grass fed/organic/pastured meat?

tribesman44

just wondering if any farmers sell direct around galway. im about an hour outside the city (near mountbellew.) i know most cattle here are grass fed, but i know that a lot of farmers supplement corn/grains in winter and colder months. also looking to find pastured chicken, turkey. basically i want organic natural meat. i am gluten intolerant, and i get affected by meats that have been fed a gluten grain diet. it can be very frustrating. lately i have been eating wild caught seafood, because its the only thing i can eat without getting reactions. any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.

cheers

Bizzum

Meat contains zero gluten.
Organic reared animals may still be fed organic grains, which contain gluten,(the grain-not the meat!).
Is there a proven link to show an effect from the consumption of grain fed meat on coeliac sufferers?

LostCovey

Bizzum wrote: »

Meat contains zero gluten.
Organic reared animals may still be fed organic grains, which contain gluten,(the grain-not the meat!).

Well said bizzum, totally agree

Bizzum wrote: »

Is there a proven link to show an effect from the consumption of grain fed meat on coeliac sufferers?

I doubt it.

LC

Tora Bora

Nothing has been proven, regarding organic anything being one iota better than its non organic equivalent. If all farms turned organic, there would be an immediate food shortage, massive food price inflation, and consequent weeping and gnashing of teeth. The squeals of the tree huggers would ring the loudest.

Birdnuts

Tora Bora wrote: »

Nothing has been proven, regarding organic anything being one iota better than its non organic equivalent. If all farms turned organic, there would be an immediate food shortage, massive food price inflation, and consequent weeping and gnashing of teeth. The squeals of the tree huggers would ring the loudest.

Theres room for a happy mix(and the market worldwide for organic continues to grow, even in China where demand for organic milk has exploded on the back of a number of recent food scandals involving dairy products) - in any case its in a farmers financial interest to reduce as much inputs as he can, whether it be chemical fertilizers or pesticides etc.

PS: On the subject of organic V intensive there was an interesting piece on Channel 4 last year where 2 chickens were tested for certain nutrients. The organic free-ranger had 10 times the amount of essential omega 3(vital brain food!!) compared to its battery reared cousin. The latter also had alot more saturared fat then the organic bird. I'm not saying this is the case with all organic products but sweeping genaralizations don't help the debate from eithier side

Corsendonk

Agree withwhat has been said above and the FSA conducted a review in 2009 of all studies carried out on organic foods and reached the following conclusion:

Food Standards Agency UK

An independent review commissioned by the Food Standards Agency (FSA) shows that there are no important differences in the nutrition content, or any additional health benefits, of organic food when compared with conventionally produced food. The focus of the review was the nutritional content of foodstuffs.

Gill Fine, FSA Director of Consumer Choice and Dietary Health, said: ‘Ensuring people have accurate information is absolutely essential in allowing us all to make informed choices about the food we eat. This study does not mean that people should not eat organic food. What it shows is that there is little, if any, nutritional difference between organic and conventionally produced food and that there is no evidence of additional health benefits from eating organic food.
'The Agency supports consumer choice and is neither pro nor anti organic food. We recognise that there are many reasons why people choose to eat organic, such as animal welfare or environmental concerns. The Agency will continue to give consumers accurate information about their food based on the best available scientific evidence.’

The study, which took the form of a ‘systematic review of literature’, was carried out by the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine (LSHTM). LSHTM’s team of researchers, led by Alan Dangour, reviewed all papers published over the past 50 years that related to the nutrient content and health differences between organic and conventional food. This systematic review is the most comprehensive study in this area that has been carried out to date.

The FSA commissioned this research as part of its commitment to giving consumers accurate information about their food, based on the most up-to-date science.

This research was split into two separate parts, one of which looked at differences in nutrient levels and their significance, while the other looked at the health benefits of eating organic food. A paper reporting the results of the review of nutritional differences

Birdnuts

Corsendonk wrote: »

Agree withwhat has been said above and the FSA conducted a review in 2009 of all studies carried out on organic foods and reached the following conclusion:

Food Standards Agency UK

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1203343/JOANNA-BLYTHMAN-A-cancerous-conspiracy-poison-faith-organic-food.html

The really interesting bits are half way down!!

reilig

Whether there is a proven link or not to show an effect from the consumption of grain fed meat on coeliac sufferers, the op themself states that they can feel the effects of meats that have been reared on a gluten grain diet. Therefore the OP had proof which relates to himself/herself. Scientific studies and research on links are of no benefit to the OP.

OP, we used to sell a lot of lambs that were completely grass fed. We'd bring them to the butcher, get them slaughtered. Place a small ad in the local newspaper - we had no shortage of buyers who would store the lambs in their freezer. I'm sure that it would be ideally what you are looking for. Unfortunately we don't have the sheep numbers to do it anymore. But I'll bet that there are farmers in your area that are doing the same thing - the best way to identify them is to contact local slaughter facilities who might be able to direct you to their customers.

It would be more difficult to find cattle that are completely grass reared. Usually, grain is fed to get the animal to the finished stage or grain is fed over the winter months to supplement grass.

Pigs will usually have been fed grain also.

Have you thought of other meats? In the UK, rabbit meat is very popular

Tipp Man

Since when can the daily mail be used as any kind of reliable source or reference??

That paper (like most other tabloids) are full of s##t. and the article referernced above is nothing more than an opinion piece by somebody who oviously feels very very strongly about organic food

Regarding organic, personally i think its a load of rubbish BUT if people want to buy it they are more than entitiled to and if there is a demand for it then a certain number of farmers will have to supply it

From a farming point of view I think that even commercial non-organic farmers are using a hell of a lot less inputs now than even as recently as 10 years ago. With the costs of vets, medicines and fertiliser now so high i think that farmers are really having to justify every bag of manure and every injection. From our own point of view we hardly use any fertiliser any more, we have reduced numbers and are trying to grow grass without manure - it just doesn't pay for beef in our opinion

To answer the op I don't know of any such place in Galway but there are several places around the country that will deliver meat anywhere. There is definately a group of farmers in Kerry doing it for lamb, but not sure if its organic. I would think that you can almost definately source what you want, but it may take a bit of googling

Birdnuts

Tipp Man wrote: »

Since when can the daily mail be used as any kind of reliable source or reference??

That paper (like most other tabloids) are full of s##t.

I agree in general - but the same could be said of government agencies and big business pedalling their own agenda. In any case the author of the piece does cite references like Newscastle Uni which actually does research in this area as opposed to the source that the FSA used. Concerns about the objectivity of the FSA are also public knowledge.

PS: In any case I think everyone would agree that the stuff you rear/grow yourself is nearly always superior in taste/quality to what you buy in the shops anyway, whether it would be your own farmyard hen or fresh carrots from the garden/allotment/field:)

Bizzum

reilig wrote: »

Whether there is a proven link or not to show an effect from the consumption of grain fed meat on coeliac sufferers, the op themself states that they can feel the effects of meats that have been reared on a gluten grain diet.

The OP may well feel AN effect, but can they be sure it is from gluten? perhaps it's from nitrogen as an example or any other compound.
It is for this reason I would like to see scientific work on the specific subject.
It has little tio do with the intensive vs organic debate.

reilig

Bizzum wrote: »

It has little tio do with the intensive vs organic debate.

But the Op didn't start any "intensive vs organic debate".

He or she just said that "i get affected by meats that have been fed a gluten grain diet". Surely the OP is the best judge of what they can or cannot eat.
What good is scientific evidence to say that they can eat something if they know themselves that they have a reaction to it.

tribesman44

there has been studies showing that gluten can show up in meat. i found links on the coeliac society of ireland. they can trace in cattle by using hair off the tail. and they can figure out TO THE DAY the last time they had a gluten grain. and i know i am not nuts because certain meats kick my ass, and others give me no reaction at all. and the ones which give me zero reaction are wild caught seafood and organic 100% grass fed meats.

there is a HUGE difference in organic vs. conventional. the nutrients, flavanoids, antioxidants, etc.. are much higher on organic crops, meats, etc... check out the documentary Food Inc. if you get a chance.

i know it costs more money and people need to make a living, but at what point did everything go down hill? its all about making more money. i firmly believe people are getting sick from what they are eating. and i also believe food can heal people. food was our first medicine.

tribesman44

and i do know organic doesn't mean they aren't fed any gluten grains. organic can pertain to any food. i also read that this feeling i get might be from amino acids breaking down in the body, but if that's the case, then why do other meats never give me this feeling?

and the most important person to listen to in all of this is your own self. i don't care if other people feel fine or crappy. i know how i feel and listening to your own body is the most important thing. when i have a nice ribeye on the bbq, i shouldn't feel like **** for 3-4 hours afterwards.

tribesman44

and i do know organic doesn't mean they aren't fed any gluten grains. organic can pertain to any food. i also read that this feeling i get might be from amino acids breaking down in the body, but if that's the case, then why do other meats never give me this feeling?

and the most important person to listen to in all of this is your own self. i don't care if other people feel fine or crappy. i know how i feel and listening to your own body is the most important thing. when i have a nice ribeye on the bbq, i shouldn't feel like **** for 3-4 hours afterwards.

tribesman44

reilig wrote: »

Whether there is a proven link or not to show an effect from the consumption of grain fed meat on coeliac sufferers, the op themself states that they can feel the effects of meats that have been reared on a gluten grain diet. Therefore the OP had proof which relates to himself/herself. Scientific studies and research on links are of no benefit to the OP.

OP, we used to sell a lot of lambs that were completely grass fed. We'd bring them to the butcher, get them slaughtered. Place a small ad in the local newspaper - we had no shortage of buyers who would store the lambs in their freezer. I'm sure that it would be ideally what you are looking for. Unfortunately we don't have the sheep numbers to do it anymore. But I'll bet that there are farmers in your area that are doing the same thing - the best way to identify them is to contact local slaughter facilities who might be able to direct you to their customers.


It would be more difficult to find cattle that are completely grass reared. Usually, grain is fed to get the animal to the finished stage or grain is fed over the winter months to supplement grass.

Pigs will usually have been fed grain also.

Have you thought of other meats? In the UK, rabbit meat is very popular

this is exactly what i want. to find a reliable source that i can eat with no problems. then i can buy in bulk to freeze or have it delivered. and i am open to all sorts of meats. bison, duck, goose, kangaroo, elk, etc... i will literally eat just about anything as long as it agrees with me. i just would like to support local farmers. from the looks of some of the farmers in here, they really dont care too much. its sad, because in this line of work you should be trying to put out the best product possible and cater to all types of customers.

Bizzum

tribesman44 wrote: »

there has been studies showing that gluten can show up in meat. i found links on the coeliac society of ireland.
I'm very interested in this. Can you provide a link please?



there is a HUGE difference in organic vs. conventional. the nutrients, flavanoids, antioxidants, etc.. are much higher on organic crops, meats, etc... check out the documentary Food Inc. if you get a chance.

I agree. No need to check it out. Many organic fed cattle are fed on organic grain.

i know it costs more money and people need to make a living, but at what point did everything go down hill? its all about making more money.

IF this is the case it aint the farmers that are making the money.


i firmly believe people are getting sick from what they are eating. and i also believe food can heal people. food was our first medicine.

On the grand scale of things, I think Irish Beef is a top of the range product. I would be far more worried about many many other foods we as a society consume, including what we drink!

Bizzum

tribesman44 wrote: »

from the looks of some of the farmers in here, they really dont care too much. its sad, because in this line of work you should be trying to put out the best product possible and cater to all types of customers.

I dunno what you're basing this on. It's a cheap shot to be accused of not caring. Surely you don't expect the majority of farmers to produce a product for a minority niche market.

Are you saying that organic meat is no good to you? or organic grass fed only?
What about conventional grass fed?
What about as an example a wild pheasant?
I'm very interested in this case.

tribesman44

Bizzum wrote: »

On the grand scale of things, I think Irish Beef is a top of the range product. I would be far more worried about many many other foods we as a society consume, including what we drink!

ill try and find the link. someone on the coeliac society of ireland posted a few articles. very interesting stuff

yes, its the govt. making the money. i know farming is very hard and you guys don't get nothing close to what you deserve. i respect the hell out of farmers. you def. need to be taken better care of. and then if/when that happens, maybe we will all benefit more.

i agree that irish beef is great. when you compare it to american feed lot crap, its gold vs. tin. maybe i chose the wrong words, i dont know. i am very happy with the quality/taste of the meat i buy from the butcher. its just that this feeling a lot of it gives me is not something i want to deal with.

tribesman44

Bizzum wrote: »

I dunno what you're basing this on. It's a cheap shot to be accused of not caring. Surely you don't expect the majority of farmers to produce a product for a minority niche market.

Are you saying that organic meat is no good to you? or organic grass fed only?
What about conventional grass fed?
What about as an example a wild pheasant?
I'm very interested in this case.

i was basing it on some of the comments i received back. i was just asking a question and it seems some people got very offended and said some rude things. i guess i just got defensive too, but no hard feelings. sorry if it came across as a cheap shot.

see what you say about minority niche market...that is my problem. food should all be done this way. its just that over time, things became cheaper and more cost effective, but at the same time it made our health go down the drain. you may not agree with me on this, but i don't believe cattle, lamb, etc should be given ANY grains. i read before that the only animals that should eat grain, or are designed to, are chickens, birds, poultry, etc.. when you feed animals like cows grains, it tends to make them more omega 6 laden, than omega 3. and western society nations ratios of omega 6-3 are WAY OFF because of things like this. i think westerner society ratios are something like 20:1 omega 6 to 3, which is really bad. this is why people are sick and have heart disease. but you look at nations like japan (who live the longest in the world) and their ratio is about 2:1 now of course this is because they eat a lot of seafood, iodine, etc.. but we can learn something by this. there is a reason those people live a lot longer.

organic meat is very nutritious, if done properly. heck, even feed lot meat has some nutrition. my original post was more about how it makes me feel. with lots of tinkering around, i have found that grass fed and organic gives me the least reaction, and sometimes gives me nothing. whereas conventional meat would really make me feel ill. a wild pheasant would be something i would eat. anything wild i would eat. and i am sure birds eat grains in the wild. i would have to eat it and get back to you to let you know if it affected me though. i am going to start keeping a journal on all of this. free range chickens, turkey, and pork seem to really affect me too. even farmed fish kills me and i know for a fact that they feed them pellets with gluten in them. but if i buy wild fish, i get no reactions. i hope this clears things up. and again, sorry if i hurt anyones feelings.

Bizzum

tribesman44 wrote: »

i have found that grass fed and organic gives me the least reaction, and sometimes gives me nothing.

So it appears that sometimes even grass fed affects you negatively?

Your constitution could have the basis of a doctorate for someone with the time and inclination on their hands!

A shotgun and a fishing rod could solve a lot of your dietary problems. A feed of pidgeon over rape in spring is as good as it gets!

tribesman44

Bizzum wrote: »

So it appears that sometimes even grass fed affects you negatively?

Your constitution could have the basis of a doctorate for someone with the time and inclination on their hands!

A shotgun and a fishing rod could solve a lot of your dietary problems. A feed of pidgeon over rape in spring is as good as it gets!

yea. for instance, just had some rack of lamb and now i am dying. it HAS to be that the animal is given some type of grain. if there is another explanation, i cannot find it.

haha, yea i know. i went to school for the wrong thing. i actually would love to be a farmer. too bad i have no money to get started

yea, i really need to start hunting. i fished a lot as a kid, but i was a catch and release guy. not anymore! never had pigeon, but heard a lot of great things. i will eat any wild game i can find. had kangaroo back at the galway xmas festival and loved it. can you find bison farms anywhere around here?

5live

2 Bison farms. One in cork and one in meath. I will try to find links if i remember

tribesman44

5live wrote: »

2 Bison farms. One in cork and one in meath. I will try to find links if i remember

thats great. i hope they deliver to your door. fingers crossed. doesn't get much better than a bison ribeye for me

Corsendonk

If I was feeling that bad after eating meat I would become a vegetarian. Like how do you know that the wild rabbit hasn't got lucky and had a fine diet of grain? Your better off cutting out the risk factor totally or rearing your own food.

tribesman44

Corsendonk wrote: »

If I was feeling that bad after eating meat I would become a vegetarian. Like how do you know that the wild rabbit hasn't got lucky and had a fine diet of grain? Your better off cutting out the risk factor totally or rearing your own food.

maybe it is a combination of grains/growth hormones/antibiotics, etc... how many farmers use these? same applies to dairy. if i can't find raw dairy, i just use soya milk instead.

i would sooner opt for the pescatarian route, if need be. you are right, i can't prove what animals eat in the wild. wild fish doesn't bother me because the type i eat are usually predators which feed only on smaller fish.

jeff greene

Placebo! Not just a rock band.

OP provide links to backup your point, please no Daily Mail:rolleyes:

tribesman44

jeff greene wrote: »

Placebo! Not just a rock band.

OP provide links to backup your point, please no Daily Mail:rolleyes:

is my word not good enough? links to articles will just be words of someone else, so why would you believe them and not me?

trust me, i wouldn't come on here and make this stuff up. you may take it as a joke, but i can assure you it's not a joke to me

tribesman44

here ya go....thread on coeliac society of ireland with oodles of links for you to read. ever wonder why corn fed chickens look yellow? you are what you eat!

http://coeliac.ie/webboards/viewtopic.php?p=20763#20763

Muckit

Hi OP

You really do suffer badly from eating most meat. Why not go veggie?
Your body knows best, if your feeling chronically ill after eating a meal containing meat, does that not tell you something :rolleyes:

Have you considered a visit to your doctor?

tribesman44

Muckit wrote: »

Hi OP

You really do suffer badly from eating most meat. Why not go veggie?
Your body knows best, if your feeling chronically ill after eating a meal containing meat, does that not tell you something :rolleyes:

Have you considered a visit to your doctor?

i shouldn't have to go vegan/vegetarian. some meats don't bother me. so if i can narrow it down to which ones i thrive on, i will do that. going veggie is the easy way out. and i don't feel chronically ill. more of a nuisance is the better description. heart palpitations, mouth ulcers, tingling arms, burning face. all coming from eating meat...something aint right. i would have been better off living in a time before the dawn of industrialization.

iv'e been to the doctor. most don't know their ass from their elbow. homeopaths are the best in my opinion. getting bloods taken again by a GP/holistic place to see if they can narrow this down. to be honest, i trust myself a lot more than someone else telling me what the problem is.

Muckit

'Chronically' means continually or persistently ill, and you are by your own admission that.

I'm sorry but if a doctor or health care professional can't give you advice or diagnose what you have, how do you expect us to solve your 'problem'? Doctors don't even self diagnose themselves.

tribesman44

Muckit wrote: »

'Chronically' means continually or persistently ill, and you are by your own admission that.

I'm sorry but if a doctor or health care professional can't give you advice or diagnose what you have, how do you expect us to solve your 'problem'? Doctors don't even self diagnose themselves.

thanks for clearing up the definition. its chronic if i eat the stuff every night. i don't so its not chronic.

i didn't ask you to solve my problem. i asked you to direct me to a farmer that could give me meat which is as natural/organic as possible.

FYI, most doctor's don't even know what gluten is. been through nightmares trying to get diagnosed for my thyroid. so in my personal experience, most doctors are completely useless. you need to do a bit more research before you run your mouth.

Bizzum

Tribesman,
I'm in the process of reading all of the links provided.
How are you with milk?

Bizzum

tribesman44 wrote: »

FYI, most doctor's don't even know what gluten is.QUOTE]


FYI, This type of sweeping generalization is simply wrong.

tribesman44

Bizzum wrote: »

Tribesman,
I'm in the process of reading all of the links provided.
How are you with milk?

fine with milk, from what i can gather. only way to tell if it affects you is to completely cut it out, and i have never done that. i switched from milk to soya/rice milk for my tea, but i still eat the odd cheese and yogurt.

tribesman44

Bizzum wrote: »

tribesman44 wrote: »

FYI, most doctor's don't even know what gluten is.QUOTE]


FYI, This type of sweeping generalization is simply wrong.

i am basing this on the doctors i have dealt with. doctors too have opinions. i mostly don't agree with their opinions. i personally view the entire healthcare system as a big business. sick people = money, but thats a whole different topic. and the reason not many people understand coeliac disease is because there is no quick cure for it. aka a pill for the pharmaceutical industries to make money on

Bizzum

Are there times of the year when you percieve your problem to worsen or abate?

tribesman44

Bizzum wrote: »

Are there times of the year when you percieve your problem to worsen or abate?

never noticed a difference before. i need to head out to connemara to do some salmon/trout fishing

Muckit

tribesman44 wrote: »

thanks for clearing up the definition. its chronic if i eat the stuff every night. i don't so its not chronic.

i didn't ask you to solve my problem. i asked you to direct me to a farmer that could give me meat which is as natural/organic as possible.

FYI, most doctor's don't even know what gluten is. been through nightmares trying to get diagnosed for my thyroid. so in my personal experience, most doctors are completely useless. you need to do a bit more research before you run your mouth.

Can we close this thread MOD? It has moved more into a health related topic than anything to do with farming

tribesman44

Muckit wrote: »

Can we close this thread MOD? It has moved more into a health related topic than anything to do with farming

people on this forum really crack me up. i ask a serious question, some of you guys start throwing your opinions out there and then i throw some back and it turns into a moan fest. i posted this originally in another area and a mod told me to post it here. feel free to move it wherever the hell you want. maybe i won't have to deal with tomfoolery anymore. sounds like a lot of farmers don't want to hear both sides of the story. its their way or the highway. scary really since you control what we eat. guess i better go buy that shotgun and fishing pole

tribesman44

i swear to god, like 90% of things i post on this forum turn into nonsense. i think the mods need to do a better job of controlling the fire. then i say something back and im the bad guy. cracks me up

Bizzum

Right, I post my final post on the topic.
It seems to me Tribesman that there are that many contradictions in how your malady manifests itself that god himself(If you believe in one!) would be incapable of curing you.
Best of luck with the fishing, and mind those pesky bones!

tribesman44

it seems to me that your an asshole

tribesman44

im sure ill get perma-banned for that.

Bizzum

tribesman44 wrote: »

it seems to me that your an asshole

Damn.
I thought I was getting away with it, but the truth is out there......