Art Teaching

SCRIBBLERDEE

Hi Im a first time user to dis thing but hopefully some1 can help.
I recently finished art college unfortunately receiving just a pass in my degree which is honors level 8. I want to further my studies and do the h dip in art education however due to my low results I have been unsuccessful this year. Are my hopes of doing my dip in Ireland gone,? I did my degree in The Limerick School of Art and Design and applied for my dip here also. My interview went well and I had sufficient work experience and portfolio, normally the course doesnt take on people just out of college but the following year people are successful. Im just wondering am i waisting my time reapplying cos of my results?? And is there any extra course recommended I could enrol in this year which would help my chances?! thanks in advance , hopefully someone can give me some advice.

Art Teacher

Jaysus, no way does a pass grade go against you. About half of the people on my Dip had a pass grade.

Yes you're right that most people taken into art teaching Dip's have been out of college for a year or more.

The best thing to help you get into the course is to get some teaching experience. Why not approach local schools ( vec's and community school sector) about giving a night class. Most of the general art or painting courses have the same tutors there for years, but Night Class coordinators in schools are always looking for someone to offer a different kind of course.
For example - I have taught night classes in Batik, Printmaking, Pottery for example.

It depends on you - as to what your specialism is, but if youre going to teach then you will need to broaden out your repetoire anyway.

Also, dont just apply to limerick - there are art teaching courses in Cork, Dublin and Belfast.
A course for you to do this year that may suit is Art therapy. it can be done in Crawford college of Art of in Cork IT. You need to think about this though because Art Therapy often involves working with very vulnerable people. http://www.iacat.ie/training.php

floating voter

But also remember art teaching is a niche subject. Every year we get 2 student art teachers in our school. They never get a job. There might be 5 art teacher jobs coming up in the entire country every year.

SCRIBBLERDEE

Art teacher you don't know how happy this has made me, I did extra evening art classes last year helping the art teacher in teaching painting classes to matures. I will definitely be gaining more experience in numerous schools this year to build up my CV, thank you so much. Also I had inquired from Crawford about the dip and I am aware of Dublin and Belfast also, I was just being hopeful of limerick, but I will definitely be applying to these next year. I felt like I was going to have to repeat the year maybe. Much obliged for the great news, you've made my day.

Also floater voter I am aware of this and my intentions are to study a second subject once I have complete my dip in art education. Thanks also

Art Teacher

I forgot to say that you need to prepare a portfolio for your interview.
The year gives you the opportunity to prepare a portfolio that would contain more than just your own personal artwork.

When you are teaching any art lessons - do up a really good example to show the learners what to aspire to ( called a visual aid in teacher language).

1) Put your teaching visual aids ( the best ones's) into your portfolio.
2) Keep a sketch book also.
3)Your own personal work too.
4)If the students work looks good,take photo's and put them in with your visual aids. If they don't look good don't worry about it - 1,2&3 above should be fine.

Also, it would be useful for you to join this online group of art educators. http://arted20.ning.com/

SCRIBBLERDEE

I am aware of the portfolio, visual aid is a gr8 idea thanks for the tip and I have signed up for art educators. You've been most helpful, thanks so much again

keithmiketom

Art Teacher wrote: »

Jaysus, no way does a pass grade go against you. About half of the people on my Dip had a pass grade.

Yes you're right that most people taken into art teaching Dip's have been out of college for a year or more.

The best thing to help you get into the course is to get some teaching experience. Why not approach local schools ( vec's and community school sector) about giving a night class. Most of the general art or painting courses have the same tutors there for years, but Night Class coordinators in schools are always looking for someone to offer a different kind of course.
For example - I have taught night classes in Batik, Printmaking, Pottery for example.

It depends on you - as to what your specialism is, but if youre going to teach then you will need to broaden out your repetoire anyway.

Also, dont just apply to limerick - there are art teaching courses in Cork, Dublin and Belfast.
A course for you to do this year that may suit is Art therapy. it can be done in Crawford college of Art of in Cork IT. You need to think about this though because Art Therapy often involves working with very vulnerable people. http://www.iacat.ie/training.php

Actually you are an idiot. Basically there are thousands of people applying for a HDip/PGDE courses, and many of them have an MA/MDES or higher. Some people applying have a Level 7 or ordinary degree, and that is ok. However having a third class honor which is barely scraping a pass in your final year of assessment, would more than definitely not allow you to be considered to be suitable to apply for the HDip in Art Education or whatever it is called these days. As someone who did the 4 year degree in Art & Design Education. I find it very offensive that someone with a bare pass in their degree thinks that they would be suitable to teach second level students. I have been teaching for 7 years and recently lost my job to redeployment. So if I can't get work, such and applicant would not stand a snowballs chance in hell. My advice is to apply to a UK university for a PGCE, they accept anybody

keithmiketom

floating voter wrote: »

But also remember art teaching is a niche subject. Every year we get 2 student art teachers in our school. They never get a job. There might be 5 art teacher jobs coming up in the entire country every year.

This is also true. A lot art jobs are being cut as some schools are bringing in stuff like Ag Science and other new subjects. THere are no jobs out there. The best thing any recent graduate can do is flit off to the UK.

keithmiketom

I would also be Highly Disturbed that anyone apply to teach would have a low grade and be accepted onto HDip or PGDE course. Teaching is a career where you impart knowledge, and in Art you must know about not just your own specialist area, but also about Design, Craft, Drawing and Art history, the latter to the extent you should be able to teach a pupil sufficiently to talk about Corbelled vaulting in Pre Christian and Early Christian Architecture for 4 pages with illustrations, if this years Leaving Certificate Art History paper is anything to go by: it's a course that spans 8,000 years, as well as having to teach various crafts, ranging from ceramics to batik, to modeling to Graphic design (graphic design comes up as a "craft" on the LC syllabus), then there is setting up a still life (according to the syllabus again, a student should be proficient in this) as well as knowing how to create an imaginary composition.

As regards repeating a year, I'm 95% certain in relation to NUI (I can't remember what category LSAD falls into) once you are conferred you cannot repeat a year, and if you do drop out and repeat your final year, you automatically drop a grade.

As Regards a second Subject, getting this is very expensive and the teaching council only ratifies a certain amount of courses, in fact you would be best to talk to them about what you could likely pursue, but if you just scraped a pass in something you very clearly are passionate about, and have spent 4 years studying and researching towards, I would have concerns about what else you could study and pick up.
On the flipside, I know from having taught in the UK that if you can teach one subject, you can teach any subject, so I think that may be the avenue for you if you are insistent on teaching, but I wouldn't get my hopes up on teaching in Ireland any time soon.

As you can probably tell I am quite annoyed with a lot of Art Graduates who (I am not saying this is you) do 4 years taking it easy doing Fine Art or Media or Sculpture and decide, "oh, there are no jobs, I'll just do a HDip". It's really insulting to someone who always wanted to teach and did the 4 year course in NCAD. In fact seeing as other practical subjects like Home Ec, PE, Woodwork and Metalwork can only go the 4 year route, and that Art has an awful lot that goes with it to teach, more so than English Irish maths etc... I really it really lucky that a lot or Art Graduates have the opportunity to do a HDip when there are really no jobs at all.

Art Teacher

keithmiketom wrote: »

Actually you are an idiot....... As someone who did the 4 year degree in Art & Design Education. I find it very offensive that someone with a bare pass in their degree thinks that they would be suitable to teach second level students. I have been teaching for 7 years and recently lost my job to redeployment. So if I can't get work, such and applicant would not stand a snowballs chance in hell. My advice is to apply to a UK university for a PGCE, they accept anybody

It is terrible that you have lost your job, but there is no need to vent invective here.
That you have a degree in Art & Design education does not mean that you are superior or have a cause to be offended by this graduate applying for a teaching course.

An art/design Degree ( pass) plus a post grad in education will actually be a higher qualification for this graduate and will achieve a higher rate of pay compared with your degree in art education, irrespective of any honour you may have received from NCAD.

There is no need to advise this graduate to go to the UK for an education , as there are college places here to apply for, unlike jobs. The graduate is entitled to train as a teacher in Ireland, just like we all were.

Most teachers that I have taught with hold only a pass degree allowance! In my case, I didn't even have a degree ( it was a 4 year diploma back then in Art - no degree available), I was not given any degree allowance as a teacher. I had to fight to have it recognized as equivalent to a degree, and deserving of an honours degree allowance ( that was in my ninth year of teaching ).

That you have seven years teaching experience is a very strong point in your favour, to getting new employment - not your degree. I wish you the best because I know what its like, it happened me a lot in my first ten years after graduating. Your experience is worth far more than your grade.

keithmiketom

Art Teacher wrote: »

It is terrible that you have lost your job, but there is no need to vent invective here.
That you have a degree in Art & Design education does not mean that you are superior or have a cause to be offended by this graduate applying for a teaching course.

An art/design Degree ( pass) plus a post grad in education will actually be a higher qualification for this graduate and will achieve a higher rate of pay compared with your degree in art education, irrespective of any honour you may have received from NCAD.

There is no need to advise this graduate to go to the UK for an education , as there are college places here to apply for, unlike jobs. The graduate is entitled to train as a teacher in Ireland, just like we all were.

Most teachers that I have taught with hold only a pass degree allowance! In my case, I didn't even have a degree ( it was a 4 year diploma back then in Art - no degree available), I was not given any degree allowance as a teacher. I had to fight to have it recognized as equivalent to a degree, and deserving of an honours degree allowance ( that was in my ninth year of teaching ).

That you have seven years teaching experience is a very strong point in your favour, to getting new employment - not your degree. I wish you the best because I know what its like, it happened me a lot in my first ten years after graduating. Your experience is worth far more than your grade.

Sorry you are actually wrong, and I would ask you to do some proper research before giving false advice to someone, however naive their aspirations may be. I think it is really irresponsible to give someone false hope like that.

In regards to your comment about a HDip being more qualified to teach then someone who studied 4 years to become a teacher, a HDip is actually Level 8, the same as an Honours Degree, a lot of HDips think it is Level 9, and they are wrong. Again as regards rates of Pay, a BEd Student starts off a rate higher on the scale (point 4- as we have gained more teaching experience) and receives both a HDip and Degree allowance, as the award covers both areas, so with my 1.1 degree (not boasting, just spelling it out) I would get more, as I have an honours degree allowance and an Honours HDip (teaching qualification allowance), and get the full amount available.

Again on top of all this you clearly qualified quite some time ago, back when an Ordinary or Pass Degree was a Diploma. THings have changed an awful lot, and I have been in discussions with people who teach on the various courses in the 3 art colleges where you can study education, and they all tell me that Architects and people with masters are applying and being rejected. It may have been the case when you applied that a pass would get you onto the course, however it is now not the case, as people are more and more educated applying for these courses, for example, I have heard of someone with a Doctorate being turned away. Due to the high number of people applying for the courses, you would more or less need a 1.1 to even be considered for the HDip these days. I advise doing the PGCE in England, as there are a lot of jobs there, and on top of that it is a lot easier to get into if your degree isn't as strong. Trust me I am in contact with a lot of Art Teachers and I do an awful lot for art teachers as well, and I do know my stuff.

I am sorry for calling you an Idiot, I had a snap reaction and it really isn't like me to be so hostile, but to be honest there are no jobs out there, and I would be lucky to get any hours next year, and am currently looking at re-training in web design. The best thing I could advise the OP to do is volunteer themselves to be a dogs body in schools, gaining practical classroom managment experience, however a lot of teachers are not keen on having anyone else in their rooms.

keithmiketom

keithmiketom wrote: »

Sorry you are actually wrong, and I would ask you to do some proper research before giving false advice to someone, however naive their aspirations may be. I think it is really irresponsible to give someone false hope like that.

In regards to your comment about a HDip being more qualified to teach then someone who studied 4 years to become a teacher, a HDip is actually Level 8, the same as an Honours Degree, a lot of HDips think it is Level 9, and they are wrong. Again as regards rates of Pay, a BEd Student starts off a rate higher on the scale (point 4- as we have gained more teaching experience) and receives both a HDip and Degree allowance, as the award covers both areas, so with my 1.1 degree (not boasting, just spelling it out) I would get more, as I have an honours degree allowance and an Honours HDip (teaching qualification allowance), and get the full amount available.

Again on top of all this you clearly qualified quite some time ago, back when an Ordinary or Pass Degree was a Diploma. THings have changed an awful lot, and I have been in discussions with people who teach on the various courses in the 3 art colleges where you can study education, and they all tell me that Architects and people with masters are applying and being rejected. It may have been the case when you applied that a pass would get you onto the course, however it is now not the case, as people are more and more educated applying for these courses, for example, I have heard of someone with a Doctorate being turned away. Due to the high number of people applying for the courses, you would more or less need a 1.1 to even be considered for the HDip these days. I advise doing the PGCE in England, as there are a lot of jobs there, and on top of that it is a lot easier to get into if your degree isn't as strong. Trust me I am in contact with a lot of Art Teachers and I do an awful lot for art teachers as well, and I do know my stuff.

I am sorry for calling you an Idiot, I had a snap reaction and it really isn't like me to be so hostile, but to be honest there are no jobs out there, and I would be lucky to get any hours next year, and am currently looking at re-training in web design. The best thing I could advise the OP to do is volunteer themselves to be a dogs body in schools, gaining practical classroom managment experience, however a lot of teachers are not keen on having anyone else in their rooms.

Oh and on top of all this if she wants to train this year, a place in the UK would be more than guaranteed. all she would have to do when she comes back the the conversion course through the teaching council. It is really not as easy to get into teaching as everyone thinks.

rainbowtrout

keithmiketom wrote: »

In regards to your comment about a HDip being more qualified to teach then someone who studied 4 years to become a teacher, a HDip is actually Level 8, the same as an Honours Degree, a lot of HDips think it is Level 9, and they are wrong. Again as regards rates of Pay, a BEd Student starts off a rate higher on the scale (point 4- as we have gained more teaching experience) and receives both a HDip and Degree allowance, as the award covers both areas, so with my 1.1 degree (not boasting, just spelling it out) I would get more, as I have an honours degree allowance and an Honours HDip (teaching qualification allowance), and get the full amount available.

Actually teachers with either a degree and PDGE/HDip OR teachers who have done a teacher training degree start on Point 3 of the scale, and since this year isn't it Point 1 for new entrants to the scheme?

To confirm what keithmiketom said I have a degree in Science Education myself and anyone who does a teacher training degree gets a degree allowance and a dip allowance.

But I would agree with Art Teacher's point, whether you go the teacher training route from the start or do the degree + PDGE route, both are equally qualified.


And to the OP, if you do the PGDE go into it with your eyes wide open. There are little or no jobs out there. Maybe it would be better for the OP to do their studies the other way around, i.e. get qualification in another subject first and then apply for the dip. That way they have more options for applying to the PDGE rather than just the art colleges.

keithmiketom

If OP is really adamant about Ireland I advise contacting the Head of Department in each of the colleges and asking what she needs to do to get onto the courses

CCAD

LSAD

NCAD

Actually, you would probably be allowed direct entry to Year 2 of the BA in Art & Design Education, but that would be 3 more years as opposed to 2 if you do the HDip (all HDips will be 2 years the year after next). They are your options if you choose to try to train in Ireland

keithmiketom

rainbowtrout wrote: »

Actually teachers with either a degree and PDGE/HDip OR teachers who have done a teacher training degree start on Point 3 of the scale, and since this year isn't it Point 1 for new entrants to the scheme?

To confirm what keithmiketom said I have a degree in Science Education myself and anyone who does a teacher training degree gets a degree allowance and a dip allowance.

But I would agree with Art Teacher's point, whether you go the teacher training route from the start or do the degree + PDGE route, both are equally qualified.


And to the OP, if you do the PGDE go into it with your eyes wide open. There are little or no jobs out there. Maybe it would be better for the OP to do their studies the other way around, i.e. get qualification in another subject first and then apply for the dip. That way they have more options for applying to the PDGE rather than just the art colleges.

The only thing though is to Teach Art, you have to have a HDip/PGDE in Art Education otherwise your Qualification is not recognised in Art, that is why Art Teachers only go through NCAD, CCAD and LSAD, as opposed to NUIM, NUIG, TCD, UCD etc... I had a colleagued who was a qualified teacher of Science and also had an Art Degree but the Teaching Council would not let her teach as a "qualified" Art teacher ad she did not have an Art Teaching Qualification. The same applies to Home Economics.

Art Teacher

The PGDE in Art & Design Education is level 9 the degree in Art & Design Education is level 8 if the brochure for the course is correct. http://www.ncad.ie/faculties/education/arted.shtml

I don't think anything can turn a post graduate course into the the same level as a graduate course even if you got 1;1.

It used to be the case years ago that graduate level teachers did not get the H Dip allowance. That it has changed is good because it was not fair, teachers who had H Dips are not any better than those with education at degree level.

On the other hand, its not fair to suggest as above that art teachers who only have a degree and a pgde would not be suitable to teach the range of skills required for the Leaving Cert. " I find it very offensive that someone with a bare pass in their degree thinks that they would be suitable to teach second level students."

The OP has a degree, this is a considerable achievement, well done! Next year Scribblerdee is going to teach night classes to get experience. I am sure that Dee will make a great art teacher!

keithmiketom

Art Teacher wrote: »

The PGDE in Art & Design Education is level 9 the degree in Art & Design Education is level 8 if the brochure for the course is correct. http://www.ncad.ie/faculties/education/arted.shtml

I don't think anything can turn a post graduate course into the the same level as a graduate course even if you got 1;1.

It used to be the case years ago that graduate level teachers did not get the H Dip allowance. That it has changed is good because it was not fair, teachers who had H Dips are not any better than those with education at degree level.

On the other hand, its not fair to suggest as above that art teachers who only have a degree and a pgde would not be suitable to teach the range of skills required for the Leaving Cert. " I find it very offensive that someone with a bare pass in their degree thinks that they would be suitable to teach second level students."

The OP has a degree, this is a considerable achievement, well done! Next year Scribblerdee is going to teach night classes to get experience. I am sure that Dee will make a great art teacher!

Again the changing of the Name of the course to PGDip is to bring it in line with the other courses. It is not a Masters or a 2 year Post grad so it is still level 8 see diagram linked. Or if it has changed recently, I would be very concerned/confused about this, and will research this further, but in relation to the HDip in Cork and Limerick, they are both still very definitely Level 8.
I am glad we all get these allowances and it is great that our hard work is awarded. Similarly I agree that getting a degree is a wonderful achievement, however it is only a stepping stone to where you claim to want to go and hopefully the advice given can help get you there, but it will be a very long, hard road, and further study and experience is definitely needed. there will be a conference on Art Education in October which the OP may like to attend, as it is open to everyone.

DearJane

keithmiketom wrote: »

I advise doing the PGCE in England, as there are a lot of jobs there, and on top of that it is a lot easier to get into if your degree isn't as strong. Trust me I am in contact with a lot of Art Teachers and I do an awful lot for art teachers as well, and I do know my stuff.

I found this thread when looking for advice on whether to accept a place on the NCAD Art Education Undergrad or to do my Fine Art Undergrad in NI followed by a PGCE. I graduated in Law in 2005 but have always wanted to be an Art Teacher so I started re-training last year. I think I have a fair bit of knowledge about the UK PGCE process as it stands (lots of changes happening with the new coalition government) so would like to point out that it is not as easy to get into an Art PGCE in the UK as KeithMikeTom thinks - they will 'not take anyone'. Art PGCE places were cut from over 700 to just over 300 for the 2011 intake and although the minimum entry requirements state that a 2.2 degree is required the competition is so fierce that realistically you will need to have at least a 2.1 AND clearly defined, strong work experience. By this I mean 2-3 weeks volunteering in secondary schools will not be sufficient - any applicants that I've known to get through this year have been working for at least 1 year since graduation in an education related position such as art department technicians, playgroup leaders or for community arts groups.

The Minister for Education, Michael Gove, has been very vocal about improving the calibre of graduates accepted onto the PGCE schemes so I suspect that the official minimum entry requirements will be raised for the 2012 intake. They're also talking about 'taking teacher training back to the classroom' so there's probably going to be major shake-ups in how the PGCE's are structured in the next year or two.

The number of UK PGCE places available compared to the Irish market might work in your favour though so have a look at what is available www.gttr.ac.uk. You can only apply for 5 places so I would advise you to contact ALL providers and ask them whether they would consider your profile as sufficient. As your application only goes to one choice at a time, depending on your preferences, make sure you put the Uni that you have the most chance of getting into as your 1st choice or you could be rejected too late in the cycle to get a place on your other choices. They fill up quickly so apply in September/October.

Try to get into some type of regular work experience position in the meantime and work hard to make this your strong selling point. If teaching is what you want then stay positive - you will make it happen one way or the other.

keithmiketom

DearJane wrote: »

I found this thread when looking for advice on whether to accept a place on the NCAD Art Education Undergrad or to do my Fine Art Undergrad in NI followed by a PGCE. I graduated in Law in 2005 but have always wanted to be an Art Teacher so I started re-training last year. I think I have a fair bit of knowledge about the UK PGCE process as it stands (lots of changes happening with the new coalition government) so would like to point out that it is not as easy to get into an Art PGCE in the UK as KeithMikeTom thinks - they will 'not take anyone'. Art PGCE places were cut from over 700 to just over 300 for the 2011 intake and although the minimum entry requirements state that a 2.2 degree is required the competition is so fierce that realistically you will need to have at least a 2.1 AND clearly defined, strong work experience. By this I mean 2-3 weeks volunteering in secondary schools will not be sufficient - any applicants that I've known to get through this year have been working for at least 1 year since graduation in an education related position such as art department technicians, playgroup leaders or for community arts groups.

The Minister for Education, Michael Gove, has been very vocal about improving the calibre of graduates accepted onto the PGCE schemes so I suspect that the official minimum entry requirements will be raised for the 2012 intake. They're also talking about 'taking teacher training back to the classroom' so there's probably going to be major shake-ups in how the PGCE's are structured in the next year or two.

The number of UK PGCE places available compared to the Irish market might work in your favour though so have a look at what is available www.gttr.ac.uk. You can only apply for 5 places so I would advise you to contact ALL providers and ask them whether they would consider your profile as sufficient. As your application only goes to one choice at a time, depending on your preferences, make sure you put the Uni that you have the most chance of getting into as your 1st choice or you could be rejected too late in the cycle to get a place on your other choices. They fill up quickly so apply in September/October.

Try to get into some type of regular work experience position in the meantime and work hard to make this your strong selling point. If teaching is what you want then stay positive - you will make it happen one way or the other.

DearJane, things have obviously changed since I was teaching in the UK in 2005, and not having lived there in a while, I must apologies I was not up to speed on the changes being implemented. As regards what you should do I would despite the changes in the course, I would recommend applying for the Undergrad In NCAD, as opposed to a Fine Art Undergrad and doing a HDIP/PGCE. The Irish Qualification allows you to teach almost all over the world, and is automatically accepted in the UK with the Teaching Board. The reverse is not true with a PGCE here, where you have to do several exams to covert your qualification. On top of that you may not get your HDip or Training allowance in full as many UK PGCE course only give a PASS or FAIL grade. if this is the case with the course you are considering, you will only get the lower rate of a HDip allowance.

Art Teacher

Thanks for the link to the ATA conference KeithMT.Its great to find another art teacher on boards. The situation is a degree is level 8, a post grad dip is level 9 ( minor award) a masters is level( 9 major award.)

I reckon that dearjane should take the course in NCAD (art education degree)if is she is really sure that she wants to teach.

DearJane

Thanks Mike and Art Teacher – all very confusing as I’m not as familiar with the ROI Education system as I would like. What is the training allowance?

I’m really fortunate to have been offered a place on the NCAD Art Education Undergrad for 2011 entry and also a place on the University of Ulster Fine Art Undergrad. Trying to get as much information about which will be the best option for me before I decide.

As I already hold a degree I am not entitled to any type of funding assistance and will have to pay all tuition fees myself (E5900/year for NCAD and £3350/year for UU plus whatever the PGCE is in 3 years time). I did my foundation year in another college so will be skipping the NCAD core year with direct entry into year 2 – but does that still leave me with 3 or 4 years to complete?

I’m from Northern Ireland but am prepared to work wherever I can get a job – I know that realistically there will not be a job for me in ROI on completion of my degree. Is it easy enough to convert to the UK system - surely there must be some re-training required?

Would love to take the time to do my Fine Art degree and spend time developing myself as an artist but at the end of the day I want to teach and get back into full-time employment as soon as possible – being a poor student is 10 times worse the 2nd time around! I can see how I could manage the UU fees but the NCAD fees will be a real push to meet. And then again I’m not sure what the situation will be for UK Art PGCE’s in 3 years time considering the changes the government are making now.

I’m very very confused so any advice would be appreciated!

Art Teacher

What do you mean by training allowance? A student teacher will not get paid a allowance in ROI.

DearJane

keithmiketom wrote: »

DOn top of that you may not get your HDip or Training allowance in full as many UK PGCE course only give a PASS or FAIL grade. if this is the case with the course you are considering, you will only get the lower rate of a HDip allowance.

I meant what Keithmiketom says here about the 'HDip or training allowance' - I don't know what this is.

Art Teacher

Okay, I know what you mean - Ill try to explain.

Teachers are paid on a scale from 1 to 25.
All new teachers start now on scale 1 and for every year they work they move up a point on the scale, up to a max of 25.

It used to be that teachers who had a HDip/ other teaching qualification got to start on scale 3, but unfortunately this has changed this year.

About your choice - Fine Art in Belfast or Art education in Dublin, its a tough choice to make.
The Art college in Belfast has a really good fine art course and if you aspire to be an artist then this is the way to go. Are you going to be an artist that teaches - go this way - do fine art then, teaching afterwards.

If youre certain that you want to teach, and if thats youre primary goal do the art education first. You can always return to student fine art later, probably at MA level.

keithmiketom

Art Teacher wrote: »

Okay, I know what you mean - Ill try to explain.

Teachers are paid on a scale from 1 to 25.
All new teachers start now on scale 1 and for every year they work they move up a point on the scale, up to a max of 25.

It used to be that teachers who had a HDip/ other teaching qualification got to start on scale 3, but unfortunately this has changed this year.

About your choice - Fine Art in Belfast or Art education in Dublin, its a tough choice to make.
The Art college in Belfast has a really good fine art course and if you aspire to be an artist then this is the way to go. Are you going to be an artist that teaches - go this way - do fine art then, teaching afterwards.

If youre certain that you want to teach, and if thats youre primary goal do the art education first. You can always return to student fine art later, probably at MA level.

Sorry Yeah the HDip allowance is something you get in your pay packet, something you don't get at all in the UK, which, as far as I remember is a 4 point scale until you take on "responsibilities" then your renumeration goes up.

As regards the course choice it is a tough decision. If you are unemployed and living in ROI you can apply to NCAD via the Back to Education allowance (I was going to do this to do an Undergrad again, but have instead opted to go the MA route next year). The Back to Education is basically dole and rent allowance while you are in college and as far as I remember you are allowed to work 20 hours a week. I don't know if you qualify for this, but it is no harm applying. I would also Email the head of Education in NCAD and ask his advice, he's really brilliant and will no doubt listen to your concerns and point you in the right direction, you can PM me if you like and I will try to offer more advice. The difference between the Irish Qualification (Degree) and HDip is in the UK you don't have to do a qualification year, as you already have notched up 3 years of training, those doing the one year of training do. As well the Education course in NCAD has 2 days studio practice. I specialise in Graphic Design and have had some success doing freelancing work. I know a lot of people I graduated with Painted too. the 4 studio areas when I was there was Graphics, Painting, Textiles and Ceramics, though I think this has changed slightly.

Again with getting teaching posts in the UK there are a great many agencies you can apply through, which I would recommend if you are thinking of moving from NI to GB or IRL to GB. however, the pay is a little less than rates here (I think Uk starting rate is £21k and £25k in London Fringes.

Feel free to PM me if you want to know more about hte course

spurious

There are plenty of fine teachers of all sorts of subjects in this country with pass degrees.
Being good at something has never been any guarantee you will be good at teaching it.

gaeilgebeo

spurious wrote: »

There are plenty of fine teachers of all sorts of subjects in this country with pass degrees.
Being good at something has never been any guarantee you will be good at teaching it.

I was about to post the exact same thing.
Results in your degree does not equate to a good teacher.
You can have a first class honours degree,masters,Phd and still not be able to control a class of 30 teenagers much less be an effective teacher.

I am optimistic

Just wondering how you're getting on? I have applied for Post Grad this year and will hear back for interviews this month.

Karpops

keithmiketom wrote: »

Again the changing of the Name of the course to PGDip is to bring it in line with the other courses. It is not a Masters or a 2 year Post grad so it is still level 8 see diagram linked. Or if it has changed recently, I would be very concerned/confused about this, and will research this further, but in relation to the HDip in Cork and Limerick, they are both still very definitely Level 8.
I am glad we all get these allowances and it is great that our hard work is awarded. Similarly I agree that getting a degree is a wonderful achievement, however it is only a stepping stone to where you claim to want to go and hopefully the advice given can help get you there, but it will be a very long, hard road, and further study and experience is definitely needed. there will be a conference on Art Education in October which the OP may like to attend, as it is open to everyone.

I'm starting to think it wasn't redeployment that cost you a job, but your attitude. For a teacher, you have to be the most rude, unhelpful, condescending person I have ever come across. If I was your student, I'd be afraid to ask you for help. Try being a little more understanding and encouraging FFS, being a teacher involves enriching people's minds and encouraging their intellectual development, not insulting their ability and kicking their ambitions in the balls.

Brineybay

Hi there,

Does anyone know whether I would still need to do the Hdip for teaching art in schools or lecturing as I have an MFA in fine art and another MFA in progress specialised in painting?

demar

I think you need a HDip to teach in schools as it is teacher training, something a masters or even a doctorate are not?