Buying and choosing my first guns

Tea drinker

HI folks,
I will likely be returning to Eire this July / August, and want to start my gun collection ASAP after coming home.

I was a regular in Hilltop shooting club for a few years before leaving Ireland 2 years ago, I enjoyed the pistol and benchrest shooting a lot.
I mostly used the hammerli .22 for Pistol partly because it was cheap and mostly so could physically spend longer shooting due to less stress from the recoil.
For the rifle I enjoyed the Anshutz but felt they were a bit too single purpose for me.

I rarely used the shotgun but would like to get into this a bit more.

Unfortunately I never applied for a pistol licence as I was in rented accomadation an just didn't want the hassle of explaining to the landlord about alarms and safes etc.. So am now pigeon holed into the .22 only - not a *huge* deal but C'est la vie.

So learning from my past mistake I want to get a collection started asap. I am interested to get a .22 pistol, I like the reports about buckmark - but never used one and am largely happy with the Hammerli. What do you guys say?

For the rifle, .22lr is potentially handy if I already have a .22lr Pistol. I'm not sure how much more accurate a .22 magnum or hornet is -or how much harder to licence they are? In any even my starting position is a nice accurate .22 which could be used for benchrest or in the field.

For shotgun - don't know what I want :-) , so as I'm not exactly a conneisseuer here I don't want to blow a lot of money on a beautiful piece with a work of art as as stock ......... may a semi auto is handy / cheap to start with? Would only be used for clays........

I realise I've asked a lot here, and just hope that I've been clear enough for you to respond, and that I come across as reasonable. As I understand it 3 firearms could be licensed without restriction, or potentially without a monitored alarm, at the Super's discretion. I will need range membership so will have to talk nicely to Pat @ hilltop, though as I initially plan to store the firearms securely at my parents place in Mullingar till I get my own place later in the year or next year. Would be very appreciative of any advice, anything about licensing, or of course opinions on the guns themselves or storage - whatever, would be very grateful for it.

Many thanks
Martin

endasmail

youl have your work cut out trying to license a pistol hear now
as some of the lads on hear can comment on

join a club

try and route out some farmers that will give you written permission to shoot on their lands

look around for a gun you like ,put a deposit on it

get serial number off it

apply for license off an Garda Siochana

wait several months ,and if successful

license arrives out ,

bobs your uncle ,and fannys your aunt
out shooting with ya

on a side note ,when ya say "starting your gun collection"
ya have have to have "good reason" for all the firearms ya want to collect
if your only shooting clays
id go with a decent over/under

Tea drinker

Thanks Enda :-)

You know yourself there is only ever one good reason for having guns and that is shooting them!
I am from Rural beginnings and so could probably get 2 farmers to sign on the line if needed. 2 is enough? And the same guys could be used for the rifle and shotty? And there is no problem to bring a rifle licensed for hunting to shoot targets? Is there any problems to arrive and shoot at a range - either for pistol/rifle/shotty or are their restrictions to only shoot at your licenced range?

I know some of these are silly questions but just want to be clear on what is / isn't allowed these days.

For the pistol it's dissapointing it's still hard to get a licence even after they made the split between restricted and unrestricted.

endasmail

get 2 or 3 farmers with as much acreage as you can find

they should be good for rifle and shotty

i wouldn apply at same time though
go for one and then later down the road apply for the other

as for the ranges
the only way to defo clear it up is to ring yourself and talk to them direct
hilltop ya mentioned
you could also try courtlough

bunny shooter

Despite what people think or assume licencing a .22lr pistol is no more difficult than any other firearm once you satisfy all the relevant conditions namely range membership & attendance and relevant home security.

I have a Buckmark .22lr pistol and it's :cool:

Tea drinker

bunny shooter wrote: »

Despite what people think or assume licencing a .22lr pistol is no more difficult than any other firearm once you satisfy all the relevant conditions namely range membership & attendance and relevant home security.

Thanks for the info. Could the Super decide a monitred alarm is relevant home security?

I have a Buckmark .22lr pistol and it's :cool:

I seem to recall you mentioning that before ;-)

bunny shooter

Tea drinker wrote: »

Thanks for the info. Could the Super decide a monitred alarm is relevant home security?

Yes but it would normally/should depend on what firearms you have.

Have a read through the Guidelines

http://www.garda.ie/Documents/User/Commissioners%20Guidelines%20(as%20amended%2022nd%20Oct)%20in%20relation%20to%20Firearms%20Licensing%5B1%5D.pdf

most of your questions will be answered. If not just come back here and ask

Shane.sf

From memory I think it goes like this--

1-3 unrestricted firearms -- you need a gun safe

3-5/6 unrestricted firearms-- a safe and an alarm in that room

5/6+ unrestricted firearms-- safe, alarm and a monitored house alarm from a registered company ie eircom etc

The restricted firearms are the same only the number of guns change eg
1 restricted firearm -- gunsafe etc..

Sparks

And be sure to take a peek in the big red flashing announcement at the top of the shooting forums...

Tea drinker

Sparks wrote: »

And be sure to take a peek in the big red flashing announcement at the top of the shooting forums...

Duly noted Sparks! And I have previously read that and again now and understood about 20% of it ;-)
But as some people have to jump through hoops not covered by the official policy (extra handwritten forms etc) I was hoping some real world experience.

Also any thoughts from you guys on good dealers, in midlands or Dublin?

For rifle ranges, I think some only allow .22LR and no larger?

Thanks for any advice guys.

Sparks

Tea drinker wrote: »

I have previously read that and again now and understood about 20% of it ;-)

Well, we do have simplified guides to the process...

But as some people have to jump through hoops not covered by the official policy (extra handwritten forms etc) I was hoping some real world experience.

That tends to be fairly rare though - remember, even though some people do have hassles, 99.5% of all applications go through without difficulty. So your odds are pretty decent.

Also any thoughts from you guys on good dealers, in midlands or Dublin?

I hear good things about John Kavanagh, but mostly for classic & vintage rifles; Tiernans is about the best I've encountered in the ROI for ISSF stuff (but I'm biased, I've known the guy for years); Intershoot is about the best I know of in NI.

For rifle ranges, I think some only allow .22LR and no larger?

Some only - Rathdrum, for example, because their range isn't built for anything larger (you fire a .308 in there and the first thing that'll happen is that you'll burst both eardrums, and the second is that you'll burst the backstop! The third thing will depend on what RO reaches you first :pac: ) And WTSC (because it's an airgun-only range, even a .22lr would go through the target, the backstop, the back wall, the fence, the neighbour's yard and probably their cat before it stopped...) and so on.

dCorbus

Good luck with the move home.

Many of your questions have already been answered by the other lads, but I'll give you my tuppence for what it's worth:

Tea drinker wrote: »

I will likely be returning to Eire this July / August, and want to start my gun collection ASAP after coming home

Not to be facetious about it, but whatever you do, do not go about using terms and phrases such as "starting my gun collection" when you apply for a FAC for any of your firearms.:rolleyes: The P'sTB (and your prospective FO) will undoubtedly read or hear the phrase "start my gun collection" and will immediately think "build up my private arsenal".:(

Seriously, though, if you can show "Good Reason" for each and every firearm you wish to licence, then there is no real reason why each of these cannot be licenced. There are many legitimate and applicable "good reasons" for having a firearm: You just need to make sure that what you apply for, the reasons you give, and the veracity of those reasons all match to the satisfaction of your FO in the first instance (and, depending on what you wish to licence, either your Super or Chief Super). It can depend initially on the "biases" and knowledge, or otherwise, of both your Super/CS and FO as to what may or may not be acceptable to them, but if you have a genuine verifiable and legitimate "good reason" you should be in a position to not only apply for what you want (subject to the limits on prohibited firearms obviously and the nasty 2008 cut-off date for CF pistols).

If you "have good reason" for the firearm for hunting, stalking, vermin control, foxing, targetshooting (in all it's varied and glorious forms, formats, and disciplines), etc. etc., then you should be readily able to apply for, and hopefully receive, a firearms licence for whatever firearm you should require.

One thing to note (and it has been said a million times before on here): If you want to licence the firearm for "target shooting", then you will need to be a member of an authorised target-shooting range and/or club. And you will need to show proof of such membership when submitting your FAC application. If the gun is licenced for target-shooting based on your membership of a range/club, you will need to maintain that membership for the duration of the FAC, or at the very least, if you decide not to renew your membership, make sure you have either joined another range/club or update the licence to provide other "good reason(s)".

However, if you have the FAC granted on the basis of "target shooting" as your primary good reason, this doesn't preclude you from using the gun for hunting or stalking purposes etc. and vice versa (assuming all other requirements and paperwork needed are in place). The primary "good reason" for obtaining the licence need not be the only reason. I understand that in the UK (I may of course be wrong on this) if you are licenced for hunting, you may only use the gun for hunting, and if you are licenced for target shooting, you may only use the gun for target shooting. This is (AFAIK) not the case here and the "good reason" you provide in your FAC application does not preclude the use of the firearm for other shooting sports activities.

Tea drinker wrote: »

I was a regular in Hilltop shooting club for a few years before leaving Ireland 2 years ago

Hilltop's still a great spot for target shooting in many of its beeeeaaaautiful forms, you'll be glad to hear!

Tea drinker wrote: »

I mostly used the hammerli .22 for Pistol partly because it was cheap and mostly so could physically spend longer shooting due to less stress from the recoil.
For the rifle I enjoyed the Anshutz but felt they were a bit too single purpose for me.

Two good choices IMO:cool:

Tea drinker wrote: »

So learning from my past mistake I want to get a collection started asap.

There's that phrase again!;):D

Tea drinker wrote: »

I am interested to get a .22 pistol, I like the reports about buckmark - but never used one and am largely happy with the Hammerli. What do you guys say?

I've heard good reports on the Hammerli Xesse, the Buckmark, Ruger III. But if you like the Xesse, go for it!

There's a bunch of threads on the topic of "best" .22lr pistols - Have a search around in here and you'll get some good info from the lads who "specialise" in pistol shooting - Here's a couple of previous threads on this to get you started :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64045398
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=70929069
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=67720235
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66442924

Tea drinker wrote: »

And I have previously read that and again now and understood about 20% of it ;-)

20% eh? That's good going so!;):D

Tea drinker wrote: »

But as some people have to jump through hoops not covered by the official policy (extra handwritten forms etc) I was hoping some real world experience.

"not covered by the official policy" - Understatement of the week!;):D
Best thing I've found is to read the Commissioners Guidelines inside out, along with as much of the actual legislation that the ol' brain can take in, and hopefully make sure I know more about the process of licencing what I'm trying to licence than the FO. At least that way, you're going in fully armed (if you'll excuse the pun).

It can depend very much on which district you're in - but ask away on here if you have any specific questions (once you've read the Big Flashing thread up top of course:D)

Tea drinker wrote: »

Also any thoughts from you guys on good dealers, in midlands or Dublin?

In the Dublin Area, try Pat in Hilltop, Neil in Crescent Sports in Monkstown, and for pistols there's guys in North Dublin (May-Mac I think) who specialise in them.

Slightly further afield, there's John Kavanagh in Fingal Sports. I haven't bought from him myself (yet), but all reports about him are excellent and he's a gent and a genuine enthusiast to boot!

Further away from Dublin, there's Sean Harding in Stakelums in Thurles. A bit of a drive from Dublin, but well worth it. He's an absolute gent and a great to deal with. Accessible gunroom too - and if you ring him in advance he'll tell you what he has or doesn't have, with no bullsh1t. I can't recommend him highly enough.

There's also John Lambert (Camolin, Wexford), Paul O'Halloran (Drangan, Tipp), and Jim Griffin (Rahan, Offaly). All these guys come recommended and I know plenty of lads have bought from them all.

Up the North, there's Intershoot (who post's on here) - Sam and Ryan are both excellent to deal with and will help facilitate you any way they can. They're both f***ing excellent target shooters too, so you'd be dealing with real enthusiasts and shooting-sportsmen as well. Whilst they are in NI, if they have what you're looking for, they are extremely helpful and useful when it comes to any import paperwork. Intershoot are more established as suppliers of ISSF-type equipment and firearms, but they do very much deal in other shooting products too.

Best to ring around all of the above and see what they all have in stock and what sort of prices they have, then take a trip around the countryside for a spot of firearms viewing.

Tea drinker wrote: »

For rifle ranges, I think some only allow .22LR and no larger?

AFAIK most the ranges (if not all ranges in the Dublin area) are only authorised for up to .22.

For the widest range of range facilities, personally I'd recommend the MNSCI (or Midlands as it's usually known) down in Blueball just outside Tullamore. Of course, I would say that, but they do have the kind of wide-ranging facilities which you can't get elsewhere: Pistol Ranges, 50m .22 Prone (ISSF-type) & Benchrest range, 50m RimFire/Sporter Range, Short-range Fullbore Ranges (100m, 200yards, 300m) - All with covered firing points - plus a Medium Fullbore Range 100 - 600 yards, and a Long-range Fullbore Range 800 - 1200 yards. I'm a member there myself, and one of the reasons I enjoy it there is the fact that you've so much variety in the kind of firearms and ranges one can shoot. It's the Home Range for all NRAI Fullbore Target competitions amongst other events, such as the extremely popular S.T.A.G.S. shoot and next week, it will host the long-awaited (140 years or so) Creedmoor Match between Ireland and the USA in both F-Class disciplines (F-Open and F/TR).

For Pistol and Rimfire Rifle (Benchrest & Gallery) and C/F Gallery, along with Clays, you can't really beat Hilltop for variety near Dublin.

Rathdrum RPC is great for indoor 10 - 25m .22 and Air pistol and rifle (whether prone, sporting, or benchrest).

I've heard some very good reports about the new set-up in Harbour House in Kildare for gallery, rimfire benchrest, and pistols, but haven't yet had the pleasure of shooting there myself.

In the Wicklow hills near Roundwood, there's the East Coast Shooting Club (ECSC) , which again caters for Pistol, Gallery (on occasion), and .22 Rimfire Rifle disciplines (Prone, Sporting, and Benchrest). A good spot too.

Much further afield, there is an Riocht outside Castlemaine in Kerry, which has Smallbore rifle and Pistols, with Fullbore rifles out to 300m. Probably the most scenic and panoramic range in the country, with winds and conditions to boot, but a good spot if you're in the south-west of the country. They're currently home to the VCRAI shoots.

Those are the ranges which I've personally shot on, they all have their good points - Best to visit as many as you can, decide which you like, decide on the type of shooting and calibres you want to shoot, and armed with all that information, decide which best suits you.

All said, there are pretty much members from each and every club and range in the country posting on here, so any questions you may have will be vigorously and expertly answered by one or many of the posters around these here parts.;)

Hope that's of some help to you.

Tea drinker

Wow, Fantastic info guys. I'm going to crack with with that as soon as I get back and if I hit some hurdle I'll be back ;-)

In the meantime if you have any recommmendations or something secondhand and sweet comes up sure keep me in mind.

All the best and thanks again fella's

Shane.sf

You have to be living here for at least six months before you can apply to hold a firearms certificate.* This applies also to Irish citizens returning to Ireland having lived abroad.
The Garda Síochána is the licensing authority for firearms.* You can find more information on firearms licensing and the application form on the*Garda*website.



Found this on the department of justice website and thought it might interest you.

Tea drinker

Shane.sf wrote: »

You have to be living here for at least six months before you can apply to hold a firearms certificate.* This applies also to Irish citizens returning to Ireland having lived abroad.
The Garda Síochána is the licensing authority for firearms.* You can find more information on firearms licensing and the application form on the*Garda*website.



Found this on the department of justice website and thought it might interest you.

It is interesting, thanks for bringing that up. I am tax resident in Ireland and use my mothers residence for tax as well as residence during stay.
Dunno if that fits the bill, probably not. Would be fairly frustrated to hand over many '000s every year just to get a "eff you" when asking for something in return. :eek:

Anyone else encounter this and know how it works?

Shane.sf

In your opinion does it then appear that you are a resident of Ireland and have been all this time.

If so then you can just say you were always a resident of ireland and that you worked outside the country.

This is just a presumption and I am by no means qualified to give you any advise. This is just my view on your situation

Tea drinker

Shane.sf wrote: »

In your opinion does it then appear that you are a resident of Ireland and have been all this time.

If so then you can just say you were always a resident of ireland and that you worked outside the country.

This is just a presumption and I am by no means qualified to give you any advise. This is just my view on your situation

Thanks Shane, that would be my view too, though I best do a bit of diggin to get some surer ground first.

Thanks again fella!

FISMA

Tea Drinker,
Do you now hold any firearms? Do you plan to bring any back with you?

Tea drinker

FISMA wrote: »

Tea Drinker,
Do you now hold any firearms? Do you plan to bring any back with you?

No, though that's one thing that came into my head when I thought of a 6 month delay. Only shotties allowed over here, thought about getting one and found a dealer in town last summer, but I left it as I really didn't expect to be staying here as long as I did. I've missed the old shooting and that's my whole reason for trying to get things sorted ASAP when home, I've wasted a lot of time already.

All the best