* Leaving cert history - predictions / aftermath * (1 thread please)

Dr.Evil

I actually struggled to get strengths for poor aul Eamon, it came across as I hated the poor guy because I could only think of weaknesses and a few strengths.

randylonghorn

GSI wrote: »

I can't see there been any other way to do history apart from learning off anyway. It's all facts, you know it or you don't. No logic or thinking in it whatsoever IMO anyway.

You just made Randy cry!!

History, the *real* study of history, is ALL about logic and thinking and understanding; recognising patterns; identifying cause and effect; and, indeed, applying that understanding of the cause and effects of historical events and the patterns to modern society and current events.

Ok, at LC it tends to get more bogged down in facts and figure, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Btw, this is one person who got his A in History and his First in it in an Honours degree and never learned off *anything*. I could barely remember a half dozen dates, was always terrible with them ... but I understood the logic of why things happened, and how they came to follow one another.

hotmail.com

randylonghorn wrote: »

You just made Randy cry!!

History, the *real* study of history, is ALL about logic and thinking and understanding; recognising patterns; identifying cause and effect; and, indeed, applying that understanding of the cause and effects of historical events and the patterns to modern society and current events.

Ok, at LC it tends to get more bogged down in facts and figure, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Btw, this is one person who got his A in History and his First in it in an Honours degree and never learned off *anything*. I could barely remember a half dozen dates, was always terrible with them ... but I understood the logic of why things happened, and how they came to follow one another.

I think only the exceptional students can get away with not learning off stuff and still produce an A grade essay. For the rest of us, it's all about repeating facts.

randylonghorn

hotmail.com wrote: »

I think only the exceptional students can get away with not learning off stuff and still produce an A grade essay. For the rest of us, it's all about repeating facts.

Tbh, it's all about getting into the habit of thinking in a certain way.

Unfortunately, the LC as it stands doesn't seem to encourage that ... not anymore anyway.

loopylocky

oh my god i could have died of happiness when i opened the history paper , i always start at back work way to front only look at question when i come to the topic.

Europe topic4: jarrow march 6 pages of absolute gold and i have kinda small writing as well.
Europe Topic3: did Medicine/mariecurie/development of car. (5 pages) exactly the same as an essay which got 79 srps out of 60 and 40 out of 40 for Markers impression.

Irish topic 6) did affect of ecc and UN on ireland ( 5 1/2 pages)

then with about 45 mins left turned to documents i thought coleraine was certain or teacher said 1% chance of apprentice boys comin up and to my horror it was there , still got about 5 pages done on the documents questions.
if i do not get an A1 i will not be a happy camper :O

loopylocky

randylonghorn wrote: »

Tbh, it's all about getting into the habit of thinking in a certain way.

Unfortunately, the LC as it stands doesn't seem to encourage that ... not anymore anyway.

in all honesty you cannot just think your way through a history paper, you need to now what happened in a specific event, how it happened, the backround of why it happened and effects it caused , most events in history have not been exactly logical so there not really a possibility to logically think your way through a paper.

randylonghorn

loopylocky wrote: »

in all honesty you cannot just think your way through a history paper, you need to now what happened in a specific event, how it happened, the backround of why it happened and effects it caused , most events in history have not been exactly logical so there not really a possibility to logically think your way through a paper.

Oh, I'm not suggesting you start thinking logically just on the day!

Rather that as you read history you concentrate on making the cause-and-effect connections, and remembering that way, rather than "learning off" vast reams of stuff.

And most things *do* actually follow logically from one another; it's not always a logic that makes sense to our modern sensibilities until we immerse ourselves into the thinking of the period, and occasionally, especially with absolute monarchs / dictators, there is a dearth of "sane" logic, but it is much easier to remember events and understand them if you approach it as a web of interconnectedness rather than as simply something to be "learned off".

SDTimeout

I think i was one of the few who didn't learn off A1 standard essays from my class. I liked to learn a lot of things about specifics. The amount of stuff about the Nazi's not on our course is a shame. Needless to say these were the people feeling hard done by yesterday when the titles changed a little bit from the usual and they could not work theirs in. I knew a lot about Anti-Sem and Totaliterian and i knew a lot of cool stuff about the Naval Policy so was able to use that.

I feel bad for those who can learn off A1 essays and not get to use them, i did it for a piece of writing i wrote for English a month ago. It's just how i chose to learn History and thankfully it paid off.

AdamD

Im with Randy on this one, I generally get an A in my essays and I dont use much dates or statistics, a well-structured essay with solid analysis > Pages of facts barely strung together.

The_Don_21

I learnt off about 9 or 10 essays that i thought would come but not one of them appeared on the paper!
For Pursuit of... i knew 3rd Home Rule, Sinn Féin in 1918 election and the differences between CnaG and FF's economic policies!
none of these came up but i did the essay on maintaining democracy because it was basically CnaG..i knew the law and order and the economy and just said that if the country went bankrupt it would have effected deomcracy! it was a bit waffley but not too bad.
For MLK i just wrote about Civil Rights and tried to keep mentioning his name, even if it wasn't really relevant like when talking about desegregation in education.
For D&D i did the characteristics of a Nazi state...i hadn't relly gone over the Nazi's but i knew Rise of Fascism and the Holocaust so i drew from them and managed to get 4 pages
Documents i thought would be Coleraine but i went over AB's the night before so that was okay, the first 60 marks are always easy to get anyway!
It felt terrible looking at the paper and seeing none of the essays i'd learned, but once i got writing i realised i still knew enough general info. to get 4 pages for all the essays so maybe it wasn't too bad:)

hotmail.com

The paper seemed very straight forward for me.

Europe 1920-45

Mussolini - internal and external polices = easy

Nazi Germany 33-39 = easy (talk about anything there)

Ireland 1912 - 1949

CnaG - broad open question = easy

Dev - so much you write about here, particularly if you learned off Anglo-Irish relations = easy

5th years take note, do not bother with the events leading up the Civil War. There is always two questions on independent Ireland.

aingel

randylonghorn wrote: »

You just made Randy cry!!

History, the *real* study of history, is ALL about logic and thinking and understanding; recognising patterns; identifying cause and effect; and, indeed, applying that understanding of the cause and effects of historical events and the patterns to modern society and current events.

Ok, at LC it tends to get more bogged down in facts and figure, but it doesn't have to be that way.

Btw, this is one person who got his A in History and his First in it in an Honours degree and never learned off *anything*. I could barely remember a half dozen dates, was always terrible with them ... but I understood the logic of why things happened, and how they came to follow one another.

I did history and I think I probably did awful because facts and stuff really just dont stick in my head and having french in the morning meant I couldnt do my usual cramming to get my few facts in. I love history I love reading about it and everything but the exams just took all the fun out of it by the end. I'd like to do it in college as an arts subject but is it the same as leaving cert or is it more about enjoying the history and analysing it with the information with you. Because I cant go through that again. After yesterday I dont think I'll be able to look at anything historical for about a month. hopefully I'l start to enjoy it again though

emz24white

Hey guys... i know this is for chemistry... but could anyone tell me how many pages they wrote for history? im freaking out

BazDel

emz24white wrote: »

Hey guys... i know this is for chemistry... but could anyone tell me how many pages they wrote for history? im freaking out

4+ for the essays and 1 and a half for the contextualistion question in the documents.

PaddyP056

Dr.Evil wrote: »

I actually struggled to get strengths for poor aul Eamon, it came across as I hated the poor guy because I could only think of weaknesses and a few strengths.

U were right, he has no strengths. The country would have been far better off with Collins. I despise De Valera.... could have prevented a Civil War by taking the oath and then straight after O'Higgins dies he takes it....what a gob****e

emz24white

PaddyP056 wrote: »

U were right, he has no strengths. The country would have been far better off with Collins. I despise De Valera.... could have prevented a Civil War by taking the oath and then straight after O'Higgins dies he takes it....what a gob****e

In fairness, He had the best intentions of the people at heart.. He practiced what he believed in, thats a strength if ever there was one. The majority of his decisions were made in the mindset of benefitting the people.

He hardly wanted to take the oath, Electoral Amendment Act much?

Collins is the man though

GoldRush4821

I can't understand why people start raging when one of their 3 prepared essays doesn't come up. If they realised that something on one of the case studies has to come up every year, maybe they would choose their essays better. To choose 3 seemingly random essays to learn off, each with as little likelihood of coming up as the other, and then complain seems foolish. If people had learned essays on the three case studies, let's take a look:

D+D = Characteristics of Nazi state - propaganda + nuremburg rallies could be used for a huge chunk of this
Jarrow March came up in q4

America - MLK and US affairs - Montgomery bus boycott - sorted (but you have to know the wider context too)
Q3 i think it was combined the other 2 case studies so i don't know why people were complaining about the America question

Finally, Ireland. This was a little dodgy, as the treaty didn't come up, but still

Q4 - impact on NI of international developments - case study.

So if everyone had learned the case studies and their wider context well, there would've been a lot less commotion after the exam. Incoming 5th years need to take note to know the case studies inside out at the very least, before going on doing extra essays which have less chance of coming up.

Jolly Red Giant

GoldRush4821 wrote: »

Finally, Ireland. This was a little dodgy, as the treaty didn't come up, but still

Q4 - impact on NI of international developments - case study.

Actually the Anglo-Irish Treaty Case Study could be used in this essay -

Q.3 What were the strengths and weaknesses of Éamon de Valera as a political leader?

For some reason or other many people assumed that the question asked about DeV afer independence. He was elected President of Sinn Fein in 1917 - so everything after that is valid - his role in the War of Independence - his negotiations with Lloyd George - the fact that he didn't go to the main treaty negotiations - his opposition to the Treaty and the split in Sinn Fein.

AdamD

So 1 case study came up? The biggest load of **** no info case study


cool.


Spending 2 years writing essays on the spot > Spending 2 years learning off essays

nani171

hey guys ....just wondering what you think is the maximum percentage you can get if your essay was only 2 pages long......? ran out of time...thanks in advance...:)

GoldRush4821

If there are any 5th year history students here can you tell me what irish topics you are studying and what European topic you're studying please?

spurious

nani171 wrote: »

hey guys ....just wondering what you think is the maximum percentage you can get if your essay was only 2 pages long......? ran out of time...thanks in advance...:)

The maximum you can get is the maximum allowed for the question. It's about answering the question, not filling pages. There will be people who write two pages and get full marks and people who write ten pages and score badly.

nani171

spurious wrote: »

The maximum you can get is the maximum allowed for the question. It's about answering the question, not filling pages. There will be people who write two pages and get full marks and people who write ten pages and score badly.

im afraid thats not the case buddy....12 marks per paragraph apparantly... and only had 3 paragraphs + no ending!!!

emz24white

nani171 wrote: »

hey guys ....just wondering what you think is the maximum percentage you can get if your essay was only 2 pages long......? ran out of time...thanks in advance...:)

each paragraph is marked out of 12 and there is 60 marks and 40 for overall coherence

hallieP

am going into 6th year this year... dreading history. I love it in class and could listen to it all day long but the thought of learning essay after essay makes me want to cry.. any advice for how to get through it?

AdamD

Do 1 essay a week, timed with only 40 minutes and aim for 5 pages each time.

Zhavey

GoldRush4821 wrote: »

If there are any 5th year history students here can you tell me what irish topics you are studying and what European topic you're studying please?

I'm going into 6th year now, for 5th year we studied European Retreat from Empire and the Aftermath (1945-1990) for the documents. Three case studies are British Withdrawal from India (1945-47), The Secession of Katanga (1960-65) and Race Relations in France in the 80's.

For the Irish topic, we are studying Northern Ireland and we still have to decide on the European topics were doing yet.

walshd20

Overall I was v.pleased with the paper,couple of little things I'd like to clarify.

Irish: Consolidating democracy
So I did all the usual stuff,law & order,courts act,garda,public safty,military tribunal,civil service. Though it only got me to about 3.5 pages. Then went and wrote about the economy,saying a conservative policy stabilised democracy. I then wrote a small paragraph on health and social policy,because they are features of a democrativ government but I'm not sure if that was a good move.

Europe: Stalin Society & Economy
Great essay,I pretty much wrote everything about Stalin,concentrated more on economic change though. On society I added purges,hardship in workplace and a small bit on gulags.

America: Vietnam
My shortest essay I'd say a little over four pages. The topic was fairly concise which was good. Did anyone give a paragraph or two of the background to set the context? I gave about two paragraphs. I developed three main points for why the u.s lost.

GSI

walshd20 wrote: »

Overall I was v.pleased with the paper,couple of little things I'd like to clarify.

Irish: Consolidating democracy
So I did all the usual stuff,law & order,courts act,garda,public safty,military tribunal,civil service. Though it only got me to about 3.5 pages. Then went and wrote about the economy,saying a conservative policy stabilised democracy. I then wrote a small paragraph on health and social policy,because they are features of a democrativ government but I'm not sure if that was a good move.

Europe: Stalin Society & Economy
Great essay,I pretty much wrote everything about Stalin,concentrated more on economic change though. On society I added purges,hardship in workplace and a small bit on gulags.

America: Vietnam
My shortest essay I'd say a little over four pages. The topic was fairly concise which was good. Did anyone give a paragraph or two of the background to set the context? I gave about two paragraphs. I developed three main points for why the u.s lost.

jesus lad, its july. Forget about the exams till August and enjoy the summer