Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip Rumours Thread 2011/2012

Pro. F

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

i like nani he is a good player but as far as who's better etc well its just to opinion because you can throw all nani's stats for this season in my face but the point is park and valencia are more reliable and overall better for the team there tracking back and constant hounding of the opposition players is worth its weight in gold

You are trying to weasel out of your previous claims now. You claimed Nani couldn't clear the first man with a cross, was inconsistent, didn't link up as well with the strikers as Valencia, had lost his goal scoring touch, was only good in the first half of the season and didn't contribute in the crucial games in the season. All of which has been shown to be complete bollocks.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

they proved this by being the preferred wingers in the business end of the season where the pressure might of got to nani just like it did at anfeild and when he came on against barca in the final when he panicked in the box and cost us a goal.

He wasn't at fault for the goal in the final. This has already been discussed and shown in this thread recently with the replays. You need to watch the replay again. Nani wins the ball, Carrick panics and blasts it back at Nani and so the Barca player can nip in and win it back.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

since you seem to think you are the martin tyler of this thread go fetch nani's stats from previous seasons aswell as his performances in big games ..

Why don't you go look out these stats that you think prove your point? There is no evidence that supports your argument. If you want to prove otherwise you will need to find it and present it here yourself.

Jazzy

oh, hadnt got an arrow beside the new thread in the main menu.

anyhow, you guys suck! :pac:



also - jonny evans, keep or sell?

Discodog

I would not be surprised if Berba goes but I was expected him to be used as part of a deal to get us someone else. I also wouldn't be surprised if Park or Nani are sold.

The annoying thing is that it looked as if we could get our transfer dealing done & dusted early but now it looks like they will drag on to the end.

kraggy

Why do some of you think Nani will be sold? Wasn't he player of the season for ye?

MagicMarker

It seems Varane has opted to go to Real Madrid, according to L'Equipe...

Google translation...

Team Info. Raphael Varane made ​​his choice. The young prodigy RC Lens, which is currently the tray will engage with Real Madrid. Reportedly, the central defender, international Hopes, will commit to five seasons, against an allowance of 10 million euros. The Madrid club wrote on Tuesday the details inherent in his contract. The formalization of the commitment should be involved in the day before the presentation of the player, not until early August, returning from the tour of the Real United States and China.

Not really surprising, I don't see why we would want him anyway.

homerjay2005

looks like all the talk of a great clear out are true then, which is surprising considering that we won the league fairly easily and got to the CL final, unbeaten...

it was needed of course with 3 retirements and 3 or 4 players who were passengers, but the level of agressiveness is surprising...

hopefully now we will kick on and get in 2 or 3 more players that we need to improve the squad but more importantly, the first 11.

not convinced yet berba going to psg is a done deal.

Smegball

I haven't seen one link for Berba to PSG. I'm not buying it.

homerjay2005

Smegball wrote: »

I haven't seen one link for Berba to PSG. I'm not buying it.

Exactly, it came from one of the fanzines on twitter, republic of mancunia or something like that. suddenly a journalist in france has it.....

now it may happen, they interest is supposidly there, but ive not seen anything apart from another twitter rumour that its agreed.....


berba is one of the main lads up on the firing line for the chop, but that does not mean he will leave. if no replacement, then he wont leave, unless fergie really trusts in danny welbeck.

Vanbis

My opinion on Berbatov is that if Real Madrid sign Neymar then Benzema will be available if he is not already and that both Manutd and Arsenal will make a move. All the big clubs will not let players of their move until replacements are confirmed and agreed.

jameshayes

What happened to all that speculation on the following:

John O'Shea
Darron Gibson
PIG
Wes Brown

20 Times 20 Times

Hope the speculation about JOS never raises its ugly head again.

PHB

Apparently the club have denied the PSG Berbatov rumour, which makes me very happy.

Varane seems to be gone to Madrid, which I guess makes sense considering how stocked we are in the CB position.

All in all, I'm waiting on the signing of someone like Modric/Nasri. If we making any central midfielder signing, I'll be extremely confident about next season. If we also sign a Young/Sanchez style player, I will be very very happy. (Assuming that De Gea signs once the agent switch happens).

As for Nani, imo he is better on the right wing that Valencia. However, Nani is better on the left than Valencia is. So it makes sense to put them there. Should we sign a proper central midfielder, I expect our forward line to become much more fluid.

The more I think about the central midfielder situation, the more I would be somewhat happy if Fergie was simply putting his faith in Anderson. If he is, I respect that and will be fine for it. The problem for me arises is if we are infact putting our faith in a combination of Giggs and Carrick. That's my fear.

jameshayes

PHB wrote: »

The more I think about the central midfielder situation, the more I would be somewhat happy if Fergie was simply putting his faith in Anderson.

was saying this to the lads yesterday - when ando gets a string of games in a row he can be outstanding

FutureGuy

jameshayes wrote: »

was saying this to the lads yesterday - when ando gets a string of games in a row he can be outstanding

I think Anderson will be a first choice CM at the start of the season and will get a run of games. He'll either sink or swim, but I reckon it will be the latter.

SK1979

It will definitely be interesting to see how Ando comes through a full pre-season. He has the potential and has shown flashes that he could be good enough for us.

Plus, if and this is a big IF, SAF might think that some of the kids are going to be good enough, he might go with them. Aside from Morrison, Tunnicliffe and Pogba that everyone knows about, Davide Petrucci is worth keeping an eye on. When I used to watch him a couple of years ago he was outstanding, then he got a serious injury and is only on the way back but he looked very promising.

I really hope we sign at least one CM, like Banega, Martinez, even Fellaini, but if we dont, I think it will be because SAF thinks some of those kids might break through this year.

PHB

jameshayes wrote: »

was saying this to the lads yesterday - when ando gets a string of games in a row he can be outstanding

Absolutely. But the key thing has to be, does Fergie actually trust him? He needs to be first choice, and needs to be given a run of games to get to that level. If Fergie thinks he'll get there by just popping in and out etc., I'm not sure how well it will go.

grames_bond

God all these transfer rumours are killing me! I wish we could just hurry up and stop giving me a heart attack!!

question: arent we supposed to have a different "word" on the back of the badge for the new season (believe this year) anyone remind me what it is?

smokedeels

Smegball wrote: »

I haven't seen one link for Berba to PSG. I'm not buying it.

howardnurse Howard Nurse



Dimitar #Berbatov is NOT about to join PSG from #MUFC contrary to reports. Confirmed by club a few moments ago. #BBCFootball

and

howardnurse


@quinnydreddiva @nickcoppack Yes, confirmed by #MUFC

41 minutes ago

It just means that link was B.S, the Berba issue will drag on the club until the Club extend his contract.

It's new club or new contact, they won't throw 10/15m away.

TheTownie

Liam O wrote: »

you haven't refuted anything I've said.

I have two basic points, I'm ignoring certain parts as they just take away from my points.

Liam O wrote: »

You said he lacks defensive discipline, he just plain doesn't.

He gets his body back into position but I don't think tries hard enough to actually get the ball back for the team.

Liam O wrote: »

you said he overplays, well obviously if he's setting up goals and scoring in nearly every game he's right to 'overplay'.

Its a fine line but he does, on occasions, over complicate the move. The timing of a cross is as important as the quality of it. If you have three players rushing into the box, you want them to meet the ball on the run as they will have more momentum than the defender thus having a better chance of beating him to the ball and also the defender wouldn't be exactly sure of the position of the attacker in the box.

So Nani, (I must stress again) on occasions, has delayed so much that the players rushing into the box are now just standing there waiting for something to happen but now have no momentum and the defence has organised itself and knows exactly where everyone is.

Liam O wrote: »

You used Rooney's feelings as a gauge to his limitations. Again, Rooney is as big a ball hog as anyone, he's going to be disappointed he doesn't get the ball.

No whether Rooney is annoyed by Nani or not, is separate to my feelings. He happens to share my feelings

Liam O wrote: »

You say if he starts scoring as much as Ronaldo you'll overlook it. He creates more goals than Ronaldo ever came close to, he even did it when Ronaldo was at the club. Why can't you overlook his limitations then?

Goals are goals, assists lead to goals so you can combined the two together to come up with a figure that represents how many goals a player has scored/set-up for the team. Now that figure for Ronaldo would be a lot higher, in fact its freakishly high. Only Messi is on a par with it.

So if Nani reaches the heights of Ronaldo or Messi, be it with more assists than goals or more goals than assists but the combined stat is the same as those mentioned above, then I'll give Nani free license to do as he pleases.

Liam O wrote: »

I never said he infuriates? He infuriates for the fact he overdoes it at times when he's tackled but with the amount he's absolutely hacked I don't blame him tbh. His overall play is not going to always come off but it is essential to the success of the team and he always produces at least one moment of magic in a game that makes a difference.

First line of your last paragraph is where you said it but if you want to change your stance thats fine.

Play-acting is another argument I'd rather not get in to at the moment.

I will again say he has had his best season for us but I want to see him improve upon it, not be satisfied with the level he is at.

Pro. F wrote: »

He only lacks defensive discipline in comparison to Valencia and Park, two of the best defensive wingers around. He has a perfectly normal level of defensiveness for a winger at this level.

Well in a 442 or 4411, whatever you want to call our usual formation, you have more responsibility as a winger than you wouldn't have in say a 433.

Anyway regardless of formation, as we strive to be the best team in Europe and the world, its only natural to look at the team that is currently the best, Barca, and try to learn from their success. All of their 10 outfield players do whatever it takes to get the ball back once they lose it so why shouldn't we try and instill the same mentality into our players?

VW 1

grames_bond wrote: »

God all these transfer rumours are killing me! I wish we could just hurry up and stop giving me a heart attack!!

question: arent we supposed to have a different "word" on the back of the badge for the new season (believe this year) anyone remind me what it is?

Relentless

Backstreet Moyes

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

Alright i cant believe how some peoples heads are high up in the clouds as far as how actually good of player nani is, i read above he is now a level below messi and ronaldo wait a minute wouldnt a rooney, fabergas, inesta or snider type player fit that level so lets gets this straight nani is in the same bracket as the players i just mentioned now? please be realistic he's had 1 good season nothing special or breath taking by any means.



who are you to questions anyone's opinion of who's a better a player or not.

try again? come on mate come of it.

since you seem to think you are the martin tyler of this thread go fetch nani's stats from previous seasons aswell as his performances in big games ..



matter of opinion, mine is he's hands down a better player than nani both attacking and defensively.



LOL your clueless, he still ended up with over 10 goals this season aswell as several assists.



He is just a better player no matter where he plays the fact he can play on the wing makes my point, he is actually an intelligent player something nani isnt, your claiming silvia is better through the center ofcourse he is when do we ever play nani through the center?



ofcourse they are different players, they all are LOL. They all have different playing styles if valencia was the same player as nani do you think fergie would have dropped him? LOL



mark my words bale will have a bigger impact in english football than nani ever will, i think most united fans would pick a 21 year old with huge potential over a 25 year old who is really tried and tested and is reaching his max as far as potential.if you dont believe me ask fergie why he signed young.

look im finishing it with this because i couldn't be arsed answering all the reply's.

i like nani he is a good player but as far as who's better etc well its just to opinion because you can throw all nani's stats for this season in my face but the point is park and valencia are more reliable and overall better for the team there tracking back and constant hounding of the opposition players is worth its weight in gold they proved this by being the preferred wingers in the business end of the season where the pressure might of got to nani just like it did at anfeild and when he came on against barca in the final when he panicked in the box and cost us a goal.

Nani is a level below Ronaldo and Messi yes and why are you comparing him with cm's and a striker. Nani is a winger and he is a level below the two mentioned but he is also one of the best in the world. I thought carrying the league champions through most of the season would be breathtaking, but thats not good enough for you strange.

Nobody is questioning your opinion its called debating which you do on soccer forums. You have made ridicolous statements about Nani and everytime someone has pointed out a reason to squash your claim you have backtracked or ignored it.

How exactly do you assess Nani's stats in big games. What do you class as a big game. A game agaisnt the top 4 or when your team cant do anything and you find a piece of magic to win the game. Would you not class a big game as sneaking 3 points when you look like drawing. Also you have been giving the stats of Nani the past 2 seasons but again you seem to ignore them.

Again you have been giving reasons why Nani is better going forward. Valencia is more of a work horse but Nani is much more gifted on the ball and creates more chances and scores more goals.

On Malouda as already stated he had a good first 10 games and done nothing after it, but you claim Nani inconsistent because of only having half a good season. Do you not see the problem here your praising Malouda for having a good few games and calling Nani inconsistent for having a better season than Malouda.

On Silva we are talking about wingers. Nani is a better winger than Silva as you basically admitted. Silva is better through the centre the reason Nani doesnt play in the centre is because he is a better winger. I dont see your point you would rather take Nani out of his best position and play him in an unfamiliar position i dont understand your logic there.

On Park well claiming a good squad player is better than our best player last season because he has great work rate is well not lol but i had a little smirk. All the lol's just wondering are you really laighing out loud to comments made if so you should probably never watch a comedy it might be too much for you, you might ROFL which i heard can cause injury so just be careful.

On Bale yes he is a great talent but he has been at Spurs years and has done nothing compared to Nani. I dont again see the logic of comparing a young talent to a proven excellent winger. I have no doubt he will go onto be an excellent player, but your point was he is better than Nani and now its he will have a bigger impact than Nani. He might but he has a way to go.

Would you not rather have your most creative player too add balance to the team. Again if you watched United this season you would notice how much defensive duty Nani does. Not as much as the other 2 but again he creates alot more chances and scores more goals. Having two workhorses might be alright if your playing for a draw but imo having your most creative winger playing increases your chances of winning, which United aim to do every game. Again you are singling Nani out for poor performances in those 2 games without admitting all the players were poor. Watch Barca's goal is it Nani's fault the ball hit is back. So much for Valencia's discipline he was awful against Barca but again you bring up Nani while Valencia could have been sent off twice for his fouling. I rate Valencia but i rate Nani alot more. If you dont dislike Nani than i can only assume you only started watching United the last few games of the season and missed the start of the season.

VW 1

TheTownie wrote: »

I have two basic points, I'm ignoring certain parts as they just take away from my points.



He gets his body back into position but I don't think tries hard enough to actually get the ball back for the team. How can you have your body in position but not be trying? Maybe I am missing the point on this one.



Its a fine line but he does, on occasions, over complicate the move. The timing of a cross is as important as the quality of it. If you have three players rushing into the box, you want them to meet the ball on the run as they will have more momentum than the defender thus having a better chance of beating him to the ball and also the defender wouldn't be exactly sure of the position of the attacker in the box.
Generally the idea when defending or pressing is to cover off the options available to the attacking player, so yes the defender would have an idea of where the striker in the box is and do his best to shut that route off to the winger.

So Nani, (I must stress again) on occasions, has delayed so much that the players rushing into the box are now just standing there waiting for something to happen but now have no momentum and the defence has organised itself and knows exactly where everyone is.
Perhaps on these occasions he feels that he would be unable to deliver a ball into the box and is waiting a more opportune moment to do so?



No whether Rooney is annoyed by Nani or not, is separate to my feelings. He happens to share my feelings



Goals are goals, assists lead to goals so you can combined the two together to come up with a figure that represents how many goals a player has scored/set-up for the team. Now that figure for Ronaldo would be a lot higher, in fact its freakishly high. Only Messi is on a par with it.
Nani for the last two seasons is probably as far from Valencia in this regard, as Ronaldo is for Nani.

So if Nani reaches the heights of Ronaldo or Messi, be it with more assists than goals or more goals than assists but the combined stat is the same as those mentioned above, then I'll give Nani free license to do as he pleases.



First line of your last paragraph is where you said it but if you want to change your stance thats fine.

Play-acting is another argument I'd rather not get in to at the moment.

I will again say he has had his best season for us but I want to see him improve upon it, not be satisfied with the level he is at.



Well in a 442 or 4411, whatever you want to call our usual formation, you have more responsibility as a winger than you wouldn't have in say a 433.

Anyway regardless of formation, as we strive to be the best team in Europe and the world, its only natural to look at the team that is currently the best, Barca, and try to learn from their success. All of their 10 outfield players do whatever it takes to get the ball back once they lose it so why shouldn't we try and instill the same mentality into our players?
No team does this like Barca, it is something that every team in world football should aspire to. The difference is Barca use so little energy because of their ball retention, this is what enables the high tempo pressing for the full 90 mins compared to the 20-30 mins most other teams can handle.

Not meaning to wade into the argument but just outlining some of my views on your points. For what its worth the defensive side of Nani's game is vastly underrated due to his flair and willingness to get forward. He wouldnt be played alongside Rafael for most of the season who is extremly attacking, if he didnt do a job defensively as we would be left horribly exposed down our right flank.

TheTownie

Thanks for doing one big quote so I can't quote you easily ye git! :P

How can you have your body in position but not be trying? Maybe I am missing the point on this one.

Just as a player has an attacking position they also have a defensive position where they should be when the team doesn't have the ball.

Not every player puts in the same effort to nick/intercept/tackle to get the ball back. I hope that clears it up for you.

Generally the idea when defending or pressing is to cover off the options available to the attacking player, so yes the defender would have an idea of where the striker in the box is and do his best to shut that route off to the winger.

My example was of three players who are streaming into the box. Now if a cross comes in as the players are entering the box the defenders will do their best to pick them up but the attacker has the clear advantage due to his momentum and if the opposite full back is out of position (which does happen a lot) then the CB will in fact be outnumbered.

Think of corners. Its the exact same hence why you scores goals from corners as attacker have the advantage of a run up. The only attacker who stands still in the box is the player trying to block the goalie.

Perhaps on these occasions he feels that he would be unable to deliver a ball into the box and is waiting a more opportune moment to do so?

I don't think its a case of whether or not he can cross it, I think its a case of him deciding when he wants to put the cross in. I feel, at times, he makes the wrong decision. Again he does make the right calls at times too. I think he improve upon this and make the right decision more often.

Nani for the last two seasons is probably as far from Valencia in this regard, as Ronaldo is for Nani.

Nani aspires to be the best player in the world thus his barometer is not what Valencia is achieving but the likes of Messi and Ronaldo.

No team does this like Barca, it is something that every team in world football should aspire to. The difference is Barca use so little energy because of their ball retention, this is what enables the high tempo pressing for the full 90 mins compared to the 20-30 mins most other teams can handle.

So then the question is what makes them so good at ball retention? CM's are the crucial cog in that wheel hence why others and I want us to sign a player to help us in that department.

VW 1 wrote: »

Not meaning to wade into the argument but just outlining some of my views on your points. For what its worth the defensive side of Nani's game is vastly underrated due to his flair and willingness to get forward. He wouldnt be played alongside Rafael for most of the season who is extremly attacking, if he didnt do a job defensively as we would be left horribly exposed down our right flank.

Thats fair enough. I think it could be better.

MagicMarker

Rumoured on Twitter that Sneijder wants to come to UTD, quoting the daily star as the source, but I can't check their website in work.

Also rumours that Young will be signing 11m + Macheda, sounds like total BS though.

Jax Teller

Even macheda on loan to Villa for the year would be good move for him.

Backstreet Moyes

Wont happen but would love to see for a Carling Cup game next season. I get quite excited looking at that.

De Gea

Rafael Evans Smalling Fabio


Jones

Pogba Tunnicliffe


Morisson Wellbeck


Macheda

TheTownie

MagicMarker wrote: »

Rumoured on Twitter that Sneijder wants to come to UTD, quoting the daily star as the source, but I can't check their website in work.

Also rumours that Young will be signing 11m + Macheda, sounds like total BS though.

The only story I see in the Daily Star is one about City rivaling Utd for Sneijder. No quotes or anything in it.

homerjay2005

jameshayes wrote: »

What happened to all that speculation on the following:

John O'Shea
Darron Gibson
PIG
Wes Brown

i expect -

O Shea - to stay.
Gibson - done deal with sunderland
PIG - will leave, probably for free and i think west brom/fulham is likely, maybe villa with one or 2 german sides in for him.
Brown - everton is a likely destination for him.

some lad has set up an ashley young account on twitter. jaysus, its pathetic, the worse attempted fake ive ever seen. and idiots are following him and believing it.

Cypher_sounds

I dont know how ye do it checking all the rubbish rumours about players that we are supposedly to have made an offer for and have interest in my head would be melted, I'm not bothered opening links these days because of all the bullshi* that is generated by twitter and gutter newspaper talk.

Looking forward to seeing confirmation of a few signings on the United website in the coming weeks then i will make a mad judgement on the players we will have bought:pac:

Liam O

TheTownie wrote: »

So if Nani reaches the heights of Ronaldo or Messi, be it with more assists than goals or more goals than assists but the combined stat is the same as those mentioned above, then I'll give Nani free license to do as he pleases.

Anyway regardless of formation, as we strive to be the best team in Europe and the world, its only natural to look at the team that is currently the best, Barca, and try to learn from their success. All of their 10 outfield players do whatever it takes to get the ball back once they lose it so why shouldn't we try and instill the same mentality into our players?

Others have dealt with your other points I'll deal with these. Basically you are saying that Nani, to be good enough for United to give him freedome has to either score or set up 50+ goals in a season. A feat that no player has ever come close to in the PL. He scored and assisted more than Bale, Malouda, Nasri (although he generally plays out of position) and every other winger in the PL. But that's not good enough to trust that he is doing the right thing.

He obviously can improve, so can every player. He has arguably improved more than every player in the league both in his defensive and attacking work so I don't see why that would be something used as a stick to beat him with?

VW 1

TheTownie wrote: »

Thanks for doing one big quote so I can't quote you easily ye git! :P

Sorry, I will make it easier this time!:D

TheTownie wrote: »

Just as a player has an attacking position they also have a defensive position where they should be when the team doesn't have the ball.

Not every player puts in the same effort to nick/intercept/tackle to get the ball back. I hope that clears it up for you.

Thats fair enough, again differing opinions, nothing can be conclusively proved and I'm guessing neither will change the others mind on this point.

TheTownie wrote: »

My example was of three players who are streaming into the box. Now if a cross comes in as the players are entering the box the defenders will do their best to pick them up but the attacker has the clear advantage due to his momentum and if the opposite full back is out of position (which does happen a lot) then the CB will in fact be outnumbered.

Think of corners. Its the exact same hence why you scores goals from corners as attacker have the advantage of a run up. The only attacker who stands still in the box is the player trying to block the goalie.

Understood and agreed

TheTownie wrote: »

I don't think its a case of whether or not he can cross it, I think its a case of him deciding when he wants to put the cross in. I feel, at times, he makes the wrong decision. Again he does make the right calls at times too. I think he improve upon this and make the right decision more often.

Last season his assists were 18. Season before 10. Maybe next year it will be 25, as he gets older his decision making appears to be improving which is what we look for/hope for/expect from him considering who he plays for and the experience he is surrounded by.

TheTownie wrote: »

Nani aspires to be the best player in the world thus his barometer is not what Valencia is achieving but the likes of Messi and Ronaldo.

Dont we all aspire to be the best player in the world? My point was taking goals plus assists, Ronaldo>>>Nani>>>Valencia. For every bit that Ronaldo is better than Nani, Nani is that much better than Valencia. I stress for this point that it is going on the goals/assists stats alone. FWIW I think Valencia is just as effective a player as Nani and they compliment each other well as options.

TheTownie wrote: »

So then the question is what makes them so good at ball retention? CM's are the crucial cog in that wheel hence why others and I want us to sign a player to help us in that department.

I dont think you will get anyone disagreeing with you on this, obviously it is the ease on the ball coupled with the pass and move which they are taught at La Masia and the superb technical ability. If you can figure out how to replicate this, a football club will pay you millions per year to impart your knowledge to the players! I also hope we sign a ball playing creative combatitive CM lol If only we could attain one.

parker kent

I'm excited by the prospect of Anderson having a pre-season. I think he has the potential to be a really good midfielder. His first full pre-season at United should make a huge difference to his fitness and performances.

Although I still think another player who plays central midfield with a similar style to Giggs would be a great addition to the squad. Somebody to match his creativity in the middle is needed IMO.

keane2097

VW 1 wrote: »

My point was taking goals plus assists, Ronaldo>>>Nani>>>Valencia.

This is why stats should be left out of these discussions.

Liam O

keane2097 wrote: »

This is why stats should be left out of these discussions.

Nani has much greater output than Valencia. If Valencia was solely an offensive winger then he'd have a lot to answer for imo, it's just he has an excellent overall game that really helps out the RB that makes him so useful. Valencia makes a tonne of bad decisions and loses the ball a lot, is that suddenly ok because he's more direct than Nani?

VW 1

keane2097 wrote: »

This is why stats should be left out of these discussions.

Agreed 100%

gracehopper

I think in this country and in england we are conditioned to basically despise players who are fickle, childish and petulant. Nani, we could argue is all 3 of those but he still an awesome player. They seem to not mind it as much in Europe as long as the player performs. We like honest types such as Scholes and Valencia as opposed to Nani and Busquetts.

Valencia is more direct and works better with Rooney than Nani, that is plain to see when you watch United.

Vic Vinegar

gracehopper wrote: »

Valencia is more direct and works better with Rooney than Nani, that is plain to see when you watch United.

That's correct in some ways. Valencia, however, is never gonna score from 30 yards out of the blue or do a piece of unreal skill to get past people (like Nani at Arsenal)

They're both class players and both play for us.... i'm happy with that.

v3ttel

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

he gets plenty of the ball when he is playing so he should really do a lot more

That is an lolworthy comment. He "should really do a lot more", when he provided more assists than ANY other player in the league. If he should "do a lot more", what does that mean for the rest of the league?

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

8 times out of ten he will fail to deliver a good cross especially on corners.

If you're going to use stats to back up an argument, the least you could do is not make them up.

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

im not picking on him but i just think he is average

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

he is an excellent player to have in our team

mufcboy1999 wrote: »

LOL your clueless

I really hope the irony of this is not lost on you.

Backstreet Moyes

gracehopper wrote: »

I think in this country and in england we are conditioned to basically despise players who are fickle, childish and petulant. Nani, we could argue is all 3 of those but he still an awesome player. They seem to not mind it as much in Europe as long as the player performs. We like honest types such as Scholes and Valencia as opposed to Nani and Busquetts.

Valencia is more direct and works better with Rooney than Nani, that is plain to see when you watch United.

Gotta think Scholes has a little evil streak in him. Comparing Nani to Busquetts is just stupid. Busquetts is the biggest cheat in football. The way people go on about Nani you would swear he is the only player in England that dives and playacts. Watch Gerrard and Suarez next year they will probably open a diving school.

VW 1

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

That's correct in some ways. Valencia, however, is never gonna score from 30 yards out of the blue or do a piece of unreal skill to get past people (like Nani at Arsenal)

They're both class players and both play for us.... i'm happy with that.

Lets hope not :pac:

Pro. F

TheTownie wrote: »

He gets his body back into position but I don't think tries hard enough to actually get the ball back for the team.
...
Well in a 442 or 4411, whatever you want to call our usual formation, you have more responsibility as a winger than you wouldn't have in say a 433.

Anyway regardless of formation, as we strive to be the best team in Europe and the world, its only natural to look at the team that is currently the best, Barca, and try to learn from their success. All of their 10 outfield players do whatever it takes to get the ball back once they lose it so why shouldn't we try and instill the same mentality into our players?

You are just making stuff up to criticise him with. He is not defensively slack. He gets back, he tracks runs and he makes tackles. He is not brilliant at it, but he is definitely good enough. In terms of defending he compares favourably to most other wingers in the league. Valencia and Park are better at it then him, but they are outstanding defensive wingers.

Your comparison to Barca is pointless. They play a completely different style. Their dominant control of possession on their own terms allows them to save the energy to close down so aggressively when they don't have the ball. Go google ''total football'' and you will find a more detailed explanation somewhere.

Since you are going to criticise Nani (unjustly) for not closing down as aggressively as the Barca players then why are you not also criticising Valencia and the rest of the team? None of our players (except for maybe Park) close down the opposition as aggressively as the Barca lads, but it's only Nani you single out for this criticism.

TheTownie wrote: »

Its a fine line but he does, on occasions, over complicate the move. The timing of a cross is as important as the quality of it. If you have three players rushing into the box, you want them to meet the ball on the run as they will have more momentum than the defender thus having a better chance of beating him to the ball and also the defender wouldn't be exactly sure of the position of the attacker in the box.

...
So Nani, (I must stress again) on occasions, has delayed so much that the players rushing into the box are now just standing there waiting for something to happen but now have no momentum and the defence has organised itself and knows exactly where everyone is.

Valencia is just as guilty for delaying on the ball and missing opportunities to cross. Just think of all the times he stops and stands square to his man and then eventually has to pass the ball backwards. Nani consistently gets in more quality and well timed crosses and shots than any of our wingers.

TheTownie wrote: »

Nani aspires to be the best player in the world thus his barometer is not what Valencia is achieving but the likes of Messi and Ronaldo.

What does it matter what Nani aspires to be? So you are going to be a harsher critic of Nani than Valencia because you think Nani wants to be better? That's crazy. I would expect that every United first teamer aspire to be the best in the world in their position.

yabadabado

Does anyone think Valencia's place will be under threat if we sign Young?Nani RW and Young LW.

gracehopper

Nuts102 wrote: »

Gotta think Scholes has a little evil streak in him. Comparing Nani to Busquetts is just stupid. Busquetts is the biggest cheat in football. The way people go on about Nani you would swear he is the only player in England that dives and playacts. Watch Gerrard and Suarez next year they will probably open a diving school.

I'm not directly comparing them, I think you missed my point. I'm saying we tend to like honest players whereas in Europe they dont mind the petulence too much. I like Nani, i think he is fantastic but he is petulant and a bit of a girl compared to Scholes or Valencia.

Pro. F

Nuts102 wrote: »

The way people go on about Nani you would swear he is the only player in England that dives and playacts. Watch Gerrard and Suarez next year they will probably open a diving school.

To be fair I bet you will never see Gerrard, after getting kicked, running over to the referee, falling down in front of him and bursting into tears.

Most players dive which is bad, but some players act like children with their faking of injuries. Nani is one of the worst in the PL for that imo.

VW 1

from twitter

@KaiWayne:

Kai Sports News: Villas-Boas promises to make Torres twice the player he was last year. Can't wait to see his 2 goals next season then

Backstreet Moyes

Pro. F wrote: »

To be fair I bet you will never see Gerrard, after getting kicked, running over to the referee, falling down in front of him and bursting into tears.

Most players dive which is bad, but some players act like children with their faking of injuries. Nani is one of the worst in the PL for that imo.

If Gerrard gets a stud into his shin and blood starts coming out i have a feeling he might burst into tears i would. But yes i agree Nani could cut out his playacting if he did alot of people might look past it and praise him for the quality he brings to the team, its a shame alot of people cant look past it when judging his ability.

TheTownie

Liam O wrote: »

Others have dealt with your other points I'll deal with these. Basically you are saying that Nani, to be good enough for United to give him freedome has to either score or set up 50+ goals in a season. A feat that no player has ever come close to in the PL. He scored and assisted more than Bale, Malouda, Nasri (although he generally plays out of position) and every other winger in the PL. But that's not good enough to trust that he is doing the right thing.

He obviously can improve, so can every player. He has arguably improved more than every player in the league both in his defensive and attacking work so I don't see why that would be something used as a stick to beat him with?

Ronaldo 07/08 - 42 goals/8 assists in 49 apps. Not a bad attempt was it?

Also this season just to show it;
Ronaldo 10/11 - 53 goals/16 assists in 53 apps. Obviously La Liga, hes more suited to that league etc, etc. Lets just say the two feats are on a par with one another.

When a player produces those kind of stats I wouldn't criticise him at all, just hope he keeps doing what he is doing.

Nani is good enough for Utd but he is not so good that he is above criticism. His predecessors have set very high standards and I'm not going to settle for anything less than that level when judging a player and giving a critic on him.

On the defensive side, we will just have to agree to disagree.

VW 1 wrote: »

I dont think you will get anyone disagreeing with you on this, obviously it is the ease on the ball coupled with the pass and move which they are taught at La Masia and the superb technical ability. If you can figure out how to replicate this, a football club will pay you millions per year to impart your knowledge to the players! I also hope we sign a ball playing creative combatitive CM lol If only we could attain one.

Well hopefully the change in the rules will make a big difference. An extra 8,000 hours contact time is a major move forward. Of course it will take years before we see the the benefits of this rule change.

Jax Teller

Competition on the wings can only be a good thing imo .

Sgt Pepper 64

VW 1 wrote: »

from twitter

Yep, Man U 0 -Chelsea 2 (Torres, 25 and 65)

Pro. F

Nuts102 wrote: »

If Gerrard gets a stud into his shin and blood starts coming out i have a feeling he might burst into tears i would.

No I very strongly doubt he would. I think it's hilarious the way so many United fans on here all of a sudden think it's perfectly normal for a footballer to ball his eyes out on the pitch when he gets a cut on his leg the way Nani did after that incident.

Nuts102 wrote: »

But yes i agree Nani could cut out his playacting if he did alot of people might look past it and praise him for the quality he brings to the team, its a shame alot of people cant look past it when judging his ability.

I have a slight suspicion that Fergie has lost his patience with it and that's why he's looking at Young. It's only speculation on my part though.