Have you read Ulysses?

Posy · 02-01-2012 10:06pm

I have read it. I knew that I would be studying it in college so read it the summer before. Then I did it in college and studied it fairly in-depth and wrote a few essays on it.
I think it's a great book, very entertaining.

I don't think I'd have the patience for 'Finnegan's Wake' though.

pipelaser · 02-01-2012 10:40pm

mosin wrote: »

My news years resolution every year is to read Ulysses but frankly I find it a bit daunting. Is there such thing as a reading group you can join specifically to help you get through Ulysses? Wud love to join one in the Dublin area.

If you don't find one, then there are other ways to get through it.
I found watching "Ulysses 1967 Part 1" (and so on), on Youtube brought a lot of the main events in the book to light. There is also a good Wikipedia page that shows you what to look for chapter by chapter.
Reading through them or watching the film first doesn't in any way spoil the experience of reading, it makes it more accessible.
For a lot of the middle chapters of the book I was still completely lost though!

DublinWriter · 02-01-2012 10:49pm

The whole genius of Joyce was that he gave no 'concession' to the reader.

Basically he lands you in a foreign country and leaves it to you to figure it out, rather than what most authors do by putting you on a complete package holiday.

...and many would argue that is what life basically does itself. There's no overwhelming cohesive narrative to your life, so why do you expect one in fiction?

The reward is that you discover things for yourself through his work.

Posy · 03-01-2012 2:17am

That's a great way of looking at it. Joyce certainly won't hold your hand during the difficult narrative.

Does Finnegan's Wake actually make any sense though? Ulysses has characters and a plot- F.W just seems like nonsense!

The Sparrow · 03-01-2012 8:45pm

I decided to give Joyce a go this year so I'm going to start Dubliners tomorrow and hopefully work my way up to Ulysees. Hopefully it will be fun and rewarding.

bullpost · 04-01-2012 2:34pm

Dubliners is very accessible and enjoyable.
Watch the film "The Dead" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0092843/ when you've finished the book.

The Sparrow wrote: »

I decided to give Joyce a go this year so I'm going to start Dubliners tomorrow and hopefully work my way up to Ulysees. Hopefully it will be fun and rewarding.

Permabear · 04-01-2012 4:56pm

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PurpleBee · 04-01-2012 11:45pm

don't let anyone tell you its necessary to read Homer to appreciate Ulysses, read the chapter summaries of the Odyssey and you'll have more than you'll ever need.

deem79 · 05-01-2012 3:32pm

Dubliners is fantastic. I'm not smart enough to 'get' Ulysses - if I ever get around to it I'll have explanatory notes beside me so I can get all the references

DublinWriter · 12-01-2012 10:23pm

Permabear wrote: »

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I agree and I disagree.

Finnegans Wake is generally agreed to be the most 'difficult' novel in the English language.

I believe the key to the text is the recording Joyce's reading own from i.8 (the Dublin two washer-women). It's on youtube.

But to read the text alone is like trying to decipher musical notation without any idea of the staves or what instrument is playing which part.

I came from a stance of disliking FW, to starting to believe I was beginning to understand it, to actively hating it.

It was as much written for Joyce's own amusement than any one elses. For example, the character 'mamalujo' was named by combining the names of Nora (Mama), his daughter Lucia (Lu) and Georgio (jo). He only confessed this secretly later.

How on earth could anyone decipher the text on that basis?

During the years of its writing, Joyce was a functioning alcoholic. More is to be gained by reading Nora's account of Joyce's working method (he'd write all night, drinking white wine, laughing to himself in the next room) than any scholarly thesis.

PurpleBee · 12-01-2012 11:42pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

During the years of its writing, Joyce was a functioning alcoholic. More is to be gained by reading Nora's account of Joyce's working method (he'd write all night, drinking white wine, laughing to himself in the next room) than any scholarly thesis.

Lots of great writers are alcoholics... (not sure what a functioning alcoholic is) alcoholism is almost a prerequisite to becoming a great writer

also its a documented fact that Joyce was gutted at the preference people had for Ulysses over Finnegans Wake, it took him 17 years to write... its hardly an "in joke" between family members.

I've only ever read parts of FW and its unbelievably dense, not sure its my cup of tea, but at the same time, it seems pretty amazing to me

Kinski · 13-01-2012 11:34am

PurpleBee wrote: »

Lots of great writers are alcoholics... (not sure what a functioning alcoholic is) alcoholism is almost a prerequisite to becoming a great writer

Some were, plenty weren't. We shouldn't romanticize alcoholism by pretending that it fuels creativity.

Permabear · 13-01-2012 12:15pm

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DublinWriter · 13-01-2012 12:20pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Interesting...did Joyce himself state that, or is it third-party speculative interpretation?

Permabear · 13-01-2012 1:33pm

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PurpleBee · 13-01-2012 10:28pm

Kinski wrote: »

Some were, plenty weren't. We shouldn't romanticize alcoholism by pretending that it fuels creativity.

not romanticising it, just pointing out that alot of great writers were alcoholics.

Kinski · 13-01-2012 10:44pm

PurpleBee wrote: »

not romanticising it, just pointing out that alot of great writers were alcoholics.

PurpleBee wrote: »

alcoholism is almost a prerequisite to becoming a great writer

?????????????????????????

PurpleBee · 14-01-2012 12:01am

That was my over reaction to the other poster's disparagement of Joyce's writing as an alcoholic. My point, rather than romanticising alcoholism, was to point out that it is not necessarily a barrier to the production of great writing...

never said that it fueled creativity.

it is at this point that I shall stick out my tongue

Grievous · 14-01-2012 6:00pm

Permabear wrote: »

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I always enjoy reading your posts on Joyce. Did you study him in university?
Being Irish, I am always surprised I don't spend more time reading great Irish writers like Flann O'Brien, Wb Yeats, and Joyce himself.

At the moment, I am more interested in Nikos Kazantzakis (Greek), Marguerite Yourcenar( French) and James Shapiro (American).

Permabear · 15-01-2012 1:57am

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Ewo · 15-01-2012 2:03am

No. But have it in audiobook format. Very good.

marienbad · 15-01-2012 2:43am

Yes I have read Ulysses and Dubliners and the poems and Portrait and Exiles. Only FW to go and I will be starting that soon.

I have read Ulysses quite a few times at this stage and it has given me and continues to give me ( along with a handful of other other books) the greatest reading pleasure in my life.

I don't think it can be considered any longer a particularly difficult book . Just give it a lash and if you can read it aloud, do so and you will get into the cadence of it .

To me it is not abook to be read just once though, and reading homer will add a completely new dimension.But whatever you do - read it- You don't have to be Irish or a lapsed catholic or a dubliner to enjoy it but you do have an head start right there.

And in the last analysis just remember it is the story of a father in search of a son and a son in search of a father, Wish I was approaching it for the first time --

'' Stately, plump Buck Mulligan came fom the stairhead, bearing a bowl of lather on which a mirror and a razor lay crossed.

There you ago one sentence done !P erhaps we should have a have areading club of it

After Ulysses The Dead- both the story and film are next

Valmont · 15-01-2012 11:46am

marienbad wrote: »

Perhaps we should have a have areading club of it

That's not a bad idea you know. We could simply have a thread and give everyone a few days to read a certain portion and then discuss our thoughts on it, interpretations etc. That might be fun with Finnegans Wake too since my reading group disbanded a while back; I was the only member at the end!

karaokeman · 15-01-2012 3:47pm

Hey all, I'm up for the idea of a Ulysess reading club:D.

I actually prob won't need it until september 2013 as I'm a first year English student at NUI Maynooth, just finished reading Dubliners.

I would like to read it or parts of it this summer, just because its so daunting and I couldn't imagine having read none of it by start of 3rd year.

I'm glad I read this thread anyhow, got a few notes and will hopefully watch the film, buy help books etc when I do get around to reading it.

bitlocked · 15-01-2012 6:35pm

I'm two chapters from the end and absolutely loving it.

The sensation of rummaging around in someone else's real, uninhibited thoughts is unparalleled in anything else I've ever read. Of course you're not going to understand everything, the person you're listening to is speaking to themselves in their own head-language, with all their impulses and experiences and preoccupations coming to bear in such a way that no-one but they themselves could possibly grasp each and every nuance.

But those times when you can see...

Marvellous.

DublinWriter · 15-01-2012 8:51pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Was it accepted? I'd say your Viva Voce was probably like something out of the Spanish Inquisition.

Years ago I spoke with a girl who did an BA in UCD, her final year thesis was on the subject of Feminism in Ulysses.

When I asked her what she thought of Finnegans Wake, her answer was "Who wrote that?"

I kid you not.

mickoregan · 16-01-2012 1:14pm

I've read Dubliners and Portrait over the years. I enjoyed them both, but I have no desire to read either Ulysses or FW.

Permabear · 16-01-2012 1:21pm

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marienbad · 16-01-2012 5:24pm

Permabear wrote: »

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Sign me up.

Itziger · 16-01-2012 6:08pm

DublinWriter wrote: »

I agree and I disagree.

Finnegans Wake is generally agreed to be the most 'difficult' novel in the English language.

I believe the key to the text is the recording Joyce's reading own from i.8 (the Dublin two washer-women). It's on youtube.

But to read the text alone is like trying to decipher musical notation without any idea of the staves or what instrument is playing which part.

I came from a stance of disliking FW, to starting to believe I was beginning to understand it, to actively hating it.

It was as much written for Joyce's own amusement than any one elses. For example, the character 'mamalujo' was named by combining the names of Nora (Mama), his daughter Lucia (Lu) and Georgio (jo). He only confessed this secretly later.

How on earth could anyone decipher the text on that basis?

During the years of its writing, Joyce was a functioning alcoholic. More is to be gained by reading Nora's account of Joyce's working method (he'd write all night, drinking white wine, laughing to himself in the next room) than any scholarly thesis.

I read FW a long time ago and not as part of any thesis or doctorate. I put some work into it - you have to, but I didn't have a stack of "Aids to reading FW'" next to me. I enjoyed many parts of it and yes some parts were more or less incomprehensible. Why should it make any difference to a reader whether she knows where Mamalujo comes from? (Not THAT hard to see the connection actually, is it?) Now that I think of it - and this is one of the uncanny things about this book - the name/word applies to half of my own crowd here! Maria Jose and Lucia. I'll try it out on them at dinner and see who responds. It would be typical Joyce if the 4 year old "gets it".

To the poster who read Dubliners and Portrait, surely you're a bit curious about Ulysses? Give it a go and approach it without hang-ups. Enjoy it. Rejoice.

Have you read Ulysses?

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