Bus Engine ordered to be turned off during Journey.

bmaxi

In the 70s, people wouldn't even consider tavelling on a bus with the huge unwieldy machines you constantly fall over today, it just wasn't practical. For very young children there were detachable carrycots where the wheeled base then folded down. Of course, in the 70s most mothers also had a husband to help them, today's young women only seem to want help in the conception area, the taxpayer does the rest.
I say fair play to the inspector for making the stand, most of our problems in every field are caused by non enforcement of the rules, so I commend him for doing it.

foggy_lad

Way back then in the 70s and 80s women stayed at home generally and were housewives/homemakers. they would take the bus into town for shopping but not with a newborn baby, during the first few months all their shopping would be for groceries and would be done locally at the corner shop, there were very few spar and centra's back then! they would have help arranged from family and neighbours to mind other children etc if they needed to go to hospital for anti natal appointments etc and people were altogether a lot more courteous back then towards others and also a lot more respectful of those in authority and also of themselves.

monument

As foggy_lad says the world has changed since the 70s.

People move around more, people are not near relatives, and if public transport does not get that there's little hope of getting more and more people to move away from car use. And everybody in public transport has to get that -- everybody from drivers to inspectors to CEOs and directors.

If bus drivers and other staff can't understand the need of passengers then it's another mark against buses and another reason to build more Luas lines, combined with Metro and Dart.

January wrote: »

The one thing I do know is that in the early days, if I had to get around with the baby on the bus, I'd put her in the carseat and attach it to the buggy, there for all I had to do in the event of someone else needing to use the space, is take the car seat off the chassis and fold it and bring the car seat to the seat with me and hold it tight while the bus was moving... Saved a lot of hassle with trying to hold the baby and trying to fold the buggy without trying to look for help off other people!

That may have suited you but many people have to take longer trips -- with the bus only being part of the way. A car seat isn't suitable for a new born for long -- they are not meant to be in them for a long time. Car seats also aren't that good at keeping the elements out -- from the rain and cold to sun light.

People who don't have cars may not have car seats. We have one be we it's a hand-me-down and does not fit into the buggy.

monument

bmaxi wrote: »

Of course, in the 70s most mothers also had a husband to help them, today's young women only seem to want help in the conception area, the taxpayer does the rest.

Yes, because single mothers are the only ones who ever have to take public transport without their partners around. :rolleyes:

bmaxi

monument wrote: »

Yes, because single mothers are the only ones who ever have to take public transport without their partners around. :rolleyes:

Simple solution to that, keep your knees together.

January

bmaxi wrote: »

Simple solution to that, keep your knees together.

Oh come on, be serious, I'm not a single mother and I have to get the bus, my partner works and I don't drive. Am I supposed to sit in the house all day acting like the perfect little housewife, don't think so.

monument, I was taking long trips, babies can be in their car seat for up to two hours at a time, she was never in there for longer than that, because she was out being fed, or being changed, or being given attention to in between the bus journeys. But like I said, it's not rocket science, if you know you're going to be using public transport a lot when you are pregnant and in the newborn stages, don't buy a big bulky buggy!

bmaxi

January wrote: »

Oh come on, be serious, I'm not a single mother and I have to get the bus, my partner works and I don't drive. Am I supposed to sit in the house all day acting like the perfect little housewife, don't think so.

monument, I was taking long trips, babies can be in their car seat for up to two hours at a time, she was never in there for longer than that, because she was out being fed, or being changed, or being given attention to in between the bus journeys. But like I said, it's not rocket science, if you know you're going to be using public transport a lot when you are pregnant and in the newborn stages, don't buy a big bulky buggy!

The whole jist of the thread is the inconsiderate behaviour of people who bring huge prams onto public transport, by your own observation you obviously don't fall into that category.
You don't fall into the second category either for which I prescribed the solution.

Victor

bmaxi wrote: »

In the 70s, people wouldn't even consider tavelling on a bus with the huge unwieldy machines you constantly fall over today, it just wasn't practical. For very young children there were detachable carrycots where the wheeled base then folded down. Of course, in the 70s most mothers also had a husband to help them, today's young women only seem to want help in the conception area, the taxpayer does the rest.
I say fair play to the inspector for making the stand, most of our problems in every field are caused by non enforcement of the rules, so I commend him for doing it.

bmaxi wrote: »

Simple solution to that, keep your knees together.

You might ease off on the generalisations and condescension.

bmaxi wrote: »

Of course, in the 70s most mothers also had a husband to help them

Partners aren't there 24x7. Given that something like 25% of bus passengers have some mobility impairment (disability, age, children, luggage, etc.) allowances need to be made to create an inclusive society.

monument

Carry-cots are fairly standard for newborns. It's bloody crazy that I have to defend the use of them. As the National Transport Authority policy talks about, buses must suit the needs of people.

From the thinking in this thread, I'm surprised that there isn't even higher car use in Ireland... No wonder people with babies or just generally avoid Dublin Bus, this thread kind of makes me want to start driving!

I'm not even sure what the issue is. Both myself and the other half would move off the bus or fold up the buggy if somebody with a wheelchair tried to get on.

bmaxi wrote: »

The whole jist of the thread is the inconsiderate behaviour of people who bring huge prams onto public transport,

Did you hear the one about the pot calling the kettle black? :rolleyes:

It's sad to think that there's a good chance you're not trolling and that you're not a teenager.

parsi

bmaxi wrote: »

In the 70s, people wouldn't even consider tavelling on a bus with the huge unwieldy machines you constantly fall over today, it just wasn't practical. For very young children there were detachable carrycots where the wheeled base then folded down. Of course, in the 70s most mothers also had a husband to help them, today's young women only seem to want help in the conception area, the taxpayer does the rest.
I say fair play to the inspector for making the stand, most of our problems in every field are caused by non enforcement of the rules, so I commend him for doing it.

Wow what a generalisation. Maybe she was on a free travel pass as well and then she'd have ticked all the boxes in your Daily Telegraph bull**** bingo ?

What we do have here is someone who didn't really care too much about other people. One of the "rights but no responsibilities" brigade and they are scattered all across society as we are finding to our cost. The banker in the sharp suit was screwing the system as much as your hypothetical post-70s woman.

bmaxi

Only a matter of time before the bleeding heart liberal brigade got going. Pay me the courtesy of interpreting the context of the posts before patronising me.

-Chris-

OK, everyone dial it down a notch (possibly even two). Can we discuss civilly this without attacking each other?

parsi

Possibly we should have one bus for the guys travelling around Ireland on their free passes.

Then we should have a bus for those who are paying their way but have encumbrances such as buggies (and this is such a dose for everyone).

We can follow up by having a bus for commuters who are also paying their way.

I know as a commuter buggies drive me up the wall. As a parent buggies are necessary and I hate the way people go out of their way not to help (though we got a lot of help in the Paris metro). How do we square that circle ?

More importantly as a responsible citizen I hate the way folk sometimes go out of their way to be odd and obnoxious to their fellow citizen, most of whom are just trying to get through the daily grind.

bmaxi

The bottom line is. If the rules were routinely enforced, as was the case here then the problem of fraudulent use of free travel passes, which some people find it necessary to constantly harp on about, would disappear.
Who knows, it might even lead to a new lease of life for C.I.E roadfreight, somebody's going to have to carry all those shoulder chips around,
couldn't have them blocking up the aisles on our new, extended bus service.

monument

bmaxi wrote: »

The bottom line is. If the rules were routinely enforced, as was the case here then the problem of fraudulent use of free travel passes, which some people find it necessary to constantly harp on about, would disappear.
Who knows, it might even lead to a new lease of life for C.I.E roadfreight, somebody's going to have to carry all those shoulder chips around,
couldn't have them blocking up the aisles on our new, extended bus service.

Come off it, you really need to work on your trolling and be more selective about it.

Or maybe all those holes in your story could be explained because you really are a misguided Daily Mail or Telegraph reader?

Irish Rail could make billions from freight taking all those trucks off the road which would be carrying your shoulder chips!

bmaxi

monument wrote: »

Come off it, you really need to work on your trolling and be more selective about it.

Or maybe all those holes in your story could be explained because you really are a misguided Daily Mail or Telegraph reader?

Irish Rail could make billions from freight taking all those trucks off the road which would be carrying your shoulder chips!

I'd reply if anything you said made sense.

monument

bmaxi wrote: »

I'd reply if anything you said made sense.

Thanks for proving you're a troll.

Everybody else -- it's best not to feed the troll.

-Chris-

Can we keep this thread to buggies/wheelchairs etc, and leave the free travel pass/freeloaders/welfare cheats arguments for another thread?

bmaxi

monument wrote: »

Thanks for proving you're a troll.

Everybody else -- it's best not to feed the troll.

If possible, even less sense.
My post was on topic and referred to issues and prejudices voiced elsewhere.

-Chris-

It's dealt with, leave it alone.

ssaye

UPDATE ON THIS

This has now occurred 2 times in the last week.

15 Minute delay at first stop, 25 Minute delay at first stop

Today the Bus Driver had an Inspector accompany him on the journey.

The passenger and baby and young child again get on and proceed to leave the buggy in the wheelchair/buggy spot unoccupied and blankly refused to fold it and the stand off continued from 8:10 to 8:37 before the bus left. There were tears and shouting but ultimately the passenger sat in the seat and placed the child in the buggy and held it.

She could not grasp you had to hold your child and fold the buggy or sit beside the occupied buggy. Her child cried because she had to stand beside her mother in that spot.

The inspector tried to explain that she must do this on her both journeys every single day.

I am sure Dublin Bus Drivers are probably aware of the hassle on the 65 Bus by now. You can hear them talk about it on their radio daily.


TBC....

ssaye wrote: »

I was on Dublin Bus yesterday and halfway through the journey an Inspector got on and asked a mother to fold her buggy for Health and Safety Reasons. Fair enough. The mother said she cannot fold the buggy. (Someone offered to do it for her and she said it would break if you tried)

However, the Inspector ordered the driver to shut down the engine and the bus stayed stationary for 10-15 minutes. Eventually another passenger sat beside the buggy unfolded and held it for the Journey which the Inspector agreed to. My question is how long can a Bus Inspector stop a bus for?


Whats the procedure if a passenger refuses to comply, Ejection, Guards called and what recourse do the passengers have, if any, for the Bus being stopped for a significant period of time.

schemingbohemia

I'd just refuse to let her on the bus, if she can't abide by the rules for carriage just don't let her on.

lil5

From the DB website -
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Accessibility/Passengers-with-buggies/

"Passengers With Buggies

Wednesday, November 26, 2008

Low-floor buses are designed so that buggies can remain unfolded in the wheelchair space if it is free. Please make sure the buggy is safely positioned and the brake is on, unfolded buggies cannot travel in the gangway. You should be able to board any low-floor bus with a buggy. If the driver thinks that it is too crowded for you to board safely, he may refuse you boarding. The driver will not ask anybody already travelling to get off the bus to make room.
Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for use of the wheelchair space, since this is the only place in which they can travel safely.
If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board when there is an unfolded buggy in the wheelchair space, the driver will ask you to fold the buggy and either put it in the luggage space or keep it by your side. "


>>

It doesn't say anywhere that the buggy has to be occupied to be placed in the wheelchair bay, or that an unoccupied buggy has to be folded and put away in the luggage area.

If the customer wants to place the buggy in the wheelchair bay and take her child out for the duration of the journey she should be allowed to do so.

schemingbohemia

lil5 wrote: »

From the DB website -
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Accessibility/Passengers-with-buggies/

"Passengers With Buggies

Wednesday, November 26, 2008

Low-floor buses are designed so that buggies can remain unfolded in the wheelchair space if it is free. Please make sure the buggy is safely positioned and the brake is on, unfolded buggies cannot travel in the gangway. You should be able to board any low-floor bus with a buggy. If the driver thinks that it is too crowded for you to board safely, he may refuse you boarding. The driver will not ask anybody already travelling to get off the bus to make room.
Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for use of the wheelchair space, since this is the only place in which they can travel safely.
If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board when there is an unfolded buggy in the wheelchair space, the driver will ask you to fold the buggy and either put it in the luggage space or keep it by your side. "


>>

It doesn't say anywhere that the buggy has to be occupied to be placed in the wheelchair bay, or that an unoccupied buggy has to be folded and put away in the luggage area.

If the customer wants to place the buggy in the wheelchair bay and take her child out for the duration of the journey she should be allowed to do so.

Even when she has been asked by the bus driver and inspector not to do so, and by arguing with them delay every other passenger for 20 minutes?

Yet another - I know my rights - idiot (i'm referring to the passenger not you) who forgets that with rights come responsibilities.

lil5

I'm sorry, but I still don't see why the passenger shouldn't be allowed to leave an empty buggy in the wheelchair bay if there is space. She abides buy the rules of carriage.


I still think that the driver and the inspector are in the wrong and shouldn't be allowed to hold up the bus journey for everyone else.

meanmachine3

ssaye wrote: »

UPDATE ON THIS

This has now occurred 2 times in the last week.

15 Minute delay at first stop, 25 Minute delay at first stop

Today the Bus Driver had an Inspector accompany him on the journey.

The passenger and baby and young child again get on and proceed to leave the buggy in the wheelchair/buggy spot unoccupied and blankly refused to fold it and the stand off continued from 8:10 to 8:37 before the bus left. There were tears and shouting but ultimately the passenger sat in the seat and placed the child in the buggy and held it.

She could not grasp you had to hold your child and fold the buggy or sit beside the occupied buggy. Her child cried because she had to stand beside her mother in that spot.

The inspector tried to explain that she must do this on her both journeys every single day.

I am sure Dublin Bus Drivers are probably aware of the hassle on the 65 Bus by now. You can hear them talk about it on their radio daily.


TBC....

says it all really. she must be a regular at this then for her to keep chancing her arm. i'm delighted they were ready for her. and if i was the driver i'd do exactly what he's doing. shes probably kicking up such a fuss that the driver will get fed up and let her win. not a chance. he stuck by his guns.

lil5 wrote: »

It doesn't say anywhere that the buggy has to be occupied to be placed in the wheelchair bay, or that an unoccupied buggy has to be folded and put away in the luggage area.

If the customer wants to place the buggy in the wheelchair bay and take her child out for the duration of the journey she should be allowed to do so.

actually if memory serves me correct it does actually say one occupied wheelchair or buggy. theres a notice right under the autofare (where you pay cash fares) on the use of buggies and wheelchairs. most boarding passengers cant miss it and it does say occupied

lil5 wrote: »

From the DB website -
http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/Your-Journey1/Accessibility/Passengers-with-buggies/

"Passengers With Buggies

Wednesday, November 26, 2008

Low-floor buses are designed so that buggies can remain unfolded in the wheelchair space if it is free. Please make sure the buggy is safely positioned and the brake is on, unfolded buggies cannot travel in the gangway. You should be able to board any low-floor bus with a buggy. If the driver thinks that it is too crowded for you to board safely, he may refuse you boarding. The driver will not ask anybody already travelling to get off the bus to make room.
Wheelchair users have priority over everyone else for use of the wheelchair space, since this is the only place in which they can travel safely.
If someone in a wheelchair wishes to board when there is an unfolded buggy in the wheelchair space, the driver will ask you to fold the buggy and either put it in the luggage space or keep it by your side. "

i'm delighted to see that they've also made it quite clear on who actually has priority

meanmachine3

lil5 wrote: »

I'm sorry, but I still don't see why the passenger shouldn't be allowed to leave an empty buggy in the wheelchair bay if there is space. She abides buy the rules of carriage.


I still think that the driver and the inspector are in the wrong and shouldn't be allowed to hold up the bus journey for everyone else.

ahhh jasus what next dunnes stores shopping trollies. actually she didn't abide by the rules of carriage.if you read my post above it says just below the drivers autofare box. one occupied wheelchair or buggy just because shes is entitled to travel be it cash ,tickets, passes, it still doesn't give her the right to be a law unto herself. shes brought all this attention onto herself. and if shes not careful she could be refused future travel on the grounds that shes a troublesome passenger.

Cookie_Monster

meanmachine3 wrote: »

and if shes not careful she could be refused future travel on the grounds that shes a troublesome passenger.

"fold your buggy"
"no"
20 min stand off

next day

"get off the bus, you're banned as a troublesome passenger"
"no"

20 min stand off

doesn't really accomplish much though does it...

and more than likely then:

next day

"you were told yesterday, you are banned"
"but today I have Richard Boyd Barret here to stand up for me - you know how he loves his pointless causes that only serve to annoy the vast majority of people to benefit only a minority"

3 hour standoff and bus burnt down, students blamed for protest gone out of control

meanmachine3

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

"fold your buggy"
"no"
20 min stand off

next day

"get off the bus, you're banned as a troublesome passenger"
"no"

20 min stand off

doesn't really accomplish much though does it...

and more than likely then:

next day

"you were told yesterday, you are banned"
"but today I have Richard Boyd Barret here to stand up for me - you know how he loves his pointless causes that only serve to annoy the vast majority of people to benefit only a minority"

3 hour standoff and bus burnt down, students blamed for protest gone out of control

if driver backs down she wins and what next for buggy woman?. following week new driver same situation. the line has to be drawn somewhere.

foggy_lad

ssaye wrote: »

UPDATE ON THIS

This has now occurred 2 times in the last week.

15 Minute delay at first stop, 25 Minute delay at first stop

Today the Bus Driver had an Inspector accompany him on the journey.

The passenger and baby and young child again get on and proceed to leave the buggy in the wheelchair/buggy spot unoccupied and blankly refused to fold it and the stand off continued from 8:10 to 8:37 before the bus left. There were tears and shouting but ultimately the passenger sat in the seat and placed the child in the buggy and held it.

She could not grasp you had to hold your child and fold the buggy or sit beside the occupied buggy. Her child cried because she had to stand beside her mother in that spot.

The inspector tried to explain that she must do this on her both journeys every single day.

I am sure Dublin Bus Drivers are probably aware of the hassle on the 65 Bus by now. You can hear them talk about it on their radio daily.


TBC....

Obviously this particular person has been of some concern to Dublin Bus whether in connection to person injury claims or regularly preventing wheelchair users from using services they should otherwise be able to access. It has to be something though to justify the delaying of the bus on more than one occasion and the attendance of an inspector.

Also if it got to the stage where there were tears shed the inspector should have called for the assistance of the Guards and asked the woman to accompany him from the bus to wait for them.

I suspect there is a lot more to this story that we and the op as onlookers know nothing about.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

I'd just refuse to let her on the bus, if she can't abide by the rules for carriage just don't let her on.

Exactly the thing to do the next time she is waiting at a stop, Dont open the doors/let her on until the Buggy is folded.

schemingbohemia wrote: »

Even when she has been asked by the bus driver and inspector not to do so, and by arguing with them delay every other passenger for 20 minutes?

Yet another - I know my rights - idiot (i'm referring to the passenger not you) who forgets that with rights come responsibilities.

She refused to follow the instructions of two authorised persons yet they still had compassion enough to allow her travel!