yes. There is a massive difference between a €100 phone bill and a €5000 credit card bill. Right now, you should contact both MBNA and possibly the solicitor, depending on what MBNA say. Don't contact IJ.

Its often the case that the solicitor is actually the debt collection company though,

cookie1977

You should contact FLAC asap
http://www.flac.ie/
they're very busy but should be able to help you with proper advice. Do it today

tallaghtoutlaws

Ok this is what I did when I lost my job 2 years ago. Contact the credit card and tell them straight up you are out of work and you have no way of paying the full amount off. Tell them you want to cancel the card completely leaving an outstanding balance so their is no more interest piled up. Tell them then you want to arrange payments on the remaining balance that suit your financial situation.

I did this with mine and I pay 85 a month to pay of the outstanding balance. When I get work in between I throw an extra few bob off it to get rid of it faster. But once you agree to pay them in some way they will play ball.

Oh and apologise big time for not contacting them earlier. Tell them you have been struggling with more than their bills also. Hope you figure something out.

cookie1977

This is good advice. Companies are much more understanding when you contact them and are proactive about your difficulties. It saves them money (paying to hassle you) and allows them to recoup the debt you have with them. Good for everyone all round. It maybe too late in your case if they've sold the debt on though

jor el

Cabaal wrote: »

Its often the case that the solicitor is actually the debt collection company though,

And sometimes the case that they're not even solicitors, or so I've heards.

In this case, seems like this is a legit solicitor. http://www.findyoursolicitor.ie/solicitor/1011/holohan-and-associates-bill/366/bill-holohan.html
Going by this article, these guys don't mess around, so the OP should take this very serious. They do seem highly professional though, which means they should be open to negotiating the problem.

Mr. Presentable

jor el wrote: »

And sometimes the case that they're not even solicitors, or so I've heards.

In this case, seems like this is a legit solicitor. http://www.findyoursolicitor.ie/solicitor/1011/holohan-and-associates-bill/366/bill-holohan.html
Going by this article, these guys don't mess around, so the OP should take this very serious. They do seem highly professional though, which means they should be open to negotiating the problem.

Actually a point well worth remembering. They are not out to get you, they are out to get money, and will be open to offers.

eth0_

Bill Holohan is PART of Intrum Justitia.

However, that doesn't mean you should ignore the letter. Write back (recorded delivery) explaining your situation. Enclose a breakdown of your monthly outgoings and how much money you receive in benefits. AFAIK if you offer them a repayment plan they can't legally harass you for more money than you have demonstrated you can afford.

You should also contact MABS for help with drawing up a repayment plan.

Don't ignore it any longer; you really don't want to get to the point where Intrum Justitia have you declared bankrupt. If you're made bankrupt in Ireland you're pretty much financially screwed for life.

cookie1977

You're highly unlikely to be made bankrupt on a debt of only 4500-5000 euro but do be proactive on this and contact them as the above poster says.

dellas1979

Can I add that, to me anyways, it suspiciously sounds like you are trying your best not to pay money you owe, and are asking here what will happen if you dont.

Do you intend to pay off what you racked up?

Because most of the advice on here is how to pay it back, talk to MBNA etc which you dont seem intent on doing.

cardol

Bill Holohan is PART of Intrum Justitia - same address on here http://www.findyoursolicitor.ie/solicitor/1011/holohan-and-associates-bill/366/bill-holohan.html as on the IJ letterhead!

smodgley

friend of mine had same problem they too owed almost 6k, they went to the credit union, the loan officer there contacted the cc company and they struck a deal to pay off the card in total for 3k,which the friend was more than happy with as were the cc company,

muck_savage

You do NOT have to pay any of it back!! By bringing a third party interloper into this MBNA have broken the contract, and also broken the data protection act 1988/2003. It is against the law for a company to share your private information with a third party, As part of contract law only TWO parties may have a contract.

If your interested in fighting this and winning, without paying one cent to these bullies, please reply to this post and i will help you out!!

you have NO CONTRACT with intrum justitia and hence you do NOT have to deal with them!! that is FACT!!

cardol

@muck savage Does that apply even when they threaten you with calling in debt collectors?

muck_savage

cardol wrote: »

@muck savage Does that apply even when they threaten you with calling in debt collectors?

yes!! you have no contract with any debt collector!! in contract law only 2 parties may hold a contract!! if one party in that contract, gives information to a third party they are in breach of the contract and hence break the contract!! see letter below, as referance on how to deal with these PARASITES!!



AB Wolfe & Co
70 Sir John Rogerson’s Quay
Dublin 2
Ireland

17TH December, 2010

Our Ref: 3rebut1712101
Your Ref No.: 8210159680
In answer to your letter dated; 07 December 2010

Dear John Brady,

In response to your letter dated 07 December 2010, I am sorry but I have been legally advised that as YOU and the company YOU represent (being of debt recovery solicitors) have no legal standing pertaining to my affairs.

I therefore may decline any further communication with you as I am dealing directly with Robert Finnegan, Chief Officer of 3 Ireland and consequently I am awaiting documentation I have requested from him.

I have recently sent a letter with our proposals, and subject to receiving the requested confidential information pertaining to our case, I do not wish to discuss this matter any further. Furthermore, I ask that you respect our legal rights and reputation and refrain from involving any third parties to the civil dispute.

As I have already stated, I am unaware of any contractual relationship between us, and
if you are not the legal holder of the alleged original instrument of indebtedness in its
original form and contact me again in relation to alleged monies owed to 3 Ireland, I
shall seek remedy in the Harassment Act.

Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act, 1997

Demands for payment of debt causing alarm, etc. 11.—(1) A person who makes any
demand for payment of a debt shall be guilty of an offence if—

( a ) the demands by reason of their frequency are calculated to subject the debtor or a
member of the family of the debtor to alarm, distress or humiliation, or

( b ) the person falsely represents that criminal proceedings lie for non-payment of the
debt, or

( c ) the person falsely represents that he or she is authorised in some official capacity to enforce payment, or


( d ) the person utters a document falsely represented to have an official character.

(2) A person guilty of an offence under this section shall be liable on summary
conviction to a fine not exceeding €1,500.

(If someone is charged with this offence and it is tried as a summary offence (that is,
in a District Court by a Judge only) the maximum penalty is €1,270 and/or 12 months
imprisonment)

Please note any future correspondence should be addressed to James: O’Sullivan (James of the Ancient O’Sullivan Clan) and not the entity of legal fiction ‘Mr James O’Sullivan’ or the corporate fiction JAMES O’SULLIVAN or any of its variations. Please note any correspondence incorrectly addressed will be returned unopened and unread. Registered post
incorrectly addressed will not be signed for.

Yours in truth, sincerity and honour
Is mise le méas,

By:__________________________
James: O’Sullivan
All Rights Reserved. None Waived. No Assured Value. No Liability.



this is a sample!! if ya need help let me know!!

as a FREEMAN!! you decide your life not others, no one has power over you only GOD!! If done right you will defeat ALL debt collectors!!

daenerysstormborn3

OP, please take the advice posted in the first page of this thread.

cardol

@muck savage Thanks for the sample! I'm being pestered too and threatened, but I'm not inclined to give an inch!

Should it escalate to a court hearing (although I doubt it as I believe they haven't got the right) I may PM you for advice

cardol

muck_savage

do not let it get that far!! stop it before court, thats my advice!! rem a court summons in this is a INVITE to court which you may decline!! as you do not have a contract with them you do not have to deal with them!!

send them 3 letters, this is the way its done, and they are defeated lawfully after this, and cannot persue you after youve sent them!!

Jumpy

Um. Muck savage is peddling freeman bull**** I do believe.

ResearchWill

muck_savage wrote: »

do not let it get that far!! stop it before court, thats my advice!! rem a court summons in this is a INVITE to court which you may decline!! as you do not have a contract with them you do not have to deal with them!!

send them 3 letters, this is the way its done, and they are defeated lawfully after this, and cannot persue you after youve sent them!!

You say the contract is between the bank and the op and there can be no other involvement, how can you say that without ever reading the contract. Your advice is wrong and very dangerous, a court summons for a debt is not something to ignore lightly, if you knew anything about law you would know that a court can record judgement in your absence and set instalment orders but if any lender seeks a committal order any you do not turn up a bench warrant will be issued and the debtor will be brought to court in custody if necessary. Please OP do not take any of this advice speak to the bank MBNA are getting out of business in Ireland they will do deals. Also if you have no income or little income and can prove it they may even let it go they are only interested in collecting if they can.

Adyx

cardol wrote: »

@muck savage Thanks for the sample! I'm being pestered too and threatened, but I'm not inclined to give an inch!

Should it escalate to a court hearing (although I doubt it as I believe they haven't got the right) I may PM you for advice

cardol

Whatever else you do, please do not take any advice from muck savage or anyone who claims to be a "freeman". They are quite happy to spout their interpretation of the law when it suits them but then claim the law doesn't apply to them when it come to them paying their debts, parking fines etc.

They are an insidious and deluded group, quite happy to take from society whilst refusing to give anything back.

Cabaal

muck_savage wrote: »

By bringing a third party interloper into this MBNA have broken the contract,

Nope they haven't,

and also broken the data protection act 1988/2003. It is against the law for a company to share your private information with a third party,

Massively incorrect, if you sign for services with the likes of MBNA you agree to the T&C's, this state that they do in certain situations have the right to pass details to third party.

Debt collection is one of these situations,

I find it interesting that you selectively pick what laws and contracts that suit you, on one hand your using the DPA but on the other your ignoring contract law and the rights and responsibilities laid out in that contract.

In fact in many of your other posts your selectively ignore even government laws saying they don';t apply and you can do what you want.

One of the responsibilities in this case is for the user of the credit card to pay debt, if they don't this is what happens.

Whilst we may not like what MBNA are doing they are legally entitled to do so and the data protection commissioner will of course confirm this based on the contract agreed.

As part of contract law only TWO parties may have a contract.

sigh, :rolleyes:
See above.

If your interested in fighting this and winning, without paying one cent to these bullies, please reply to this post and i will help you out!!

OP for the sake of yourself don't listen to anything this user posts, its all nonsense.

you have NO CONTRACT with intrum justitia and hence you do NOT have to deal with them!! that is FACT!!

No here's the thing, you could try deal with MBNA (they may or may not allow you to) but sometimes dealing with a debt collection agency can go in your favor too.

This comes into play especially if you want to reduce the debt, of course this will only work if you have the means to pay some of it.

Example being I know of atleast 4 people recently you managed to agree reduced payments of between 50-60% of the total debt.

Now MABs will actually confirm what I've said above (I talked to a MABS rep about the above a few days after and he said it happens a fair bit).

The downside to the above is your credit rating will be in ****e for a few years after but tbh due to non-payment of the debt up until now thats happened now anyway.

So dealing with a agency has its ups and down sides but whatever happens don't ignore them and/or MBNA.

To be honest the best advice I could give you is talk to MAB's, don't depend on information posted by random people on the net and certainly don't follow any nonsense posted by muck_savage.

Get yourself an appointment with MAB's.

Cabaal

muck_savage wrote: »

Please note any future correspondence should be addressed to James: O’Sullivan (James of the Ancient O’Sullivan Clan) and not the entity of legal fiction ‘Mr James O’Sullivan’ or the corporate fiction JAMES O’SULLIVAN or any of its variations. Please note any correspondence incorrectly addressed will be returned unopened and unread. Registered post
incorrectly addressed will not be signed for.

Yours in truth, sincerity and honour
Is mise le méas,

By:__________________________
James: O’Sullivan
All Rights Reserved. None Waived. No Assured Value. No Liability.

this is a sample!! if ya need help let me know!!

as a FREEMAN!! you decide your life not others, no one has power over you only GOD!! If done right you will defeat ALL debt collectors!!

:rolleyes:

Only god decides your life...thats not very free then eh as it means "something" else has control

Anyway, god aside your assumption is foolish as the court will just as easily decided where you will spend your time...jail for example, lets see god get you out of that one. :pac:

Came across this gem on another thread which clearly shows what happens when some fool try's to use the freeman nonsense you've posted above against the Irish legal system.

In short.....neither the Gardai or courts will pay any attention to it, oh and the newspapers will pick up on it so everyone will know your an idiot.

Enjoy the reading
http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/bobby-of-the-family-sludds-may-be-jailed-2878029.html

For those that don't want to read it all here's the best bits

A various stages during the hearing, the accused described the prosecution case as negligent and the Garda testimony as falsified. He said he felt that the force was conspiring against him. He applied for an adjournment to allow him produce video evidence. When this application was unsuccessful, he called for trial by judge and jury.

Judge Early explained that he was not entitled to any such trial before finding the case against Bobby of the family Sludds proven. The court learned that the defendant had 24 previous convictions for motoring offences, including two for driving without insurance.

Sludds said he was not working. He dismissed the State as a fictional entity. He asked: 'Have I offended anyone here?', prompting a chorus of 'No' from his supporters.

' The people have spoken,' he concluded.

oh...and it ended like this

The judge concluded otherwise, imposing €670 in fines for the lack of driving licence, motor tax and NCT. He recorded a three month jail sentence on the first insurance charge, suspended on Bobby of the family Sludds entering a bond to be of good behaviour for two years. On the second insurance charge, the sentence was four months, suspended on similar conditions.

It seems god didn't save him from the legal system, better luck next time eh?

Cuddlesworth

Cabaal wrote: »

It seems god didn't save him from the legal system, better luck next time eh?

All your advise is spot on. But you do have to wonder if he lost against the system. The money he would have saved over two years(possibly more) by not paying tax, insurance and NCT fees would have been far greater then 670 euro's and a suspended sentence is as always a joke. If he is a long term dole scrounger, a conviction is a useless threat against his "earning" power.

cardol

Cabaal wrote: »

Enjoy the reading
http://www.wexfordpeople.ie/news/bobby-of-the-family-sludds-may-be-jailed-2878029.html

Brilliant reading, and he saved money!

Tayla

ResearchWill wrote: »

You say the contract is between the bank and the op and there can be no other involvement, how can you say that without ever reading the contract.

I may be wrong about this but isn't there some truth in what muck_savage is saying? I thought that if it went to court that the original bank or credit card company you had the contract with is the one who has to bring you to court?

ResearchWill

Tayla wrote: »

I may be wrong about this but isn't there some truth in what muck_savage is saying? I thought that if it went to court that the original bank or credit card company you had the contract with is the one who has to bring you to court?

Usually yes, but in most if not all loans a person enters into the bank has a clause allowing them to sell the debt, think of NAMA on a smaller scale. But what can work sometime and it's not a trick is that when the debt is sold the buyer is not given any information other than the amount of the debt and the debtors details. The person who has bought the debt many not have enough documentation to enforce the debt, so it is a good idea to write firstly denying the debt, that's just to make sure you don't reactivity any limitation time, secondly requesting that the company forward copy statement and contract. I have heard in some situations people doing this and the collector dropping it. But it's not freeman stuff just good old fashioned law.