Rescue Dogs - Moral Dilemma

Shelli2

Hi all, would like some help/opinions on my situation, while at the moment is hypothetical, is sure to become very real very quickly should things work out [IMG]file:///C:/Users/Shel/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image001.gif[/IMG]

We (boyfriend and I + 3yr old son) are currently renting, and have a small garden, but are hoping to buy in the near future and would want a dog pretty much straight away in our home. We are both dog people, well I'm more of an all animals person, and my other half is dog mad. We both feel a dog would complete our home, and want our son to grow up with a dog as we did.

I've always said I'd love to home a dog from a pound, and while he says he would love a choc lab as they are the only dogs he ever had growing up, was open to the idea of a rescue dog if the right one came along. I have/had very strong feelings on this, having always been a huge animal lover and have rescued/homed many different animal in the past (never a dog though). It's my understanding that young pups are few and far between in the pounds, stemming from the harsh reality that people want the small cute and fluffy.
While the small, cute and fluffy are not of interest to me, the character and history of the dog are of huge importance.

What has really caused a dent in my confidence was an incident during Christmas last, where my aunt’s dog attacked my son and bit his face, where he now has a small scar. My aunt had about 8wks previously gotten the dog from a well known pound, which at the time did numerous household checks and integrated the dog very well with her family before releasing the dog. While she always felt the dog had slight behavioural problems, there was nothing major there and no warning signs. It was only after he bit my son that the pound, when pressured, investigated the dog further and probed the previous owner, only to find out that he had showed aggression to a young toddler and that was why they gave him up for rehoming. She still has the dog, after I gave my blessing, on the condition that it is never EVER around children (she has an extremely large walled garden, and walks the dog in a very quiet wooded area on an extendible lead, so it is possible)

It has shaken my faith in pounds, how on earth can I rescue a dog now, not knowing if the history given about the dog is true, if there is something that could trigger a dog I brought into our home to attack my children??[IMG]file:///C:/Users/Shel/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif[/IMG]

There are so many mixed feelings, and so much more I could say, but I've written enough already.

PS. The reason I'm writing now is I passed the dog's trust rehoming centre with my son today, and was talking to him about what they do and how someday we might visit there to find a pup, which started an argument with my mother about rehomed dogs.
Note: it was not Dog's Trust who rehomed my aunt's dog.

Cherry Blossom

The dogs trust is a rescue, not a pound. Pounds are there for the purpose of getting strays off the street etc, pounds do not do any background checks etc. Are you sure your aunt got the dog from a pound? Do you mean she got it from a rescue?

Rescues have hundreds and hundreds of young puppies, advertising space on sites is just saved for the older dogs that are that bit older or harder to re-home for some reasons, puppies don't need promoting because they are snapped up quickly. A lot of rescues actually reserve puppies for homes with children only which won't be a problem for you. The dogs trust actually have an area which they call 'puppy palace'.

There are also many dogs in foster care while the rescue finds them new homes. Some of these foster homes will have toddlers in them and they will have a very good idea how a particular dog will get on in a particular setting and will be able to match you with the right dog.

Raminahobbin

Hi OP,

Was it a pound or a shelter she got the dog from? Pounds don't do background checks on their dogs or assessments to judge the temperament of the dog. People surrender to them, in which case the dog has 24hours (ish) for someone to rehome it, or the dog is found straying, in which case the dog has 5-7 (ish) days for someone to rehome it. You are going based purely on what you see is what you get, and there is usually a first come first served policy with rehoming.

Shelters usually do full assessments of the dogs, and will normally have tested the dog with Children and other animals to see how the dog reacts. They then find a home based on this. You are not guarenteed the dog just because you want it, they try their best to match the dog to the family. If you go to a shelter and tell them you want a dog that is used to children and gets on with them, that is what they will match you with.

Your aunt either picked the dog up from a pound where they knew nothing about the dog, or got the dog from a shelter that really should have done the proper assessments.

If you research the shelter and go to one that people generally hold to be very thorough, you should not have any problems with a pre-existing aggression. They will know the dog, and know its temperament.

EGAR is the one that jumps to mind for me, as the lady who runs it has a young son and will test new doggies out on him

The Sweeper

There are puppies in the pound. People will always surrender 'oops' litters that they can't sell or rehome. It may take a while, but you can always get a puppy through a pound or rescue.

Pure breeding is a strong indication of temperament tendencies, but NOT a guarantee of individual temperament in every dog. Collies will herd, but one collie may be cantankerous with kids and another may be great. German shepherds will guard, but one may guard by eating a visiting child, another may differentiate.

The work, training and socialisation YOU put into a pup will be of far greater importance than the breed of dog. Properly socialised and trained, you could create the best family dog in the world. Improperly socialised and poorly trained with no boundaries and little attention, and you could utterly ruin the best bred dog on the planet.

(Incidentally, I feel it's a complete myth that labradors are a great family dog. Labradors are intelligent, biddable, independent, stubborn, potentially very boisterous medium-large dogs, bred more and more heavily set versus even 30 years ago, and they can be a HELL of a lot of work.)

All that aside, take your time. If you want a pup, a rescue is as good a place as an ethical breeder. Rescuing an adult dog always comes with caveats - and your aunt's experience is a good example of what can go wrong. As for that dog biting your toddler with no warning - unfortunately that's not true, because you said your aunt "always felt the dog had slight behavioural problems". That should be warning enough. Fair play to you for how you handled that situation, but it's unfortunate that your son got bitten by a dog where the existing owner had already realised the dog might have issues, but for whatever reason pushed that to the back of their mind.

Puppies take a huge amount of time and effort, but you get to shape the dog. Adolescent dogs can be hard to handle because they're teenagers, but someone else may have already done the work on toilet training and basic commands, which could make your life easier. However if the adolescent dog hasn't been well socialised, you have that ground to make up.

If you have time to yourself at all, trying visiting more than one rescue centre. (But do it alone or you'll come home with a dog someone else has fallen in love with.) See a few dogs. Ask about temperament testing. Interact with some of them. Use both your head and your heart when you're looking, and look beyond the wagging tail. Visit and declare as you arrive 'I won't be taking home a dog today. I will in a while, but not today'. That way you don't waste anyone's time, but honestly I think you might benefit from a few visits, and seeing a few dogs with no pressure.

Whispered

Raminahobbin wrote: »

EGAR is the one that jumps to mind for me, as the lady who runs it has a young son and will test new doggies out on him

Lol what a way to put it. Sounds hilarious.

Raminahobbin wrote: »

Your aunt either picked the dog up from a pound where they knew nothing about the dog, or got the dog from a shelter that really should have done the proper assessments.

If you research the shelter and go to one that people generally hold to be very thorough, you should not have any problems with a pre-existing aggression. They will know the dog, and know its temperament.

Just on that point - a rescue can do a very indept assessment of a dog, of the potential new home, the people in it etc. It's never a guarantee though. Even if you have a dog from 8 weeks of age, things can still happen. I don't think that the OP's mothers experience is necessarily a reflection on the rescue she used.

Whispered

The Sweeper wrote: »

(Incidentally, I feel it's a complete myth that labradors are a great family dog. Labradors are intelligent, biddable, independent, stubborn, potentially very boisterous medium-large dogs, bred more and more heavily set versus even 30 years ago, and they can be a HELL of a lot of work.)

The toilet paper effect

Shelli2

Thanks all for the replys.

Sorry about the wording, my aunt definatly got the dog from a rescue. And while I don't believe it was the rescue's fault, but i do belive the previous owner was at fault for not discolsing full info on the dog. I was very shaken when my son was bitten (there was a lot of blood, and it was his face and hard to see where is was coming from) but luckily he does not seemed phased by it and stil loves dogs, although I've taught him to be a bit more wary of dogs he doesn't know.

The Sweeper wrote: »

Pure breeding is a strong indication of temperament tendencies, but NOT a guarantee of individual temperament in every dog. Collies will herd, but one collie may be cantankerous with kids and another may be great. German shepherds will guard, but one may guard by eating a visiting child, another may differentiate.

The work, training and socialisation YOU put into a pup will be of far greater importance than the breed of dog. Properly socialised and trained, you could create the best family dog in the world. Improperly socialised and poorly trained with no boundaries and little attention, and you could utterly ruin the best bred dog on the planet.

.

This is my thinking exactly, and it's good to hear that I should be able to get the right puppy for us, with patience. Both my OH and I have extensive experience with training dogs of our own from a very young age. I guess he just views labs through rose tinted glasses, where as I have had many differernt breeds + and cross breeds in the past.

I guess my heart is a little broken, as I had always wanted to resuce and older dog, a dog that would maybe not have been given another chance with a family otherwise. (I'm just a big softie really) :rolleyes:

I'll pacify myself with the hope that I can still help an older dog someday in the future when the children are all grown up.

username123

Shelli2 wrote: »

I guess my heart is a little broken, as I had always wanted to resuce and older dog, a dog that would maybe not have been given another chance with a family otherwise. (I'm just a big softie really) :rolleyes:

But you can still do that if you get a dog from a rescue that has been temperment tested with children. Many lurchers are amazing with children, just big softies - like you

The Sweeper

Shelli2 wrote: »

I guess my heart is a little broken, as I had always wanted to resuce and older dog, a dog that would maybe not have been given another chance with a family otherwise. (I'm just a big softie really) :rolleyes:

You can - you just need to shop around carefully. If you have extensive experience wtih dogs, as you appear to, that'll stand to you as you choose a dog.

sensibleken

username123 wrote: »

But you can still do that if you get a dog from a rescue that has been temperment tested with children. Many lurchers are amazing with children, just big softies - like you

lurchers and greyhounds tend to be very good with kids. and there are more than plenty older ones needing adoption

cjf

Not to be totally negative but it's a chance that everyone takes when bringing a dog into their home regardless of where you get the dog the age of the dog etc. You can do all the right things and research etc but dogs are animals and despite every temperament test, training etc they is always that margin for unpredictability. It's a case of always being aware of this and ensuring that no matter how comfortable things are that you can never be 100% sure of how a dog may react at any given time. The incident with your son was awful and I admire you for being able to give your blessing for the dog not to be put to sleep. When you are getting your dog please don't disreguard the rescue route as there are so many amazing dogs and pups out there in need of a home.there are many rescues whose dogs are cared for in foster homes rather than kennel environments. This could be a great option for you as the fosters gain very good first hand insight into the dogs while they live with them. They dogs are living in family environments often with children and other dogs. As I said despite every best effort sometimes unfortunate incidents can happen but please don't be put off offering a rescue dog or pup a home.

Casey_81

The Sweeper wrote: »

Use both your head and your heart when you're looking, and look beyond the wagging tail. Visit and declare as you arrive 'I won't be taking home a dog today. I will in a while, but not today'. That way you don't waste anyone's time, but honestly I think you might benefit from a few visits, and seeing a few dogs with no pressure.

We got our first dog from a shelter - ISPCA HQ to be exact.
On our first visit myself and my partner went on our own and said that we were looking for a small-medium sized dog that was good with children.
On a second visit we "borrowed" my sisters kids and got their impression on the dogs.. The handlers let us bring a few dogs for walks on the farm with the kids too.
Finally myself and my partner visited our chosen dog a few times over a couple of weeks before the home visits and all that were done. From start to finish I think it was just over a month between our first visit and when we took the dog home.

FlamingSox

Please remember that whether you get a puppy or an older dog, they should be supervised at all times when around children. The reverse may also be true (imo) - children too should be supervised when around dogs!!

Little_Focker

My 3 are strays that I took in and they are the most gentle, loving dogs, thankfully they arent mentally scarred from having been dumped/badly treated. Ive noticed they are extremly gentle with kids - they would usually be very boisterus with adults (but I think they egg them on a lot of them time!) I would never not have a rescue dog but I would be a very good judge of a dogs character anyway.

TBH if i was taking in a rescue dog with kids I would make sure its one that the rescue can give you a lot of info on their background etc. There are some dogs that just dont like kids but can be wonderful with adults. Bring your child along to get aquainted with the dog before you commit.

What happened in your aunts case is 100% the previous owners fault for not fully disclosing why they were giving the dog up. How anyone could not tell a rescue that their dog bit a child knowing that the chances of someone else taking the dog that has kids is just dispicable.

Little_Focker

FlamingSox wrote: »

The reverse may also be true (imo) - children too should be supervised when around dogs!!

Of course they should - it works both ways

equinemissy

Puppys can be very tempermental with young children. They do not know right from wrong themselves so they dont know if they bite the child it is wrong. You see so many ads with unwanted puppies and you know that it is because they dont get along with children. An older dog, i feel are alot better. They know right from wrong. I agree that lurchers are big softies. You need to try and research on dog breeds and find one. Most Terriers can be very snappy too. Hope it all works out for you, having a dog is a great asset in any family. By the way Sligo Animal Rescue has LOADS of dogs/puppies if you go on their facebook you can see some of them. Hope it helps best of luck