The Joe Rogan Experience Podcasts

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839024#Comment_117839024

Eh, there's plenty of drugs that we know are effective against COVID-19 and Rogan is on at least two of them.... However it's far more preferable to simply not get covid. Eg I have a relative who's 65 and almost died from COVID-19, he's gonna potentially need oxygen on and off until he dies. So yep a cocktail of drugs worked but he's far from lucky. Meanwhile ivermectin is not remotely proven and it's akin to hydroxochloroquine... You'll claim a big pharma cover-up but really that amounts to unfounded conspiracy theories.

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839231#Comment_117839231

I haven't claimed any big pharma cover up, but you keep repeating it ;-)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839212#Comment_117839212

you do know that the clinical trials for Ivermectin are mostly (if not all) been run by public health bodies and not drug companies and they are conducted over thousands of people

who follows doctors? on twitter? - they are selling nothing at all or not trying to be famous - they have nothing to gain at all / no agenda?

Retr0gamer

Retr0gamer's science education corner:

medical doctors aren't trained to assess data from large scale trials. We have scientists (some with doctorates in the actual field) that are trained and work in that field to find correlation and causation. A single doctor giving his opinion might be a little more informed than the usual internet dum dums but it's still anecodotal and holds as much weight as your granny telling you the health benefits of flat 7up because it cured anyone she gave it to of their cough.

Snake Plisken

Fair play to Joe, love to see the usual lefties and MSM jealous loons spaz out over it 🤣

humberklog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838429#Comment_117838429

Maybe!

Well I've just been out for pints with 3 of them and all 3 are still jacked tired after doing a day's work and all 3 of us are still complaining of intense pins and needles on our hands first thing in the morning. 3 pfiezer recipients.

On the Ivermectin thingy and it being called an animal de-wormer, Ketamine was for years called a horse tranq and yet it's used on humans for medical reasons and for recreation for which I can personally say it is a really lovely drug and yet I never ended up taking sh1t in the middle of the road.

Anyway, isn't this going all a bit off track for the Thread?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839271#Comment_117839271

You implied the research isn't accurate because big pharma..

dePeatrick

Joe is a very lucky Jackass… ‘He was also working on a book around this time that he tentatively titled Irresponsible Advice from a Man with No Credibility, based on his blog entries on his website.’ Says it all really, I like him, but do not take anything he says seriously…as he does not either.

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839697#Comment_117839697

you are projecting

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839279#Comment_117839279

if so many health bodies are running trials for Ivermectin, it can't be that bad can it?

I hear Oxford is running trials too for ivermetin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117841162#Comment_117841162

The point is if it works to prevent or treat covid and the trials so far say it doesn't

It is a focus point for people particularly in the us who believe in the ivermectin "cure" and a good number of these same people are the ones not getting a vaccine

So Rogan effectively promoting ivermectin is at best a stupid move, if not very irresponsible as it feeds the narrative

Almost all the people dying of covid in the us now are unvaccinated people

Tork

Rogan was treated with a cocktail of drugs. Why the focus on Ivermectin?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117842891#Comment_117842891

because

1. it's the gullible / conspiracy theory drug du choix, particularly of the unvaccinated in the US. The two are linked. Rogan has 13 million instagram followers and there is for sure a crossover, extent unquantified
2. all the studies so far say it doesn't have any effect to prevent or treat Covid
3. pretty much all the people dying of Covid in the US are unvaccinated people
4. so yes by him saying "I took all this stuff, including Ivermectin and I feel great now" - promoting it, some more people in the US at least will die because they will stay unvaccinated and die of Covid, possibly while swallowing Ivermectin either in human tablet form or maybe horse wormer

so he's a gobshite for promoting it

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843098#Comment_117843098

so much BS in your post.

there are ongoing studies on Ivermectin, you don't know "all the studies" and certainly you dont have the data to make your assessments.

Then again, your comment on Joe Rogan speaks volume about the objectivity of your assertions

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843136#Comment_117843136

all the studies so far reported no help in preventing or treating Covid

I said "so far" - did you not read that?

so that's correct, not bs

there are ongoing studies yes but there's no evidence yet of any help

I was hopeful for Ivermectin but it's looking like Hydroxy 2 at this point more than something useful

if 14 trials SO FAR have shown no evidence it's just not likely that the other trials will. even if they ran another 1,000 trials

that's just very simple basic logic.

Article from Sept 2 2021 - New York Times

A recent review of 14 ivermectin studies, with more than 1,600 participants, concluded that none provided evidence of the drug’s ability to prevent Covid, improve patient conditions or reduce mortality. Another 31 studies are still underway to test the drug.

“There is great interest in repurposing well-known inexpensive drugs such as ivermectin that are readily available as an oral tablet,” Maria Popp and Stephanie Weibel, the authors of the review, said in an email to The Times. “Even if these circumstances seem ideal, the results from the available clinical studies carried out so far cannot confirm the widely advertised benefits.”

One of the largest trials studying ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment, called the Together Trial, was halted by the data safety monitoring board on Aug. 6 because the drug had been shown to be no better than a placebo at preventing hospitalization or prolonged stay in the emergency room. Dr. Edward Mills, a professor at McMaster University who led the study, which enrolled more than 1,300 patients, said the team would have discontinued it earlier were it not for the level of public interest in ivermectin.

Tork

If Ivermectin is such a great drug, why was he also treated with monoclonal antibodies (also given to Trump), steroids, antibiotics and two drips?

Bobeagleburger

Joe loves a bit of pseudo science. When it comes to health advice he's a complete spoofer. Stick to what you know best.

Merck, which manufactures the drug, says there is currently “no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against covid-19”.

On the other hand there is plenty of evidence it is dangerous when misused. The Food and Drug Administration (FDA), America’s regulatory agency for drugs, warns that overdosing can cause vomiting, nausea, seizures and even death. Poison control lines, set up to dispense information and handle emergencies, are swamped with calls—the American Association of Poison Control Centers received 459 in August, almost eight times as many calls about ivermectin as in the same month in 2020. In Mississippi at least 70% were about people who took the veterinary formulation, which is far more potent than the human version. Several people have been hospitalised.

Why do so many people buy into these unproven cures? Partisanship plays a big role. According to a poll that YouGov conducted on behalf of The Economist, opposition to covid-19 vaccinations is more pronounced on the right. Republicans account for 56% of respondents who say they will not get vaccinated; 25% are independents and 13% are Democrats (the remainder are “not sure” of their identity). The ideological breakdown is similar: 53% of holdouts describe themselves as conservative, and just 7% are liberal. These differences outweigh any other demographic factors. The poll also finds that 26% of Republicans (roughly the same proportion as independents) and 33% of conservatives believe that ivermectin is a “possibly” or “very” effective treatment.

Snake Plisken

https://www.instagram.com/p/CTXnpK7FrKv/?utm_medium=copy_link

Well it worked 😃Glad he has the all clear 👍

humberklog

That's impressive. It'll be interesting hear of his experience so hopefully he gets a good guest on to share it with.

Tork

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843639#Comment_117843639

In his own words he took : "Monoclonal antibodies, ivermectin, Z-pak (zithromax), prednisone, everything, a NAD drip and a vitamin drip (and I did that three days in a row)". He had access to a lot of heavy hitting, expensive medicine his fans won't have, and was able to rest up. He's a hypocrite if he doesn't admit he is in a far more privileged position than many Americans.

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843427#Comment_117843427

what's the point of bringing politic into this discussion, when the only thing that it proofs is your personal bias

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843677#Comment_117843677

Great stuff, I'm sure his obsession for health played a major role too

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843158#Comment_117843158

There is evidence that ivermectin works - https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/SUMMARY-OF-THE-EVIDENCE-BASE-FINAL.pdf

Here is a recent Wall Street Journal stating that ivermectin works - Why Is the FDA Attacking a Safe, Effective Drug?

Mic 1972

is

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117843735#Comment_117843735

does he have to admin the obvious? we know he is a milionaire

it would be interesting to know if such treatments are available here in ireland, for those who are willing to pay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117846572#Comment_117846572

I can't read the WSJ article but there was a retraction of the big study that was being pointed to as the main "proof" for reasons of the data not being sound

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-reports/exclusives/93658

"Based on what Jack found, we have reason to believe the preprint's conclusions are compromised, so the withdrawal was done to stop its propagation as sound science," she said. "This is the strategy employed by a number of preprint servers, per best practice guidance."

The study was one of the largest ivermectin trials in the world, and has been included in two recent meta-analyses (Bryant et al. and Hill et al.) that received much attention for their positive results -- particularly the Hill review, which had been anticipated by a U.S. group that has long promoted ivermectin.

Some have questioned whether the positive conclusions of those meta-analyses would still stand when the Egyptian study is removed.

Look I'm not against this thing working but there were 2 small trials but they were since discredited as not being run according to the double-blind s

the 14 trials since have found no evidence in it's favour.

it just doesn't look like it's going to come out on the side of being useful

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847530#Comment_117847530

The two links I provided account for the Egyptian study being discredited. A few days after writing their article the authors of the WSJ article acknowledged that the Egyptian study is not good and still stated they stood by what they wrote. Sorry you can not read the WSJ article, must be the paywall. I have uploaded a pdf version that might work below.

Why Is the FDA Attacking a Safe, Effective Drug? - WSJ.pdf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847541#Comment_117847541

*Demand Surges for Deworming Drug for Covid, Despite Scant Evidence It Works

Prescriptions for ivermectin have jumped to more than 88,000 per week, some pharmacists are reporting shortages and people are overdosing on forms of the drug meant for horses.*

New York Times

By Emma Goldberg

Published Aug. 30, 2021

Updated Sept. 2, 2021, 9:16 a.m. ET

For the past week, Dr. Gregory Yu, an emergency physician in San Antonio, has received the same daily requests from his patients, some vaccinated for Covid-19 and others unvaccinated: They ask him for ivermectin, a drug typically used to treat parasitic worms that has repeatedly failed in clinical trials to help people infected with the coronavirus.

Dr. Yu has refused the ivermectin requests, he said, but he knows some of his colleagues have not. Prescriptions for ivermectin have seen a sharp rise in recent weeks, jumping to more than 88,000 per week in mid-August from a prepandemic baseline average of 3,600 per week, according to researchers from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Some pharmacists are even reporting shortages of the drug. Travis Walthall, a pharmacist in Kuna, Idaho, a town of about 20,000 people, said that this summer alone he had filled more than 20 ivermectin prescriptions, up from two or three in a typical year. For the past week he has not been able to obtain the drug from his suppliers; they were all out.

Mr. Walthall was astonished, he said, at how many people were willing to take an unapproved drug for Covid. “I’m like, gosh, this is horrible,” he said.

While sometimes given to humans in small doses for head lice, scabies and other parasites, ivermectin is more commonly used in animals. Physicians are raising alarms about a growing number of people getting the drug from livestock supply centers, where it can come in highly concentrated paste or liquid forms.

Calls to poison control centers about ivermectin exposures have risen dramatically, jumping fivefold over their baseline in July, according to C.D.C. researchers, who cited data from the American Association of Poison Control Centers. Mississippi’s health department said earlier this month that 70 percent of recent calls to the state poison control center had come from people who ingested ivermectin from livestock supply stores.

Dr. Shawn Varney, a toxicologist and medical director for the South Texas Poison Center, said that in 2019 his center received 191 calls about exposure to ivermectin; so far this year the center has received 260 calls and is on pace to reach 390 by the end of the year. The vast majority of the recent calls came from people who took a veterinary product in an attempt to treat or prevent Covid-19.

“Everyone wants some cure for Covid because it’s such a devastating illness,” Dr. Varney said. “I plead with people to stop using ivermectin and get the vaccine because it’s the best protection we have at this point. Everything else is risk after risk.”

Dr. Varney said people calling the poison control center after taking ivermectin sometimes reported nausea, muscle pain and diarrhea. He noted that there have been ivermectin overdose deaths in the past, though he did not know of any specifically associated with Covid-19.

The biggest risk, he added, comes from people taking the livestock product and ingesting a far higher dose than is appropriate for humans — sometimes 10 to 15 times the amount that a capsule approved for humans might contain.

“People are going to animal feed stores and getting a formulation that’s highly concentrated because it’s for 1,000-pound animals,” Dr. Varney said. “They’re opening themselves to great potential harm.”

Ivermectin was introduced as a veterinary drug in the late 1970s, and the discovery of its effectiveness in combating certain parasitic diseases in humans won the 2015 Nobel Prize for medicine.

Though it has not been shown to be effective in treating Covid, people are now clamoring to get the drug, trading tips in Facebook groups and on Reddit. Some physicians have compared the phenomenon to last year’s surge of interest in hydroxychloroquine, though there are more clinical trials evaluating ivermectin.

The Food and Drug Administration weighed in last week. “You are not a horse,” the agency tweeted, with a warning explaining that ivermectin is not F.D.A.-approved for treating or preventing Covid-19 and that taking large doses can cause serious harm.

A recent review of 14 ivermectin studies, with more than 1,600 participants, concluded that none provided evidence of the drug’s ability to prevent Covid, improve patient conditions or reduce mortality. Another 31 studies are still underway to test the drug.

“There is great interest in repurposing well-known inexpensive drugs such as ivermectin that are readily available as an oral tablet,” Maria Popp and Stephanie Weibel, the authors of the review, said in an email to The Times. “Even if these circumstances seem ideal, the results from the available clinical studies carried out so far cannot confirm the widely advertised benefits.”

One of the largest trials studying ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment, called the Together Trial, was halted by the data safety monitoring board on Aug. 6 because the drug had been shown to be no better than a placebo at preventing hospitalization or prolonged stay in the emergency room. Dr. Edward Mills, a professor at McMaster University who led the study, which enrolled more than 1,300 patients, said the team would have discontinued it earlier were it not for the level of public interest in ivermectin.

“The data safety person said, ‘This is now futile and you’re offering no benefit to patients involved in the trial,’” Dr. Mills said.

Another study of the drug found that ivermectin could be fairly benign unless taken at high doses. Dr. Eduardo López-Medina, a researcher at the Center for Pediatric Infectious Diseases in Colombia, led a randomized control trial for the study last spring on the effects of ivermectin and found that it had no statistically significant effect on reducing the duration of Covid symptoms. But he also found that there was no statistically significant increase in adverse events for the patients receiving ivermectin, though they were taking a fairly high dose of 300 micrograms per kilogram.

“It appears to be a safe medication, but that is not enough to prescribe it openly,” Dr. López-Medina said. “People should use it in trials but not necessarily to treat patients. The data is not robust enough to support its use.”

Researchers and physicians are particularly alarmed by people seeking out ivermectin as a form of possible prevention or treatment instead of getting one of the highly effective Covid vaccines. The F.D.A. fully approved the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid vaccine for people 16 and older last week, and an approval of Moderna’s vaccine is expected in the coming weeks.

“The only functional strategy we have for getting control of Covid-19 is vaccination,” said Dr. Irwin Redlener, a physician in New York and founding director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness at Columbia University. “If people are not getting vaccinated because of nonsense they’re reading on the internet, that interferes with our ability to get this pandemic under control.”

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847541#Comment_117847541

Sept 2 article from NY times quoted there

relevant part in quote block

A recent review of 14 ivermectin studies, with more than 1,600 participants, concluded that none provided evidence of the drug’s ability to prevent Covid, improve patient conditions or reduce mortality. Another 31 studies are still underway to test the drug.

“There is great interest in repurposing well-known inexpensive drugs such as ivermectin that are readily available as an oral tablet,” Maria Popp and Stephanie Weibel, the authors of the review, said in an email to The Times. “Even if these circumstances seem ideal, the results from the available clinical studies carried out so far cannot confirm the widely advertised benefits.”

I am open to seeing positive results but the more recent (September 2) articles seem to be saying the evidence is not there

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117847574#Comment_117847574

When I am talking about ivermectin I am talking about the version for humans. The article you quote is very focused on the animal version of ivermectin. Not sure why a human would take the animal version of ivermectin.