Council vote on new Westside Tesco

antoobrien

celty wrote: »

It remains to be seen if the revamp makes any difference after a year and a half of roadworks and this project wasn't even considered or on the cards when the revamp began.

This revamp is going on since september 2010. They're talking about the possibility of this since at least January 2011 as there was a vote in the council at that stage. So god know how ling it was with the council before then.

celty

JustMary wrote: »

You are kidding, aren't you. Have you ever driven along the DC from Briarhill towards the motorway, and looked at al the houses on the right? Have you even driven down Doughiska Rd, with its population larger than some small towns?


Mary, I'm not kidding. I know of course that Doughiska has grown hugely in recent years. What I mean is that the houses in Shantalla and Rahoon Road have been there long before this development was mooted and the roads structure in the area made no allowance for a 'hypermarket'.

I seriously doubt that's true.

Roadworks started in october 2010. First vote on this rezoning was January 2011. Are you saying that the City Council pre-empted a local authority vote, which their own officials opposed on pure planning grounds, before starting with the roadworks on the SQR? Come off it.

celty

antoobrien wrote: »

This revamp is going on since september 2010. They're talking about the possibility of this since at least January 2011 as there was a vote in the council at that stage. So god know how ling it was with the council before then.

Anto, the council's own planners opposed the rezoning of the timberyard in january and july 2011. Are you and Just Mary suggesting that they incorporated plans for a 'hypermarket' in roadworks which began in October 2010? Do they pre-empt their own decisions now? Even ones in which the elected councillors go against the wishes of officials?

Surely when the developer started work on the SQR they knew nothing about this 'hypermarket' plan?

celty

Quote:
Originally Posted by celty View Post
The idea of locating a Tesco on the WDR near Dunnes is, I'd imagine, a non-runner as I'd imagine Dunnes have some sort of exclusivity deal for that area.
Ah now come one, that kind of deal would break monopoly & competition guidelines.

Anto,

What I meant by this is that there is usually one 'anchor tenant' in any supermarket development. Therefore Dunnes would have an exclusivity deal for the site on the WDR road. I don't mean any other sites in the area, but no supermarket would move into a site if they thought rivals could build just as big or as bigger facility on the same site.

galwaycyclist

celty wrote: »

Anto, the council's own planners opposed the rezoning of the timberyard in january and july 2011. Are you and Just Mary suggesting that they incorporated plans for a 'hypermarket' in roadworks which began in October 2010? Do they pre-empt their own decisions now? Even ones in which the elected councillors go against the wishes of officials?

Surely when the developer started work on the SQR they knew nothing about this 'hypermarket' plan?

The roads layout serving the Higgins site has been in the drawings since 2007.

celty

I'm not for a minute suggesting there's any corruption in Galway, but I wonder if recent developments with publication of the Mahon Tribunal report will have any impact on this plan for Rahoon Road.

After all,

Councillors voted to rezone the site for a former colleague, an ex-FF Mayor. He said himself the rezoning would make it easier for him to get planning permission.

Councillors had to re-vote six months later when the first vote was deemed to be invalid (because a Councillor who was expelled from the meeting stayed in the chamber)

Officials were against the rezoning, deeming it unsuitable for the area, but were over-ruled by the Councillors.

Events of the past couple of days have thrown up quite a few questions over the whole planning process in this country. Not that I'm saying officials are always right and planners wrong ... far from it.

_Whimsical_

celty wrote: »

I'm not for a minute suggesting there's any corruption in Galway, but I wonder if recent developments with publication of the Mahon Tribunal report will have any impact on this plan for Rahoon Road.

After all,

Councillors voted to rezone the site for a former colleague, an ex-FF Mayor. He said himself the rezoning would make it easier for him to get planning permission.

Councillors had to re-vote six months later when the first vote was deemed to be invalid (because a Councillor who was expelled from the meeting stayed in the chamber)

Officials were against the rezoning, deeming it unsuitable for the area, but were over-ruled by the Councillors.

Events of the past couple of days have thrown up quite a few questions over the whole planning process in this country. Not that I'm saying officials are always right and planners wrong ... far from it.

Kind of couldn't help thinking along the same lines myself the last few days. It will be interesting to see if recent developments and the backlash will influence future county council business.

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

The roads layout serving the Higgins site has been in the drawings since 2007.

Following a query I was reviewing my files last night and it looks like my recollection was incorrect. In the drawings I have, the turning lane accessing the Tesco site appears in March 2010. An extra wide traffic island was present in one set of the 2007 drawings - I have excerpts from another 2007 design but not for that section so I don't know for sure what was in that.

Either way the road appears to precede the planning application.

what_traffic

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Following a query I was reviewing my files last night and it looks like my recollection was incorrect. In the drawings I have, the turning lane accessing the Tesco site appears in March 2010. An extra wide traffic island was present in one set of the 2007 drawings - I have excerpts from another 2007 design but not for that section so I don't know for sure what was in that.

Either way the road appears to precede the planning application.

You are correct. The 2007 road layout did not have this turning lane that will allow access to the Higgin's site at the Bothar le Cheile junction. The 2010 drawings have this addition (note - without arrow markings)

_Whimsical_

what_traffic wrote: »

You are correct. The 2007 road layout did not have this turning lane that will allow access to the Higgin's site at the Bothar le Cheile junction. The 2010 drawings have this addition (note - without arrow markings)

I'm slightly confused as to the exact relevance of this point. Does it mean that this road will go ahead regardless of an acceptance or refusal of Tescos application?Does it mean that the area was earmarked by the council as a large commercial site before tesco applied for planning permission there?

what_traffic

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

I'm slightly confused as to the exact relevance of this point. Does it mean that this road will go ahead regardless of an acceptance or refusal of Tescos application?Does it mean that the area was earmarked by the council as a large commercial site before tesco applied for planning permission there?

Confirmation of timelines. Section of Road being referred to is already built. Re your question: "Does it mean that the area was earmarked by the council as a large commercial site before tesco applied for planning permission there?" Yes

Sponge Bob

What was its zoning before the former FF mayor of Galway got his mates to rezone it?? It has been a semiderelict factory for 10 years which is not what I asked.

Jack_Plumber

what_traffic wrote: »

You are correct. The 2007 road layout did not have this turning lane that will allow access to the Higgin's site at the Bothar le Cheile junction. The 2010 drawings have this addition (note - without arrow markings)

Does anyone know what procedure / forum would have changed the road layout in this case.
This development appears to favour a contentious commercial development at the former O hUiginn lumberyard.
I have attached a drawing of the lane in question. It seems to me that this road to nowhere will be confusing and possibly dangerous.

snubbleste

You can email roads @ galwaycity.ie and ask them. Outline your extreme concern on the issue and demand an answer as a citizen.

what_traffic

Sponge Bob wrote: »

What was its zoning before the former FF mayor of Galway got his mates to rezone it?? It has been a semiderelict factory for 10 years which is not what I asked.

I think you already know the answer.
Did the Zoning not go from "I Zoning"(Enterprise, Industrial and Related Uses) to "CI Zoning"(Enterprise, Light Industry and Commercial Uses)

snubbleste

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

Does anyone know what procedure / forum would have changed the road layout in this case.
This development appears to favour a contentious commercial development at the former O hUiginn lumberyard.
I have attached a drawing of the lane in question. It seems to me that this road to nowhere will be confusing and possibly dangerous.

Did you write to the Council? Get an answer back?

snubbleste

It's been four months now and no decision yet.
http://gis.galwaycity.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=11312

Jack_Plumber

The fairly extensive request for Further Information was issued by the GCC Director of Services on 23/02/2012 and the developer has 6 months to present the required information.

Therefore, the next expected movement on this planning application is 23/08/2012.

snubbleste wrote: »

It's been four months now and no decision yet.
http://gis.galwaycity.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=11312

Early_Bounce

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

Therefore, the next expected movement on this planning application is 23/08/2012.

Not sure about that Jack_Plumber, it appears that the access lane to the site is already completed (see attached). It seems to me that this would appear to pre-empt a decision on the application.

dloob

Early_Bounce wrote: »

Not sure about that Jack_Plumber, it appears that the access lane to the site is already completed (see attached). It seems to me that this would appear to pre-empt a decision on the application.

That's not part of their planning application though.
From the submitted plans the entrance won't be at the lights anyway, it looks to be about half way along that lane.

snubbleste

Been over eight months now, I seek news!

_Whimsical_

snubbleste wrote: »

Been over eight months now, I seek news!

I think Nov 12th was mentioned as D day.

Funnily I noticed council workers on the road that joins Rahoon Rd and Seamus Quirke Rd a few weeks ago at 11am Sunday morning standing with clipboards and that large tripod thing they occasionally use. Someone else who saw them thought they were doing a traffic survey. I'd be highly disappointed if they were using a traffic survey done at 11am Sunday morning,although I couldn't say that's what they were doing.

Jack_Plumber

According to Galway City Council Planning web site an extension of time to reply to Further Information request until 22/11/2012.

see: http://gis.galwaycity.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=11312

Once the planners have received this information from the developer, then the planning authority has 4 weeks from the day the further information is received to make a decision on the application.

Early_Bounce

Just adding to what was mentioned above... I note on the Galway City Council website that if the requirement for further information is not complied with within 4 weeks Galway City Council shall refuse the application.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/Planning/MakinganApplication/FurtherInformation/

facebook.com/ConnachtTribune

Decision on €15m plan for Tesco 'hypermarket' in Westside due on December 19 after substantial further information on the proposal was submitted to City Hall in the past hour. See tomorrow's Galway City Tribune.

snubbleste

Decision Due Date: 12/01/2013

snubbleste

snubbleste wrote: »

Decision Due Date: 12/01/2013

Still waiting.

antoobrien

snubbleste wrote: »

Still waiting.

And will be for a while by the looks of it:

http://www.galwaynews.ie/29912-planning-deadline-extended-rahoon-development

Meanwhile, last week city planners requested that plans to build a Tesco on the site of the former T O hUiginn building to be scaled back.

In a separate planning application, they have requested clarification in relation to certain aspects of the supermarket development including internal road layouts.

This bit is not online but from this article

Regardless of their decision, an appeal to An Bord Pleanála is inevitable, so if eventually granted, it would probably not be built until mid-2015.

_Whimsical_

So letters are out letting us know that we can view the revised plans for the Tesco development and launch objections if we have any.

According to the letter I received the only serious revision is that the main entrance has been moved from Seamus Quirke Road to the new road that will run between Seamus Quirke Road and Rahoon Road. The back entrance onto Rahoon Road will remain as initially planned.

For me personally this plan is even worse than the first draft and addresses none of the points I objected on. Placing an entrance on a through road between SQ rd and Shantalla actively encourages customers to travel to the shop via Shantalla/Rahoon Road. Congestion on those small residential roads that have so much pedestrian traffic and that so many small children use to walk to school is not a good thing. Also it will make access to Highfield Park more difficult for residents and will completely change the nature of the area from Shantalla Road through Rahoon rd for residents.

Eeden

This was in The Guardian on 18 April 2013:

"Tesco now claims to be Ireland's leading grocer. No major new stores are planned as consumer spending has been hit by austerity measures. Tesco didn't open any hypermarkets there last year and only five small stores. Underlying sales slipped back 1% as austerity measures continue to bite."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/apr/18/tesco-empire-uk-and-beyond

So is it still going to be a Tesco, I wonder?

_Whimsical_

Eeden wrote: »

This was in The Guardian on 18 April 2013:

"Tesco now claims to be Ireland's leading grocer. No major new stores are planned as consumer spending has been hit by austerity measures. Tesco didn't open any hypermarkets there last year and only five small stores. Underlying sales slipped back 1% as austerity measures continue to bite."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/apr/18/tesco-empire-uk-and-beyond

So is it still going to be a Tesco, I wonder?

Well that is interesting!
I wonder either are they trying to get planning permission because land with permission would be easier to sell ? Then god knows what we would get stuck with in future. Certainly I doubt a Dunnes, Supervalu,Aldi or Lidl would be interested.

antoobrien

Eeden wrote: »

This was in The Guardian on 18 April 2013:

"Tesco now claims to be Ireland's leading grocer. No major new stores are planned as consumer spending has been hit by austerity measures. Tesco didn't open any hypermarkets there last year and only five small stores. Underlying sales slipped back 1% as austerity measures continue to bite."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/apr/18/tesco-empire-uk-and-beyond

So is it still going to be a Tesco, I wonder?

Tesco have also bought land in Briarhill (opposite Western Motors), the same question could be asked of the proposed development there.

Tesco know any development - if approved by GCC - will not go ahead until 2015 or so due to the expected raft of objections to ABP.

Eeden

antoobrien wrote: »

Tesco have also bought land in Briarhill (opposite Western Motors), the same question could be asked of the proposed development there.

Tesco know any development - if approved by GCC - will not go ahead until 2015 or so due to the expected raft of objections to ABP.

Do Tesco actually own the land in Westside, or is it still owned by Cllr O hUiginn?

antoobrien

Eeden wrote: »

Do Tesco actually own the land in Westside, or is it still owned by Cllr O hUiginn?

Not sure but the planning application for briarhill wasn't in Tesco's name either (I know that there were several houses bought for the development for large amounts of money), so I wouldn't be surprised if there's a conditional agreement there to buy the land.

_Whimsical_

A successful High Court challenge by a former Mayor against a vote on the rezoning of land off the Seamus Quirke Road for a new Tesco supermarket cost Galway City Council just under €130,000, it has emerged.
City councillor Peter Keane – who is a solicitor by profession – said he was “flabbergasted” by the bill for €129,257, which will have to be footed by the taxpayer.
See the full details, including the history to the controversy, in tomorrow's Galway City Tribune

From the City Tribune fb.

I can't get a hold of it this weekend so I don't know any further details. If anyone has read the article maybe fill us in ?

Sounds a bit dodgy.

antoobrien

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

From the City Tribune fb.

I can't get a hold of it this weekend so I don't know any further details. If anyone has read the article maybe fill us in ?

Sounds a bit dodgy.

There's an article online but it doesn't mention the court case, just that they reduced the total floorspace by 8% and made various changes based on residents concerns.

I'll have a look at the paper when I get home and let you know if there's any mention of the case.

Mrs OBumble

Eeden wrote: »

Do Tesco actually own the land in Westside, or is it still owned by Cllr O hUiginn?

You mean ex-Cllr?

Eeden

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

You mean ex-Cllr?

Yeah, sorry. I did mean ex-Cllr. Couldn't remember how to spell Micheál and got a bit lazy...

antoobrien

_Whimsical_ wrote: »

A successful High Court challenge by a former Mayor against a vote on the rezoning of land off the Seamus Quirke Road for a new Tesco supermarket cost Galway City Council just under €130,000, it has emerged.
City councillor Peter Keane – who is a solicitor by profession – said he was “flabbergasted” by the bill for €129,257, which will have to be footed by the taxpayer.
See the full details, including the history to the controversy, in tomorrow's Galway City Tribune

From the City Tribune fb.

I can't get a hold of it this weekend so I don't know any further details. If anyone has read the article maybe fill us in ?

Sounds a bit dodgy.

The article is on page 2 - separate from the main one. The original vote was ruled invalid by the high court because Catherine Connolly had been expelled from the meeting before the vote but still voted. The high court ruled that because she voted the vote was void, so it would have to be retaken and awarded 2/3 of costs to O'hUigin (who took the case to the high court).

_Whimsical_

antoobrien wrote: »

The article is on page 2 - separate from the main one. The original vote was ruled invalid by the high court because Catherine Connolly had been expelled from the meeting before the vote but still voted. The high court ruled that because she voted the vote was void, so it would have to be retaken and awarded 2/3 of costs to O'hUigin (who took the case to the high court).

Thanks Antobrien. That sounds a bit less dodgy then I suppose if costs were awarded to him by a court.

Harps

Planning application re-submitted this week..

Jack_Plumber

I have been taking a look at recent correspondence concerning the planning proposal for the former O’Higgins Lumberyard on Rahoon Road/Seamus Quirke Road (11/312, the proposed Tesco development).
…I am wondering if anyone might have any insights into the appropriateness of an exchange that has come to light between owners of the Westside Business Centre and Galway City Council….
Cormicans own the Westside Business Centre on Seamus Quirke Road opposite Dunnes Stores (where IN Kitchen, A/D Carpets, Westside Cycles and other are located). The Cormicans have written to the Planning Office (23/05/2013). Their letter concerns a meeting in June 2006 with officials from the Transport and Infrastructure Department to discuss the provision of direct access road from Westside Business Centre to the Seamus Quirke Road.
Given the planned developments for the SQR, the Senior Engineer advised Mr Cormican to act with the owner of the adjacent lands, Mr M Ó hUiginn, to propose a shared access route for both properties to the Seamus Quirke Road (‘I have had separate meetings with both yourself and Mr M O’hUiginn regarding the City Councils view on the matter. At such meetings it was indicated by the City Council that both parties should work together to develop the preferred solution’).
Those familiar with the Seamus Quirke Road will know that a ‘blank’ lane has been added to the inbound route on the Seamus Quirke Road at the Bóthar Le Chéile junction (near McDonalds).
I am wondering if City Council has overstepped their authority in directing a planning application?

antoobrien

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

Given the planned developments for the SQR, the Senior Engineer advised Mr Cormican to act with the owner of the adjacent lands, Mr M Ó hUiginn, to propose a shared access route for both properties to the Seamus Quirke Road
.
.
I am wondering if City Council has overstepped their authority in directing a planning application?

The advice could have been given as part of pre-planning consultation, which is a normal part of the planning process. I don't see anything untoward there.

Jack_Plumber

Planning permission has been granted for application 11/312 (06/06/2013).
This permission is conditional and City Manager's Order 63373 sets out 30 conditions.

what_traffic

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

Planning permission has been granted for application 11/312 (06/06/2013).
This permission is conditional and City Manager's Order 63373 sets out 30 conditions.

Any conditions of NOTE amongst that 30?

snubbleste

I, for one, welcome our new Tesco overlords.

Das Kitty

Any chance of Tormey's setting up a stall that side of the river too? Then I'd never need to go to the Galway shopping Centre again.

antoobrien

Jack_Plumber wrote: »

This permission is conditional and City Manager's Order 63373 sets out 30 conditions.

I don't see any reference to this on the planning enquiry tool, how can we view that information?

Jack_Plumber

antoobrien wrote: »

I don't see any reference to this on the planning enquiry tool, how can we view that information?

Hi antoobrien,
Try this link:
http://gis.galwaycity.ie/ePlan/InternetEnquiry/rpt_ViewApplicDetails.asp?validFileNum=1&app_num_file=11312

Then scroll 2 screens down to the section entitled 'Decision'. If this doesn't come up trumps, then take a look at the attachment. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to shed any light on the conditions.

Fey!

Considering that the council built the entrance to this site off New Seamus Quirke Road last year (section covered with plastic and gravel near the Maxol), and neither planner John Doody or senior executive engineer Mr. McElligott would reply to correspondance about it (May 2013 and May 2012 respectively), there was never any doubt that this would be approved?

Considering how long that roads project went on for from proposal to completion, how was an entrance to this site ever even in the plan?