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Gamsat 2012

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15 SandraNiD


    You got a very poor score of 54 in the GAMSAT - barely scraping into GEM.
    I achieved a score of 70 in the GAMSAT.
    If I was you I'd concentrate on passing those exams you failed so badly instead of projecting your bitterness on the net.
    You are trolling.
    - From the "non drinkers group" forum.
    1 day 14 hours ago.
    No comment.

    not sure my personal issues in my life are any concern of yours especially that pertaining to your academics.

    My personal problems aren't the reason you got a 2.2 degree are they?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,073 ✭✭✭sam34


    Sandra and Einstein both banned for one week.

    Sandra for trolling and insulting posters, Einstein for dragging personal stuff into it after a warning earlier in the week to leave out the personal comments.

    note to all- we have a zero tolerance approach to trolling/insulting/winding-up etc.
    if you find yourself banned for this, don't come whinging about it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Sarah1379


    sam34 wrote: »
    Sandra and Einstein both banned for one week.

    Sandra for trolling and insulting posters, Einstein for dragging personal stuff into it after a warning earlier in the week to leave out the personal comments.

    note to all- we have a zero tolerance approach to trolling/insulting/winding-up etc.
    if you find yourself banned for this, don't come whinging about it.

    Thank you. That was becoming ridiculous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Bella84


    K, i'm an eejit, but can I ask what a troll is??!!

    Not getting involved and dont mean to fan the flames at all, just wanting a definition and then im happy!!!

    Anyone?

    That was a bit much, I'm sympathetic but there is such a thing as labouring the point.

    Back to the medicine part, does anyone else have Repetitive Strain Injury on their index fingers from using the calculator on your laptop to guess your scores and divide them by four over and over? Or is it just me?


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Sarah1379


    Bella84 wrote: »
    K, i'm an eejit, but can I ask what a troll is??!!

    Not getting involved and dont mean to fan the flames at all, just wanting a definition and then im happy!!!

    Anyone?

    That was a bit much, I'm sympathetic but there is such a thing as labouring the point.

    Back to the medicine part, does anyone else have Repetitive Strain Injury on their index fingers from using the calculator on your laptop to guess your scores and divide them by four over and over? Or is it just me?

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

    This is a troll ^^

    And yes. My mind is constantly running over the possibilities! "what's the lowest I can get in section (insert number here) and still get at least 60?!?"
    Ha. So futile though, there's no way to predict it or replicate the marking. Gah! I want my result Naow! Not that I'm being massively hopeful...


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  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Bella84


    how very informative!! Thanking you.

    Glad to hear it's not just me then :). One week down, seven to go.....

    Which college are you hoping to get into, Sarah?


  • Registered Users Posts: 206 ✭✭foreverandever


    Congrats to anyone who has done the Gamsat, I heard it's a really tough exam. I was wondering what is drawing everyone to medicine? The competition is getting so there may be a time when doctors aren't guaranteed a job, wages will be dropping and the life is so hard!


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Sarah1379


    Bella84 wrote: »
    how very informative!! Thanking you.

    Glad to hear it's not just me then :). One week down, seven to go.....

    Which college are you hoping to get into, Sarah?


    Hoping for UCD. Don't think I could handle UL because of the PBL. I'm a non science background. Would rather not travel to Cork. Although after that GAMSAT I reckon I'll be giving it another whack in September before I go anywhere! What you hoping for yourself? What's your degree in?


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Sarah1379


    Hmmm. Ignore the sadface. Wth? Stupid phone :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 28 Gordonia


    Hi

    Just a couple of points regarding the current First Years in UL being of a lower calibre than previous years:

    Firstly I would like to make the point that it is obvious when you start asking current Med students about their GAMSAT score, it actually means very little once you're in the door. I'm a current first year in UL and some of my classmates barely scraped in but have been absolutely flying it from the start. So most of us agree that a low score is practically irrelevant once you're in. On the other hand, others are struggling. But as far as I know, 10% is the expected number of fails in the Christmas exams and we were bang on target this year.

    The first few months are a very steep learning curve for all, and there's no reason that people who fail at Christmas can't make it up by summer (anyway the Christmas exams only represent one module out of 3: the science-based module).

    Secondly, it's not a straightforward science vs non-science arguement: there are many non-science students who have been doing very well since september, while there are science students who are struggling. Remember, a background in chemistry or physics is of little help when you're mostly learning anatomy. And the focus in this course is mainly on anatomy and clinical.

    My main point is, some of the best people in my class 'only' got 54 or 55 in Gamsat. While others who got exactly the same score (or more) are struggling. So it totally depends on the individual. We all have different ways of learning and we're all bringing different experiences to the course. However, the general consensus amongst many of my classmates is that the Gamsat's a bit of a farce (but a necessary farce) as it doesn't truely reflect how well you're going to do, either in the course or as a doctor.

    Feel free to pm me about the UL course


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  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭Flange/Flanders


    going on Sandras reasoning above, because we all didn't get the required points in leaving cert for medicine, then none of us deserve to do medicine now or none of us have the intellect to do medicine.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Bella84


    Gordonia wrote: »
    Hi

    Just a couple of points regarding the current First Years in UL being of a lower calibre than previous years:

    Firstly I would like to make the point that it is obvious when you start asking current Med students about their GAMSAT score, it actually means very little once you're in the door. I'm a current first year in UL and some of my classmates barely scraped in but have been absolutely flying it from the start. So most of us agree that a low score is practically irrelevant once you're in. On the other hand, others are struggling. But as far as I know, 10% is the expected number of fails in the Christmas exams and we were bang on target this year.

    The first few months are a very steep learning curve for all, and there's no reason that people who fail at Christmas can't make it up by summer (anyway the Christmas exams only represent one module out of 3: the science-based module).

    Secondly, it's not a straightforward science vs non-science arguement: there are many non-science students who have been doing very well since september, while there are science students who are struggling. Remember, a background in chemistry or physics is of little help when you're mostly learning anatomy. And the focus in this course is mainly on anatomy and clinical.

    My main point is, some of the best people in my class 'only' got 54 or 55 in Gamsat. While others who got exactly the same score (or more) are struggling. So it totally depends on the individual. We all have different ways of learning and we're all bringing different experiences to the course. However, the general consensus amongst many of my classmates is that the Gamsat's a bit of a farce (but a necessary farce) as it doesn't truely reflect how well you're going to do, either in the course or as a doctor.

    Feel free to pm me about the UL course


    I officially love u. Its totally ridiculous for a person to suggest that the results of one test define 4 years of ones performance in a degree. when I have a little more free time on my hands I'd love to pm you to find out more about the course if thats alright, Im very excited to get started! Cheers for the offer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 28 Gordonia


    Bella84 wrote: »
    Its totally ridiculous for a person to suggest that the results of one test define 4 years of ones performance in a degree.

    Exactly! There's so much more to this course than science anyway. Obviously the science is very important, but so is being a good communicator, having a good personality and a bit of cop-on. The science people in my class are fed-up with the non-science people moaning that they're at a huge disadvantage, because, frankly, by this stage of the course there's plenty of non-science people who could fool you into thinking they had done science all their lives. Most of my classmates are pretty sh1t-hot, regardless of background. And the high proportion of Canadians in the class who seems to have been groomed since birth to become doctors certainly keeps up on our toes too.

    And from the people I know who failed at Christmas, none of the ones I've had personal dealings with are idiots or slackers. Everyone works hard and everyone is smart. And you can see almost all of them becomming doctors, and good doctors at that. It just takes a bit longer for some people to get used to the system and the heavy workload of new material you have to keep up with on a constant basis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭Stephan Grundy


    Being an American, I have a lot of trouble with the Irish/UK undergraduate system where the final exams determine your entire future - it's a great system for someone who tests well, but is kind of lazy when it comes to day-to-day work, but unreasonably brutal on those who don't test well. The American education system has a great many running sores and deformities, but the value balance of daily work with tests is not, I think, one of them. And I do agree that the system is way too rigid if someone who just missed a 2.1, but could score very high on the GAMSAT, etc., cannot be considered for entrance (I also find it kind of annoying that my Ph.D. from Cambridge cannot even be considered as a possible factor - granted, my thesis was not in a subject related to medicine in any regards other than a little crossover with folk magic/healing; but having gained it does suggest a certain basic competence for intellectual work in general, right?).
    As for science and med school - I agree that one has to have at least a decent basic background in the sciences, particularly biology and organic chemistry, for med school. But there are many ways for a dedicated person to achieve this, especially given the excellent resources available on the Internet. I actually found the original ACER papers really helpful - not for the 2012 test, for which they were surprisingly useless (I got about 75% on SIII in the purple book under test conditions two weeks before GAMSAT, and was still left going "WTF?" by much of the actual SIII, because it was so different from any of the training materials) - but as a guide to the most important spread of basic science elements with which a med student should be reasonably comfortable. Which is why I was so shocked that they left out crucial knowledge like acids/bases, stereochemistry, etc., in this GAMSAT. I think the purple book's SIII was a much better guide to whether a candidate had the kind of basic preparation needed for med school. And I say this as the son of a doctor who taught med school for many years and has had no shortage of useful advice and preparation on what to expect in the courses for me.
    In any case, I am not applying to enter med school until next year (thank the gods, two more goes at the GAMSAT before then), and am, in the meantime, studying daily as if I were taking an accelerated pre-med course. Hopefully this will help me on the next GAMSAT; I know it will help me when I actually get in.
    The one thing about the GAMSAT that I do find realistic is its similarity to the practice of real medicine, particularly in emergency/stressful conditions - you never know what kind of problems might come up (and real life doesn't give you preparation guidelines; you can only learn as much as possible and hope for the best); you may be under huge time and/or psychological pressure; often you have to diagnose by ruling out options as much as by coming up with them; and much of the time, you have to wait an indefinite period to find out whether you cocked up or saved the day, *if* you ever really find out (and you may not, past the broadest general outlines - just as not one of us is ever going to know for sure which questions, or how many, s/he got right or wrong). Oh, and sometimes you just have to have the intestinal fortitude to make your best guess and go with it. Probably people who can't live with these conditions shouldn't be in medicine, or at least not active practice with live patients - regardless of their academic ability, exam scores, undergraduate grades, whatever.


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Ga_Ga_Fan


    Hi all,

    Did anyone get an email off the CAO saying you're not eligible for grad entry to med? I got it on Friday and it doesn't give me a specific reason, it just says it may be because I didn't submit my degree documentation, may not be EU citizen or may not have received a 2.1 etc etc.
    I am Irish, have a 2.1 degree but I haven't submitted any documentation to CAO about my degree as yet.... I sat GAMSAT last week and even though I don't see myself getting offered a place I definitely don't want to knock myself out of the running on a technicality...... has anyone here any idea on when we've to submit the transcripts, and if it's to the universities individually or just to the CAO in general? This is my first time doing GAMSAT and I'm not that well up on it! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks!


  • Registered Users Posts: 39 Nanorman


    Ga_Ga_Fan wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Did anyone get an email off the CAO saying you're not eligible for grad entry to med? I got it on Friday and it doesn't give me a specific reason, it just says it may be because I didn't submit my degree documentation, may not be EU citizen or may not have received a 2.1 etc etc.
    I am Irish, have a 2.1 degree but I haven't submitted any documentation to CAO about my degree as yet.... I sat GAMSAT last week and even though I don't see myself getting offered a place I definitely don't want to knock myself out of the running on a technicality...... has anyone here any idea on when we've to submit the transcripts, and if it's to the universities individually or just to the CAO in general? This is my first time doing GAMSAT and I'm not that well up on it! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks!

    Hi Ga_Ga_Fan, sorry to hear about that email. I think the cut off date for sending documentation was March 12th? I sent transcripts, a letter for them to stamp with my address, stamped already and a list of documents I sent. I also placed a card stating my CAO number, name etc. You have to mail these to the CAO office in Galway. The only people who have to mail directly to the universities are non-EU students etc. Hope this helps!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14 LoveSick


    Hi all,

    I'm also just wondering about the CAO application. I applied back in January & just put down 3 colleges, UCD, UCC and UL.
    I am not at all confident about securing any place, but at the same time I want to change my choices. I know there are only certain dates for change of mind, but I'm pretty sure I was unable to change my choices and I'm kind of worried now that Graduate Medicine is one of the courses that comes under the rules of restrricted access for change of mind. Does anyone have any experience of trying to change courses on their CAO, or know if it is possible within the specified dates or not at all? Thank you!


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Sarah1379


    Ga_Ga_Fan wrote: »
    Hi all,

    Did anyone get an email off the CAO saying you're not eligible for grad entry to med? I got it on Friday and it doesn't give me a specific reason, it just says it may be because I didn't submit my degree documentation, may not be EU citizen or may not have received a 2.1 etc etc.
    I am Irish, have a 2.1 degree but I haven't submitted any documentation to CAO about my degree as yet.... I sat GAMSAT last week and even though I don't see myself getting offered a place I definitely don't want to knock myself out of the running on a technicality...... has anyone here any idea on when we've to submit the transcripts, and if it's to the universities individually or just to the CAO in general? This is my first time doing GAMSAT and I'm not that well up on it! Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    Thanks!

    Don't worry, all you need to do is send your docs to the cao. You need to

    1. Contact your college and get transcripts of every year of study.
    2. Get a photocopy of your degree parchment
    3. Certify your parchment copy by getting a notary public ( guard will do ) to sign a statement saying its a genuine copy.
    4. Send original transcripts and certified photocopy of parchment to the cao.
    5. If you want confirmation of receipt from the cao you need to send a self addressed card stating confirmation with the docs.

    You have til July 15th.

    Don't worry, got the same email, gave them a buzz. They seem very relaxed so you're grand. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 13 Ga_Ga_Fan


    Thank you Sarah, I shall sleep tonight now!!!! I have all that stuff so I'll get it in the post pronto! phew!!! :-)


  • Registered Users Posts: 5 bill05


    Hye I also Got the similar mail last friday .. but does any one know what why this point is been raised " you appear not to have a 2H1 in your first NFQ Level 8 Honours Degree "

    I got into ucd but droped out only after an year... I went on to do a different course and got a 2h1... .. I know it sound stupid but the year that I did in ucd would that count as my first NFQ Level 8 Honours Degree ... ??


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  • Registered Users Posts: 15 agraphia


    bill05 wrote: »
    Hye I also Got the similar mail last friday .. but does any one know what why this point is been raised " you appear not to have a 2H1 in your first NFQ Level 8 Honours Degree "

    I got into ucd but droped out only after an year... I went on to do a different course and got a 2h1... .. I know it sound stupid but the year that I did in ucd would that count as my first NFQ Level 8 Honours Degree ... ??


    couldn't be because you didn't actually get a qualification from that course. there were some people on the thread saying that they had 2:2 in their degree but 2:1 in masters and they definitely won't be accepted. but if you definitely have a 2:1 in your level 8 then it must be their mistake...


  • Registered Users Posts: 75 ✭✭ciara84


    Sarah1379 wrote: »
    Don't worry, all you need to do is send your docs to the cao. You need to

    1. Contact your college and get transcripts of every year of study.
    2. Get a photocopy of your degree parchment
    3. Certify your parchment copy by getting a notary public ( guard will do ) to sign a statement saying its a genuine copy.
    4. Send original transcripts and certified photocopy of parchment to the cao.
    5. If you want confirmation of receipt from the cao you need to send a self addressed card stating confirmation with the docs.

    You have til July 15th.

    Don't worry, got the same email, gave them a buzz. They seem very relaxed so you're grand. :)

    AFAIK, the july date applies to people who are currently in a degree, previous graduates have to have it in by march of the application year (pretty sure this was the case last year, but I graduated a long time ago, so sent mine in the week after I applied to the CAO), also, if you've graduated already you also need to send in your degree certificate (translated version because its probably in latin), and not just the transcripts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Sarah1379


    ciara84 wrote: »
    AFAIK, the july date applies to people who are currently in a degree, previous graduates have to have it in by march of the application year (pretty sure this was the case last year, but I graduated a long time ago, so sent mine in the week after I applied to the CAO), also, if you've graduated already you also need to send in your degree certificate (translated version because its probably in latin), and not just the transcripts.

    Are you sure? Cause I graduated last year and when I called them they said I could send the docs in with this batch. I'll ring them again maybe.


  • Registered Users Posts: 32 Poppo4


    I was just speaking to the CAO on the phone and received an e-mail about it. We have until July 1st to send in our transcripts.

    "Please send original transcripts of all years of
    your degree plus a certified copy of the parchment
    of your degree before July1st."


  • Registered Users Posts: 58 ✭✭Sarah1379


    The institutions concerned have reviewed your application and based on the
    documentation received as of March 15th, you have been deemed ineligible for one
    or more of the following reasons:

    A. inadequate documentation supplied (original transcripts for all years
      and a certified copy of evidence of conferring is required);

    B. no documentation received (original transcripts for all years
      and a certified copy of evidence of conferring is required);

    C. you appear not to have a 2H1 in your first NFQ Level 8 Honours Degree;

    D. insufficient evidence of EU Status (please supply proof of your EU status).

    Contact the Admissions Office of the institution if you have any questions in
    regard to your eligibility or to check your status.

    Do NOT contact CAO as they cannot comment on your eligibility or EU status.
    Candidates must supply evidence of achieving NFQ Level 8 Honours Degree at 2H1
    (second class honours, grade one or equivalent) or better in their first NFQ
    Level 8 primary degree.

    Supporting documentation must include a full ORIGINAL transcript (ALL years) on
    the Institution's official headed paper and a certified photocopy of an official
    award showing evidence of conferring.

    CAO does NOT return such documentation.

    All documentation must be received at CAO no later than July 15th 2012.




    That's the email, even though I didn't get it in by march 15th I can still send in the docs by July. Confirmed by nice lady at CAO offices. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭PeadarGalway


    How has it only been a week and a bit since Gammy Saturday?
    Anybody else going slightly cracked? I think i need to take up knitting or something...


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Bella84


    How has it only been a week and a bit since Gammy Saturday?
    Anybody else going slightly cracked? I think i need to take up knitting or something...

    Slightly cracked is an understatement......what I want to know is.............has anyone else been having GAMSAT themed dreams???? I've had at least three in the last ten days!! And in one I scored really highly and the other was based around an abysmal score. Here's hoping for a happy medium.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Bella84


    Sarah1379 wrote: »
    Hoping for UCD. Don't think I could handle UL because of the PBL. I'm a non science background. Would rather not travel to Cork. Although after that GAMSAT I reckon I'll be giving it another whack in September before I go anywhere! What you hoping for yourself? What's your degree in?

    I'm hoping for UL, Limerick's my hometown and I've been exercising my dogs down there for years so it's familiar to me and holds many happy memories....more importantly though, I love the idea of the PBL approach. I find myself zoning out during lectures and I hate the packed halls, not being able to see the notes on the board, and esp professors who cant be bothered or teach without any enthusiasm, although not many of that calibre in a med school I hope. I'll learn a lot more plonked in a library with earplugs for an hour than I would in a lecture hall.

    Have an arts degree with a major in English and a masters in Education as well. So all the science was very new to me!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 45 Bella84


    I'm saying Friday 18th at some ungodly, horrendous hour for gammy results. Just putting it out there :eek:


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  • Registered Users Posts: 688 ✭✭✭Reality_Check1


    After reading some of this thread I thought Id come on and give a bit of advice because from my understanding some people are about to make a very uninformed decision. Im currently a 2nd year GEM in UCD and my sister and her boyfriend are in Gem in UL. I also have relations in the other GEM programmes so I know a little bit about the various colleges.

    My take home message - Don't go to UL unless you absolutely have to! and here's why:

    1. How you are perceived

    I absolutely despise elitism crap and I wish every school was on an equal footing but at the moment UL is known as the GEM programme of last resort or the GEM programme where you get your medical degree from wikipedia. Its bull**** all the stuff you hear and I thought it was just students taking the mick out of other colleges but I have heard at least 3 qualified doctors (1 a consultant) say far nastier things about the place. These people will be your future bosses and as much as you hate it and think its not fair you will be at a disadvantage from the get go. Their preconceptions wont be changed and if you think you can change the mind of a stubborn arrogant consultant than you are a pipe-dreamer (obviously not all consultants and doctors are like this but a worrying number are)

    2. What are you actually learning

    I seen Sandra posted earlier in this thread and her experience has been backed up by my sister and her boyfriend that they are not taught any biochemistry/pharmacology. This seems to be wavered by the line "ah sher we learn everything in a clinical setting so its ok" Do people not see how ludicrous this is?? Allow me to get technical for a second but if you dont know the basic science of how different drugs are metabolised and interact with each other than how in the name of God can you think you are learning things clinically?? This may seem harsh and I do not intend to offend but if you dont understand the underlying science than is there any difference between you and a clinically trained nurse?
    I know in UCD and RCSI you are taught the basic science in lectures but when it comes to exams everything is case based - this took a bit of getting used to and caught a lot of people off guard ;). They pretty much teach you how to apply the science to a clinical seting whereas my understanding is that UL just teach you how to handle a clinical case - Madness!!

    I intended to write a bit more but I must run to a meeting. Hopefully I can get back on later and maybe get my sister to post up her experience (she told me all of what is written above)

    Her advice would be similar - if you have the points for somewhere else then dont go to UL


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