Brannan - Donelson Questions

Tuck

Hi all, I have a couple of questions. First of all, does anyone know anything about the name Brannan and if its related to Brennan? Secondly, is Donelson an Irish name and if so is it related to O'Donnell? Thank you.

owenc

Right well they are both irish here is what surnamedb.com has got to say!

Donalson:
This name is of Scottish and Irish origin, and is the anglicized form of the Gaelic patronymic name 'MacDomhnall', meaning 'son of Donald'. The Gaelic personal name 'Domhnall' is composed of the Celtic elements 'dubro' meaning 'world' and 'val', meaning 'might, rule', and is found in 13th Century Scotland as 'Dofnald', 'Douenald' and 'Dufenald'. As a surname it first appears in 1328, when one Haket Donald paid his 'contribution for peace' to the Bailie of Kinross, recorded in the Exchequer Rolls of Scotland. David Donaldson was one of the tenants of Campsie in 1443. The variants Donelson and Donalson are most widespread in Northern England and in Ulster. On February 17th 1708 Christian Donelson, an infant, was christened in Drumbo Presbyterian, County Down and on November 7th 1727 Simon Donalson and Mary Hull were married in St. Mary-le-Bow, Durham. On March 27th 1867 the birth of James, son of David Donalson and Mary Jane Brady, was recorded in Banbridge, County Down. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Henry Donaldson, of the Garrison of Edinburgh Castle, which was dated 1339, Scottish Public Records Office, during the reign of King David II of Scotland, 1329 - 1371. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

and then brennan:

This is an Anglicized form of two distinct Gaelic Irish surnames:-O'Braonain and MacBranan. The gaelic prefix "O" indicated "male descendant of", plus "braon", a "tear" or "drop", possibly meaning "sorrow" in this case. "Mac" means "son of", plus "bran", a raven, referring to one with coal black hair. The diminutive suffix "A(i)n" is attached to both names. The chief O' Braonain (Brennan) sept belonged to Leinster where they held considerable estates in Co. Kilkenny prior to the 17th Century, after which several clan members became "highwaymen". The MacBrennans belonged to Co. Roscommon and their chiefs held sway here from 1159 - 1488. Present day namebearers in counties Roscommon, Mayo and Sligo were originally Mac Branans. Edward, son of John and Hannah Brennan, was christened on August 29th 1799 at Lying in Hospital, Eddell Street, London. One Christe Brenann, aged 20 yrs., a famine emigrant, sailed from Liverpool aboard the Pacific bound for New York on May 28th 1847. The first recorded spelling of the family name is shown to be that of Mac Branain, chief of County Roscommon, which was dated 1159, "The Annals of the Four Masters", during the reign of High Kings of Ireland "with opposition", 1022 - 1166. Surnames became necessary when governments introduced personal taxation. In England this was known as Poll Tax. Throughout the centuries, surnames in every country have continued to "develop" often leading to astonishing variants of the original spelling.

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/brennan#ixzz1PGfJ3ZKI

Tuck

Thank you, yes I've read that site before but I guess I am uncertain on how they are related. If the Brennan is anglicized for Brannan, then what about those whose name is still Brannan, does that mean that the Brennan's and the Brannan's are cousins (came from the same common ancestor)? Same thing with Donelson, at first I thought it was Scottish and a form of Donaldson, but then I seen O'Donnell which is son of and Donel+son seems closer than Donald+son. I'm just trying to establish some sort of connection...I can find multiple sources on Brennan but hardly nothing on Brannan and the same for Donelson, I can find lots of data on Donaldson and O'Donnell but hardly nothing on Donelson.

owenc

Tuck wrote: »

Thank you, yes I've read that site before but I guess I am uncertain on how they are related. If the Brennan is anglicized for Brannan, then what about those whose name is still Brannan, does that mean that the Brennan's and the Brannan's are cousins (came from the same common ancestor)? Same thing with Donelson, at first I thought it was Scottish and a form of Donaldson, but then I seen O'Donnell which is son of and Donel+son seems closer than Donald+son. I'm just trying to establish some sort of connection...I can find multiple sources on Brennan but hardly nothing on Brannan and the same for Donelson, I can find lots of data on Donaldson and O'Donnell but hardly nothing on Donelson.

Yes they are most likely related this was a common thing to occur in the island in the 16-1800s as many folk did not know how to spell their name so they spelt it the way it sounded! That is why some surnames have changed to different spellings. There could also be other reasons like religion and family fights aswell. Personally i just believe that brannan is another spelling for the name brennan and it developed over the years into a different spelling. Yes where are you from? By the sounds of things its somewhere in the west of ireland and by going by that i'd say that your name was translated from irish and that is the only name that it could match.. irish people always get confused if their name is english or scottish but often it is irish and it is just translated into english... for example smith, theres tons of smiths down south but most of them are irish descent and probably wouldn't have any english blood in them it just so happens that thats what it translated into!

owenc

Tuck wrote: »

Thank you, yes I've read that site before but I guess I am uncertain on how they are related. If the Brennan is anglicized for Brannan, then what about those whose name is still Brannan, does that mean that the Brennan's and the Brannan's are cousins (came from the same common ancestor)? Same thing with Donelson, at first I thought it was Scottish and a form of Donaldson, but then I seen O'Donnell which is son of and Donel+son seems closer than Donald+son. I'm just trying to establish some sort of connection...I can find multiple sources on Brennan but hardly nothing on Brannan and the same for Donelson, I can find lots of data on Donaldson and O'Donnell but hardly nothing on Donelson.

Yes donelson is probably donaldson so look out for donaldson in your area and if you don't find anything put in donnell.

P. Breathnach

Without giving us more information, I think the best answer you can get is "possibly".

The first question that comes to my mind is whether you are American; the second question is what religious affiliations the people had; the third is what given names you know about; the fourth is how far back in time you can place the names.

Then people might be able to suggest some reasonable possibilities.

Tuck

Thank you all,

@P. Breathnach: That's my problem I just don't know enough information to provide..... and while searching the only thing I can find is "other" families or spellings, that is why I asked if Brannan is the same as Brennan and if Donelson is the same as O'Donnell. If they are the same then that might be while I am hitting brickwalls. I will give you what I have, I am an American. My mother's madden name is Brannan and I have searched this branch back to the 1700's here in America possibly to a John Brannan born in Stradbally in 1745. I can find all kinds of information on Brennan but hardly nothing on Brannan. Donelson just goes back to the mid 1800's here in America to Arkansas, a John Wesley Donelson who married a Sarah Williams. I have searched high and low and can't find anything that is why I am wondering if his father perhaps had another last name like O'Donnell or Donaldson. I am sorry if I can't provide enough information, I was just trying to find a correlation somewhere between the name associations. Thank you for your help.

@owenc: Thank you.

P. Breathnach

Stradbally is an important clue. It is in Co. Laois, a place where there is no shortage of Brennans. The date 1745 also helps, on the simple basis that spellings were not standardised at the time, and you could find varying spellings of names -- sometimes for the same individual. I'd be fairly confident that you can claim the Brennans as your people.

I would guess that anybody named John Welsey + surname was a Wesleyan or Methodist. I would go with your guess that it is a variant of Donaldson, and if he was Irish, I would think it probable that he was from Northern Ireland, and of the Scots-Irish tradition. The O'Donnells were far more likely to be Roman Catholic, and therefore unlikely to name their children after John Wesley.

It's guesswork, of course, so treat my suggestions with appropriate caution.

shanew

from McLysaght's Surnames of Ireland

(Mác) Brannan - an import name in North Connaght, to be distinguised from Brennan, though that form is often used.

(Ó) Brannan - An erenagh family of Fermanagh, now often called Brennan.

Brennan (also Ó Brennan) - The name of four unrelated septs, located in Ossary, east Galway, Kerry and Westmeath. The Co. Fermanagh sept was Anglicized Brennan as well as Brannan.

O'Donnell - the main sept esp. in the 17thC is of Tirconnell, another is of Thomond, and a third of Ui Maine

There's no listing for Donaldson except to say it's considered equivalent to Donellson.

In my opinion Donaldson/Donelson would not be related directly to O'Donnell, but Brennan, Brannan etc could easily be connect surname. It's quite common for names to be recorded with different spellings over time (sometimes even in the same document) as there was no standard way to spell these, and two concurrent languages.



Shane

Tuck

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Stradbally is an important clue. It is in Co. Laois, a place where there is no shortage of Brennans. The date 1745 also helps, on the simple basis that spellings were not standardised at the time, and you could find varying spellings of names -- sometimes for the same individual. I'd be fairly confident that you can claim the Brennans as your people.

I would guess that anybody named John Welsey + surname was a Wesleyan or Methodist. I would go with your guess that it is a variant of Donaldson, and if he was Irish, I would think it probable that he was from Northern Ireland, and of the Scots-Irish tradition. The O'Donnells were far more likely to be Roman Catholic, and therefore unlikely to name their children after John Wesley.

It's guesswork, of course, so treat my suggestions with appropriate caution.

Thank you very Much! This helps out alot, I can start searching Brennan and Donaldson now so probably more doors will open for me. I had never thought that about the name John Wesley....thank you indeed!

Tuck

shanew wrote: »

from McLysaght's Surnames of Ireland

(Mác) Brannan - an import name in North Connaght, to be distinguised from Brennan, though that form is often used.

(Ó) Brannan - An erenagh family of Fermanagh, now often called Brennan.

Brennan (also Ó Brennan) - The name of four unrelated septs, located in Ossary, east Galway, Kerry and Westmeath. The Co. Fermanagh sept was Anglicized Brennan as well as Brannan.

O'Donnell - the main sept esp. in the 17thC is of Tirconnell, another is of Thomond, and a third of Ui Maine

There's no listing for Donaldson except to say it's considered equivalent to Donellson.

In my opinion Donaldson/Donelson would not be related directly to O'Donnell, but Brennan, Brannan etc could easily be connect surname. It's quite common for names to be recorded with different spellings over time (sometimes even in the same document) as there was no standard way to spell these, and two concurrent languages.



Shane

Thanks Shane!

P. Breathnach

Tuck wrote: »

Thank you very Much! This helps out alot, I can start searching Brennan and Donaldson now so probably more doors will open for me. I had never thought that about the name John Wesley....thank you indeed!

Do bear in mind the cautionary note at the end of my post!

Tuck

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Do bear in mind the cautionary note at the end of my post!

yes....I will. I read somewhere that Brennan is anglicized for Brannan and that Brannan is anglicized for O'Brannan and MacBrannan (with various spellings) and that when many left Ireland they took with them their "at that time" name meaning that in the 1700's Brannan hadn't been anglicized yet therefore that is why in America there are still many Brannan's but in Ireland more Brennan's, not sure though. As far as Donelson, it is probably more likely a Scottish variant of Donaldson so I will look there. Thank you!

P. Breathnach

Tuck wrote: »

yes....I will. I read somewhere that Brennan is anglicized for Brannan and that Brannan is anglicized for O'Brannan and MacBrannan ...

Not quite. The Gaelic forms are Ó Braonáin and Mac Braonáin.

Tuck

Ok, this is what I have found out thus far:

Brannan and Brennan are the same name just different spelling, most of the Brannan's in Ireland are present day Brennan's. Br()nnan is anglicized from O'Brennan which in turn is from the Sept of O'Braonain. There were several different "O'Brennan" Sept's but the two that are still around today are the O'Brennan's who descend from Braonan the son of Cearbhall, who was the King of Ossory and the MacBrennan's of Roscommon. This text is pertaining to the O'Brennan's of Ossory. Braonan was titled the Prince of Idough by his father the King of Ossory Cearbhall.

The ancient O'Brennan's (Ua Braonain) were the clan chiefs of Idough (Ui Duach) an area in the area known as Ossory (Osraighe). Ossory was located in present day Counties of Kilkenny and Laois. Ui Duach (Idough) is the clan-name of the O'Brennans of Ossary.


Source: Journal of the Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland, Volume 5 By Royal Society of Antiquaries of Ireland


http://books.google.com/books?id=qPPGAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA206&a...


http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~irlkik/history/ossory.htm

Thanks all for your help!