Whats the next curve ball?

Mellor

My point he hasn't studied judo at any sort of high level, which is what was the topic, as Cowser said, it take too long to learn and time is better spent learning wrestling or something. Jon jones basically proves that point, he only needed to a bit of youtube to be one of the best at throws. No need to waste years learning it.

SDTimeout

I remember Jones saying the sub he tapped Bader with he had never drilled, only watched GSP do in training one day!

arybvtcw0eolkf

Mellor wrote: »

My point he hasn't studied judo at any sort of high level, which is what was the topic, as Cowser said, it take too long to learn and time is better spent learning wrestling or something. Jon jones basically proves that point, he only needed to a bit of youtube to be one of the best at throws. No need to waste years learning it.

Personally I think to try to study Judo to a high level for the soul purpose of bringing it to the cage would be folly.

Judo, in my very humble opinion, is just too complicated.

As an example in a Judo class I can set up my throws (Osoto Gari, Uchi Mata, Harai Goshi) with foot techniques (Ashiwaza) and grip fighting.. When I try to apply my judo without the Gi 90 percent of my Judo is redundant - and tbh I struggle.

riffmongous

Ximena Huge Thermostat wrote: »

Personally I think to try to study Judo to a high level for the soul purpose of bringing it to the cage would be folly.

Judo, in my very humble opinion, is just too complicated.

As an example in a Judo class I can set up my throws (Osoto Gari, Uchi Mata, Harai Goshi) with foot techniques (Ashiwaza) and grip fighting.. When I try to apply my judo without the Gi 90 percent of my Judo is redundant - and tbh I struggle.

Do you think it would be easier though if you spent dedicated time practicing those throws without the gi, say going 50/50 on training?
Has anyone here actually looked at Karo's book by any chance? He talks about how to convert the regular judo grips into wrestling grips to allow you to perform versions of most judo throws. So say for Osoto gari, you normally use a sleeve and lapel grip (I think, its been a long time for me), and he shows how to do it instead using a regular wrist and collar tie.

arybvtcw0eolkf

riffmongous wrote: »

Do you think it would be easier though if you spent dedicated time practicing those throws without the gi, say going 50/50 on training?
Has anyone here actually looked at Karo's book by any chance? He talks about how to convert the regular judo grips into wrestling grips to allow you to perform versions of most judo throws. So say for Osoto gari, you normally use a sleeve and lapel grip (I think, its been a long time for me), and he shows how to do it instead using a regular wrist and collar tie.

I haven't, tbh at the moment I'm guilty of being a 'jack of all trades and master of none' when I should really be concentrating on Judo in preparation for a points off my dan grade.

Barry.Oglesby

I think people picked me up wrong and went on the Judo-defensive!

Prominent Judo players might well come into the game and do well, it would make life interesting that's for sure, but I genuinely think we're approaching endgame for any new "styles".

Wrestling/grappling/judo... when you do enough of it it all starts to look the same. I'd go so far as to say the difference in "styles" is as much to do with culture as what art people are studying. The same way certain gyms have certain styles within systems and an experienced eye can tell what club or gym someone comes from.

It's all becoming one. Whether or not that's a good thing depends entirely on your point of view.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

Wrestling/grappling/judo... when you do enough of it it all starts to look the same.

As I said earlier, Judo without the gi and a rule set is wrestling.

Throw someone to the ground from the clinch and most commentators will refer to it as a ''Judo flip'', although I've never heard of such a thing the end result is (hopefully) the opponent on their back and the attacker in a dominant position.

I'd love to work with Luke Corcoran on No-Gi take downs for awhile to improve that aspect of my wrestling/grappling.

In the mean time Paul Cowzer has brought my newaza (ground game) to a new level recently.

Esp. attacking from my back, where before I was content to lay there and hopefully work a choke, now I'm looking at attacks on the arms as well as escapes/sweeps.

Damn, was forgetting this was the MMA forum and getting myself wrapped up in wrestling/grappling.... Good thread OP.

riffmongous

Barry.Oglesby wrote: »

I think people picked me up wrong and went on the Judo-defensive!

Prominent Judo players might well come into the game and do well, it would make life interesting that's for sure, but I genuinely think we're approaching endgame for any new "styles".

Wrestling/grappling/judo... when you do enough of it it all starts to look the same. I'd go so far as to say the difference in "styles" is as much to do with culture as what art people are studying. The same way certain gyms have certain styles within systems and an experienced eye can tell what club or gym someone comes from.

It's all becoming one. Whether or not that's a good thing depends entirely on your point of view.

I'd pretty much agree with you about everything becoming one, and basically everything that doesn't work being stripped away to a point where you can't really compare it to its original 'style'.

But I would just wonder if certain disciplines have given all they have to give yet, especially judo, since as far as I am aware there is not a huge number of experienced, high level, no-gi coaches. I fully agree on the no-gi=wrestling thing, (I'd see it as close to catch wrestling) here I mean coaches who were originally high level judo then moved to no-gi, like if Parisyan started coaching.
I'd just wonder if you had more people being trained in no-gi, by coaches experienced at using that style, would more of its moves be adapted and used succesfully. Or would it quickly just be seen to be that the coaches were specially talented athletes.

mr1percent

fightireland wrote: »

The best answer I have heard on this comes from Dana to be honest; when he (roughly) said "the paradigm is shifting now the super athletes that would have gone on to play basketball or football (NFL) are taking up MMA as their chosen sport"

A very intuitive statement in my opinion....

I am sure this has nothing to do with Dana wanting bigger/non combat related advertising revenue.
I think the biggest shift in "techniques" will be the heavy hitters of global advertising coming on board like Pepsi/Coke and Pat The Baker