Gamsat 2012

j.mcdrmd

ULbound wrote: »

Hi guys
I've just finished 1st yr in UL and just thought I'd share my experience with you.

I have to say I love the UL pbl approach I found that you retained the info so much easier than from lectures. In first term we had some we'd with 7 lectures which made me very happy that I didn't do a lecture course!! I found that with pbl you make much more use of your time.
one of the best things about UL is that you get to know your class very well and there is always someone around who can help when you get stuck on something! Also the 2nd yrs where a great help to us. And we have plenty of nights out!
You get to know you pbl and clinical skills tutors very well and they are also a great source of help.

Don't get me wrong it's a tough course. But I don't think it's any tougher than the other GEM! If you want to be a doctor and are determined you can do it!

There's a Facebook group for incoming first year that you should check out if your interested in Ul

For those non-science ppl don't be afraid of Ul! There is plenty of help to get u up to speed on the science you need. I'd recommend if you have some spare time just read a bit about the cell and cell division as this was the most notably area of weakest for the first term.

This is confusing to be honest, it does not address the point raised about failure rates by Rafni at all.

To be fair I am having trouble comprehending this post so perhaps I am missing something.

Jammyc

j.mcdrmd wrote: »

This is confusing to be honest, it does not address the point raised about failure rates by Rafni at all.

To be fair I am having trouble comprehending this post so perhaps I am missing something.

I don't see the difficulty in reading the post.
Also, I'm not sure it was written to address anything, rather to share their experience.

cliona88

Jammyc wrote: »

I don't see the difficulty in reading the post.
Also, I'm not sure it was written to address anything, rather to share their experience.

Yeah I agree, I think it's a reassurance that it's not impossible. It speaks for itself really

j.mcdrmd

Jammyc wrote: »

I don't see the difficulty in reading the post.
Also, I'm not sure it was written to address anything, rather to share their experience.

I did have a difficulty with it, so we will have to agree to differ on that.

Sharing an experience at the end of 1st year GEM in UL without addressing the points raised by Rafni just does not make any sense to me.

People are making life changing decisions here and clarity is important.

Lame

Yikes, numbers posted by Rafni are insanely high if true. Can anyone else from UL confirm those numbers?

cliona88

Lame wrote: »

Yikes, numbers posted by Rafni are insanely high if true. Can anyone else from UL confirm those numbers?

I wouldn't say they're insanely high, i studied music as my undergrad and about one third of people had to repeat after every exam. I know there's money at stake but it's not an insanely high failure rate. There's just a greater risk when you do fail.

Jammyc

cliona88 wrote: »

I wouldn't say they're insanely high, i studied music as my undergrad and about one third of people had to repeat after every exam. I know there's money at stake but it's not an insanely high failure rate. There's just a greater risk when you do fail.

I agree. In Trinity last year, ~30% of 2nd year Science students had at least 1 repeat exam, if I remember correctly.

dmccormack01

i think most courses would prob have that sort of failure rate, but the main difference is that grad med isnt full of 18 and 19year old undergrads, away from home doing too much partying etc.

Everyone on the grad med course has been through the mill and the majority* would know what the deal is so i think its still a pretty high number, maybe people just under estimated how much work to put in during term time and weren't able to get away with the cramming sessions that most of us did at under grad!

j.mcdrmd

cliona88 wrote: »

I wouldn't say they're insanely high, i studied music as my undergrad and about one third of people had to repeat after every exam. I know there's money at stake but it's not an insanely high failure rate. There's just a greater risk when you do fail.

Why did you do music when what you wanted to do was medicine?

dmccormack01

j.mcdrmd wrote: »

Why did you do music when what you wanted to do was medicine?

I did architecture in ucd, tough to know what you want to do with your life when you have to fill out a form when your 17!

cliona88

j.mcdrmd wrote: »

Why did you do music when what you wanted to do was medicine?

You could ask that question of everyone doing graduate medicine. I wanted to do it at the time, and now I want to do medicine.

j.mcdrmd

cliona88 wrote: »

You could ask that question of everyone doing graduate medicine. I wanted to do it at the time, and now I want to do medicine.

That is fine, how much have you saved up for that then?

cliona88

dmccormack01 wrote: »

i think most courses would prob have that sort of failure rate, but the main difference is that grad med isnt full of 18 and 19year old undergrads, away from home doing too much partying etc.

Everyone on the grad med course has been through the mill and the majority* would know what the deal is so i think its still a pretty high number, maybe people just under estimated how much work to put in during term time and weren't able to get away with the cramming sessions that most of us did at under grad!

Yeah that's true. I guess a better comparison would be to a masters course failure rate. I didn't do a masters though so I wouldn't know. The majority of people in undergrad courses get through after repeat exams though. While it's a scary situation for repeats, it's doesn't have to be the end of the road.

cliona88

j.mcdrmd wrote: »

That is fine, how much have you saved up for that then?

I don't understand your question

j.mcdrmd

cliona88 wrote: »

I don't understand your question

You got a degree, either a 1st or a 2.1 at the tax payers expense in music.

You have changed your mind, the tax payer is not going to pay for that ,so you need to figure out how you will pay for it.

cliona88

j.mcdrmd wrote: »

You got a degree, either a 1st or a 2.1 at the tax payers expense in music.

You have changed your mind, the tax payer is not going to pay for that ,so you need to figure out how you will pay for it.

As long I get into medicine I'll be okay. My finances are in order.

Lame

cliona88 wrote: »

I wouldn't say they're insanely high, i studied music as my undergrad and about one third of people had to repeat after every exam. I know there's money at stake but it's not an insanely high failure rate. There's just a greater risk when you do fail.

In my undergraduate as well. But like others have mentioned, grad med courses tend to have very low failure rates. In most cases, dropping out is due to family issues/personal issues as oppose to struggling with the course.

Palo Alto

Eimz_T wrote: »

3rd of September with Orientation for non north americans on the 31st of August. Not sure about the Christmas Break but exams are before christmas.

Just checking you definitely mean the orientation date is for Non-North Americans and not North-Americans? Trying to sort what date I need to move down on, was thinking of 1/2 of Sept but will make it 29/30 August if the orientation date is for Irish students? Apologies for the confusion.

nailer23

the UCC orientation is the 31st of august for eu students but we will be having a get together the day before also..

going into second year and part of our peer support service

FB page for the class is https://www.facebook.com/groups/238966992870758/

Palo Alto

Oh great, thanks! Will be trying to get down on the 30th all being well

ULbound

Hi everyone sorry if i confused ppl. i just wanted to share my experience of UL with ye all to help give you as much info as possible. as i said i love the course.
yes we had a slightly higher failure rates this year than the other years. they grade the scripts on a standard curve (as do the other colleges) so therefore there is always a failure rate of 10-15% for summer exams but most of these ppl will get through the repeats. i personally don't know why we had higher rates this year. however UL in total have only lost a handful of ppl in their 5 years of teaching GEM and nearly all (i believe with only 1 exception) were for personal reason
if anyone has any questions about UL ask away and i'll try help

raftni

ULbound wrote: »

Hi everyone sorry if i confused ppl. i just wanted to share my experience of UL with ye all to help give you as much info as possible. as i said i love the course.
yes we had a slightly higher failure rates this year than the other years. they grade the scripts on a standard curve (as do the other colleges) so therefore there is always a failure rate of 10-15% for summer exams but most of these ppl will get through the repeats. i personally don't know why we had higher rates this year. however UL in total have only lost a handful of ppl in their 5 years of teaching GEM and nearly all (i believe with only 1 exception) were for personal reason
if anyone has any questions about UL ask away and i'll try help

that's definitely false.

in our year (first year) we had six people who were repeating from the year above.

two of them couldn't afford the twenty five grand repeat fees so left.
two were repeating for personal reasons.
two were repeating for failing exams and had to pay twenty five thousand each.
that also lost four other students who left for other reasons as there is only 90 in their class now. not sure how many they will lose after the upcoming repeats. it's reckoned we will lose at least 10 of the 29 who are repeating. we also lost a few students ourselves throughout the year.

the present fourth years also lost 7 students.

in the class that just graduated, 54 of 60 who started completed the degree.
i know one student failed second year twice and was kicked out of the school, probably with at least 100k in debts built up.

it's the reality of ul, it's tough but people should be aware of it before they go in.

jtsuited

ULbound wrote: »

Hi everyone sorry if i confused ppl. i just wanted to share my experience of UL with ye all to help give you as much info as possible. as i said i love the course.
yes we had a slightly higher failure rates this year than the other years. they grade the scripts on a standard curve (as do the other colleges) so therefore there is always a failure rate of 10-15% for summer exams but most of these ppl will get through the repeats. i personally don't know why we had higher rates this year.

I'll give you a hint....it starts with 'Gamsat Score of' and ends in '54'.

j.mcdrmd

ULbound wrote: »

Hi everyone sorry if i confused ppl. i just wanted to share my experience of UL with ye all to help give you as much info as possible. as i said i love the course.
yes we had a slightly higher failure rates this year than the other years. they grade the scripts on a standard curve (as do the other colleges) so therefore there is always a failure rate of 10-15% for summer exams but most of these ppl will get through the repeats. i personally don't know why we had higher rates this year. however UL in total have only lost a handful of ppl in their 5 years of teaching GEM and nearly all (i believe with only 1 exception) were for personal reason
if anyone has any questions about UL ask away and i'll try help

Thanks for that. You clearly passed and are delighted.

However, usually medical school classes are very tight knit groups, they have invested considerable time and energy just to get there and are dealing with serious stuff.

The majority of the people graduating over the last few years chose medicine when they could have chosen any career. At the height of the boom medicine looked like a daft choice, but they did it anyway. Now we have people running at it from all directions.

If Raftni's figures are correct (especially the latest ones) your group are in trouble I think. I would worry about that.

Failing exams as an undergrad is a pain in the neck, study over Summer, holiday plans wrecked etc. Failing Gem is a lot more stressful. Does anyone know what the colleges are doing about this?

Like Jtsuited I was wondering about a potential correlation between the 'unusually high failure rates' and the unusually low entry scores.

Expectations need to be managed here. Is the admission process rigorous enough? Is it fair to promise people their dream, take their money and then let them down?

Tazzle

raftni wrote: »

two were repeating for failing exams and had to pay twenty five thousand each..

Wowzers. Two people had to repeat from my year in UCC, it only cost around half fees. €6500~

Reality_Check1

ULbound wrote: »

they grade the scripts on a standard curve (as do the other colleges) so therefore there is always a failure rate of 10-15% for summer exams but most of these ppl will get through the repeats.

UCD don't as far as I'm aware - bit unfair to people to fail them for giving a right answer just because 10-15% of the class must fail

BarnhallBull

Sorry to interrupt all the pleasant chat about how many of us are going to fail, but...

This time next week we'll know where we're headed :eek:

Reality_Check1

Flange/Flanders wrote: »

Hmm, I got this email reply from a current first year student in UL....

"I did study physiology in XXX prior to the course, but I have been in PBL from week 1 with non-science students, and I can honestly say that it is NO major advantage having science as a background, especially after the first case (the ear), following which there is a lot of embryology, which NO science course covers. It is all about the work you are prepared to put in, and, after the Christmas exams, EVERYONE is on a level playing field, even if you compare anatomy phd students to commerce graduates. It is just about following the weekly learning objectives and covering the basics. There is plenty of support if you need it, especially from upper years in terms of notes, resources and tips.




There are some advantages to having done science, but in the PBL setting, everyone has an input, regardless of your background, you will definitely be able to contribute. Don't worry."

If thats the case Id encourage all non science people to go to UL so. Any science I had done previously that was remotely relevant was a MASSIVE advantage to me in UCD. Its just the small stuff you take for granted (especially in physiology and anatomy) that other people need to spend time going over.

FWIW there is a module you can take in semester 1 - it started off as organic chemistry but I think it has a bit of everything now. Highly recommend taking that class to bring you up to speed if you are lacking in the science department

Reality_Check1

BarnhallBull wrote: »

Sorry to interrupt all the pleasant chat about how many of us are going to fail, but...

This time next week we'll know where we're headed :eek:

none of you will fail dont worry - I keep saying its not difficult to pass just difficult to do well.

Bonnieaurstomp

Reality_Check1 wrote: »

FWIW there is a module you can take in semester 1 - it started off as organic chemistry but I think it has a bit of everything now. Highly recommend taking that class to bring you up to speed if you are lacking in the science department

It's called Molecules in Medicine. It's one of our optional modules, but if you are not coming from a science background, you have to take it. They cover a lot of stuff covered in our big first semester module, Molecular basis of life and disease, but at a slightly more basic level and before it is covered in the previously mentioned module. You also have several exams in it from a very early stage, but no final exam at the end of the semester as far as i'm aware. It's basically to give those with a non science background a chance to play catchup.

If you are from a science background and want an easy option, go with Social history of irish healthcare, and you have yourself a guaranteed A with very little work.