Krav Maga - Recommended Instructor

Mr. Question

Hi All, I am interested in doing a 2 day Krav Maga training course to compliment my TKD self defence training. I do not mind where the course is held in IRE. I have researched on the web and also on the Krav Maga threads here. I am unsure as to which course to do. From what I can gather, the top 2 Krav Maga instructors appear to be Patrick Cumiskey and Aidan Carroll.

1. Are these two guys the best?
2. What is the difference or pros/cons between them?

Any help appreciated. If these specific questions were answered here previously then my apologies but I could not find the answers. Many Thanks.

quagmired

question id ask myself is if the 'instructor' is 2 stone overweight what does that say about his expertise and articles about weight loss. Emperor's new clothes anyone!?

cowzerp

quagmired wrote: »

question id ask myself is if the 'instructor' is 2 stone overweight what does that say about his expertise and articles about weight loss. Emperor's new clothes anyone!?

Self discipline and expertise are not the same thing, The most knowledgable people can be out of shape, discipline and or necessity to be in shape has to be considered.

bill buchanan

quagmired wrote: »

question id ask myself is if the 'instructor' is 2 stone overweight what does that say about his expertise and articles about weight loss. Emperor's new clothes anyone!?

There's no way Mickey could have taken on Apollo Creed!

The "rubbishness" of KM is not related to the instructor. It's related to the style, IMO.

singlesnights

Mr. Question wrote: »

Hi All, I am interested in doing a 2 day Krav Maga training course to compliment my TKD self defence training. I do not mind where the course is held in IRE. I have researched on the web and also on the Krav Maga threads here. I am unsure as to which course to do. From what I can gather, the top 2 Krav Maga instructors appear to be Patrick Cumiskey and Aidan Carroll.

1. Are these two guys the best?
2. What is the difference or pros/cons between them?

Any help appreciated. If these specific questions were answered here previously then my apologies but I could not find the answers. Many Thanks.

I would highly recommend Aidan Carroll - he's absolutely fantastic. While he is indeed qualified in KM, he's not limited to it.

I haven't taken any classes with Patrick but know lots of people who think he is great. I've also met him - very nice guy.

Hope that helps,

Paul

Civilian Personal Protection

Aidan comes highly recommended i have heard. not met him though to be fair.

singlesnights

Civilian Personal Protection wrote: »

Aidan comes highly recommended i have heard. not met him though to be fair.

Top bloke - very humble and straight-talking.

Theprofesser

But Cumiskey was trained by the Navy Seals lol, they took time out to train him up!!!
Also the Israeli secret assassination squad,The army rangers, SWAT and any others you can think off, he has either trained or been trained by these,in fact i hear he is in line for the new James Bond lol....I took his 12 week course, left after week 3 when i seen through his lies.

thegreatiam

Theprofesser wrote: »

But Cumiskey was trained by the Navy Seals lol, they took time out to train him up!!!
Also the Israeli secret assassination squad,The army rangers, SWAT and any others you can think off, he has either trained or been trained by these,in fact i hear he is in line for the new James Bond lol....I took his 12 week course, left after week 3 when i seen through his lies.

That was worth waking this thread up for

The Megaphone

I took the 12 week course with Patrick Cumiskey (Krav Maga Ireland) a few years ago - i highly recommend him and his team, really good and enthusiastic guys...

BJJ_Expert

The Megaphone wrote: »

I took the 12 week course with Patrick Cumiskey (Krav Maga Ireland) a few years ago - i highly recommend him and his team, really good and enthusiastic guys...

I heard the exact opposite and pretty pricey, see if I can find an email from him, " Learn deadly techniques on how to disarm and kill 10 street punks in 1 second with 2 days training all for just €XXX euros !!!!! "

BJJ_Expert

Theprofesser wrote: »

But Cumiskey was trained by the Navy Seals lol, they took time out to train him up!!!
Also the Israeli secret assassination squad,The army rangers, SWAT and any others you can think off, he has either trained or been trained by these,in fact i hear he is in line for the new James Bond lol....I took his 12 week course, left after week 3 when i seen through his lies.

And don't forget SEAL Team SIX !!! Looks like it all right, great training if some guy attacks you and you just happen to be armed with a Styer assault rifle !!!!



http://www.kravmagaireland.com/instructor.html

Theprofesser

BJJ_Expert wrote: »

I heard the exact opposite and pretty pricey, see if I can find an email from him, " Learn deadly techniques on how to disarm and kill 10 street punks in 1 second with 2 days training all for just €XXX euros !!!!! "

195 euro is what he charged me....when I questioned his background he buckled and told more lies.As for an instructor team, maybe they were hiding in the shadows as all I seen was him and some big stout guy that couldn't finish the warm up he started with us...

Gumbi

Cumiskey... Isn't he the fella who advertised the horrible "anti-MMA self defense seminar@ some time ago? Stay well away from that kind of stuff...

daphne

I have looked into his (Cumiskey) course... sent him a couple of emails inquiring about courses outside Dublin. Email replies very geared towards you paying up money immediately and giving the impression that if you "book in next couple of days you can avail of discounted price of 195 euros as opposed to usual price of 400 euros".

This kind of tactic doesn't inspire confidence, personally.

Now looking into the other guy...

arybvtcw0eolkf

daphne wrote: »

I have looked into his (Cumiskey) course... sent him a couple of emails inquiring about courses outside Dublin. Email replies very geared towards you paying up money immediately and giving the impression that if you "book in next couple of days you can avail of discounted price of 195 euros as opposed to usual price of 400 euros".

This kind of tactic doesn't inspire confidence, personally.

Now looking into the other guy...

And thats for something like two days instruction?.

Honestly, and I'm not poking fun at you. But why on earth would you spend that kind of money on a few days instruction in something which is almost universally ridiculed?.

That kind of money would get you over three months instruction in a decent MMA club where in that time you'd get fighting fit, you'd learn basic strikes, take downs and wrestling/grappling skills.. These are the basic skills you'll need to learn to fight or defend yourself, there really is no short cuts.

Sorry but I'm just baffled as to why people buy into this and spend that kind of money.

daphne

Eden Miniature Dandruff wrote: »

And thats for something like two days instruction?.

Honestly, and I'm not poking fun at you. But why on earth would you spend that kind of money on a few days instruction in something which is almost universally ridiculed?.

That kind of money would get you over three months instruction in a decent MMA club where in that time you'd get fighting fit, you'd learn basic strikes, take downs and wrestling/grappling skills.. These are the basic skills you'll need to learn to fight or defend yourself, there really is no short cuts.

Sorry but I'm just baffled as to why people buy into this and spend that kind of money.

I can see that your secret weapon must be to patronise your opponent into submission!

I know nothing about martial arts and therefore I cannot comment on your assertion about krav maga being universally ridiculed. On the contrary, I haven't seen any such strong assertions either in this forum or anywhere else. I am however open to whatever arguments those who are involved in martial arts/self defense instruction may have.

I'm a reasonably fit female who wishes to learn self-defense skills. I'm not interested in learning karate/judo/ju-jitsu or whatever. I appreciate nothing can be mastered in the course of 2 days - a 3 month course would be great if I can find something which would suit me. But as I've said - the objectives of said course would have to have similar objectives to what I've read about Krav Maga - i.e., teaching person how to do maximum damage by whatever means possible in a situation where your safety or your life is threatened.

I'd love to hear about any such courses/clubs offering above in the West!

arybvtcw0eolkf

daphne wrote: »

I know nothing about martial arts and therefore I cannot comment on your assertion about krav maga being universally ridiculed. On the contrary, I haven't seen any such strong assertions either in this forum or anywhere else. I am however open to whatever arguments those who are involved in martial arts/self defense instruction may have.!

You're right, you don't know anything about martial arts but you've come to a forum where the majority of users know a thing or two.

Use the search function here (I know it ain't the best search engine in the world) and you'll get a whole clatter of argument mostly against KM.

But hey its your money, lets know how you get on if you find a course in the west please.

Gumbi

Maki Komi is being direct and honest, if a bit harsh, daphne. He knows what he's talking about and has something against KM (as do a lot of us here), hence the "emotive" response. It's off putting to put years into something and then see vulnerable people who don't know better pay big money for absolutely nothing.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Gumbi wrote: »

Maki Komi is being direct and honest, if a bit harsh, daphne. He knows what he's talking about and has something against KM (as do a lot of us here), hence the "emotive" response. It's off putting to put years into something and then see vulnerable people who don't know better pay big money for absolutely nothing.

First off I hate that I sometimes come across as a little harsh here, I'm well aware of it (Cowzer told me often enough in person). But I don't set out with that intention, so again (to the forum) I apologize.

I actually don't have anything against Krav at all, I have something against someone who markets BS two day courses for two hundred quid.

thegreatiam

daphne wrote: »

I appreciate nothing can be mastered in the course of 2 days - a 3 month course would be great if I can find something which would suit me. But as I've said - the objectives of said course would have to have similar objectives to what I've read about Krav Maga - i.e., teaching person how to do maximum damage by whatever means possible in a situation where your safety or your life is threatened.

The problem is the 2 day and the 3 month course are exactly the same, just 1 hour a week or 8 hours a day. You'll learn the same.


You cannot learn to defend your self with a course. The optimal self defense course would be how to avoid danger coupled with some form of sprint and long distance running. the only true self defense is to not be there when things go bad.

to do this>

teaching person how to do maximum damage by whatever means possible in a situation where your safety or your life is threatened.

requires hours upon hours of drilling on a daily basis for months and months until it becomes instinctive and a natural reflex. a part time 'course' can't do that.

Now on the other hand if you want to spend your money on something which can be fun, physically demanding without too much pressure by all means do the krav maga course. youll certainly have fun, you may learn some nice looking kicks and punches, but youll be no better off when it comes to defending yourself.

I would say 3 months membership at a boxing gym or mma gym will be better spent. You'll get fitter, meet some interesting people and learn a new sport.

daphne

@thegreatiam

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you're saying - would probably learn more effective techniques in a club environment. Always the way with sports/hobbies.

@Makikomi

1. You would be more helpful if you were able to summarise why these KM courses are bad idea - lots of people on these forums are singing the praises of KM and the courses. Is the whole technique or just the way it's taught that bothers you?
2. This is a self-defence forum - how, in your opinion, do you learn self-defence?
3. What can I hope to learn in 3 months going to MMA gym - will these techniques help at all in a really bad situation - NOT pub brawl/street fight.

thegreatiam

daphne wrote: »

@thegreatiam

Thank you for your reply. I understand what you're saying - would probably learn more effective techniques in a club environment. Always the way with sports/hobbies.

@Makikomi

1. You would be more helpful if you were able to summarise why these KM courses are bad idea - lots of people on these forums are singing the praises of KM and the courses. Is the whole technique or just the way it's taught that bothers you?
2. This is a self-defence forum - how, in your opinion, do you learn self-defence?
3. What can I hope to learn in 3 months going to MMA gym - will these techniques help at all in a really bad situation - NOT pub brawl/street fight.

1. nothing wrong with KM, KM is fine, despite some peoples opinions on it. The problem is the way it is marketed, there are some dodgy people who just want your money and fleece you for it, make false promises and usually over charge. Find a Krav maga club, not a weekend course and you should be ok.
2. stay fit, stay strong, stay aware.
3. no technique can help in a bad situation, other than running away as fast as possible. the trick is to not get in a bad situation. (see point 2)
the mma, or other martial arts gym helps with the first two parts of point 2. getting physically stronger, learning the correct way to throw a punch or kick, or break a hold and drilling them with resisting partners will aid in your escape. the confidence this gives you helps you become more aware and less of a target.

Damo W

daphne wrote: »

.
I'd love to hear about any such courses/clubs offering above in the West!

There are some excellent clubs/gyms/dojo etc. in Galway, possibly contact some of them and see what they have to offer. Possibly they might be in a position to engage with a group of people who wish to lean a specific skill set or provide private individual training.

Richy06

If you spent 3 months learning in a MMA or similar martial art club and the same amount in a KM 'club', then you will get a lot more out of the training in the MMA/Martial arts club from a fitness, self confidence, technique and value for money point of view.

BJJ_Expert

daphne wrote: »

I can see that your secret weapon must be to patronise your opponent into submission!

I know nothing about martial arts and therefore I cannot comment on your assertion about krav maga being universally ridiculed. On the contrary, I haven't seen any such strong assertions either in this forum or anywhere else. I am however open to whatever arguments those who are involved in martial arts/self defense instruction may have.

Most posters here point out it's BS and rightly so.

I'm a reasonably fit female who wishes to learn self-defense skills. I'm not interested in learning karate/judo/ju-jitsu or whatever. I appreciate nothing can be mastered in the course of 2 days - a 3 month course would be great if I can find something which would suit me. But as I've said - the objectives of said course would have to have similar objectives to what I've read about Krav Maga - i.e., teaching person how to do maximum damage by whatever means possible in a situation where your safety or your life is threatened.

I'd love to hear about any such courses/clubs offering above in the West!

Defendu.ie is an MMA club that runs practical classes for women and don't pretend that you'll be able to beat up a gang of bikers or something after just a few lessons.

http://www.defendu.ie/womens-self-defence

cowzerp

Richy06 wrote: »

If you spent 3 months learning in a MMA or similar martial art club and the same amount in a KM 'club', then you will get a lot more out of the training in the MMA/Martial arts club from a fitness, self confidence, technique and value for money point of view.

Anyone who comes from my club from Krav Maga clubs tell me they're basically teaching MMA but from a really low standard-this is to be expected when people who never trained or fought MMA start teaching MMA.

Gumbi

Eden Miniature Dandruff wrote: »

First off I hate that I sometimes come across as a little harsh here, I'm well aware of it (Cowzer told me often enough in person). But I don't set out with that intention, so again (to the forum) I apologize.

I actually don't have anything against Krav at all, I have something against someone who markets BS two day courses for two hundred quid.

And I don't disagree with that at all. Without the benefit of physical interaction, a comment on the Internet can be mis-interpreted. Oh, and apologies for the mis-phrasing regarding Krav.

arybvtcw0eolkf

daphne wrote: »

@Makikomi

1. You would be more helpful if you were able to summarise why these KM courses are bad idea - lots of people on these forums are singing the praises of KM and the courses. Is the whole technique or just the way it's taught that bothers you?
2. This is a self-defence forum - how, in your opinion, do you learn self-defence?
3. What can I hope to learn in 3 months going to MMA gym - will these techniques help at all in a really bad situation - NOT pub brawl/street fight.

First off most of us here are blue in the face with KM discussion.

If you bothered with the search function you'll see that I've practiced KM with the Israeli Defence Forces in Israel.. You'll also find that I've been a member of the defence forces for 28 years, so I'm a little more practiced in training in both armed and unarmed combat than most here.

Speaking with the benefit of experience and hindsight in both KM, Judo, BJJ, MMA and Kickboxing I'm passing on my experience through these discussions ~ search function again!.

I also have twenty plus years in the security industry where I've worked close protection plus bars & clubs ~ I know what works and what doesn't.

What works?.. training in realistic styles such as I listed above and against fully resisting opponents ~ and time spent training under some of the best coaches in the country, some being subscribers to this forum.

What doesn't work, this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNFtQjNWPw4

Frankly it's embarrassing.

And I feel like tearing my eyes out with my bayonet whenever I see this;



I'd love to find you somewhere I could recommend in the west but I can't.

What I would advise is that you don't give your money to someone offering two day KM courses, of course they'll tell you that you're now able to handle yourself in a self defence situation and lull you into a false sense of security.

What I do believe works if you train on a continual basis is some of the combatives classes.. Our moderator Yomchi might be able to recommend someone out in the west for you.

Alternatively contact the good folk at Defendu.ie and see if they can hook you up with someout in your area.

Tom.D.BJJ

daphne wrote: »

I can see that your secret weapon must be to patronise your opponent into submission!

Haha, that's brilliant.

rain on

thegreatiam wrote: »

1. nothing wrong with KM, KM is fine, despite some peoples opinions on it. The problem is the way it is marketed, there are some dodgy people who just want your money and fleece you for it, make false promises and usually over charge. Find a Krav maga club, not a weekend course and you should be ok.
2. stay fit, stay strong, stay aware.
3. no technique can help in a bad situation, other than running away as fast as possible. the trick is to not get in a bad situation. (see point 2)
the mma, or other martial arts gym helps with the first two parts of point 2. getting physically stronger, learning the correct way to throw a punch or kick, or break a hold and drilling them with resisting partners will aid in your escape. the confidence this gives you helps you become more aware and less of a target.

Another benefit I have found from being a woman doing MMA is that I am now perfectly used to physical confrontation with men twice my size - it doesn't faze me at all any more. I am pretty sure now that if I was say, attacked walking home at night, my chances of just panicking and freezing are much smaller. Every day of the week I go up against guys who could end me in a heartbeat - randomers on the street have nothing on them to my mind! I don't do MMA for self defence purposes but I have no doubt that it helps .. plus it gives you cardio for days which helps with the running away bit!

Daphne I do MMA in Galway - feel free to PM me if you want info on the club I go to.