* Honours Maths paper 1 * AFTERMATH

Shayanzadeh

I dunno if this was posted already, but here it is.
In my opinion the paper was absolutely horrible!!!! Was hoping for an A1, but no chance...

Twice the integration of square root of r^2 - x^2, with limits 0 and pi.
You are basically getting the area between the graph (which comes from the circle x^2 + y^2 = r^2) and the x-axis.

You had to let x = r sin theta.

x^2 = r^2 sin^2 theta.

dx= r cos theta d theta.

In the square root, r^2 (1-sin^2 theta), change that to r^2 cos^2 theta.

So you have twice the integration of r cos theta. r cos theta d theta.

Take 2r^2 outside, change cos ^2 theta to 1/2 (1+cos2theta).
Cancel 1/2 with 2 outside.

The rest is straight forward...

josephdaly111

Sorry. Meant discovering maths p.362

madmax92

It was harder than 2006 paper which I found hardest.
Anyway supervisor who is in my school, she is actually maths teacher, and she said that it was terrible + quotation "f*cking joke they did this year".

They will have to give us free marks, otherwise most of us are f*cked.

biggaman

seriously? FML! I thought i got it right and it was alot simpler than that. Oh well..

TimeToShine

it was an unfair question for most people but still if you want your A1 you're gonna want to be figuring that out

Digits

Oh thank god I learned the area of the disk theorem last night. It was still a horrible paper though.

Seanh111

I dont usually post here, but I took the hl paper in 2009 and managed to get an a2, but if I had dont this years paper I would have struggled to even get a b3!

I hope ye all do ok, and dont forget theres still 50% of the marks up for grabs so a good grade is stil very possible! best of luck!

DiddyKong

Our teacher predicted 7 part 9(c), so that good, but the rest!!!

ruadhan

Wow... Everyone here is going a bit crazy.. The area of circle/disc is definitely onthe course. We did it in class and it's in the book and stuff. You just integrate one quadrant of a circle from r to 0, using y=root of r squared minus x squared... It's pretty straight forward..
Anyway yeah, the rest of the paper had some hard bits definitely but, to be honest, and don't all attack me now, I found it grand overall. Hopefully as long as I don't f up paper 2 I can possibly get an A

TimeToShine

ruadhan wrote: »

Wow... Everyone here is going a bit crazy.. The area of circle/disc is definitely onthe course. We did it in class and it's in the book and stuff. You just integrate one quadrant of a circle from r to 0, using y=root of r squared minus x squared... It's pretty straight forward..
Anyway yeah, the rest of the paper had some hard bits definitely but, to be honest, and don't all attack me now, I found it grand overall. Hopefully as long as I don't f up paper 2 I can possibly get an A

Making everyone feel great man, keep it up

john1741

ughh, that was a paper I would trade my grandmother to do a different exam. I might of passes but really hoping to do well in P2, lucky I wasnt going for an A

madmax92

Seanh111 wrote: »

I dont usually post here, but I took the hl paper in 2009 and managed to get an a2, but if I had dont this years paper I would have struggled to even get a b3!

I hope ye all do ok, and dont forget theres still 50% of the marks up for grabs so a good grade is stil very possible! best of luck!

Thanks man, but if they will do same thing to paper 2, then we are in troubles.

And I wanted just to get something around D-C in HL maths and go away from Ireland, to go to uni in Poland (as polish citizen don't have to pay for higher education!)

Catacomb

Anniefearon wrote: »

sorry that comment was meant to be in response to the guy saying he did well frankly i just wanna hear how bad ppl did so i can feel better

I couldn't do:

1: b) (ii),
2: b (i) (ii) & C
3: b) (i) (ii) & C
6: b (ii) (iii) & C (ii) (iii)
7: C (ii)
8: b (ii) & C

Hope that helped you...

mihaf

this was all because of last year's exam paper , it was so easy so they felt cheep .they deliberately made this paper hard , so on one would question about the new project maths because so many are going to do bad this year . now there is goi to be perfect reason for the new cource

red_red_wine

drg85 wrote: »

Yes, but you had to justify it - which is tough when the function is technically undefined!

Well it says 'based on the derivatives' and it tells you that f'(x) = g'(x)...surely that's enough of a justification for saying that the slopes are always the same and also that it is decreasing (given that the derivative is always < 0).

GV_NRG

kahf1_01 wrote: »

Guys, guys. we have to remain focused here and keep a cool head.

I did the honours paper too. I found it unusually difficult. I did question's 1,2,3,6,7,8.

1. Part A was grand. The B part was a gift, it was the factor theorem. And B part ii was horrible. The C part was ordinary and do-able.

2. Part A was normal. The B part was absolutely ridiculous! horrible. The C part was weird and impossible too.

3. Part A fine. Part B well, the first part was fine, but part ii was NOT! C I managed I reckon.

6. Part A fine. Part B yeah fine. Part C NO WAY!

7. Part A yeah fine. I think everyone got that can't complain. Part B the parametric question was a bit of a nightmare. Part C well, I reckon I got that. I said it was diagram C, as it was an increasing function.

OK, and finally I thought question 8 was the only nice normal question on the paper everything right bar B ii ...

and does anyone know if that last theroem was the sphere/volume theorem

im the exact same except i did Q5 instead of Q6

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

Question 9 there was our question 8!

^^^ Area of a disc!

All I could think of is to find the volume of a cylinder and divide by h to get the area of its base.... Unfortunately the other 7 questions had me too bogged down to get that far in the exam :mad:

would someone please explain to me why, since we have been learning this course for 5/6 years, they put in project maths into OUR FU**ING EXAM?!?!?!

nommm wrote: »

I heard before if somethings not on the curriculam, they have to give full marks to everyone who attempted it. Anyone know anything about that?

yes this happened a few years ago i think in maths and they got all the marks if they even attempted it.

LilMissCiara wrote: »

It's easy to see where the scheme will be changed.

1b and 3b will both go from 10 and 10 to 15 and 5 I reckon! Some more stuff I think will change!

this will surely happen they have to adhere to the curve whatever happens

Patriciamc93 wrote: »

Personally i think that they should allow students to take paper 2 in ordinary level next week ( if they want) and work out some sort of marking scheme ......lots of people just wanted to pass and are extremely upset!

definetly because if they fail maths they have to repeat.

also http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056293757&page=5

am i and micheal and all those people on that thread the luckiest people alive to have seen this yesterday? i literally saw it by chance this morning! :O

PJelly

A question about that E^-xsquared question....
Am I right in thinking that the differentiate was a chain rule, leading to -E^-xsquared . -2x which ends in 2xE^-xsquared?

Edit: @GV_NRG, I know right! Thank god for Michael. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have gotten the disc question right.

SL293

I dont understand how they could put on such a cruel paper! They are supposed to be 'promoting' higher maths! Any hope of getting a good grade is now gone!

electrictrad

If anyone has a list of their solutions, could ye throw them up

Some of mine are

1. a 4/x+1

b ii (-infinity. . . -3,-1,1,3,5. . .infinity)

c +-3 and +-6, but I can't remember which. . .

1 a -1<=x<=2

3 a ans=i

b (ii) x=i
x=1-i

c (ii) Both are 0 0
0 1
5 a 210

b i x=4/3

ii 1.63

6 a dy/dx = -sin2x

b i dy/dx = -2xe^-xsquared

ii (0,1)

iii Max

c i x=-1
y=2

ii (-3,3)

7 a dy/dx = -5/12

b ii 2x

c ii Diagram A

8 A (x^4)/4 + (2x^3/2)/3 + C

b i ln root 5

ii 4 + ln3

madmax92

red_red_wine wrote: »

Well it says 'based on the derivatives' and it tells you that f'(x) = g'(x)...surely that's enough of a justification for saying that the slopes are always the same and also that it is decreasing (given that the derivative is always < 0).

well i have written that as f'(x) = g'(x) and slopes are negative curves have "to go down"

In middle example I said that f'(x) =/= g'(x) (where they are different) will be it ok?

velvets-rule

Well I'm a repeat student who got an A1 last year and in the mocks this year I got an A1.

I'll be lucky if I pull out a high B with this exam. It was very, very difficult, yes - however the main issue I found with it was timing. There's no way the SEC could expect students to finish question like Question 2 or Question 3 in 22 minutes. It's completely ridiculous.

Digits

am i and micheal and all those people on that thread the luckiest people alive to have seen this yesterday? i literally saw it by chance this morning! :O

Yes, yes we are.

JamJamJamJam

They'll be talking about it on Drivetime after the break that started like 30 seconds ago

martins2309

Leaving Mats is on at RTE radio ONE

christine1016

What the hell was question 4 (b) all about???? could anyone even attempt it??And also 6 part c?? like i am ok at maths not the best but not the worst, got a c3 in my mocks and was hoping to do better in this as i have practised even more since then. but i defiently failed that paper!

DaveMur1

Realistically it's higher level maths , everything that came up was on the course, anyone who was borderline failing should have dropped back, instead of risking their leaving cert & most importantly there's nothing you can do now . Honestly thought it was a nice paper.

Patriciamc93

Dont you love when they quote from boards!

Keano!

wow! i'm an ordinary level student, but two of my mates (lads) were in tears after this saying they're going to fail maths now in the Leaving. Dunno what to even say to them, horrible to hear the things I've been hearing. Their teacher was virtually speechless and normally she never stays quiet!

Bets of luck to everyone in paper two... agree with the views that students should be allowed to sit the ordinary paper 2 and have the marks arranged.


Actually... one girl in my room today asked about 45 minute sin if she could do an ordinary level paper instead... supervisor said no and she was horrified! Can't you do the paper you wanted?

All seems very unfair... but like my own teacher said, the papers were going to be a lot harder this year to make project maths next year seem like a good idea. ordinary was very difficult for some.

partyatmygaff

Only one word can describe this exam...

WHAT?

The SEC are despicable. It's plainly obvious what they were trying to do with this paper. They want to promote their new syllabus by using us our year as a scapegoat. I've never seen so many people complaining in unison after an exam. Even A1 students felt they'd dropped down to a C or D.

Personally, I don't think I did too badly. I may have gotten a low B... possibly

Q1a: Simple simplification. No major problems here.
Q1b: Part i was just the factor theorem, perfectly normal. Part ii however was impossible. The best I could do was say n was infinity.
Q1c: Relatively easy

Q2a: Modulus inequality. Reasonable.
Q2b: Alpha and Beta roots question. Reasonable except for part ii which was strangely tough.
Q2c: I've never seen a question like this being asked. I managed to prove i and ii easily enough but I couldn't even attempt part iii.

Q3a: Conjugate complex numbers. Nothing strange here.
Q3b: This question looked easy but I got some extremely strange answers for both parts.
Q3c: Part i was nigh on impossible. Part ii and part iii were perfectly fine though.

Q4a: Great question.
Q4b: This question had almost nothing to do with series at all. I got part i and part ii reasonably well. I may have gotten part iii right but I almost certainly didn't get part iv right. I guessed and put down n=1.

Q5a: Great question:
Q5b: Normal log/indices question.
Q5c: Extremely easy induction question.

(I'd say I may have managed something near 50 marks in question 5)

Q6a: Far higher standard part a than past years. Nothing too difficult all the same.
Q6b: Difficult combined use of the quotient and chain rule. Something that would have normally been a part c. Managed to get it out though I think.
Q6c: Part i was quite easy. Part ii and part iii were nasty questions.

Q7a: Implicit differentiation. Not too bad really.
Q7b: Parametric differentiation. A very long question but ultimately not too difficult.
Q7c: I actually enjoyed this question. It was purely theoretical. The differentiation was a bit tough but part ii was simply inspect and answer. Very few people actually understood the question though from what I saw today. What you had to realise was that f(x) and g(x) both had the same slopes at the same x values. Then you had to realise that dy/dx is negative therefore the curve is decreasing. For those two reasons, it was Diagram A that was the right choice.

Q8a: Standard integration question.
Q8b: Part i was perfectly fine. Part ii... not so much.
Q8c: THANK YOU BOARDS!!! I didn't even know this proof existed until last night. I had a look quick over it the night before and it paid off.


So all in all... one of the strangest ever maths paper 1s to ever have been examined. I shudder at the thought of Paper 2

LilMissCiara

Was speaking to someone who does pass maths and he told me I was the 3rd person who told him it was the hardest exam ever. He went on and said he was only speaking to 3 people about it!

It's diabolical!

Shayanzadeh

I had never seen Q8 C.
But here is the solution:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72691763#post72691763
I dunno if how I answered it is the way it's done in the books...

madmax92

DaveMur1 wrote: »

Realistically it's higher level maths , everything that came up was on the course, anyone who was borderline failing should have dropped back, instead of risking their leaving cert & most importantly there's nothing you can do now . Honestly thought it was a nice paper.

We are people and we just had 2.5hrs for it. Also consider that after seeing the paper everyone get stressed.

partyatmygaff

DaveMur1 wrote: »

Realistically it's higher level maths , everything that came up was on the course, anyone who was borderline failing should have dropped back, instead of risking their leaving cert & most importantly there's nothing you can do now . Honestly thought it was a nice paper.

No one expected anything like this though. It was abnormally difficult compared to any other year.


Strangely enough, I managed to do all 8 questions. For the first time in my life. The ironic thing is that my three best questions (1,2,3) went poorly but the question I had never ever attempted before prior the exam (5) could have quite possibly gotten me a 50/50.

doctorg

I think we need to go on strike!
Absolutely brutal paper.

GV_NRG

PJelly wrote: »

A question about that E^-xsquared question....
Am I right in thinking that the differentiate was a chain rule, leading to -E^-xsquared . -2x which ends in 2xE^-xsquared?

Edit: @GV_NRG, I know right! Thank god for Michael. If it wasn't for that, I wouldn't have gotten the disc question right.

i would have been the same! THANK YOU MICHEAL!! haha

velvets-rule wrote: »

Well I'm a repeat student who got an A1 last year and in the mocks this year I got an A1.

I'll be lucky if I pull out a high B with this exam. It was very, very difficult, yes - however the main issue I found with it was timing. There's no way the SEC could expect students to finish question like Question 2 or Question 3 in 22 minutes. It's completely ridiculous.

yes i found this too, maybe i am just slow at maths but i did find that some of the questions needed more time to complete them than 22 mins

PJelly

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Q7c: I actually enjoyed this question. It was purely theoretical. The differentiation was a bit tough but part ii was simply inspect and answer. Very few people actually understood the question though from what I saw today. What you had to realise was that f(x) and g(x) both had the same slopes at the same x values. Then you had to realise that dy/dx is negative therefore the curve is decreasing. For those two reasons, it was Diagram A that was the right choice.

I think I love you.
A part C in the bag for me. BADLY needed!
Was the integration B (ii) not like (i) in reverse? For (i) I got 1/2Log5
and got 24 for (ii) I ended up with half integral of U over one from 2 to 10..

Sound right?

Brussels Sprout

Just heard people on about this on the radio and read some of the comments here. Sounds like ye guys got screwed over big time. I'm doing a Masters in applied maths and would love to have a look at some of these questions. Anyone got a link for it?

doctorg

GV_NRG wrote: »

i would have been the same! THANK YOU MICHEAL!! haha



yes i found this too, maybe i am just slow at maths but i did find that some of the questions needed more time to complete them than 22 mins

e^-x^2 just differentiates to -e^-x^2 I think, It's in the log tables

LilMissCiara

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Just heard people on about this on the radio and read some of the comments here. Sounds like ye guys got screwed over big time. I'm doing a Masters in applied maths and would love to have a look at some of these questions. Anyone got a link for it?

It's on examinations.ie under material archive!

josephdaly111

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Just heard people on about this on the radio and read some of the comments here. Sounds like ye guys got screwed over big time. I'm doing a Masters in applied maths and would love to have a look at some of these questions. Anyone got a link for it?

Examinations.ie

TimeToShine

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

Just heard people on about this on the radio and read some of the comments here. Sounds like ye guys got screwed over big time. I'm doing a Masters in applied maths and would love to have a look at some of these questions. Anyone got a link for it?

http://www.examinations.ie/archive/exampapers/2011/LC003ALP100EV.pdf

Alcohol_MAN

I was very frustrated in the exam but I felt comfortable with it after. Maybe a B something. Looking at my genorous estimation marks I got an A2 but that of course won't happen.
Here's my breakdown:

1. Got it all out but maybe the wrong answer for part C) b= 21/8

4. I got it I think. My answer agreed with other people but I forgot to write the lim bit. Didn't get part 4 though not enough time.

5. All out no problem

6. Maybe. Part b I said x=0 and y=1 for the turning point but it came out to be a maximum. C was sound.

7. Fairly good. The graphs were funny and I couldn't give two reasons but I knew C was the right one.

8. Got a and b1. Attempts part c but it kept goin to the sphere

I kept on waiting for any corrections that needed to be made :,(

PJelly

doctorg wrote: »

e^-x^2 just differentiates to -e^-x^2 I think, It's in the log tables

But isn't it a chain rule where you need to differentiate X^2 too?
Otherwise you'll have -E^-x^2 = 0 which isn't solvable.
Ln0 is undefined.

Paczini

I don't know if someone posted it already
but I just went through the syllabus
And that what it mentions about the integration proofs

Definite integrals with applications to areas and volumes of revolution (confined to cones and spheres).

They didn't mention DISC!

jumpguy

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Q8c: THANK YOU BOARDS!!! I didn't even know this proof existed until last night. I had a look quick over it the night before and it paid off.

I hate you.

lol jkz :pac:

Agree with on Q5, was a welcome piece of loveliness in that exam. :P Having to convert indices in (b) (ii) to logs though was unusual (but ultimately grand, just used to doing it the other way).

PoisonIvy

Guys, quick question about how they mark the proofs.. I missed a line at the end of my factor theorem.. How many marks should I get?

partyatmygaff

jumpguy wrote: »

I hate you.

lol jkz :pac:

I actually forgot to multiply by 2 so I didn't get full marks for it anyway. I'd say due to the fact most people didn't get it you'll get most of the marks for simply doing the circular integral.

So, how did the rest of the exam go for you jump? I'd say this exam has changed the plans of thousands of people. It certainly did for me. I thought i'd be able to ace paper I

doctorg

PJelly wrote: »

But isn't it a chain rule where you need to differentiate X^2 too?
Otherwise you'll have -E^-x^2 = 0 which isn't solvable.
Ln0 is undefined.

Can you use chain rule on e? Maybe that's why I couldn't solve it!

firestarter197

Alcohol_MAN wrote: »

I was very frustrated in the exam but I felt comfortable with it after. Maybe a B something. Looking at my genorous estimation marks I got an A2 but that of course won't happen.
Here's my breakdown:

1. Got it all out but maybe the wrong answer for part C) b= 21/8

4. I got it I think. My answer agreed with other people but I forgot to write the lim bit. Didn't get part 4 though not enough time.

5. All out no problem

6. Maybe. Part b I said x=0 and y=1 for the turning point but it came out to be a maximum. C was sound.

7. Fairly good. The graphs were funny and I couldn't give two reasons but I knew C was the right one.

8. Got a and b1. Attempts part c but it kept goin to the sphere

I kept on waiting for any corrections that needed to be made :,(

Pretty sure A was the correct graph. f'(x) is negative since the denominator works out to (root2 x + 1/2)^2 + 1/2 which is always positive and the numerator is -1, therefore dy/dx is negative. Graph C shows them both increasing, Graph A shows them decreasing

PJelly

Alcohol_MAN wrote: »

6. Maybe. Part b I said x=0 and y=1 for the turning point but it came out to be a maximum. C was sound.

7. Fairly good. The graphs were funny and I couldn't give two reasons but I knew C was the right one.

I got (0,1) too! makes me feel a bit better about my answer.
But I said A for 7 C. Due to the reasons above in my other post.