Assisted Suicide programme

OldGoat

Did anyone watch the assisted suicide programme lastnight on the BBC? Terry Pratchett hosted the documentry of a man seeking to end his life and the trials and tribulations he had to go through to have his wishes met.
Personally I applaud the work of the Dignatas Clinic in Switzerland.
It's a shame that we, as a nation, have so little respect for indivudals decisions that people are forced to leave the country to volintarly end their lives in a clamrational and dignified manner.
One downside to this is that they have to go earlier then necessary. The consulting doctor said that if the man in the programme had been Swiss she would have delayed the procedure by a few months but as he had to be fit enough to travel from the UK they ended up ending his life a few months too soon.
Very interesting, challanging and emotive programme and worth catching the BBC archieves.
More here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-13758286

Beruthiel

I missed it, must try and find it on the net.

Terry is a brave man and it's one of life's cruel jokes that he has gotten a disease that will eventually make it impossible for him to continue working.

I think we should all have the right to end our lives if the quality of life has been so seriously curtailed that it makes it unbearable to continue.
At least you would then have the choice to leave with your dignity and pride intact.

hardCopy

I found parts of it quite hard to watch.

I wasn't expecting to see someone actually die on camera

.

It was amazing how calm and dignified the two men involved were.

I also think people should be given the option to go before their suffering becomes too much, but like the other guy who worked with Pratchett, I'm uncomfortable with the idea of people going to Dignitas because of a "weariness of life".

I don't know where the line should be drawn or who should draw it.

A very good documentary and certainly made me think.

OldGoat

It was harrowing but very very touching. Brought a tear.

I'd love to see some debate on it. Agreed that (for now) those who are just weary should be excluded but for those whose quality of life can only deteriate and they become a burden on their loved ones I believe the opportunity should be available - utilising all the criteria and consultations as are currently undertaken by the Dignatas clinic. They have an established and tested model that could be copied to an Irish centre of euphensia.

Is there an actual law making assisted suicide illigal in this country or are we just assuming it exists?

looksee

I would genuinely wish that if I were so affected by alzheimers or senility that I had no understanding or quality of life, someone would help me on my way. However since this is too much to ask of someone else it would have to be done while I was still rational and could be responsible for my own actions. A very difficult situation for oneself and one's family.

My own mother is 90, has aphasia (she cannot talk coherently as a result of a stroke, her thinking and understanding is not impaired), heart failure, limited mobility and thyroid problems. She is frail, but still has a good quality of life, lives semi-independently and enjoys being taken out for lunch or to the shops. She is not ready to go yet and is a very positive person.

Everyone is different, and the options should be different depending on circumstances.

hardCopy

OldGoat wrote: »

It was harrowing but very very touching. Brought a tear.

I'd love to see some debate on it. Agreed that (for now) those who are just weary should be excluded but for those whose quality of life can only deteriate and they become a burden on their loved ones I believe the opportunity should be available - utilising all the criteria and consultations as are currently undertaken by the Dignatas clinic. They have an established and tested model that could be copied to an Irish centre of euphensia.

Is there an actual law making assisted suicide illigal in this country or are we just assuming it exists?

Dignitas' model caters to people who have a "weariness of life", unless I misunderstood this part, do they turn these people away?

The other issue they touched on is age, at what age should someone be allowed to make this choice? There are lots of terminally ill children, this doesn't just affect older people.

It is something I'd like to see debated but I suspect it'll be treated like abortion, leave it in legal limbo and let other jurisdictions handle it.

Cicero

Would vote it in tomorrow morning but.....from seen a number of close family die over long periods of time sometimes in pain and great discomfort, I don't think even then I could possibly get myself to assist in the "lawful" ending of their lives...would really have to be an outside agency and even then, the person ill would need to have made that decision themselves...I couldn't possibly make that decision for a loved one...

byhookorbycrook

I have MS. Earlier this year I had a fever and my entire left side wouldn't work, could even sit on the bed to dress myself. (Once I cooled down, it came back.)If I get to the stage where neither side works and I can't mind myself, then I think, yes, I'd like the option.

huntedwolf

A good programme; more informing and humane than the debate that followed.
Why so little respect for the world weary? It's an overload of experience, not a depression. Once I promised someone to assist but I chickened out. It would have been a less lonely and perhaps an easier end had I not. I've regretted it ever since, the least I should have done was to provide company in those last hours and that would have been enough. Assisted suicide gets my vote; and as I discovered gets my elderly mothers' vote too.

Pebbles68

huntedwolf wrote: »

A good programme; more informing and humane than the debate that followed.
Why so little respect for the world weary? It's an overload of experience, not a depression. Once I promised someone to assist but I chickened out. It would have been a less lonely and perhaps an easier end had I not. I've regretted it ever since, the least I should have done was to provide company in those last hours and that would have been enough. Assisted suicide gets my vote; and as I discovered gets my elderly mothers' vote too.

I had my mother visit last week(she watches the soaps) so I watched the Emerdale story. I know it was a soap but it brought up the subject of assisted suidide. Turns out my other half has already been asked to take his mother to Switzerland when the time comes. Her family has a history of alzheimer's and motor neuron disease. She has seen her family die a horrible slow undignified death. I really can't argue with her decision.

magnumlady

I think everyone should have a choice.
I saw my dad go from a strong man to more or less a helpless child. No one should have to suffer the way he did.
They put animals to sleep if their pain is too much but people are left to suffer.

convert

I would really like to have the choice of doing this should something happen me to leave me with a poor quality of life. Having seen three of my grandparents linger for far too long, with literally no quality of life, I really feel that people should have the choice to end their lives. My mum feels the same way, too. I believe that somebody should have the option to end their pain and suffering, rather than be left to linger and waste away.

ElleEm

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

I have MS. Earlier this year I had a fever and my entire left side wouldn't work, could even sit on the bed to dress myself. (Once I cooled down, it came back.)If I get to the stage where neither side works and I can't mind myself, then I think, yes, I'd like the option.

I also have MS, and would appreciate the choice if it came to it. I have not had VERY bad times so far but I'm only a few months in. If this disease progresses to a point where my quality of life is poor, then I will seriously look at options for my future. This is also the first time I've "said" this to anyone. The time will come when I need to discuss it with my partner and family.

JuliusCaesar

OldGoat wrote: »

Is there an actual law making assisted suicide illigal in this country or are we just assuming it exists?

Mm, yeah, there is a law against it - they call it murder. I have to say that I thought the programme was really well done, and I take my hat off to Terry Pratchett. An extremely witty and erudite writer, it's so sad that he has Alzheimers. I had to admire the man who went to Dignitas, and his and his wife's consent to have his suicide broadcast. She is in danger of being charged as accessory to murder, having accompanied her husband to Switzerland.

It's expensive! Ten grand! If only we had the option here, I'd have my will made immediately*. I've worked in hospitals for most of my working life and I know what I'd prefer. My heirs get the house - I'll spend the money well!

Thought it was a bit odd that the Swiss insist the house be in an industrial estate (although Dignitas certainly had it looking good).


* I've already said it to everyone in my family - don't leave me to live through stroke after stroke, doubly incontinent and incapable.

Cicero

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

* I've already said it to everyone in my family - don't leave me to live through stroke after stroke, doubly incontinent and incapable.

OK...let's say for the sake of argument, assisted suicide is all legal and legit- what I struggle with is who presses the button to end your life?
At what point are you "transported" to the next world with advanced Alzheimers?
Who do you delegate the decision making process to?
Will they carry it out when the time comes?

In theory, I think assisted suicide is a very dignified way to die- but I imagine that the practicalities of organising such an event could be traumatic on a family if left with the responsibility and could be quite divisive?

JuliusCaesar

Cicero wrote: »

OK...let's say for the sake of argument, assisted suicide is all legal and legit- what I struggle with is who presses the button to end your life?
At what point are you "transported" to the next world with advanced Alzheimers?
Who do you delegate the decision making process to?
Will they carry it out when the time comes?

1. If I have strokes/alzheimers then the doctors treating me will often have me down as 'not for resusitation' in case of heart attack, or 'not for active treatment' in case of illness eg pneumonia.

2 if I remain compos mentis, then I decide.

3 if I have a creeping onset like early onset alzheimers, then I have to have the courage to decide for myself when I have had enough, or I go to a hospice/hospital ward.

I don't think I'd delegate to a family member as they are too emotionally involved.

Although people complain about doctors 'playing god', it is my experience that these are not decisions that doctors take lightly. As I said, I've spent most of my working life in hospitals and I do think that they, in combination with the other team members, have a lot of wisdom in their decisions in these cases.

Cicero

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

1. If I have strokes/alzheimers then the doctors treating me will often have me down as 'not for resusitation' in case of heart attack, or 'not for active treatment' in case of illness eg pneumonia.

That's pretty normal though right now -if in advanced stages of passing away...I have had those conversations around "not keeping a person going through extraordinary means etc" with doctors in the past...not really assisted suicide though..more dignified death under lawful medical supervision- i.e. avoiding pain for the patient...I assume if you got a heart attack tomorrow in the full of your health, you would hope that someone would try and revive you?

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

if I remain compos mentis, then I decide.

Fine if you decide- but who does what? and when?

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

if I have a creeping onset like early onset alzheimers, then I have to have the courage to decide for myself when I have had enough, or I go to a hospice/hospital ward.

you'll forget tomorrow...:p;)....but seriously, alzheimers can be a very very very slow progressive disease- from a practical perspective, "naming the day" to end it all would be extremely difficult to choose.While you may not be compos mentus, you can be still extremely healthy for a very long time- eating, talking, walking etc

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I don't think I'd delegate to a family member as they are too emotionally involved.

then who?

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

Although people complain about doctors 'playing god', it is my experience that these are not decisions that doctors take lightly. As I said, I've spent most of my working life in hospitals and I do think that they, in combination with the other team members, have a lot of wisdom in their decisions in these cases.

I agree...as above comment...