Euro U21's 11th June - 22 July

ynwa_17

Welbeck was lucky to be on the pitch to score.

Watching Spain tonight with the ball, was like watching the style Arsenal play. Its all well and good passing the ball in and around the box, but sometimes you just need to have a shot at goal from outside the box instead of continuously passing to try and get into a better position.

opr

Chungbert Rob K by TonyBarretTimes@ @TonyBarretTimes England u21s, sponsored by Polyfilla. Papering over the cracks since 66.

Brilliant :P

Opr

DOC09UNAM

Hedman wrote: »

The biggest difference is how both countries approach grassroots football. In Spain, kids under 14 are prevented from playing 11v11 on full size pitches with full size equipment etc. There the focus is purely on teaching them the technical skills. The kids in England are brought up in a system that promotes the bigger, stronger and fitter kids instead of the technically better players. The results are pretty self evident in this match.

Isn't their also a law regarding underage working so in England they can only train for an hour and a half a day or something?

LondonIrish90

Fair bit of anti-Englishness in this thread.

For all their possession (and they were very good in that regard) Spain failed to create chances to finish England off. This wasn't helped by the fact that Pearce decided to match 2 less technical english centre mids against 3 very technical spaniards in the middle of the park. Henderson is awful though, Rodwell looked far better and Wilshere really should be there (spain have world cup winners there, we lack that experience) to add not only confidence but clear technical ability.

We deserved the goal, we have good options for the future up top who work hard and can certainly finish and we have the new Cafu at right back :pac:

Kiwi_knock

How Michael Mancienne is starting let alone captaining the side is beyond belief. Such a woeful performance, is definitely not a CM.

jaykay74

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Fair bit of anti-Englishness in this thread.

Any examples ?

Oat23

jaykay74 wrote: »

Any examples ?

They were poor and outplayed most of the game.

People speak the truth.

English person thinks we are haters.

OPENROAD

Oatesy23 wrote: »

They were poor and outplayed most of the game.

People speak the truth.

English person thinks we are haters.

But I suppose the result is the main thing, so good result for England

mike65

England need to get Rodolfo Borrell to coach the U21 side. But they won't get him

LuckyGent88

cant believe England got a draw out of that. Delighted that Welbeck got the goal but he was lucky to be on the pitch.

Sgt Pepper 64

Oatesy23 wrote: »

They were poor and outplayed most of the game.

People speak the truth.

English person thinks we are haters.

It was like watching Barca against Man U - the gulf was that wide

Usual england set up - athlete energy and pace against possesion football

Perhaps I am unkind, spain were more like arsenal, not enough clear cut chances but most of the possession

jaykay74

Oatesy23 wrote: »

They were poor and outplayed most of the game.

People speak the truth.

English person thinks we are haters.

Since the thread is short enough I just reread over it now. Complaint is bollocks. Anti Englishness for me would have been something like "glad to see those english fckers lose". No sign of that sentiment that I can see. Just people calling it as it is re the football being played, not the nationality. England were poor, they got a draw, fair play to them for keeping going, god nows Ireland do the same often enough.

parker kent

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Fair bit of anti-Englishness in this thread.

For all their possession (and they were very good in that regard) Spain failed to create chances to finish England off. This wasn't helped by the fact that Pearce decided to match 2 less technical english centre mids against 3 very technical spaniards in the middle of the park. Henderson is awful though, Rodwell looked far better and Wilshere really should be there (spain have world cup winners there, we lack that experience) to add not only confidence but clear technical ability.

We deserved the goal, we have good options for the future up top who work hard and can certainly finish and we have the new Cafu at right back :pac:

I haven't seen any anti-Englishness, just people like myself pointing out Spain totally bossed the game. There is a massive gulf in class.

As for Wilshire missing, ditto Busquets in the Spanish midfield.

LondonIrish90

Oatesy23 wrote: »

They were poor and outplayed most of the game.

People speak the truth.

English person thinks we are haters.

Of course you are all England haters. Not that I'm not expecting it, but to deny that and say that you would ever support England against anyone would be very wrong wouldnt it? You say people speaking the truth, I suggest not. Bias on both sides perhaps.

Still - without Ireland at tournaments, you need someone to support! And England's opponent is as good as anyone I suppose :pac:

bookie basher

england looked good at the back and ok up front but man have they huge limitations in midfield, no cleverness at all in midfield, there was a passage of play in the game where fielding passed the ball to mancienne, he passed it straight back to fielding, then fielding passed the ball to the left back and he passed it back from where it came from and fielding was like aah f*** it and he just hoofed it!!!

jaykay74

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Of course you are all England haters.

Do you know me

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder there boss

Still no examples of anti englishness.....

Sgt Pepper 64

bookie basher wrote: »

england looked good at the back and ok up front but man have they huge limitations in midfield, no cleverness at all in midfield, there was a passage of play in the game where fielding passed the ball to mancienne, he passed it straight back to fielding, then fielding passed the ball to the left back and he passed it back from where it came from and fielding was like aah f*** it and he just hoofed it!!!

Mancienne isnt EPL grade, hence on his way to Hamburg

Oat23

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Of course you are all England haters. Not that I'm not expecting it, but to deny that and say that you would ever support England against anyone would be very wrong wouldnt it? You say people speaking the truth, I suggest not. Bias on both sides perhaps.

Still - without Ireland at tournaments, you need someone to support! And England's opponent is as good as anyone I suppose :pac:

I really couldn't care about England. I know very little about any of their players and I have no reason to hate them. Anyone can tell Spain U-21s were a lot better than this England side. There's no bias or hatred in pointing out FACTS.

I don't support anyone in this tournament. The only reason I was watching was to see Mancienne play. Calling everyone who says something negative about the English side a hater is very childish.

OPENROAD

jaykay74 wrote: »

Since the thread is short enough I just reread over it now. Complaint is bollocks. Anti Englishness for me would have been something like "glad to see those english fckers lose". No sign of that sentiment that I can see. Just people calling it as it is re the football being played, not the nationality. England were poor, they got a draw, fair play to them for keeping going, god nows Ireland do the same often enough.

They certainly do,as you say the result is the important thing

mike65

LondonIrish90 stop being a silly billy.

LondonIrish90

jaykay74 wrote: »

Do you know me

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder there boss

I probably do, boss. I have a chip on my shoulder about many things in everyday life so football will be nothing different.

I refuse to believe anybody here would be happy to see England win at anything. Not disappointed or surprised of course, but still that is my belief.

parker kent

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Of course you are all England haters. Not that I'm not expecting it, but to deny that and say that you would ever support England against anyone would be very wrong wouldnt it? You say people speaking the truth, I suggest not. Bias on both sides perhaps.

Still - without Ireland at tournaments, you need someone to support! And England's opponent is as good as anyone I suppose :pac:

Show me where people are "hating". Even the BBC say England were outclassed.

parker kent

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

I refuse to believe anybody here would be happy to see England win at anything. Not disappointed or surprised of course, but still that is my belief.

Two things:

So you refuse to believe it? Which means arguing otherwise is pointless, given you will still say we are lying.

What does wanting or not wanting England to win have to do with calling the match as we see it? Ireland have had plenty of matches were we've been outclassed and I've said so despite wanting them to win.

martineatworld

parker kent wrote: »

Show me where people are "hating". Even the BBC say England were outclassed.

That's only cos the BBC are obviously anti-English! :pac:

jaykay74

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

I probably do, boss. I have a chip on my shoulder about many things in everyday life so football will be nothing different.

I refuse to believe anybody here would be happy to see England win at anything. Not disappointed or surprised of course, but still that is my belief.

Just to explain my viewpoint watching the game. I don't really care about International football. I am watching it from a Man Utd point of view. I want to see Smalling, Welbeck, Jones, Cleverly and De Gea do well. It would cheer me up as well to see the likes of Henderson do poorly purely for prem league reasons.

I hope my indifference to England doesn't come as a shock to you. I'd guess a lot of those watching from here would have a similar English league side point of view.

I wouldn't be happy or disappointed to see England win. I don't really care.

parker kent

When Ireland, Bray or United aren't involved I tend to want the team playing "better" football to win. Spain played great stuff and I like seeing passing, inventive football rewarded.

MisterAnarchy

parker kent wrote: »

When Ireland, Bray or United aren't involved I tend to want the team playing "better" football to win. Spain played great stuff and I like seeing passing, inventive football rewarded.

Spain are only a tippy tappy team.
That sort of football isnt appreciated in the British Isles as Graeme Souness repeatedly states.
The public here demand action,end to end action ,high tempo 100 miles an hour,pace ,strength,hard tackling, gurr.
There must be an incident every 20 seconds so as the spectators will be kept on the edge of their seat.
Thats real football.;)

OPENROAD

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Spain are only a tippy tappy team.
That sort of football isnt appreciated in the British Isles as Graeme Souness repeatedly states.
The public here demand action,end to end action ,high tempo 100 miles an hour hoofball.
There must be an incident every 20 seconds so as the spectators will be kept on the edge of their seat.

Would you put yourself in this bracket?

Sgt Pepper 64

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Spain are only a tippy tappy team.
That sort of football isnt appreciated in the British Isles as Graeme Souness repeatedly states.
The public here demand action,end to end action ,high tempo 100 miles an hour,pace ,strength,hard tackling, gurr.
There must be an incident every 20 seconds so as the spectators will be kept on the edge of their seat.
Thats real football.;)

Thats exactly it. And thats why England senior and junior teams will never win a major tournament again until they change

3hn2givr7mx1sc

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Of course you are all England haters. Not that I'm not expecting it, but to deny that and say that you would ever support England against anyone would be very wrong wouldnt it? You say people speaking the truth, I suggest not. Bias on both sides perhaps.

Still - without Ireland at tournaments, you need someone to support! And England's opponent is as good as anyone I suppose :pac:

I couldn't give two fcuks if England were to win, draw or lose anything. I laugh at your opinion that we all give a shít.

Liam O

Ah now, the fact Spain have their best U21 team out there and England were missing 3 of their guaranteed starters was a bit significant. Plop Wilshere, Carroll and Gibbs in there and start Rodwell and I believe that the teams would be very close. I'm not in any way an England sympathiser but the fact is that isn't close to the best team they could have put out and it's very close to the best Spain could put out. Spain were very good at passing but had no killer instinct and this is something even Barca have struggled with in the past and had to adapt to incorporate. I'd take England's defense and forwards over Spain's anyday tbh...

OPENROAD

baz2009 wrote: »

I couldn't give two fcuks if England were to win, draw or lose anything. I laugh at your opinion that we all give a shít.

In fairness, a lot of people do care, just look at world cup threads

Paully D

jaykay74 wrote: »

Henderson must be better than he has shown tonight. Surely

Yep, he is. I wouldn't read too much into his performance tonight.

England's U21's would have struggled to see much of the ball against an U16 Spanish side tonight as they're technically miles ahead of England.

The whole England team just chased shadows for the 90 minutes and Henderson wasn't the only one not to have played as well as he can.

K-9

Liam O wrote: »

Ah now, the fact Spain have their best U21 team out there and England were missing 3 of their guaranteed starters was a bit significant. Plop Wilshere, Carroll and Gibbs in there and start Rodwell and I believe that the teams would be very close. I'm not in any way an England sympathiser but the fact is that isn't close to the best team they could have put out and it's very close to the best Spain could put out. Spain were very good at passing but had no killer instinct and this is something even Barca have struggled with in the past and had to adapt to incorporate. I'd take England's defense and forwards over Spain's anyday tbh...

Carroll wah?

He'd be playing the Cascarino role.

Le King

Paully D wrote: »

Yep, he is. I wouldn't read too much into his performance tonight.

England's U21's would have struggled to see much of the ball against an U16 Spanish side tonight as they're technically miles ahead of England.

The whole England team just chased shadows for the 90 minutes and Henderson wasn't the only one not to have played as well as he can.

Just shows the difference in talent pools or perhaps more the way the game is taught in Spain.

Kess73

Le King wrote: »

Just shows the difference in talent pools or perhaps more the way the game is taught in Spain.

More the latter methinks.

rossie1977

Paully D wrote: »

Yep, he is. I wouldn't read too much into his performance tonight.

when do you read into performances then, according to you last week this kid is worth £25m and its clearly obvious he isn't at the same level of the spanish midfield lads at all, ffs he didn't look the same level, workrate, desire etc as jay spearing couple weeks ago

parker kent

Paully D wrote: »

Yep, he is. I wouldn't read too much into his performance tonight.

England's U21's would have struggled to see much of the ball against an U16 Spanish side tonight as they're technically miles ahead of England.

The whole England team just chased shadows for the 90 minutes and Henderson wasn't the only one not to have played as well as he can.

Henderson will always struggle against teams with that sort of technical ability. It wasn't just that he had a bad game.

everdead.ie

Have to say I think Ramsey would probably be the best technical player to come out of Britain in a while I think don't think wilshire is as good technically but in the English game makes up for it by the desire he shows and that he's not afraid to get "stuck in" I don't think that their is any midfielder from England youths that are technically better than any of the Spanish youths and only Arsenal are trying to train youths in the technical side. This probably explains why a lot of the youth academy products come from abroad their feeder schools aren't training the kids in a technical manner.

Dolph Starbeam

Liam O wrote: »

Ah now, the fact Spain have their best U21 team out there and England were missing 3 of their guaranteed starters was a bit significant. Plop Wilshere, Carroll and Gibbs in there and start Rodwell and I believe that the teams would be very close. I'm not in any way an England sympathiser but the fact is that isn't close to the best team they could have put out and it's very close to the best Spain could put out. Spain were very good at passing but had no killer instinct and this is something even Barca have struggled with in the past and had to adapt to incorporate. I'd take England's defense and forwards over Spain's anyday tbh...

Spain are also missing Sergio Busquets, even though I would still prefer Javi Martinez playing Busquets is still a massively talented player to be allowed to stay at home. I do think Carroll and Wilshere are massive losses to England, mainly Wilshere but even if he was there today he would have been able to do very little to stop Spain playing.

WIth Spain today I thought Adrian was very poor, he never got into the game, I'd have started Bojan, Mata drifted in and out of the game too much, I'd like to see Muniain get on in one of the next games, far more direct and will offer something different. Didac was very poor too, he seemed the only player on the team who wasn't trying to pass the ball, played way too many long balls to nobody. Thiago Disappointed I thought, he seemed to try the impossible passes way too often. Man of the match had to of been Javi Martinez, he is a class act, Ander also impressed me a lot.

SharpshooterTom

LondonIrish90 wrote: »

Fair bit of anti-Englishness in this thread.

There's plenty of anti-Englishness in threads such as redandwhitekop - where effectively everyone was cheering on spain ("Scouse not English") and to lesser extent on redcafe right now, if you dare to look.

Football purists just don't like teams like England, I'm not one of them mind but just saying.

Gonzovision

Great strike by Jorgensen

Paully D

parker kent wrote: »

Henderson will always struggle against teams with that sort of technical ability. It wasn't just that he had a bad game.

So do Gerrard, Lampard etc.

Paully D

rossie1977 wrote: »

when do you read into performances then, according to you last week this kid is worth £25m and its clearly obvious he isn't at the same level of the spanish midfield lads at all, ffs he didn't look the same level, workrate, desire etc as jay spearing couple weeks ago

I read into his performances over two Premier League seasons rather than a once off group game against the most technically gifted side in the world of underage football, and in all honesty the U21's are probably only second to their senior side in that regard.

If all Liverpool fans have this same outlook then the kid hasn't got a ****ing chance. Thankfully, I'm sure the majority of Liverpool fans will be able to judge on the basis of more than one performance against Spain.

I'm not sure why you're questioning his work rate? Statistically he's usually always in the top 3 (often being number 1) for distance covered in games he plays. As for comparing him to Spearing, again I'm not sure why? Spearing hasn't played at all at international level, not even U21, and played his last game against Aston Villa (IIRC) over three weeks ago. There's a difference between coming up against Reo-Coker and Delph compared to world cup winner Javi Martinez and Thiago Alcantara.

If you rate Jay Spearing higher then by all means do. But I think it's pretty obvious from the signing of Henderson to go along with Gerrard, Lucas and Meireles that the people who's opinions actually matter in all this (ie Dalglish's and the Liverpool hierarchy) don't believe that Spearing is as good. I agree with them.

Your opinion is exactly what's wrong with the game in the UK/Ireland. Yes, he had a poor game, but just because he didn't run around like a headless chicken, didn't fly into needless challenges, and tried to be inventive with the passes he did receive, that means he's not as good as Jay ****ing Spearing?

People over here and in the UK hammer players who'll show something else other than getting the ball and lumping it down field whilst chasing after it pumping their fists in the air like they're in Braveheart. Sadly the same thing is echoed by youth coaches everywhere in the British Isles - we really do get what we deserve!

Some are a little harsh on henderson sure look at the world cup the top talents of lampared and gerrard were overrun by the likes of Germany and same in recent friendlies against france and even ghana. Henderson is a good player but as a Sunderland fan dont think he currently good enough to command in a midfield two. Would have him out on the right until he develops a bit more. Good crosser of the ball and clever player but goes not good enough yet to take game to oppo in the middle.

parker kent

Paully D wrote: »

So do Gerrard, Lampard etc.

I didn't say Gerrard or Lampard would be any different.

Dolph Starbeam

Spain 1-0 up on the Czech Republic at half time. Spain are looking good again, hopefully they will grab a second goal in the 2nd half and not make the same mistake as the last day.

shano_88

Mark! wrote: »

Spain 1-0 up on the Czech Republic at half time. Spain are looking good again, hopefully they will grab a second goal in the 2nd half and not make the same mistake as the last day.

2-0. Great finish and great ball from Mata.

Nuri Sahin

Mata running the show.

Can't believe Adrian scored, let alone scored 2 goals! :pac:

lordgoat

Joke of an english team tonight.

Moving Henderson arguably one of their best players to the right to accommodate Mancienne centrally rather than dropping him and starting Rodwell and Henderson in the middle and keeping Cleverly on the wing.