Gas Fracking

garth-marenghi

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

can i get my hands on an anti-fracking car-sticker? Want to put one up. many thanks.

Hi. If you are around Manorhamiliton there is a shop on the Main street called "Through the Looking Glass". Its across the road frum Gurns pub (the milestone bar), they are on sale there for two euro. Anti-fracking t-shirts/high vis vests should also be available for 5.50/6euro

http://frackingfreeireland.org/info-to-download/sticker-images/
(details at bottom of this link).


In the Leitrim Sculpture centre in Manorhamiliton there is a Fracking Information Centre ongoing until wednesday next week as far as i know with those resources for sale. Best to give them a ring first as could be wrong. (0)71 9855098

Voodoo_rasher

if this is indeed true. Appalling.

http://oceanfm.ie/article/Coillte-denies-signing-deal-for-gas-extraction/

tuppence

Voodoo_rasher wrote: »

if this is indeed true. Appalling.

http://oceanfm.ie/article/Coillte-denies-signing-deal-for-gas-extraction/

Re the article above. See attached the main extensive article from John Mulligan, Irish Independent. There is a link for comments and feedback which can help ensure issue remains topical on a national level.
http://www.independent.ie/farming/news-features/coillte-denies-signing-deal-for-gas-extraction-2967861.html

IvyTheTerrible

Pat Kenny is discussing fracking on his radio show right now.

Kepti

Here's a well-referenced article on fracking that's worth reading or listening to. It takes aim at the claims made in Gasland.

"Hydraulic fracturing of natural gas wells incites powerful emotions. How much of the hype is justified?"
http://skeptoid.com/episodes/4275

Geuze

Nice essay on the politics and economics of shale gas in Europe:

http://www.the-american-interest.com/article-bd.cfm?piece=1168

Geuze

WSJ article on shale gas in the USA:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703712504576232582990089002.html

Geuze

Increased shale gas production has caused natural gas prices to fall sharply in the USA.

This boosts competitiveness and jobs.

Geuze

Natural gas prices are highest in Asia.

Lower in Europe ($8), and lower still in the USA ($4).

Unlike oil, which has a world market, and can be relatively easily transported, differences in gas prices worlwide can remain.

Shale gas has the potential to drive down energy costs and reduce our dependence on imported energy.

tuppence

Cripes you turn your back and out of the woodwork....

Basically this is the sad picture, a large section mainly rural dwellers of the Americain population have been engaged in a field study , as in order to promote the industry under Bushs regime it was let go without due regulation. They've had nowhere to go except lawsuits therefore with their first hand evidence of observed pollution because companies have been denying it. The Americain EPA are only now in a state of catch up and are in the process of a large scale study, the results of which wont be out til 2014. The Irish EPA cannot come up with anything substantial to guide their results without that evidence so at the very least there should be a moratorium out on it before then.


Evidence has already been available linking water pollution with gas industry by independent research by Duke University and of the industries negative impact climate change by Cornell university.
Some preliminary information is already coming out from the Americain EPA which isnt good linking water and ground pollution in Pavillion in America with drilling.
http://www.epa.gov/region8/superfund/wy/pavillion/EPA_ReportOnPavillion_Dec-8-2011.pdf
And then theres the evidence of ground tremors in two areas , in England as we all know but also most recently on New Years Eve in Ohio
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2012/01/ohio-earthquake-linked-to-frac.html


And then the goldrush that it is based on appears to be a lot of hot air too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/26/us/26gas.html?pagewanted=1&_r=3&src=tptw

We cannot afford to displace two of our thriving indigenous and sustainable industies for something short term and unproven.

Our local tourism will be decimated by the visual impact of the land mass that this industry is proven to take up, and that is before the debate begins on chemicals and public health. Our clean reputution in our farming industry (worth an estimated 9 billion a year in 2011 to our exchequer) is also at serious risk. For example our baby formula exports would be ruined with just a hint of this type of polution particluarly of a deleterious product such as benzene. Thats real economics.

The European Union in a recent 2011 report have already said that there is not the proper regulatory systems in place to monitor this and advised urgently for this.
For us to go down this road at this time would be nilhistic. I would like to think we have learnt our lessons on speculation from our recent past. We have too much to lose this time.

tuppence

Sligo and Donegal councllors support their communities.

http://www.thejournal.ie/donegal-and-sligo-become-latest-local-authorities-to-ban-fracking-329929-Jan2012/

tuppence

A call made by the antifracking movement to show your support and thanks to Sligo and Donegal councillors.

In a reaction to Sligo County Council's decision to ban Fracking in Sligo County, Richard Moorman has asked to be on Ocean FM on Wed. morning between 9am and 10am on the Niall Delaney show. We have heard in advance that he has been highly critical of the decision and undermining of the community movement behind it. We are calling on all those who can to contact the station to show their support for the Council's decision, to let all other decision makers know just what a popular movement (crossing all the divides and borders) this is. You can email the show at niall.delaney@oceanfm.ie . Txt 0833500530. Call and leave a message on 0719118100. This can be done all day Wednesday and not just during the programme.

Geuze

More gas supplies in the US have driven down the wholesale cost of electricity:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/electricity-declines-50-in-u-s-as-shale-brings-natural-gas-glut-energy.html

We all complain about high elec costs in Irl.

Shale gas fired power plants would:

• reduce oil and coal imports, improving the trade balance
• reduce CO2 emissions
• reduce elec prices
• boost GDP and national income

tuppence

Geuze wrote: »

More gas supplies in the US have driven down the wholesale cost of electricity:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-17/electricity-declines-50-in-u-s-as-shale-brings-natural-gas-glut-energy.html

We all complain about high elec costs in Irl.

Shale gas fired power plants would:

• reduce oil and coal imports, improving the trade balance
• reduce CO2 emissions
• reduce elec prices
• boost GDP and national income

At what price?
My response above still stands and also here is data conversely on the increased CO2 emissions that this industry would create. (peer reviewed paper)
http://frackingfreeireland.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/04-11shale_gas_footprint_fulltextpdf.pdf

Livster

I was absolutely delighted to hear about the decision to ban fracking in Co Sligo. The environmental risk to the Irish waterways and lakes is something that cannot be quantified. States in America have been destroyed overnight by these fracking companies who accept little and in most cases no responsibility for the damage and destruction they cause.

Thanks Sligo County Council

Kepti

Livster wrote: »

I was absolutely delighted to hear about the decision to ban fracking in Co Sligo. The environmental risk to the Irish waterways and lakes is something that cannot be quantified. States in America have been destroyed overnight by these fracking companies who accept little and in most cases no responsibility for the damage and destruction they cause.

Thanks Sligo County Council

Tone down the hyperbole a bit. States destroyed overnight?

IvyTheTerrible

Kepti wrote: »

Tone down the hyperbole a bit. States destroyed overnight?

User has been banned as a shill, so we can relax!

Radharc na Sleibhte

I'm delighted this has been banned, locally for now at least.
I'm on the no side of the fence, but the way the anti fracking movement go on sometimes :rolleyes:
I just hope it doesn't scare your average Joe away from the real facts and the real implications.

IvyTheTerrible

Radharc na Sleibhte wrote: »

I'm delighted this has been banned, locally for now at least.
I'm on the no side of the fence, but the way the anti fracking movement go on sometimes :rolleyes:
I just hope it doesn't scare your average Joe away from the real facts and the real implications.

Have you got a link to a reference for the ban? I haven't seen anything about it. Thanks!

Geuze

We all complain about high energy prices, and our dependence on foreign energy.........


......and yet when gas or oil is found in Ireland, some people want to ban any production!!!!!!!!!!

wolf99

The answer to high energy pricves is not to find another expensive way of making it and sell it to foreign interests.
But to find a economical (renewable) source and produce/manage it ourselves

+ TBH with you I actually dont hear that many complaining about energy costs other than the news analysts... Never had anybody say to me "ah here what about them ol energy costs now?"

IvyTheTerrible

Geuze wrote: »

We all complain about high energy prices, and our dependence on foreign energy.........


......and yet when gas or oil is found in Ireland, some people want to ban any production!!!!!!!!!!

We should not accept shoddy environmental practises just to satisfy a temporary energy need (cos shale gas is not long term anyway).

Voodoo_rasher

Geuze wrote: »

We all complain about high energy prices, and our dependence on foreign energy.........


......and yet when gas or oil is found in Ireland, some people want to ban any production!!!!!!!!!!

You mean c o n v e n t i o n a l oil/gas?? That which some people want all to themselves and usually obtain here. VIP bidders such as Sir Tony O'Reilly recently. Yep, future exploration has been divvied up and privatised as if you didn't know. Keep topping up at Topaz like I suppose you do ha ha. Whereas, the 'general good' by comparison can make do with 'fracking - the poor man's natural gas.

I notice nobody has remarked that Tamboran named themselves after

something which is also fond of subterranean explosions. The sort that

can shift geological rock strata 100s of meters - its just a couple of hours flight from Australia..

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=15691309

See also http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056536295&page=4

Lets keep the embers of this topic going another while ))

Geuze

Natural gas prices continue to fall in the USA. Now under 4 USD.

Cheaper energy = more competitive economy = more jobs.

We all complain about how things are more expensive here than abroad.

Here is an opportunity to produce more domestic energy, reduce our imports, and boost our incomes.

Geuze

Note that natural gas prices at under 4 USD are below the 2005 prices.

As our incomes come under pressure due to the recession, lower gas and energy costs can soften the blow.

wolf99

Oh well if somethings gonna make something cheaper lets all just bite the bullet, that'd be cheaper, and faster, and therefore more economical....

Try using that thing in your head that some of us like to refer to as a brain.

Geuze

Cheaper energy will make the economy more competitive, reduce costs, reduce overheads, lead to more employment.

One of our problems is too high energy costs, many firms say that excessive energy costs here cause less output, and so we lose jobs.


In a talk at the DEW conf on the Irish economy last week, Tol stressed the importance of cheaper energy.

See here:

http://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/podcasts/ieconf/presentations/RichardTol.pptx

Geuze

wolf99 wrote: »

Oh well if somethings gonna make something cheaper lets all just bite the bullet, that'd be cheaper, and faster, and therefore more economical....

Yes, most industrial and economic progress has indeed been about making things better, faster and/or cheaper.

Telecoms prices - cheaper

Airline fares - Ryanair - cheaper

Norway has a lot of hydro power, which helps keep energy prices low.

France has cheaper energy from nuclear.

We have an opportunity now to reduce energy costs by developing more domestic natural gas.

wolf99

Geuze wrote: »

Cheaper energy will make the economy more competitive, reduce costs, reduce overheads, lead to more employment.

One of our problems is too high energy costs, many firms say that excessive energy costs here cause less output, and so we lose jobs.


In a talk at the DEW conf on the Irish economy last week, Tol stressed the importance of cheaper energy.

See here:

http://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/podcasts/ieconf/presentations/RichardTol.pptx

People can cite reasons for a stale economy till the cows come home, but for promises like this I can simply point at the mayo shell installation and the rigs off the NW coast... no long term jobs, no cheaper energy, no extra energy export and no extra cash injected to the economy.

Companies like this promise anything people want but the only thing companies (any company) are interested in is making top dollar for the man at the top... that is the sole purpose and raison d'etre for a company.
So when they promise you the sky, guess what? They're lying.

wolf99

Geuze wrote: »

Yes, most industrial and economic progress has indeed been about making things better, faster and/or cheaper.

Not true. This is a by product of companies attempting to sell us what they have driven us to want.

I guess I come off as a bit of "stick it to the man" hippy in my last few posts on this thread, I assure you this is not the case These are the cold facts of what actually happens.