Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip Rumours Thread 2011/2012

amiable

Its Friday People:)
Move on

gracehopper

Jesus, this has just decended into a horrible mess, I'm off, I'll see you when the season starts.

keane2097

MagicMarker wrote: »

Where did I say otherwise?

Your last couple of posts have been terrible and now you're trying the pedantic old chestnut of "show me exactly where I said xyz" when all anyone is trying to do is tell you your posts have been terrible.

Avoid getting into a pitched battle early friday morning because you sleepily posted some foolish nonsense.

Hope this helps.

keane2097

Also, since Fernando Torres is worth 50M, Andy Carroll is worth 35M and Jordan Henderson is worth 20M, Sanchez is easily worth 44M.

MagicMarker

keane2097 wrote: »

Your last couple of posts have been terrible and now you're trying the pedantic old chestnut of "show me exactly where I said xyz" when all anyone is trying to do is tell you your posts have been terrible.

Avoid getting into a pitched battle early friday morning because you sleepily posted some foolish nonsense.

Hope this helps.

Bollox.

All I said was Udinese were having a laugh by over evaluating their player. Nothing more, nothing less. A pretty fair and simple comment until people started throwing their toys out of their pram.

Your Airbag

My take on the CLF

It was a disaster both in terms of team selection and the performance of some of those selected. It was a repeat of the 2009 Final. Except we managed a goal completely against the run of play and were lucky not to concede more than three goals.

Fergie is not completely to blame for this but is I'll say 60% at fault. I say this because I don't believe he was not able to pick the team he would have wanted. Fletcher if fit was a no brainer. He would have started and would have been a critical presence in that midfield, clipping at heels, getting in people faces, you name it he would have done it. He always puts in a good shift and his passing game is pretty good too.

Instead we used Giggs and Carrick in the center in a 4-5-1 4-3-3 call it what you will . They were good against Chelsea but Barca are a different beast. They were also good against Schalke but Schalke played so bad and stood off so much its almost hard to give to much credit. In the Final they were not good at all. In fact they were Lazy. Now I love Giggs, he's a legend but he let us down that night.

Carrick got nowhere near Iniesta. I was screaming at the TV whenever he had the ball because Carrick was nowhere to be seen. Himself and Giggs looked like they were having a Sunday walk in the middle of the Park. They did not break up much play or get tight on Barca and stayed very close to each other. So close at times they should have been holding hands. This may have been Fergies wish, not to stray to far from each other or the back four or the two boys just didn't turn up either way the end result was Barca, the first 10 minutes aside, had lots of time on the ball in midfield. This was footballing suicide.

Barca rarely pass the ball further than 10-15 yards within the midfield, which means when they loose it they dont have far to run to get it back. They have great technical players to do this. Messi drops in to help, the full backs push up and now they have the option to play the ball out wide or for long balls. Xavi and Iniesta can put the ball on a postage stamp from anywhere on the pitch and if your not busting a nut to cover these guys your in trouble.

During the first 10 minutes Park was Immense. Both Park and Valencia worked there socks of all night, some people say Valencia was lucky to be on the pitch. This was a due to him picking up the slack left by Giggs, Carrick and Rooney. AV was picked for his defensive qualities as much as his attacking play but he could'nt cope. At times Park was trying to take care of Messi and Alves. He was over run too. I don't blame them for anything that night, it was central midfeild where the problem started.

Rooney only got close to Busquets when he felt like it. After his goal this got worse. You could see Fergie telling him straight after the goal, we are getting outplayed, we need more in midfield, get tighter or something along those lines

Chico was isolated, when we did get the ball Barca were on top of us and we gave it away numerous times. Carrick was exposed more than anyone on the night. We were sending long balls up to Chico at times, it was never going to work.

I would have gone strictly 4-5-1. With Rooney instructed to stay in midfeild breaking up play when Barca had possesion and not just drop deep. Fletcher and Ando (if fully fit which I'm not sure he was) in the center working there socks off given what I saw from Giggs and Carrick that night and either Chico or Berba up top. I'm in the minority here but I would have started with Berba (but I am his biggest fan) and his ability to hold up the ball and allow support to follow would have been interesting. Him not even being on the bench was shocking imo.

But Fergie couldn't pick Fletcher from the off as he was not in great physical shape, possibly Ando too. His selection was hampered somewhat. The central MF's he did pick didn't try hard enough. The formation wasn't right. We underestimated Barca again. We will never know what Fergie would have done with a fully fit squad.

Let the backlash commence.

keane2097

MagicMarker wrote: »

Bollox.

All I said was Udinese were having a laugh by over evaluating their player. Nothing more, nothing less.

And Des explained to you cogently and concisely why their valuation was sensible and proper.

MagicMarker wrote: »

A pretty fair and simple comment until people started throwing their toys out of their pram.

MagicMarker

keane2097 wrote: »

And Des explained to you cogently and concisely why their valuation was sensible and proper.

WTF? All he said is he signed a contract and they have a right to demand what they want. Something which I don't disagree with and something which I never questioned in the first place.

MagicMarker

Anyway, enough of all the BS.

Here's a decent article from the Guardian...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2011/jun/23/ashley-young-manchester-united

Gary Neville tells a story about the time Manchester United signed Jesper Blomqvist in 1998 and the senior players saw it as an opportunity to wind up Ryan Giggs, telling him the writing was on the wall and that, if the club wanted another left-winger, it was only logic they must want rid of him. Giggs took it in good humour, hid any insecurity he might have secretly allowed to infest his mind and, at the end of it all, he looked Neville in the eye and said matter-of-factly: "He'd better be good."

Fast-forward to the current day and it is reasonable to imagine Nani is thinking something similar about Ashley Young. Nani won United's player of the year award last season, scoring nine league goals and setting up another 18. Nobody else in the entire league contributed to so many goals. The last thing he might have anticipated was that Sir Alex Ferguson would rush out in the summer to buy someone else to fill the same position.

Young scored seven goals last season, together with 11 assists, which is still a decent haul, though it was Aston Villa's other winger, Stewart Downing, who won a clean sweep of the club's player of the year awards.

Young, nonetheless, has many of the attributes that Ferguson likes in a wide player: he is quick, elusive, can run with the ball, he likes to take on his opponent and, when it comes to picking out a cross with either foot, he has benefited from his one-to-one tuition with John Robertson, Martin O'Neill's assistant during his time at Aston Villa. Robertson was the key player of the Nottingham Forest team Brian Clough took to two European Cups, a side that instinctively looked left ("just give it to Robbo").

The question is whether Young has been bought as a squad-rotation player, as back-up to Nani, or whether Ferguson genuinely believes the England international can improve the team and is signing him on a five-year contract with the intention of integrating him as a fundamental part of his strongest XI.

Many United supporters are sceptical, appreciating Young's talent but not wholly convinced this is a footballer with the genuine ability to stamp his mark on this team. Yet it is also clear that Ferguson has reservations about Nani, not selecting him for the Champions League final as well as other key games during the final exchanges of last season.

Even so, the good outweighs the bad with Nani these days. He is no longer the playground show-off of old and instead has developed into a player with authentic substance and end-product, even if he can still be unorthodox to the point of maddening.

The player has told Ferguson he prefers to operate on the right and it was no coincidence his form deteriorated after Antonio Valencia came back into the side in March after six months out with a broken leg, meaning he was shifted back to the left. Ferguson, however, has taken the view that Valencia – ignoring, for one moment, a dishevelled display in the Champions League final – offers the greater contribution.

All of this is to assume two things: firstly, that Young will be assigned to the left-sided attacking role in which we saw him at Villa last season and, secondly, that Nani will still be around when the new campaign starts with the Community Shield against Manchester City on 7 August.

Young can, after all, be deployed as a secondary striker, a difficult and elusive opponent, finding space, accomplished in front of goal. As for Nani, he has said he is happy in Manchester and not even vaguely interested in the possibility of a move. In Portugal, however, there are people associated with him who maintain a very different story, namely that he is tempted by the idea of a transfer and stung by the sense that he is not an automatic first-team pick. A move to Spain, or preferably Italy, appeals.

Whatever happens, Ferguson will not be short of wide players going into the season that sees him bring up a quarter of a century at the club. Giggs, at 37, tends to play a more central position these days, but can still excel on those days when he is directed towards the touchline. Park Ji-sung was in the team ahead of Nani at the end of last season, bringing a level of hard running and lung-splitting effort that makes up for his occasional deficiencies on the ball.

Park is chosen so often for the big matches it tends to be overlooked he did not even make the bench for the 2008 Champions League final against Chelsea. He, too, could be forgiven for wondering about the implications for him.

Going back to Blomqvist, we know what happened next. The Swede lasted a couple of years, flitted around the edges before being politely shown towards the door, quickly to be lost in the club's history. Giggs, 13 years on, with the first flecks of grey in his hair, is still there, with a record number of trophies and appearances, and until recently, when his life turned into an episode of the Jeremy Kyle Show, was considered by some to be a candidate for the club's fourth knighthood.

For Young, it will be his job to show he can outdo Nani, Giggs and Park and that, if he is moved into a more central position, he can step up to the level that is required from a club with United's ambitions. Old Trafford represents a brave new world for a player who will be expected to dominate rather than merely decorate matches. He had better be good.

What are the chances of Nani leaving? With the overhaul that appears to be taking place I wouldn't be surprised.

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

i would like to think the vast majority of united fans would agree with this re the cl final -

well beaten, no complaints re the result.
performance was poor and we could have played alot better.
tactics and selection could have been better.
we were badly exposed in midfield, 2 V 3 wouldnt work most days, let alone v one of the best midfields of all time.
changes needed to be made at half time and were not
several players could have been taken off and were left on for 90 mins.

i think fergie will admit, like he did in 2009, that mistakes were made on that night, any fool could see that. hopefully he knows them this time and it wont happen a 3rd time.

I never want see that match again but I fully agree with all you say.

People seem to forget we were unbeaten up to the final in both 09 and this year and also 08 which we won. I dont think there is any shame in getting beat by maybe the best side ever.

jambofc

MagicMarker wrote: »

What are the chances of Nani leaving? With the overhaul that appears to be taking place I wouldn't be surprised.

none imo i hope and pray anyway,why get rid of one of our best players,he's younger than young and with a bit of maturity and better decision making(comes with maturity) will be brilliant.

edit:imo he's a better player than young.

Quandary

You have to feel for Nani in fairness to him. I hope he starts the season all guns blazing and shows us all the form we saw in the first half of last season.

Young has his work cut out for him.

If Fergie can keep all our wingers happy throughout the season then the man will be even more of a genius.

Insect Overlord

Move Valencia to right back and play Nani on the wing? :pac:

Quandary

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Move Valencia to right back and play Nani on the wing? :pac:

That's a great option to have if you're looking to nick an important goal late on

Quandary

I've a feeling i could get ripped apart for this but here goes....

If the rest of the transfer window passes by without us getting in a decent cm, would Wilson Palacios be worth a punt? He's not a creative midfielder by any means, in fact he's a destroyer more than anything but imo he would strengthen what we already have. Palacios played directly in front of the back 4, Carrick bang smack in the middle and Anderson pushing the attack?

Palacios has a decent engine, he's aggressive and athletic and he would give Carrick that extra bit of space he loves to pick out sweeter passes.

Ok - lets have it then, any thoughts :pac:

keane2097

He's not a bad player, but it's not exactly the sort of signing that's going to leave Barcelona quaking in their boots either.

Vic Vinegar

keane2097 wrote: »

He's not a bad player, but it's not exactly the sort of signing that's going to leave Barcelona quaking in their boots either.

I don't think any one signing is really!

MagicMarker

SSN

Speculation:
According to reports in the Express & Star, Wolves manager Mick McCarthy is ready to turn to Manchester United's Jonny Evans in his bid to sign a new defender. McCarthy has already been thwarted in two bids for Reading's Matt Mills and has also been unable to agree a deal for Birmingham centre-half Roger Johnson.

It would be a shame to see Evans go, he has been absolutely immense for us in the past and he could be again, but with Jones signing he must think he's down in the pecking order.

TheTownie

Quandary wrote: »

I've a feeling i could get ripped apart for this but here goes....

If the rest of the transfer window passes by without us getting in a decent cm, would Wilson Palacios be worth a punt? He's not a creative midfielder by any means, in fact he's a destroyer more than anything but imo he would strengthen what we already have. Palacios played directly in front of the back 4, Carrick bang smack in the middle and Anderson pushing the attack?

Palacios has a decent engine, he's aggressive and athletic and he would give Carrick that extra bit of space he loves to pick out sweeter passes.

Ok - lets have it then, any thoughts :pac:

PSG linked this morning with making a move for him as the Napoli move has stalled.

Pro. F

Quandary wrote: »

I've a feeling i could get ripped apart for this but here goes....

If the rest of the transfer window passes by without us getting in a decent cm, would Wilson Palacios be worth a punt? He's not a creative midfielder by any means, in fact he's a destroyer more than anything but imo he would strengthen what we already have. Palacios played directly in front of the back 4, Carrick bang smack in the middle and Anderson pushing the attack?

Palacios has a decent engine, he's aggressive and athletic and he would give Carrick that extra bit of space he loves to pick out sweeter passes.

Ok - lets have it then, any thoughts :pac:

I used to rate him. He was never any sort of attacking threat, but he was comfortable on the ball and good at getting it forward to the more attacking players. And of course he could win the ball and put the boot in reliably. But then, tragically, his brother was murdered. He hasn't been the same player since.

Also, imo Carrick would add nothing to the formation you have there. And Anderson would be a waste that far forward since he doesn't score a lot. And Hernandez would have to be dropped.

Quandary

keane2097 wrote: »

He's not a bad player, but it's not exactly the sort of signing that's going to leave Barcelona quaking in their boots either.

Yes, i agree completely BUT...

Utd play Barca once, maybe twice or maybe not at all during the year.

I know he has slipped down the pecking order at Spurs a bit but Spurs do have great talent in mf and competition is very high.

Palacios would be a very useful player to have imo. A great squad player who would be available at a very reasonable price too i would imagine.

amiable

In fairness Palacios cant get a game for Spurs so i hardly expect him to get in the United team

Fenix

Palacios has the inability to pass the ball as well as a potential hothead. Shame, as some parts of his game are excellent. Latest twitter BS had him on PSG's radar.

amiable

PSG are going to be linked to everyone with their new found wealth

Quandary

Pro. F wrote: »

I used to rate him. He was never any sort of attacking threat, but he was comfortable on the ball and good at getting it forward to the more attacking players. And of course he could win the ball and put the boot in reliably. But then, tragically, his brother was murdered. He hasn't been the same player since.

Also, imo Carrick would add nothing to the formation you have there. And Anderson would be a waste that far forward since he doesn't score a lot. And Hernandez would have to be dropped.

I hear ya.

I just remember him playing a few games for Spurs and thinking to myself, that guy is a warrior!

I read about his brother, terribly sad, but a move could be the fresh start he needs.

iirc, spurs paid over 10m for him too? He was obviously very well regarded and maybe he can find his game again.

keane2097

Quandary wrote: »

Yes, i agree completely BUT...

Utd play Barca once, maybe twice or maybe not at all during the year.

I know he has slipped down the pecking order at Spurs a bit but Spurs do have great talent in mf and competition is very high.

Palacios would be a very useful player to have imo. A great squad player who would be available at a very reasonable price too i would imagine.

Well I mean unless overtaking Barcelona is your ambition we don't really need to sign anyone...

Nalz

gracehopper wrote: »

Jesus, this has just decended into a horrible mess, I'm off, I'll see you when the season starts.

Like those few gobshytes propping up the bar having one of those airhead cringy footy arguments. Complete mess....

Paul Tergat

I never did find those cufflinks

flahavaj

I hear a lot of talk of overtaking Barcelona since the Cl Final. I think people need to realise afew things. No amount of money spent in teh transfer window would catch us up with Barca. You could actuall assemble a world 11 with everyone but Barca players and I'd still back Barca to beat them. If the club truly wants to get on a par with them then it will require fiundamental reform of the entire club from the bottom up, going alll the way donw to the way the under 16's are coached. The set up Barca have is phenonemal, the way they train kids from day one to play and fit into a particular style is the real secret to their success. The fact that they can supplement their unbleieveable youth set up with signing the best in the world like Villa, Sanchez etc just makes the trask doubly harder.

Nothing we do realistically in this transfer window will make a dent in the gap between us and them. Madrid have blown hundreds of millions and still are very much second best. In the short term we need to look after the squad and keep it challenging consistently at the top level. The age and type of player Fergie is currently investing in suggests he is planning to keep the squad strong (the bedrock of recent success) while planning for the future too. The PL will always be an continues to be aour bread and butter and we face some strong chellenge in the coming years from Chelsea, City and Liverpool. At the moment I'm more worried about straying ahead of them than catching Barca tbh. The job of catching Barca is a more long term aim that requires more fundamental reform than simply investing heavily in the transfer market. It is an unbelieveably difficult and compex task.

keane2097

We can definitely make some midfield signings that would make us more competitive with them.

We're second to them in Europe now, if our intention isn't trying to compete with them we don't need to sign anyone.

PHB

keane2097 wrote: »

Well I mean unless overtaking Barcelona is your ambition we don't really need to sign anyone...

This is easy to think, but I think it's dangerous. The league is going to be even harder next season.

Chelsea have appointed a new up and coming manager. They are going to make big signings this summer. Torres is going to find his form next season, I have no doubt.

Arsenal are always a threat, especially if they keep their players. They are getting older and older every year, and with that experience comes the potential to put it properly together.

City have had another year of gelling, and with CL football, are going to be able to attract players who can help them make the step up.

Last season the league was won at 80 points. Second place was 71. Third was 71. Fourth was 68.

The season before 86 was needed. 85 was 2nd. 75 was 3rd. 70 was 4th.

The season before 90 was needed. 86 was 2nd. 83 was 3rd. 72 was 4th.

Last season was the lowest points total winning the league in quite some time! We need to do better. How many away points were dropped last season? That must be eliminated.

On the European front, Barca are still growing as players. Real Madrid will be better again. Mourinho got them into the habit of winning with the Copa last season, and next season I really expect them to push on and go extremely close if not win La Liga.

We need to push on. We need to develop. We need to get our weak spots fixed. GK is key. It's sorted. Central midfield is key. Left wing would have been nice and it was gotten.

If we don't sign a central midfielder this summer, and Anderson doesn't step up t the level he can next season, I fully expect us to lose the league next season, and not win the CL.

Nalz

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

I don't think any one signing is really!

Love the Sig man

Dont be at yourself

flahavaj wrote: »

I hear a lot of talk of overtaking Barcelona since the Cl Final. I think people need to realise afew things. No amount of money spent in teh transfer window would catch us up with Barca. You could actuall assemble a world 11 with everyone but Barca players and I'd still back Barca to beat them. If the club truly wants to get on a par with them then it will require fiundamental reform of the entire club from the bottom up, going alll the way donw to the way the under 16's are coached. The set up Barca have is phenonemal, the way they train kids from day one to play and fit into a particular style is the real secret to their success. The fact that they can supplement their unbleieveable youth set up with signing the best in the world like Villa, Sanchez etc just makes the trask doubly harder.

Nothing we do realistically in this transfer window will make a dent in the gap between us and them. Madrid have blown hundreds of millions and still are very much second best. In the short term we need to look after the squad and keep it challenging consistently at the top level. The age and type of player Fergie is currently investing in suggests he is planning to keep the squad strong (the bedrock of recent success) while planning for the future too. The PL will always be an continues to be aour bread and butter and we face some strong chellenge in the coming years from Chelsea, City and Liverpool. At the moment I'm more worried about straying ahead of them than catching Barca tbh. The job of catching Barca is a more long term aim that requires more fundamental reform than simply investing heavily in the transfer market. It is an unbelieveably difficult and compex task.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Barcelona may be the greatest team of my generation, but they can be beaten. Real Madrid showed that in the copa, and weren't far off in the CL either. You don't need to emulate them to beat them.

It may be impossible to play the same kind of football to the same standard as Barca, or to perform week-in, week-out with the same consistency, but it is emminently possible to transform the current United team into one with a good chance of beating them in a one-off game, a la the CL final.

But they're not going to do it with Giggs and Carrick in the middle of the pitch. Most of all, they need energy in there, but they also need to improve on their use of the ball when they do have it.
Mourinho put Pepe in the middle, and he was immense for Madrid, and crucial in stopping Barca taking hold of the game. I can't see any United player capable of doing the same - though perhaps Anderson could develop into that player. Lassana Diarra, supposedly on his way out, also did well against Barca in a similar role.

Madrid also had Alonso and Khedira in the middle, who both worked hard without the ball, and also used it with efficiency when they did have it.

You may dispair and say United will never beat Barca, but it's a ridiculously defeatist attitude. I can guarantee that a midfield of, say, M'Vila, Modric, Giggs would have a better crack at the whip than your last two attempts.

PHB

flahavaj wrote: »

I hear a lot of talk of overtaking Barcelona since the Cl Final. I think people need to realise afew things. No amount of money spent in teh transfer window would catch us up with Barca. You could actuall assemble a world 11 with everyone but Barca players and I'd still back Barca to beat them.

IMO that's bull. No team is unbeatable, none. Inter did them the season before. Madrid did them last season. They were beatable, but we didn't beat them.

keane2097

Consider it a short-handed way of saying any signings we make should be looking above us and not below us.

Obv we may need to strengthen to stay ahead of the teams behind us, but that's a small club mentality.

Christ almighty though, you really do have to hold peoples' hands pretty much all the way through things here don't you.

u140acro3xs7dm

keane2097 wrote: »

We can definitely make some midfield signings that would make us more competitive with them.

We're second to them in Europe now, if our intention isn't trying to compete with them we don't need to sign anyone.

Just because we got to the Champions League final it doesnt mean we are the 2nd best team in europe. To beat Barca you need to be either lucky or have the right type of players. When Inter knocked them out 2 seasons ago they had the right players. They put on a defensive master-class that night. They smothered Barca, We dont have them players and it wouldnt really be worth our while buying them type of players just in case we face Barca. I feel if we are to win the Champions League next season we will need someone else to knock Barca out.

Mr Alan

Lads, I don't think Flah is saying no team can beat Barca, just that no club can overtake them as team by making a couple of signings. They're entirely different things.

keane2097

Mr Alan wrote: »

Lads, I don't think Flah is saying no team can beat Barca, just that no club can overtake them as team by making a couple of signings. They're entirely different things.

I think that's very obviously what he's saying and he's entirely correct.

Sgt Pepper 64

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

That's absolutely ridiculous. Barcelona may be the greatest team of my generation, but they can be beaten. Real Madrid showed that in the copa, and weren't far off in the CL either. You don't need to emulate them to beat them.

It may be impossible to play the same kind of football to the same standard as Barca, or to perform week-in, week-out with the same consistency, but it is emminently possible to transform the current United team into one with a good chance of beating them in a one-off game, a la the CL final.

But they're not going to do it with Giggs and Carrick in the middle of the pitch. Most of all, they need energy in there, but they also need to improve on their use of the ball when they do have it.
Mourinho put Pepe in the middle, and he was immense for Madrid, and crucial in stopping Barca taking hold of the game. I can't see any United player capable of doing the same - though perhaps Anderson could develop into that player. Lassana Diarra, supposedly on his way out, also did well against Barca in a similar role.

Madrid also had Alonso and Khedira in the middle, who both worked hard without the ball, and also used it with efficiency when they did have it.

You may dispair and say United will never beat Barca, but it's a ridiculously defeatist attitude. I can guarantee that a midfield of, say, M'Vila, Modric, Giggs would have a better crack at the whip than your last two attempts.

Who's to say that you actually need to beat Barca, anytime soon?
No team has successfully defended the trophy.
Inter has beaten them before, arsenal beat them at home, chelsea nearly knocked them out. Its a cup competition and anything could happen, so you could find yourselves reaching the final and playing someone else, Man City for example :eek:

Just be grateful that you have a manager who has recognised the team needs refreshing and has taken swift action, and probably hasnt finished yet

flahavaj

Mr Alan wrote: »

Lads, I don't think Flah is saying no team can beat Barca, just that no club can overtake them as team by making a couple of signings. They're entirely different things.

THANK YOU.

Honestly, the level of analysis on here sometimes makes Jamie Redknapp look like Jose f*cking Mourinho.

Vic Vinegar

Trilla wrote: »

Love the Sig man

Cheers, i didn't make it though, i borrowed it from the interwebs :eek:

SK1979

In relation to the point that Flah has raised, at least the recently announced changes to the amount of coaching that can be given to the kids is a step in the right direction. Barcelona have their kids in their La Masia complex full time and they train an awful lot more than English kids do.

Another interesting point thats been made is the sort of training that is given. I'd love to read a really detailed description of the exact training that is being given by the various coach's at United. Its clear that English clubs in general aren't teaching the technical skills that Spanish youngsters have.

u140acro3xs7dm

SK1979 wrote: »

In relation to the point that Flah has raised, at least the recently announced changes to the amount of coaching that can be given to the kids is a step in the right direction. Barcelona have their kids in their La Masia complex full time and they train an awful lot more than English kids do.

Another interesting point thats been made is the sort of training that is given. I'd love to read a really detailed description of the exact training that is being given by the various coach's at United. Its clear that English clubs in general aren't teaching the technical skills that Spanish youngsters have.

I remember fergie saying a year or two ago that English clubs concentrate far too much on the physical aspect with their young players. I think he said that Utds younger teams generally struggled as the other teams where a lot bigger and stronger than them. I suppose its hard if Utd are training the youngsters to play proper football but when they go out on the pitch they just get kicked to bits.

PHB

flahavaj wrote: »

THANK YOU.

Honestly, the level of analysis on here sometimes makes Jamie Redknapp look like Jose f*cking Mourinho.

The point is that Barca can't be caught in this window. Frankly, that's ludicrous to me!

Madrid and United could both make the right signings and be able to compete if not beat them. United with Modric and M'Vila in midfield, with Young on the left, Nani on the right, Rooney and Chicho up front, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and Rafael at the back. I think we'd take them.

Madrid with a little more shape on their team can take them too, and indeed have. They only beat Barca by 4 points in the league for crying out loud.

They aren't the Milan of the 90s, not yet. They are still catchable and beatable this transfer window. We'll never actually face them in the league, so the only thing that matters if if we can beat them in a one off tie or two legged tie in the CL. The right signings will allow us to do this.

It's nice to think that this isn't possible, it's not to think that it;s out of our hands or that we need to fundamentally copy their youth system or something. Frankly I this is just a nice way out. We can catch them this summer, we just need to bloody well do it.

u140acro3xs7dm

PHB wrote: »

The point is that Barca can't be caught in this window. Frankly, that's ludicrous to me!

Madrid and United could both make the right signings and be able to compete if not beat them. United with Modric and M'Vila in midfield, with Young on the left, Nani on the right, Rooney and Chicho up front, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and Rafael at the back. I think we'd take them.

I honestly dont think that team would beat Barca. You still have 2 against 3 in midfield and 2 attacking players in Nani and Young that would have to do a lot of defending.

PHB

Kenley Clever Board wrote: »

I honestly dont think that team would beat Barca. You still have 2 against 3 in midfield and 2 attacking players in Nani and Young that would have to do a lot of defending.

4-3-3 does not automatically beat 4-4-2. A central 2 that can get the ball and effectively shift it to the front four quickly can overwhelm a 4-3-3. The central 2 need to be very good on the ball, with an ability to work well under pressure. Carrick/Giggs do not do this. Players like Modric can.

smokedeels

Catch Barca how?

SAF would never try to play football against them... Madrid didn't even try that.

Good defence, fast wingers, a poacher like Hernandez and - the missing element - a midfielder of Diarra's ilk could beat them on a good and/or lucky day.

Look at our summer activites, Young signed, new contract for Owen and our best "technical" player likely to be sold... we're not building a side to catch them... just beat them on a single occasion.

flahavaj

PHB wrote: »

The point is that Barca can't be caught in this window. Frankly, that's ludicrous to me!

Madrid and United could both make the right signings and be able to compete if not beat them. United with Modric and M'Vila in midfield, with Young on the left, Nani on the right, Rooney and Chicho up front, Ferdinand, Vidic, Evra and Rafael at the back. I think we'd take them.

Madrid with a little more shape on their team can take them too, and indeed have. They only beat Barca by 4 points in the league for crying out loud.

They aren't the Milan of the 90s, not yet. They are still catchable and beatable this transfer window. We'll never actually face them in the league, so the only thing that matters if if we can beat them in a one off tie or two legged tie in the CL. The right signings will allow us to do this.

It's nice to think that this isn't possible, it's not to think that it;s out of our hands or that we need to fundamentally copy their youth system or something. Frankly I this is just a nice way out. We can catch them this summer, we just need to bloody well do it.

I'm talking about becoming the top club in Europe not beating them in a one off game. They are universally regarded as the top club team on the continent. We wouldn't take that claim from them if we managed to snatch a win over two legs against them next year. They are regarded as such because they've won the CL twice in three years, because they have comprehensively dominated their domestic league for the last three seasons and because they routinely play teams off the pitch (us included on the last two times we've played - embarrassingly so). They are far and away the best team around. They may not be 1990's Milam yet but that only because they're in the middle of their run, not at the end. I'd be pretty confident they'll eclipse them in terms of success by the time their cycle of success ends.

I also think you're ludicrously deluded if you think with confidence the addition of Modric/M'Villa alone would be enough to beat them btw, but that wasn't really my point in the first place. See the bigger picture for Christ's sake man.

I see now that the thread will descend into a retarded four page debate on whether United could beat Barca in a one off game with Modric in the team. Way to spectacularly miss the point folks. Morons.

PHB

smokedeels wrote: »

Catch Barca how?
SAF would never try to play football against them... Madrid didn't even try that.

In this final this year he did. He just put out players who weren't able to. We started with two strikers on the pitch, probably the first team to do it against Barca all season. Fergie wanted to attack, but our midfield couldn't link up the back 4 with the front 4. Our midfield failed us, it's why we lost. [Not to include Evra's ****ing woeful defending and VDS's messed up saves.]

u140acro3xs7dm

PHB wrote: »

4-3-3 does not automatically beat 4-4-2. A central 2 that can get the ball and effectively shift it to the front four quickly can overwhelm a 4-3-3. The central 2 need to be very good on the ball, with an ability to work well under pressure. Carrick/Giggs do not do this. Players like Modric can.

I know 433 does not automatically beat 442. When you are playing Barcelona it would be very hard to beat them with any 2 man midfield. Xavi and Iniesta are probably the best 2 mids in the world at hanging on to the ball and Busquets is not too shabby either, add to that they work extremely hard. I think to beat Barca you need a solid midfield that closes down and contains well and then try hit them on the counter attack and pretty much hope for the best.