* Honours Maths Paper 2 " Let's fight back :)

jamesr1775

any one else staying up all night for maths? im thinkin about it and then just taking like a few breaks or somthin

Patriciamc93

jamesr1775 wrote: »

any one else staying up all night for maths? im thinkin about it and then just taking like a few breaks or somthin

If it was another subject I would say go for it if you have the stamina....... But maths well if it will be like Friday then you might need to have alot of concentration and not be falling asleep!

Daniel S

jamesr1775 wrote: »

any one else staying up all night for maths? im thinkin about it and then just taking like a few breaks or somthin

This is a bad idea and a very good idea, all rolled into one!

ie, I need to, but shouldn't. I marked my own paper one with what I think is fair and I think I got 33%. I'm learning every proof for paper two and making damn sure I get more than 47% so I could still do the special entrance exam, and possibly use the 40 points from a pass in honours.

A C3 is out the window though, don't think I'll get 55% overall unless they mess with paper ones marking scheme.

If it was any other year, I'd be fairly confident of a C/B. Wtf was paper one...

Please, for the love of little puppies.... make paper II do-able for those not particularly good at maths.

Also, can someone send me a link to the "Linear transformation proofs", can't seem to find them anywhere!

Ditzie

PJelly wrote: »

For those that need to brush up on identities..
http://www.mathsireland.com/LCHGeneralNotes/Trig/Comp_Angle_Form/Prov_Trig_Iden_1.htm

ok I've never seen anything like them should I be freaking out? I'd really like some reassurance after yesterdays disaster!

partyatmygaff

Ditzie wrote: »

ok I've never seen anything like them should I be freaking out? I'd really like some reassurance after yesterdays disaster!

You should've done them back when you were first learning trig identities. Secant, Cosecant and Cot are nothing to be feared. Just change them to sin, cos or tan using your log tables and proceed as normal.

randylonghorn

jamesr1775 wrote: »

any one else staying up all night for maths? im thinkin about it and then just taking like a few breaks or somthin

Don't do this.

Maths is not a "learn off and regurgitate" subject; as Friday should have proven, it's important to *think*.

Adequate sleep is a prerequisite.

jamesr1775

yea true so i guess if ur going to do it you shouldnt get some proper sleep till around 10-11 pm on sunday

lynchy101

Im so pissed off I forgot my calculator for Paper 1

aingel

I#ve got revise wise maths. Its from 06 but I'm presuming its the same with just older questions but it has loads of dot product proofs for vectors.Like proving all the properties and proving pythagoras from vector methods. Do we need to know these. Some are straight forward but some are really long and complicated. usually I'd be like ok, prob wont come up but after paper one.........
Anyone any idea?

cocopopsxx

I honestly hate paper 2, I'm terrible at it! I can't see how I'll be able to use it to bring up my marks. All I can do quite easily on it is the line question, the vectors question, the probability second question and may be the circle one! I'm hopeless at trig and most probably the probability ones will be super hard.

robobobo

PJelly wrote: »

Quick silly tangent slope question...
You know how the quick way to get the slop of a tangent is -B/A?
Well, I thought that the X is always taken as A. So.. 3x-2y+y=o would have a slope of 2/3
But I've got y-2x=0. So I re-arranged it to make 2x-y=0 (multiply across by a minus) so I had a slope of 1/2. But the slope is 2. So they took A as Y and B as X.

Are you not able to multiply across by a minus in a tangent? Does that mess up its location completely?

It's actually -A/B not -B/A

Black Bloc

Theres definetly gona be a standard deviation and im gona guess it'll be abstract. 2002 is a good question as it invloves alpha and beta and a little different to the rest, hope this helps

River Song

Anyone else thinking that the option question will have the approximation for pi?

It's the last year of the options, well these ones, and I don't think it's ever been asked. Could this be another Q8(c) [disc for those who choose to block it out]..

Just realized that if it came up it'd be Q8(c) anyway :P

PJelly

Another McLaurin question here.
It's the type that I think might come up, the abstract-ish kind.
2007 Q B (ii) I need to prove it converges. So I got my Ur. and my Ur+1. Started to divide but it wasn't working out. Looked at the marking scheme. And it STARTED with Ur+1. And then subbed in r-1. Which got them Ur. Why is this? I don't see where it says you start with Ur+1. I was under the impression that you are given the Un or Rn. And you must get the Un+1 or Rn+1.
Anyone care to shed a little light on the situation?

PJelly

Michael_E wrote: »

Anyone else thinking that the option question will have the approximation for pi?

It's the last year of the options, well these ones, and I don't think it's ever been asked. Could this be another Q8(c) [disc for those who choose to block it out]..

Just realized that if it came up it'd be Q8(c) anyway :P

The quotient rule was also never asked in the history of this current course either. I expected it to come up.

Judging from the previous thread where you basically saved my live, I'm going to take what you say as gospel!

PJelly

robobobo wrote: »

It's actually -A/B not -B/A

That... was resolved like 3/4 hours ago
Thanks anyway

River Song

AHH GUYS something just hit me!

Circumcentre, Orthocentre, Centroid!

We went through them in so much detail in TY and never since, since we only did exam questions. Just a thought, but maybe one or two questions tomorrow will help?

PJelly

Michael_E wrote: »

AHH GUYS something just hit me!

Circumcentre, Orthocentre, Centroid!

We went through them in so much detail in TY and never since, since we only did exam questions. Just a thought, but maybe one or two questions tomorrow will help?

You can be asked to prove those?
The last time I saw one of those was in a vector question. Orthocentre I think. It was only needed for the question, to prove something. Not prove the Orthocentre itself.

River Song

PJelly wrote: »

You can be asked to prove those?
The last time I saw one of those was in a vector question. Orthocentre I think. It was only needed for the question, to prove something. Not prove the Orthocentre itself.

No just general questions on them.

partyatmygaff

Michael_E wrote: »

Anyone else thinking that the option question will have the approximation for pi?

It's the last year of the options, well these ones, and I don't think it's ever been asked. Could this be another Q8(c) [disc for those who choose to block it out]..

Just realized that if it came up it'd be Q8(c) anyway :P

I was thinking the same thing. If the Pi approximation does come up it'll be something along the lines of the following

A theoretical question as to why the Leibniz series isn't a good approximation for X followed by perhaps a question on the inverse tan result and then at last an approximation for Pi. That'd be worst case scenario though.


That said, it'd be an excellent Q8c though. I'd much rather a Pi approximation question than a nasty Max/Min question.

River Song

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I was thinking the same thing. If the Pi approximation does come up it'll be something along the lines of the following

A theoretical question as to why the Leibniz series isn't a good approximation for X followed by perhaps a question on the inverse tan result and then at last an approximation for Pi. That'd be worst case scenario though.


That said, it'd be an excellent Q8c though. I'd much rather a Pi approximation question than a nasty Max/Min question.

Agreed. Going to look over it very quickly tomorrow I think.

PJelly

Inverse tan pi approximation question, for when you need to practice.
2002. 8 C
Also, Leibniz? Another name for McLaurin? :P
I used to know the theory why it's not accurate, why is it again?

PJelly

Sooo, no-one knows why you start with Ur+1 instead of Ur then? (As mentioned in my previous post)

partyatmygaff

PJelly wrote: »

Inverse tan pi approximation question, for when you need to practice.
2002. 8 C
Also, Leibniz? Another name for McLaurin? :P
I used to know the theory why it's not accurate, why is it again?

Well a Leibniz series is just the Maclaurin series of arctan(x) that Leibniz used to try and approximate Pi (Or something like that anyway).

The reason why using the series isn't a great approximation for Pi is because it converges very slowly to Pi.

River Song

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Well a Leibniz series is just the Maclaurin series of arctan(x) that Leibniz used to try and approximate Pi (Or something like that anyway).

The reason why using the series isn't a great approximation for Pi is because it converges very slowly to Pi.

Damn you beat me to it! I always like saying "inefficient" though. I only read about that stuff in a book a month or so ago, as it were!

Patriciamc93

I just remembered that the syllabus says something about it is assumed that you know how to do all the junior cert stuff. So perhaps looking over constructing triangles and stuff that we have forgotten might be an idea.

Also you know that trig question in 2009 I think it was 5 and you had to draw a graph for sin ...... Something along those lines. Maybe look over that aswell.

...

River Song

Patriciamc93 wrote: »

I just remembered that the syllabus says something about it is assumed that you know how to do all the junior cert stuff. So perhaps looking over constructing triangles and stuff that we have forgotten might be an idea.

Also you know that trig question in 2009 I think it was 5 and you had to draw a graph for sin ...... Something along those lines. Maybe look over that aswell.

...

That came up on my mock. I mis-read it and thought it was sine, not the inverse sine function and drew a sine function off memory ><

PJelly

Patriciamc93 wrote: »

Also you know that trig question in 2009 I think it was 5 and you had to draw a graph for sin ...... Something along those lines. Maybe look over that aswell.

...

2009, Q5 B (i) (ii) (iii)
It was for inverse sin. Was a strange question indeed.

Patriciamc93

PJelly wrote: »

2009, Q5 B (i) (ii) (iii)
It was for inverse sin. Was a strange question indeed.

Ya i remember doing it .... Hated it! If it came up it would ruin trig for me.

River Song

Just remember that's what it should look like.

PJelly

I've always found trig a little tricky. When it gives you reams of information in a diagram and then says Show X = (something)
It's like, where do I start!

Patriciamc93

Oh and my teacher said that transformations will be big this year. He said the same about matrices in paper 1..... So I am gonna trust him on it!

PJelly

Michael_E wrote: »

Just remember that's what it should look like.

Do you like have those memorised?

River Song

PJelly wrote: »

Do you like have those memorised?

I just know what they look like :P .... so.... yeah :P

partyatmygaff

Drawing graphs is hardly a worry. For a regular trig graph here is what i'd do.

Say you have to draw sin(x) from -Pi -> Pi

Change your calculator to radians, change to table mode and enter sin(x) as the function. Then put your start value at -Pi and your end value at Pi and then just set the step to Pi/12.

Then you'll get a list of coordinates, plot the coordinates on graph paper and join the dots. Very easy.

For an inverse trig function, just change your range to be from -1 to 1 and your step to be 0.25.

Patriciamc93

PJelly wrote: »

I've always found trig a little tricky. When it gives you reams of information in a diagram and then says Show X = (something)
It's like, where do I start!

If its a rectangular or square base always get the length of the diagonal.

If it is that a pole is vertical in the air (or something similar) imagine it in the corner of a room, you might be able to see the right angles easier.

For the 3-d diagrams it will always be cosine or sin rules and phythagours.

Hope that helps in some way

River Song

OHHH i remember what I did.

I got the dots all right, so if I had joined them properly, like the diagram I linked, then I'd have gotten full marks. But I went and joined them so they resembled the sine curve, not the inverse one :P

River Song

Patriciamc93 wrote: »

If its a rectangular or square base always get the length of the diagonal.

If it is that a pole is vertical in the air (or something similar) imagine it in the corner of a room, you might be able to see the right angles easier.

For the 3-d diagrams it will always be cosine or sin rules and phythagours.

Hope that helps in some way

Also, to add:

If it gives you like ... a wedge, or loads of triangles on top of eachother, SPLIT THEM UP INDIVIDUALLY. Make sure, in doing that, you label the vertices correctly too.

PJelly

Michael_E wrote: »

Also, to add:

If it gives you like ... a wedge, or loads of triangles on top of eachother, SPLIT THEM UP INDIVIDUALLY. Make sure, in doing that, you label the vertices correctly too.

Oh I can see right angles, and split up shapes grand. I scored in the top 1 percentile in a spatial awareness aptitude test I'll have you know

It just thinking, "how do I manipulate the figures to get my desired answer"
Like... that question with the semi circle, and you have to finish the triangle inside of it. Part (ii) of that took me AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGES

Patriciamc93

And for 2-d ones which have circles. The key is the area/ length off a sector of your circle. I only found that out a few weeks ago. Makes them so much easier

jamesr1775

limits of trig functions wasnt on 2010 and is predicted this year peeps .
http://www.mathsireland.com/LCHGeneralNotes/Trig/Comp_Angle_Form/Limits_Trig_Func.htm
questions with answers there.
They might throw a horrible one up this year

nommm

Anyone want to remind me how to get the general term of the Maclaurin series? I can't remember how to do it...

PJelly

jamesr1775 wrote: »

limits of trig functions wasnt on 2010 and is predicted this year peeps .
http://www.mathsireland.com/LCHGeneralNotes/Trig/Comp_Angle_Form/Limits_Trig_Func.htm
questions with answers there.
They might throw a horrible one up this year

I usually just use L'Hopital's rule for them. but some of them look nasty! The Cos4x +Cos2x over something else just looks mental. I've no idea what's going on there.

I've never seen them venture outside the realm of "Sinax/Sinbx"

aranciata

nommm wrote: »

Anyone want to remind me how to get the general term of the Maclaurin series? I can't remember how to do it...

I really need to know this too btw! Hasn't come up in a while and I know literally nothing about them. If anyone could help...

Patriciamc93

nommm wrote: »

Anyone want to remind me how to get the general term of the Maclaurin series? I can't remember how to do it...

This might help you.....

http://www.studentxpress.ie/papers/optionsoln3.pdf

I am doing q8 on my own as we did the groups option in school and I found it to hard so I wont be much help.

partyatmygaff

nommm wrote: »

Anyone want to remind me how to get the general term of the Maclaurin series? I can't remember how to do it...

Write out the series with 1, 2, 3, 4... e.t.c under the respective terms.

Then look at the numbers which are changing in each term. It is an arithmetic sequence. Find the general term of the sequence and that is your general term.

If the terms alternate in sign add (-1)^n before the general term too.

partyatmygaff

PJelly wrote: »

I usually just use L'Hopital's rule for them. but some of them look nasty! The Cos4x +Cos2x over something else just looks mental. I've no idea what's going on there.

I've never seen them venture outside the realm of "Sinax/Sinbx"

I've heard of L'Hopital's rule but I've never actually understood how to use it. How do you use it solve limit questions?

PJelly

partyatmygaff wrote: »

I've heard of L'Hopital's rule but I've never actually understood how to use it. How do you use it solve limit questions?

This is how I use it anyway.... not sure if it's how you're supposed to though

Say you have Sin3x/Sin2x. Let the top be F(x) and bottom be G(x)
Differentiate them, and you get 3Cos3x and 2Cos2x.
Sub that back in. As X tends towards zero you get 3Cos(0)/2Cos(0)
Which gives 3(1)/2(1)
= 3/2

Not sure that's now it should be used though.
But when there's multiple trigonometric identities... I've no idea what to do.

mcrdotcom

Anyone think the vector proofs of the dot product might come up?

GV_NRG

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Drawing graphs is hardly a worry. For a regular trig graph here is what i'd do.

Say you have to draw sin(x) from -Pi -> Pi

Change your calculator to radians, change to table mode and enter sin(x) as the function. Then put your start value at -Pi and your end value at Pi and then just set the step to Pi/12.

Then you'll get a list of coordinates, plot the coordinates on graph paper and join the dots. Very easy.

For an inverse trig function, just change your range to be from -1 to 1 and your step to be 0.25.

its not that easy, you are not allowed to have those type of calculators in the exam with you.