Council vote on new Westside Tesco

snubbleste

When is a decision due by the planning authority?
Normally how long does it take?

antoobrien

snubbleste wrote: »

When is a decision due by the planning authority?
Normally how long does it take?

That depends on the nature of the application, but I think it's usually within 2 months from submissions.

The information for this application is available here. There's no decision date mentioned and it appears that there was "further information" requested last week, so it may take a while.


Edit: Article in the galway independent on this - Request for further information on Tesco development

Doc Ruby

JustMary wrote: »

They are dearer for some things, for sure, but have excellent deals on some items. And a LOT more specialist lines too, that the others don't have.

You could say the exact same thing about Dunnes though. In terms of staples like meat and veg, my experience has been that Dunnes is consistently cheaper so it makes more sense for me to shop there. There's also plenty of small family shops doing Asian and other specialty goods at a higher quality and lower price than Tesco.

Really there isn't much to recommend it, to say nothing of its very unpleasant record in social responsibility.

antoobrien

Doc Ruby wrote: »

Really there isn't much to recommend it, to say nothing of its very unpleasant record in social responsibility.

And Dunnes support of the Apartheid regime in the 80s does?

Doc Ruby

antoobrien wrote: »

And Dunnes support of the Apartheid regime in the 80s does?

So did Tesco, and long after Dunnes stopped doing it.

More recently Tesco, only a few months ago, tried to abuse the intern system by hiring shelf stackers for christmas under the scheme, not to mention making a deliberate effort to circumvent Irish farmers and go to British farmers instead.

Now I'm sorry that the exotic delights, wonders and mysteries of Tesco are being denied to those who couldn't be bothered to drive three minutes down the road by the small minded parochials with a bag of spuds over the shoulder, but I don't think the area needs it.

No doubt this is a cause for many a post quivering with righteous indignation that such a magnificent institution should be denied its place within spitting distance of two other major shopping centres, but such is life.

ladhrann

snubbleste wrote: »

How do you know they are all objections? Given the high media profile nature of the project there could be a few submissions pro the development.

On the balance of probabilities one could make the assumption that the number of people so enthused about the construction of a generic hypermarket that they would type/print/post a submission and pay a statutory fee of E20 is negligible.

Mrs OBumble

Doc Ruby wrote: »

More recently Tesco, only a few months ago, tried to abuse the intern system by hiring shelf stackers for christmas under the scheme, not to mention making a deliberate effort to circumvent Irish farmers and go to British farmers instead.

Large businesses are, by nature, abusive - they are focussed on KPIs and profit making, not altruism and nationalism.

But when I look at how miserable-looking the staff are, on average Dunnes comes out far worse than Tesco. IMHO, of course.

inisboffin

JustMary wrote: »

But when I look at how miserable-looking the staff are, on average Dunnes comes out far worse than Tesco. IMHO, of course.

Particularly Dunnes in Westside, is someone bullying them there? Younger staff seem miserable.

Sponge Bob

Dunnes in Westside is and always was a kip. Nevertheless there is an OK one a mile away in nearly every direction and with nice and not particularly miserable staff so that is no matter really.

I find the customers in Dunnes Westside to be a particularly miserable and retarded bunch which may help explain matters somewhat and which may also explain why I avoided the place like the veritable plague since c.1980 something.

I find the staff in New Look are very nice but they won't sell me food no matter what I say to them.

However, as predicted in 2006, it has come to pass that "by 2012" "Tesco Needed Room To Expand"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfSi0D7KESk

antoobrien

Doc Ruby wrote: »

So did Tesco, and long after Dunnes stopped doing it.

More recently Tesco, only a few months ago, tried to abuse the intern system by hiring shelf stackers for christmas under the scheme, not to mention making a deliberate effort to circumvent Irish farmers and go to British farmers instead.

I've heard storeys from many retailers, big and small, that they can not get full time staff because people aren't willing to work for what is on offer, as they'll get more for working a 3 day week than a 5 day week. So instead of hiring one or two people, they've to higher 2 or 4. You might say so what they're only paying out an extra days wages, but there are other extra costs for hiring people - employers PRSI, payroll costs etc, so the overall situation for employers isn't easy either.

So given the levels of pay tesco are willing to pay people, the levels people are willing to work for and the levels of money available from social welfare I'm not at all surprised by this happening from the likes of Tesco or Currys (both of whom it has been reported have tried this). Coincidentally I've also heard of several small companies trying to abuse this because it's better than paying a temp to do it.

Besides Dunnes have a terrific record with the staff relations in all their Galway shops:rolleyes:. With the strikes every other year in terryland during the 90s I'm surprised it's still open.

But the real question in this portion of the debate is WTF does any of the above have to do with whether the shopping center should be built?

The customers clearly don't give a flying f**k or they'd be staying away in their droves, so let's try to keep the emotive rubbish lie this out of it as it really detracts from any valid points and makes you look rather desperate.

I'll make this plain, my interest in this project is purely academic, as I've no stake in it (from the other side of town an unlikely to use it unless I move to the area), but I believe that it will be a good thing for the area because it's my opinion that it will create jobs in the area.

Will the development increase overall traffic in the area?
I seriously doubt it - it's on the major East-West route from the West of the county. This road is already handling pretty much all the traffic from the west of county Galway anyways, so I don't see where the extra traffic will come from. In fact I believe it will redirect existing traffic to the shopping center i.e. people that don't want to go to Dunnes, Aldi or Joyces for whatever reason.

Will it increase traffic on certain roads in the area? It more than likely will as people that would have traveled to tesco (many of whom would use some part of SQR, hence my belief that the overall traffic won't increase) will probably end up coming in via the Rahoon Rd entrance.

Is it too big? It looks smaller than the new Dunnes anchored complex in Briarhill, so no it will not be too big.

Will it be too noisy - there have been answers about that regarding the operations of the Duness in Briarhill - where the warehouse side is beside (as in less than 10m from) housing. So no, it's not likely to be noisy.

Doc Ruby

JustMary wrote: »

But when I look at how miserable-looking the staff are, on average Dunnes comes out far worse than Tesco. IMHO, of course.

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I find the customers in Dunnes Westside to be a particularly miserable and retarded bunch which may help explain matters somewhat and which may also explain why I avoided the place like the veritable plague since c.1980 something.

Stay classy, sb.

antoobrien wrote: »

I'll make this plain, my interest in this project is purely academic, as I've no stake in it (from the other side of town an unlikely to use it unless I move to the area), but I believe that it will be a good thing for the area because it's my opinion that it will create jobs in the area.

Doc Ruby wrote:

Now I'm sorry that the exotic delights, wonders and mysteries of Tesco are being denied to those who couldn't be bothered to drive three minutes down the road by the small minded parochials with a bag of spuds over the shoulder, but I don't think the area needs it.

No doubt this is a cause for many a post quivering with righteous indignation that such a magnificent institution should be denied its place within spitting distance of two other major shopping centres, but such is life.

celty

How ridiculous.

A thread which is supposed to be about how suitable a planning application for a hypermarket is for the Rahoon Road has descended into comments about how miserable staff (and even customers) are of a nearby supermarket.

Why not come all out with totally ridiculous generaliations and say all the people of the Westside are miserable?

Really adding to the debate guys.

Meanwhile the real issue here is that a former FF Mayor got his ex-colleagues on the Council to rezone a site so that he could make a nice killing.

Even the city planners didn't think it was a good idea for the area last year.

But we don't want to talk about the real issues, do we?

antoobrien

celty wrote: »

But we don't want to talk about the real issues, do we?

Do you care to address some of the points I've raised then (original quote edit to highlight the questions):

antoobrien wrote: »

I'll make this plain, my interest in this project is purely academic, as I've no stake in it (from the other side of town an unlikely to use it unless I move to the area), but I believe that it will be a good thing for the area because it's my opinion that it will create jobs in the area.

Will the development increase overall traffic in the area?
I seriously doubt it - it's on the major East-West route from the West of the county. This road is already handling pretty much all the traffic from the west of county Galway anyways, so I don't see where the extra traffic will come from. In fact I believe it will redirect existing traffic to the shopping center i.e. people that don't want to go to Dunnes, Aldi or Joyces for whatever reason.

Will it increase traffic on certain roads in the area? It more than likely will as people that would have traveled to tesco (many of whom would use some part of SQR, hence my belief that the overall traffic won't increase) will probably end up coming in via the Rahoon Rd entrance.

Is it too big? It looks smaller than the new Dunnes anchored complex in Briarhill, so no it will not be too big.

Will it be too noisy? There have been answers about that regarding the operations of the Duness in Briarhill - where the warehouse side is beside (as in less than 10m from) housing. So no, it's not likely to be noisy.

Sponge Bob

I refer to my post from June 2011 in this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73067282&postcount=29

Sponge Bob wrote:

A Tesco in Westside would be a traffic disaster. Why not build one in that deep hole in Knocknacarra beside Dunnes and let them compete properly for a change

Most especially now We as in NAMA own that hole beside Dunnes since January

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I refer to my post from June 2011 in this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73067282&postcount=29

Care to elaborate on the why?

Sponge Bob

antoobrien wrote: »

Care to elaborate on the why?

I refer to my further post from July 2011 in this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73072709&postcount=33

Sponge Bob wrote:

The traffic will be lunatic as anyone with any sense knows, especially the residents.

Put it in the hole in Knocknacarra where the road network can deal with it and which is not residential, not off the SQR which will largely be bus lanes as we know.

It would be a good spot for a Biomedical Park/Day Clinics/Hostels for Long Stay Hospital Patients and their families etc/Charities linked to Medical Causes...Croí already have an office near Aldi. All of those uses even. The hospital campus is getting fairly full and an overflow campus is required.

poisonated

c_man wrote: »

Weren't Tesco originally located where Dunnes are in the Westside shopping centre back in the 80's? I'm almost 100% sure that's correct. If so, they have every right to come back to their land - just like the Israelis.

Would be very surprised if that were true as tesco only came into Ireland sometime in the late 90's

Sponge Bob

Eh, it is true, kinda. Dunnes Westside was a Tesco before Tesco came to Ireland.

They franchised their name to Albert Gubay and Westside was then built to house the Galway Tesco Franchise in the earlyish 1980s and opened as a Tesco.

H Williams bought Gubay out and went bankrupt soon after and Dunnes got it off their receivers then ( late 1980s) I think or was it a Crazy Prices at some stage???

In the early 1980s the Tesco chain was a generally fairly scummy UK version of an Aldi and based almost entirely in southern England and maybe Wales.

Tesco went way upmarket over the course of that decade and only really went National in the UK around 1990. I preferred Sainsburys myself, or Waitrose, for a long time.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

I refer to my further post from July 2011 in this thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73072709&postcount=33

As I've already said The road already carries the vast majority of traffic coming from the west of the county - it's already mental - which is a good reason to block this. I don't know where the extra traffic people seem to be talking about is coming from.

Can you explain that one please - or tell me if I'm reading the objections on this thread wrong?

Sponge Bob

The Tesco centre will attract even more traffic onto a road that was over capacity prior to redevelopment and which same road is guaranteed to be over capacity the day they finish the widening works whether they build anything on that site or not.

antoobrien

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The Tesco centre will attract even more traffic onto a road that was over capacity prior to redevelopment and which same road is guaranteed to be over capacity the day they finish the widening works whether they build anything on that site or not.

Thanks for making the nature of your objection clear.

From seeing what's happened in Briarhill, I don't think this is anywhere near as big a problem as is claimed it will be because it's traffic that's already using the roads in the area that's using the shopping center in Briarhill. I know a lot of people that used to go to Tesco/Dunnes Terryland are now going here instead.

Many of the issues I see with Briarhill is to do with the idiocy of the location of the entrance/exit - something I hope this is addressed if this project goes ahead.

I think we'll just have to disagree on the matter.

celty

antoobrien wrote: »

Thanks for making the nature of your objection clear.

From seeing what's happened in Briarhill, I don't think this is anywhere near as big a problem as is claimed it will be because it's traffic that's already using the roads in the area that's using the shopping center in Briarhill. I know a lot of people that used to go to Tesco/Dunnes Terryland are now going here instead.

Many of the issues I see with Briarhill is to do with the idiocy of the location of the entrance/exit - something I hope this is addressed if this project goes ahead.

I think we'll just have to disagree on the matter.

Anto,


Briarihill is at least at the edge of the city near a dual carriageway and motorway and not right next to houses. The proposed Tesco is in the middle of an old residential area with narrow streets where the traffic is, as others have said, already mental.

My issue with this is the rezoning, without proper planning. It just so happens that an ex-Councillor happens to have a site of this size and managed to get his buddies to rezone it.

It was never part of any long term strategic plan for the city.

If there was a Galway Outerbypass a new 'hypermarket' on the west side of the city might be a good idea, if it was properly pre-planned with road access, parking, etc. I don't think the proper long term planning (future housing and traffic needs) was ever factored into this project.

Those of us who use the SQR each day know the area is already a nightmare at peak traffic times. It remains to be seen if the revamp makes any difference after a year and a half of roadworks and this project wasn't even considered or on the cards when the revamp began.

It will, as others have said, drag customers away from the city centre and maybe even force the closure of the Westside SC nearby.

The idea of locating a Tesco on the WDR near Dunnes is, I'd imagine, a non-runner as I'd imagine Dunnes have some sort of exclusivity deal for that area.

Sponge Bob

celty wrote: »

The idea of locating a Tesco on the WDR near Dunnes is, I'd imagine, a non-runner as I'd imagine Dunnes have some sort of exclusivity deal for that area.

They might have had one with the Moritz Group but they certainly won't have any such deal with NAMA who are looking for €300m off the developers.

antoobrien

celty wrote: »

Anto,


Briarihill is at least at the edge of the city near a dual carriageway and motorway and not right next to houses. The proposed Tesco is in the middle of an old residential area with narrow streets where the traffic is, as others have said, already mental.

I agree the traffic is mental, I just think that the belief that this will make it worse is flawed.

DC is far busier than the SQR (the extra lanes make it look quieter), so traffic disruption should be greater. FYI the DC carries about twice the traffic (figures taken before the motorway opened, so likely higher), so it doesn't support that argument (expected capacities for SQR being about half of a DC). That tells me type of road that should be there, but this isn't the place to discuss that,

Dunnes may not in the middle of the houses, but it is right beside houses -take a look at a wider aerial view. You've got all of Doughuisce right beside it (judging by the census changes over the past 20 years, that's in the order of 4k-6k inhabitants on its own). The population of the Ballybaan electoral area is approx 12,250 - that's only 500 short of the combined population of the 5 electoral areas near/bordering this development (TH, Shantalla, Rahoon, Newcastle & Danagan). Throw in the Bearna & Knockncara areas (16k) and you get an idea of who might use this shopping center.

celty wrote: »

My issue with this is the rezoning, without proper planning. It just so happens that an ex-Councillor happens to have a site of this size and managed to get his buddies to rezone it.

It was never part of any long term strategic plan for the city.

No issue with that objection

celty wrote: »

If there was a Galway Outerbypass a new 'hypermarket' on the west side of the city might be a good idea, if it was properly pre-planned with road access, parking, etc. I don't think the proper long term planning (future housing and traffic needs) was ever factored into this project.

Again with the objection to hypermarket regardless of it's correctness. This development will be on the same scale or smaller than Duness in Briarhill.

celty wrote: »

Those of us who use the SQR each day know the area is already a nightmare at peak traffic times. It remains to be seen if the revamp makes any difference after a year and a half of roadworks and this project wasn't even considered or on the cards when the revamp began

I can be pretty sure the same objections were raised about Briarhill - Dunnes didn't cause it to get worse, just caused different problems because of where they put the entrance (it should never have gotten permission of that entrance imo).

celty wrote: »

It will, as others have said, drag customers away from the city centre and maybe even force the closure of the Westside SC nearby.

The first part I agree with, the second I seriously doubt. If the other Dunnes & joyces shops in the area haven't killed it off this one won't wither. Isn't the shopping center near the RAB in mervue still open - it'd have more to fear from a big multiple moving in nearby that westside would.

celty wrote: »

The idea of locating a Tesco on the WDR near Dunnes is, I'd imagine, a non-runner as I'd imagine Dunnes have some sort of exclusivity deal for that area.

Ah now come one, that kind of deal would break monopoly & competition guidelines.

fishy fishy

poisonated wrote: »

Would be very surprised if that were true as tesco only came into Ireland sometime in the late 90's

this is wrong.

yes, tesco was there long before Dunnes' was there. Tesco was the first supermarket to come into the westside of the city I think and it was in the 80's

fishy fishy

antoobrien wrote: »

Thanks for making the nature of your objection clear.

From seeing what's happened in Briarhill, I don't think this is anywhere near as big a problem as is claimed it will be because it's traffic that's already using the roads in the area that's using the shopping center in Briarhill. I know a lot of people that used to go to Tesco/Dunnes Terryland are now going here instead.

Many of the issues I see with Briarhill is to do with the idiocy of the location of the entrance/exit - something I hope this is addressed if this project goes ahead.

I think we'll just have to disagree on the matter.

no its actually not - it will be new traffic going down a residential road, including the delivery trucks, refridgerated trucks etc.

they might be better off leveling off the road and pathways from henry street into town - they are accidents waiting to happen, instead of thinking about putting yet more heavy traffic on a residential street all to be nice to their ff buddy.

antoobrien

fishy fishy wrote: »

no its actually not - it will be new traffic going down a residential road, including the delivery trucks, refridgerated trucks etc.

Like happens with the goods entrance at the back of Briarhill - as narrow if not narrower than Rahoon Road. Wasn't that site a factory before? Yes, it was and it had trucks and the like going in there. Non issue then.

Where does the submission say the goods entrance will be anyways?

fishy fishy wrote: »

they might be better off leveling off the road and pathways from henry street into town - they are accidents waiting to happen, instead of thinking about putting yet more heavy traffic on a residential street all to be nice to their ff buddy.

This has what to do with this development?

I'd be far more worried about maunsells rd than henry st getting extra traffic.

_Whimsical_

antoobrien wrote: »

Like happens with the goods entrance tat the back of Briarhill - as narrow if not narrower than Rahoon Road. Wasn't that site a factory before? Yes, it was and it had trucks and the like going in there. Non issue then.


I'd be far more worried about maunsells rd than henry st getting extra traffic.

The road at the back of Briar Hill is not a pedestrian corridor for a lot of small children making their way to and from a primary school. St Bride school in Shantalla finds its catchment area almost exclusively in the Rahoon area and Rahoon Rd is the avenue taken by most all of them on a daily basis. It's also a corridor for pedestrians from knocknacarra, rahoon, highfield etc for walking into town. It is a different area from the road youre referring too in Briar Hill unless I'm very much mistaken.

Like you Id also worry about Maunsells Rd attracting more traffic. It's already not a safe place to walk the length of as it leads out onto to Taylors Hill. Its also used be a lot of children going to primary and secondary schools. With no footpath in part that's already an accident waiting to happen. Attract more through traffic from Salthil residents going to Tesco and it'll be a death trap.

antoobrien

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

The road at the back of Briar Hill is not a pedestrian corridor for a lot of small children making their way to and from a primary school. St Bride school in Shantalla finds its catchment area almost exclusively in the Rahoon area and Rahoon Rd is the avenue taken by most all of them on a daily basis. It's also a corridor for pedestrians from knocknacarra, rahoon, highfield etc for walking into town. It is a different area from the road youre referring too in Briar Hill unless I'm very much mistaken.

Well if you were watching the discussion about the conversion of the Lynch RAB, several people claimed that there's a lot of pedestrian use in the area going to & from Parkmore.

However, more to the point, it does serve two schools - the new one (prefabs) in Doughiska & Briarhill.The one in Doughiska is new with only 1/2 classes (to my knowledge) so a lot of the kids still go to Briarhill.

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

Like you Id also worry about Maunsells Rd attracting more traffic. It's already not a safe place to walk the length of as it leads out onto to Taylors Hill. Its also used be a lot of children going to primary and secondary schools. With no footpath in part that's already an accident waiting to happen. Attract more through traffic from Salthil residents going to Tesco and it'll be a death trap.

And this is where I think there may be an increase in traffic, but not on the SQR.

Hell I'd make it a condition of planning that they upgrade the paths in the area, cos the council don't seem to give a crap about them.

Mrs OBumble

celty wrote: »

Anto,

Briarihill is at least at the edge of the city near a dual carriageway and motorway and not right next to houses. The proposed Tesco is in the middle of an old residential area with narrow streets where the traffic is, as others have said, already mental.

You are kidding, aren't you. Have you ever driven along the DC from Briarhill towards the motorway, and looked at al the houses on the right? Have you even driven down Doughiska Rd, with its population larger than some small towns?

celty wrote: »

and this project wasn't even considered or on the cards when the revamp began.

I seriously doubt that's true.