Gamsat 2012

StanC

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

Congrats on the high GAMSAT score. I was just wondering what draws you to UL considering you have your pick of the colleges? Just to play devils advocate for discussion;

-They have an unfinished med building
-They have no cadaver labs
-They dont do biochemistry
-They dont do pharmachology
-The face to face teaching time is a lot less than other colleges yet the fees are the same. why pay as much to teach yourself?
- The teaching hospitals are not as good as the other colleges and the GP practices are miles away from campus
- Arguably they are looked down on by other colleges
- To combat the point someone made above I was told by one ortho consultant and one cardiac SPR that I should not go to UL if I wanted a serious medical career in a hospital. why put yourself at a disadvantage?

Like i said Im just playing devils advocate but I find it hard to understand how someone with the pick of any college they wanted would rationally choose UL?

Hi Reality Check, sure I don't mind listing a couple of things.

I did my undergraduate degree in Trinity College and graduated top of my class with a very high 1.1 and am a Dub, so I guess staying in RCSI or UCD would have made sense, however I am drawn to Limerick because I like the PBL approach-plain and simple.

I think it's a personal choice where you want to go and arguably pros and cons apply to each course. I like UL, I got a good vibe on the open days, I like the city and the campus. That's what I based my choice on. The course will be tough no matter where one goes.

To me all those things listed seem trivial. It's a Graduate Medicine course that appeals to me.I think RCSI is great, UCD is great and UCC is class too. I would have been happy going to any of the colleges but UL edges it.

The GAMSAT scores do impact on peoples choices I know but if you want RCSI or UCC/UCD then just put them down. Points can change and who knows what way they will go this year. I'd be shocked if 56 didn't get everyone in somewhere.

boynesider

My friend has just told me that he got 58 without doing a minutes study for the exam and coming from a non-science background.

Is this plausible or is he lying? I don't believe him

dmccormack01

boynesider wrote: »

My friend has just told me that he got 58 without doing a minutes study for the exam and coming from a non-science background.

Is this plausible or is he lying? I don't believe him

Its possible, but unlikely. i got 56 with 2.5 months good study, and hadnt done science since JC/ LC physics in 03. It took me that amount of time to even begin to get up to scratch on the science section (principles and understanding what some of the words even meant) and even then i still hadn't scratched the surface.

But the gamsat science is about understanding the principles and using them to solve a puzzle presented in a science format, as how much can they really ask when you only have 1min 30 secs to answer each question.

Gordonia

boynesider wrote: »

My friend has just told me that he got 58 without doing a minutes study for the exam and coming from a non-science background.

Is this plausible or is he lying? I don't believe him

It's possible, but if you don't know what he got in the individual sections. He may have got a score in the low 40s for the science sections and compensated with the other sections.

boynesider

Yeah he said he was in the top 1 percent for Sections 1 and 2 and a little bit below average for the science part.

The eejit has only applied for the Dublin colleges though so he is unlikely to get in anywhere. But I suppose if he can do that well without studying he could get a massive score next year if he put a few months work into it

ericm84

Maybe its my eternal pessimism but just looking at the curve again there.....I'm sitting on a 56 which only looks like about 72nd percentile. Can't find last years curve so dont know how it compares

Given this and the fact that I think there will be an increase in applications from the UK (i think the big secret of the easy way to med school in Ireland for UK grads is out at this stage + the fact that UK gov are cutting funding for grad med courses (heard this somewhere....could have been on New Media Medicine, but can't find a link so not 100% sure on this)) I would be fearful that points will rise again this year.

I think the points have been so up and down over the past few years its nigh on impossible to predict that you will get a place (unless you're one of those sitting on a 69!!)

I reckon for those on 54-57 it'll be an anxious 2 months wait.

CiMaster

Biologic wrote: »

Hi CiMaster,

I'd actually class the year in Blanchardstown as a positive thing for RCSI. We really do have the hospital to ourselves. If you want to pop over to the A&E to practice some clinical skills, you can. Some of the medical/surgical tutors will run the tutorials on the wards they cover, so you're learning on real patients. The parking is free and the staff canteen has decent, cheap food. Also, most of the specialties in Blanch run teaching sessions aimed at Junior doctors which we can attend (and get free food at). I haven't heard many people complain about the commute. Mostly you're going against traffic, but it might be bad going home around 5 o'clock. Lastly, the RCSI building there has everything we need (same as the Sandyford building, but nicer).
The gym in Stephen's Green is fine. It has all the essentials and isn't crowded. There's showers, a squash court, an indoor basketball/hockey court and the sports clubs train in Alsaa I think.
From what I understand, RCSI year 1 is a little more intense than the other courses. I've talked to a few people from UCD and they agree. We don't get much contact with other years/courses because we're out on our own in Sandyford/Blanch, and it's a lot of work. This can be a good or bad thing. I personally had done enough farting around in my undergrad and was happy to put the head down. This setup means you get to know your class inside-out too. Others may prefer the campus feel to UCD and, as much as it pains me to say it, better social life. Don't get me wrong, our class goes out a lot and there's no shortage of volunteers to go to the pub, but UCD do seem to have more free time.
Hope that helps,
Bio

Thanks Bio, think my mind is made up on RSCI I Completely agree with StanC that all the colleges have something unique to offer, and its just trying to find the best fit for you. My Mam txt me yesterday saying 'my nurse friend said UCD is better for teaching and RCSI is elitist' I just had to laugh. Everyone has an opinion! At the end of the day i'm just incredibly grateful someone somewhere is giving me the opportunity to be a doctor! Roll on Septmeber!

insanity50

boynesider wrote: »

Yeah he said he was in the top 1 percent for Sections 1 and 2 and a little bit below average for the science part.

The eejit has only applied for the Dublin colleges though so he is unlikely to get in anywhere. But I suppose if he can do that well without studying he could get a massive score next year if he put a few months work into it

tell him to log onto his cao application and add ul to it, it's not too late yet.

he has a great chance of getting dublin with 58, and will definitely get ul with 58.

Biologic

CiMaster wrote: »

Thanks Bio, think my mind is made up on RSCI I Completely agree with StanC that all the colleges have something unique to offer, and its just trying to find the best fit for you. My Mam txt me yesterday saying 'my nurse friend said UCD is better for teaching and RCSI is elitist' I just had to laugh. Everyone has an opinion! At the end of the day i'm just incredibly grateful someone somewhere is giving me the opportunity to be a doctor! Roll on Septmeber!

Glad to hear it, I'm sure you'll love the place. I don't know where people get these misconceptions about RCSI being elitist seeing as our tutors over the past 2 years have been trained at UCD, Trinity, RCSI, Mauritius and beyond.

Flange/Flanders

ericm84 wrote: »

Maybe its my eternal pessimism but just looking at the curve again there.....I'm sitting on a 56 which only looks like about 72nd percentile. Can't find last years curve so dont know how it compares

Given this and the fact that I think there will be an increase in applications from the UK (i think the big secret of the easy way to med school in Ireland for UK grads is out at this stage + the fact that UK gov are cutting funding for grad med courses (heard this somewhere....could have been on New Media Medicine, but can't find a link so not 100% sure on this)) I would be fearful that points will rise again this year.

I think the points have been so up and down over the past few years its nigh on impossible to predict that you will get a place (unless you're one of those sitting on a 69!!)

I reckon for those on 54-57 it'll be an anxious 2 months wait.

If I can remember, 56 (which is my score as well) was around the 60th percentile last year. Scores are down on last year. That said, I dont know anything about UK applicants so you've hit my nerves a bit now!! Roll on August and hopefully offers for all!!

cliona88

I wouldn't be too worried about UK applications. They would have had to go through the cao and the numbers for that are about the same as last year. Haven't had time to reply to all the advice some of you gave me about my score of 53, thanks so much. I think I'd be apprehensive about turning down a place in UL, as anything could happen next year. Banks could refuse to give loans, or gamsat scores could skyrocket. I'd hate to miss the opportunity to study medicine altogether

Joe2011

ericm84 wrote: »

Maybe its my eternal pessimism but just looking at the curve again there.....I'm sitting on a 56 which only looks like about 72nd percentile. Can't find last years curve so dont know how it compares

Given this and the fact that I think there will be an increase in applications from the UK (i think the big secret of the easy way to med school in Ireland for UK grads is out at this stage + the fact that UK gov are cutting funding for grad med courses (heard this somewhere....could have been on New Media Medicine, but can't find a link so not 100% sure on this)) I would be fearful that points will rise again this year.

I think the points have been so up and down over the past few years its nigh on impossible to predict that you will get a place (unless you're one of those sitting on a 69!!)

I reckon for those on 54-57 it'll be an anxious 2 months wait.

I wouldn't be quite as pessimistic as that. I don't think there was ever any big secret about the cao system in the UK. The main deterrent is the cost of fees here. Although the fees for undergraduate medicine have risen to roughly £9,000, as far as I am aware, the fees for graduate entry in the UK have remained the same.(roughly £3,000).
Also, in relation to your score of 56, if you look carefully at the graph or even use a ruler, this is closer to the top 25% than it is to the top 28%. Last year, a score of 56 was bang on the top 30%, so that puts you in a much better position on this year's graph.

GOING4BROKE

Sitting on a 56 as well. IF offered UL I will snatch it with both hands, feel fortunate to get a second chance at this after a completely non related first degree. No science background at all and know first year will be tough but going to go at it. I find it very hard that a college would a adopt a 10% fail rate as a rule, more hear say. I hope the numerous experts on colleges/gamsat/teaching styles can can bring this expertise to the field of medicine.

Stephan Grundy

If I recall correctly, the highest final cut-off RCSI has ever had was 63 at the end of the day, and last year's was 59 (these numbers are from their own website, I think); UCD has, I believe, tended to run about the same (last year their low score was 59, but not all 59's got in; they selected the lucky ones at random. If everyone put RCSI or UCD as their top choices, the top 91-2% or so would get in this year (assuming that the figure of 700 applicants is roughly correct - some won't actually be applying until next year; others will have sat on their scores since last year, but I'd say the numbers there will cancel out). Except, looking at the final cut-offs and the curves from previous years, there's obviously always a fair number of people in the upper percentage brackets who prefer UL's more experimental (and, I have the impression, long-term patient-care focused?) Think I read something about following a pregnant woman and someone with a chronic condition for at least a year?) approach, or who prefer Cork (and why don't people seem to talk about Cork much? Anyone out there know much about Cork?).
Given that scores overall and numbers are lower this year, I'd guess that everyone with 60 or above is very likely to get a placement they want, and just about everyone who's posted here is likely to get a placement - it's really around 58-59 that the nervous sets in for those who are hoping for one of the Dublin universities, because it basically depends on how many people with scores above 60 wanted to go elsewhere as their first choice. But I would say that if you're in the high fifties, your odds of getting a Dublin university are measurably better this year than last, between the actual scores and the numbers of applicants both dropping - those scores are just worth more this year than last, so be of good cheer.
I myself am still waffling between RCSI (probably still my top choice at this stage), UCD, and UL, but since I won't be starting this year, that's one more place open for one of the rest of ye. And many thanks, both directly and in advance, for those who have shared and will share their experiences and opinions at the different universities - anyone can hire a good website designer and put their best face forward at Open Day, but it's the day-to-day, long-term experiential information that's sheer gold!

declanmoffit

Stephan Grundy wrote: »

If I recall correctly, the highest final cut-off RCSI has ever had was 63 at the end of the day, and last year's was 59 (these numbers are from their own website, I think); UCD has, I believe, tended to run about the same (last year their low score was 59, but not all 59's got in; they selected the lucky ones at random. If everyone put RCSI or UCD as their top choices, the top 91-2% or so would get in this year (assuming that the figure of 700 applicants is roughly correct - some won't actually be applying until next year; others will have sat on their scores since last year, but I'd say the numbers there will cancel out). Except, looking at the final cut-offs and the curves from previous years, there's obviously always a fair number of people in the upper percentage brackets who prefer UL's more experimental (and, I have the impression, long-term patient-care focused?) Think I read something about following a pregnant woman and someone with a chronic condition for at least a year?) approach, or who prefer Cork (and why don't people seem to talk about Cork much? Anyone out there know much about Cork?).
Given that scores overall and numbers are lower this year, I'd guess that everyone with 60 or above is very likely to get a placement they want, and just about everyone who's posted here is likely to get a placement - it's really around 58-59 that the nervous sets in for those who are hoping for one of the Dublin universities, because it basically depends on how many people with scores above 60 wanted to go elsewhere as their first choice. But I would say that if you're in the high fifties, your odds of getting a Dublin university are measurably better this year than last, between the actual scores and the numbers of applicants both dropping - those scores are just worth more this year than last, so be of good cheer.
I myself am still waffling between RCSI (probably still my top choice at this stage), UCD, and UL, but since I won't be starting this year, that's one more place open for one of the rest of ye. And many thanks, both directly and in advance, for those who have shared and will share their experiences and opinions at the different universities - anyone can hire a good website designer and put their best face forward at Open Day, but it's the day-to-day, long-term experiential information that's sheer gold!

very well put!

boynesider

So the general consensus seems to be that at worst points will stay the same and at best there will be a slight drop?

I hope so anyway. I have a 57 and I really want UCD because of proximity, so would it be fair to say I have an outside chance?

If I don't get it and am offered UL I will be facing a bit of a quandary. I'm fairly confident that I could improve my mark a fair bit if I put some serious study in next year and be nearly certain of a place in Dublin, but if I'm presented with an opportunity to do what I want to do so badly, I would have to be crazy to turn it down.

Anyway, I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in thinking a 57 will get UL. There will be a lot of unpleasant shocks for people if it doesn't though

cliona88

Hey guys, does anyone know if there is an option to defer a course offer like they have for undergraduate courses?

Joe2011

It can be done in Cork or UCD if they deem that you have a valid reason to defer. Apparently UL are very reluctant to allow it and im not sure about RCSI

Podoc

Hey all,

I’ve just read through some of the previous pages and was shocked to see so many iditos bashing UL.

Scanning the muck of opinions, one can broadly categorise the UL criticisms into 2 groups:

GAMSAT Scores: People are obsessed with these (!) and seem to directly equate these scores with the standards of education at the Universities. True, UL has lower GAMSAT requirement, but it also has twice the number of places of other schools so it makes sense that this is so. Moreover, Dublin schools have a bigger population to feed which also helps push up its scores.

PBL: This is a 100k GRADUATE entry programme being discussed. Universities are therefore right to assume that those students who have enrolled in it are among the most focused/motivated of all their students, are the most eager for a challenge and are the most likely to appreciate/benefit from a more independent form of education (if only ALL schools at all stages were as exciting as this). UL has simply acknowledged this and embraced it by adopting the most student centered approach possible. In this sense it mimics the real world where one will have to face and solve problems based on one’s own hardwork/research etc. You’re not spoon fed in the real world so why learn this way. It may be tough, but as with everything in life those who learn based on their own sweat will be better than those who are spoon fed. (The whole Will Hunting ‘education you could have got for a dollar fifty in lay charges’ might work here). People who drop out most likely entered the programme without having giving it sufficient thought and didn’t adequately prepare themselves for the challenge. This has nothing to do with the university’s standard of education.

Finally, all (good) schools understand that student centered education is the best method of education. In fact it’s even encouraged by the General Medical Council. Take a look at the UK and US giants and you’ll see that this form of education is at the centre of their education programme. They are largely PBL in all but name anyway.

All the above, coupled with the fact UL has by far the best campus of any Irish university and spends an absolute fortune on its grad med course, is why UL is a great place to receive an education. People who view it as a back-up or as an ‘at least I got UL’ really need a kick up the backside. To summarise, think for yourselves for once. Don’t just blurt out inherited wisdoms. A major Irish university is not just churning out ‘half-doctors’…it just doesn’t happen that way.

Hopefully some of the above will register, but no doubt a dribble of glib comments will also follow…

insanity50

Podoc wrote: »

Hey all,

I’ve just read through some of the previous pages and was shocked to see so many iditos bashing UL.

Scanning the muck of opinions, one can broadly categorise the UL criticisms into 2 groups:

GAMSAT Scores: People are obsessed with these (!) and seem to directly equate these scores with the standards of education at the Universities. True, UL has lower GAMSAT requirement, but it also has twice the number of places of other schools so it makes sense that this is so. Moreover, Dublin schools have a bigger population to feed which also helps push up its scores.

PBL: This is a 100k GRADUATE entry programme being discussed. Universities are therefore right to assume that those students who have enrolled in it are among the most focused/motivated of all their students, are the most eager for a challenge and are the most likely to appreciate/benefit from a more independent form of education (if only ALL schools at all stages were as exciting as this). UL has simply acknowledged this and embraced it by adopting the most student centered approach possible. In this sense it mimics the real world where one will have to face and solve problems based on one’s own hardwork/research etc. You’re not spoon fed in the real world so why learn this way. It may be tough, but as with everything in life those who learn based on their own sweat will be better than those who are spoon fed. (The whole Will Hunting ‘education you could have got for a dollar fifty in lay charges’ might work here). People who drop out most likely entered the programme without having giving it sufficient thought and didn’t adequately prepare themselves for the challenge. This has nothing to do with the university’s standard of education.

Finally, all (good) schools understand that student centered education is the best method of education. In fact it’s even encouraged by the General Medical Council. Take a look at the UK and US giants and you’ll see that this form of education is at the centre of their education programme. They are largely PBL in all but name anyway.

All the above, coupled with the fact UL has by far the best campus of any Irish university and spends an absolute fortune on its grad med course, is why UL is a great place to receive an education. People who view it as a back-up or as an ‘at least I got UL’ really need a kick up the backside. To summarise, think for yourselves for once. Don’t just blurt out inherited wisdoms. A major Irish university is not just churning out ‘half-doctors’…it just doesn’t happen that way.

Hopefully some of the above will register, but no doubt a dribble of glib comments will also follow…

Well presented argument, however if you're not actually in the course I'd advise against offering your opinion on it, as you don't speak first hand which may mislead people.

EngDoc

Stephan Grundy wrote: »

If I recall correctly, the highest final cut-off RCSI has ever had was 63 at the end of the day, and last year's was 59 (these numbers are from their own website, I think); UCD has, I believe, tended to run about the same (last year their low score was 59, but not all 59's got in; they selected the lucky ones at random.

Actually...UCD's low score was 58, where people were chosen at random. Everyone with 59 and above were offered places.

I have a vested interest here, since I'm sitting on a score of 59 and for personal reasons don't want to leave Dublin!

Reality_Check1

Podoc wrote: »

Hey all,

I’ve just read through some of the previous pages and was shocked to see so many iditos bashing UL.

Scanning the muck of opinions, one can broadly categorise the UL criticisms into 2 groups:

GAMSAT Scores: People are obsessed with these (!) and seem to directly equate these scores with the standards of education at the Universities. True, UL has lower GAMSAT requirement, but it also has twice the number of places of other schools so it makes sense that this is so. Moreover, Dublin schools have a bigger population to feed which also helps push up its scores.

good to have some proper discussion on this. OK UL has 90 EU places and UCD has 75 - hardly double the number in fairness. And saying the dublin schools have a bigger population is kinda irrelevant considering that its med school and Ireland is a small place for all intents and purposes everywhere is relatively close. People want to go to Dublin schools because they are better for reasons mentioned before thats the only reason the gamsat scores are higher.

PBL: This is a 100k GRADUATE entry programme being discussed. Universities are therefore right to assume that those students who have enrolled in it are among the most focused/motivated of all their students, are the most eager for a challenge and are the most likely to appreciate/benefit from a more independent form of education (if only ALL schools at all stages were as exciting as this). UL has simply acknowledged this and embraced it by adopting the most student centered approach possible. In this sense it mimics the real world where one will have to face and solve problems based on one’s own hardwork/research etc. You’re not spoon fed in the real world so why learn this way. It may be tough, but as with everything in life those who learn based on their own sweat will be better than those who are spoon fed. (The whole Will Hunting ‘education you could have got for a dollar fifty in lay charges’ might work here). People who drop out most likely entered the programme without having giving it sufficient thought and didn’t adequately prepare themselves for the challenge. This has nothing to do with the university’s standard of education.

bah PBL isnt student centered its cheap! the Irish government needed a way to have more junior doctors as cheap as possible. The fact of the matter is its not innovative or new its just cheap plain and simple. People that go to UL pay the same fees as other colleges and receive a fraction of the teaching time. what does the money go on then? oh yeah the med building that hasnt been built yet :rolleyes:

Finally, all (good) schools understand that student centered education is the best method of education. In fact it’s even encouraged by the General Medical Council. Take a look at the UK and US giants and you’ll see that this form of education is at the centre of their education programme. They are largely PBL in all but name anyway.

the best form of education? how is this so? what about the first UL grads that went to the hospitals with no pharmacology? im sure the consultants there thought they were educated better than all the other schools...

All the above, coupled with the fact UL has by far the best campus of any Irish university and spends an absolute fortune on its grad med course, is why UL is a great place to receive an education. People who view it as a back-up or as an ‘at least I got UL’ really need a kick up the backside. To summarise, think for yourselves for once. Don’t just blurt out inherited wisdoms. A major Irish university is not just churning out ‘half-doctors’…it just doesn’t happen that way.

really nice campus I'll give you that but who goes to med school for how nice the place looks? like I said before not that much has been spent on the course its a cheap fill gap that relies on student fees (or else the med building would be finished 5 years into the programme...

look nobody bashes UL for falsified reasons. Fact of the matter is if you go there you pay the same for a poorer education. I know some people down there will have a chip on their shoulder about this but its simply the facts. Unless ul sort out their fundamental problems the saying will still remain.

"if you really really want to do medicine go to UL.....as a last resort"

Reality_Check1

oh its also really annoying that people from Ul would come on here and try to present a false image of what med school is like there. fair enough defend your school Iv no problem with that but it annoys me to see you trying to encourage people into making the same mistakes you made

Jammyc

Damn, I saw a new post on this thread and thought "Great! Something interesting to read". Disappointed, I was.

I'm sorry but much of your post is opinion and you're perfectly entitled to your own, but I'm not buying it. Thanks, but no thanks.

insanity50

@jmamyc, realitydudes girlfirend is in UL.

What reason do you think he has to lie/falsify/present misinformation?

are you going to go to UL with your 65?

Jammyc

insanity50 wrote: »

@jmamyc, realitydudes girlfirend is in UL.

What reason do you think he has to lie/falsify/present misinformation?

are you going to go to UL with your 65?

Thats fair enough, but what I'm saying is he is often presenting his opinions on PBL as fact, when they are simply his opinions. I have no reason to think that he is falsifying anything and I'm sure he means totally well but it comes across as factual presentation of a negative opinion. I say this for many of his posts, not all, he has of course given insight into many aspects to be considered, but again I just find his post to be forceful of opinion.

UL will be my fourth choice, simply because it would be cheaper for me to attend a school in Dublin. The same reason is partly why I will be putting UCD above RCSI. No prestige/gut feeling/others opinions influencing my decision.

Reality_Check1

Sister is in UL lads not girlfriend.

Sorry Jammyc didnt mean it to come across as opinion I tried to keep it as factual as possible but I got side tracked a bit.

Considering less resources are needed for the PBL approach the fees should be a lot cheaper in UL than other colleges. the guy above like to use the Will hunting example "education you could have got for a dollar fifty". Its kinda ironic that in this instance the guy in the public library is paying the same as the college grad to teach himself

Stephan Grundy

I am a little surprised at the strong feelings against UL's PBL approach, as there does seem to be a significant movement towards PBL in the US and Canada. The reasons that are usually cited for this are that it is more likely to foster problem-solving and encourage a deeper understanding of both medical theories and their applications, and that it produces (or is at least hoped to produce) doctors with a greater appreciation for the humanity of their patients - ideally we all will still have loads of that when we finish our training, but, regrettably, there is a certain tendency among medical personnel to get so overwhelmed by information and stress that it is easy to see patients as diseases that sort of secondarily have people attached to them. While I think everyone would probably rather be treated by a cranky, but effective, SOB than a less capable hand-holder, the ideal is to combine maximum knowledge and skills with maximum ability to work with the patient as an individual person. Does Limerick provide both? That's a good question. People on this list have identified very specific fields in which Limerick compares unfavourably to the more traditional institutions, but have also pointed out the many upsides to their very progressive approach. I'm not sure how much water the, "PBL is cheaper for the university, so if the fees are the same, you're getting screwed" theory holds - to me, the real question is, "Which approach (or university) will make me the best possible doctor I can be at the end of it?", not "which university is making the highest profit factor off me?" I am, I think, comfortably situated for choice (unless next year's scores go up significantly higher than has yet been seen in this country), and I am still thinking quite seriously about UL...certainly greedy for any scrap of experienced advice anyone has about it and/or the other options.

Reality_Check1

I'm not actually sure how learning medicine from Wikipedia can give you greater appreciation for the humanity of your patients but im def not in a position to give anything other than an opinion. We have PBL in UCD too btw its kinda fun to put the knowledge you have learned in class to use in clinical cases. All (the majority) of our exams are presented to us in a clinical way too i.e. you learn the basic science in class but have to know how to apply it to patients. The thing that gave me the greatest appreciation for humanity was our scheduled patient visits where we go to someone who is chronically ill and they explain their situation and the difficulties they have with daily living. But I dont really think that's PBL or exclusive to PBL

As for which will make a better doctor I have no doubt that PBL is a good way to learn if you are a particular type of person. But its hard to imagine a graduate with no pharmacology, biochemistry or even something minor like cadaver experience would be better or even as good as someone with that knowledge.

markitzero

While I was studying for pharmacy much of the last two years was delivered via PBL. It was a good way of learning and the university has a very good reputation of producing effective, clinically minded graduates particularly in comparison to other schools. However, I think much of this is down to focus on clinical application of knowledge which is not exclusive to PBL.
It's a difficult one to try and determine which is best but I tend always to be skeptical of the 'all eggs in one basket' approach which seems to be the case in UL.
The only conclusive way to find out which is best is to see how graduates of all the colleges got on in their internships. Which is pretty difficult seeing that UL has only one cohort so far. But has anyone heard any feedback on the quality of graduates of the colleges in comparison to each other?