Chelsea Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2011/2012

Sgt Pepper 64

cson wrote: »

I don't think you need that much surgery. Certainly the remnants of Mourinho's era have aged and probably need to move on but its moreso the philosophy of AVB that's resulting in you leaking goals. A back 5 of Cech [even though he was poor by his standards today], Bosingwa - Terry - Ivanovic - Cole, is probably almost as good as any in the league with Bosingwa probably the maybe in there. What let you down today imo is that you don't have a disruptive defensively minded midfield player, Ramires is sort of a halfway man in that regard - if you look at us Alex Song constantly disrupted you and niggled at attacks all day long - its no coincidence he was the player that was about a second late on getting the block in on Mata for his goal. Mikel could be that player but he's very immature any time I've seen him play.

We do have that player and he was on the bench - Romeu.
Mikel is never going to be that player. He's had a good chance over the years - average to good.
We have no one good enough to give Bose or Cole competition. AVB tried to fix that, but we couldnt agree the fees. Ramires is no Essien.
Basically, apart from Mata, we have replaced Mourinho's untouchables with good players rather than outstanding ones. Ramires is a case in point. He wasnt the player Carlos wanted and is too inconsistant.
We have no one of Van Persies quality and commitment.
Torres is ok on his day, Danny is still a work in progress and I suspect not going to good enough for us. Drogba and Anelka have had their day and Luka is still adjusting.
The only way to fix it is to get seriously lucky finding youth or by spending the cash like Man City. The problem with Man Citys solution is that its not sustainable with the new rules.
The problem with us is that we have a cash rich owner who is also too emotionally involved to the point of interfering.
Man city are stronger because they just stump up the cash and dont try to tell the manager how to play or who to buy

Man city will win the league this year and Utd will be runners up end of.

michael999999

the_monkey wrote: »

I think that one is a definite !!

Nothing this season, not even top 4 .

CL - usual ****, but probably earlier this year.

10 years time CFC won't exist as a football club, which will be great
cos I can support City then...

Overreaction much!:rolleyes:

Sanity_Saviour

the_monkey wrote: »

I think that one is a definite !!

Nothing this season, not even top 4 .

CL - usual ****, but probably earlier this year.

10 years time CFC won't exist as a football club, which will be great
cos I can support City then...

Actually yeah you're dead right Chelsea may cut their losses and just put up the "Closed until further notice" signs I mean we can hardly be a football club if we lose a game. :rolleyes:

But seriously why put Hilario in goal and bring back Makalele for such a big game? Crazy.

Gonzovision

Some amount of crap posted on here. Manager needs time, he needs to bring in some players. Youth needs a chance to develop, heard people giving out about Lukaku ffs, he's a kid. Transition year, no more. Have a fantastic manager and brilliant youth prospects. Negativity is shocking.

Meglamonia

Ye call yourselves Chelsea fans?We lost a freak game to Arsenal to 5-3 and all the **** is coming out.

I'd love to copy all the comments and repost them in a year or two,or a couple of months actually!

Cop the **** on we're only a quarter of the way through the season there's a long race to run yet..

And gonzo is right ye're a bunch of negative *****




Ahh back to the Bulmers

J. Marston

jcf wrote: »

Sad sad day when we get beaten at home by a mid table club
Can you imagine the score when we play City ??!!!
12-0 to city probably
Christ

Lukker- wrote: »

Embarassing to lose to that Arsenal side today.

Cech was terrible today, should have saved at least 3 goals, always beaten on his near post.

Our defense, don't even get me started, I cringe when I think about.

We should have killed the game off in the first half.

the_monkey wrote: »

Jesus christ PP, thats a f*cking positive outlook ....

To be beaten at home by this Arsenal side - so f*cking embarrassing ...

I can't see a future in this club, not with the likes of City and Barça out there.

I'm not an Arsenal fan but they are very arrogant statements. Arsenal have what, 7 or 8 wins in their last 9 games or something like that? Van Persie is ripping up the league. Arsenal are far from some ''embarrassing mid-table'' club.
A draw would have been a decent result for you today considering Arsenal's form, you could have won if those early chances were converted but they weren't and you suffered for it.

There was one thing embarrassing about yesterday though, Chelsea's defence.

DazMarz

Sweet fúcking Jesus... To lose a London Derby in such a fashion is terrible. Usually these things are closely enough contested. Arsenal ripped the script up today and gave a lesson.

This Chelsea side would want to smarten up, and smarten up rapidly. Two defeats in games Chelsea should have (on paper) won. They lost two London Derbies in a row, which is something unacceptable for a team that has set a very high standard for itself.

Also, discipline is sorely lacking. 5 red cards and over 20 yellow cards a mere 2 months into the season? Fúck is going on?!?!?

Sgt Pepper 64

Meglamonia wrote: »

Ye call yourselves Chelsea fans?We lost a freak game to Arsenal to 5-3 and all the **** is coming out.

I'd love to copy all the comments and repost them in a year or two,or a couple of months actually!

Cop the **** on we're only a quarter of the way through the season there's a long race to run yet..

And gonzo is right ye're a bunch of negative *****




Ahh back to the Bulmers

I completely stand by my comments. We have not replaced like for like because we are trying to do it cheaper and we have an emotional owner who gets involved too much. Hence we have ended up with a lop sided squad thats a mix of of aging stars who have only had average players brought in to replace them - Ramires - Essien. We bought Torres instead of Aquero etc etc

Looking through the squad, we have not replaced the following with the same quality that can play right now!

Drogba
Lamps
Cole
Makelele
Carvalho
Ferreira
Robben
Ballack
Duff

The rot started with Sheva but it wasnt for lack of trying SWP etc


You either go out and buy a team quickly like City or you go build long term like Man U with one or 2 quality players a season with a few hopefully from the youth ranks.
Either way, true quality like Mata is the way to go.
Thats all very well if AVB is given time to rebuild properly with Mata type replacements, but history suggests he wont.

G.K.

Bit harsh on Ramires.

Sgt Pepper 64

G.K. wrote: »

Bit harsh on Ramires.

Really? Ramires or a totally fit Essien?

Essien turns up in the big games, Ramires is anon far too often and just runs about a lot and we over paid for him.
Essien would walk into most other teams - not to sure about Ramires

No contest for me and thats why we are where we are.

Essien

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Really? Ramires or a totally fit Essien?

Essien turns up in the big games, Ramires is anon far too often and just runs about a lot and we over paid for him.
Essien would walk into most other teams - not to sure about Ramires

No contest for me and thats why we are where we are.

If Ramires could get to as strong a physical condition as Essien (a big ask I know) I think we would have a very similar player on our hands, technically he's as good if not better and the engine is definitely as good.

And no, we did not overpay for him, he was worth every cent.

Bounty Hunter

the_monkey wrote: »

I think that one is a definite !!

Nothing this season, not even top 4 .

CL - usual ****, but probably earlier this year.

10 years time CFC won't exist as a football club, which will be great
cos I can support City then...

the_monkey wrote: »

Jesus christ PP, thats a f*cking positive outlook ....

To be beaten at home by this Arsenal side - so f*cking embarrassing ...

I can't see a future in this club, not with the likes of City and Barça out there.

So no club has a future then when you compare them to the richest and best teams in the world. It seems like a serious overeaction that Chelsea wont make the CLs spots, I've seen nobody else suggest as much. I also must question why you support Chelsea considering when you again reference City saying itd be great if CFC didnt exist so you can follow City. Apart from comic value what do these posts add really, do you want people to think that you are, to use a common term, a gloryhunter Cos if so youve done it here.

If I was a Chelsea fan id follow the mind frame that this is a transitional year for Chelsea, personal, philosophies all changing, still top quality in the likes of the younger Mata/AVB etc so as to potential give longevity to watever period of potential glory the move towards. However in such a period I wouldnt expect a year of trophies but would hope that once over you would be set to be able to continue competing for both league and euro ambitions despite the quality/money of Man city/Barca etc

J. Marston wrote: »

I'm not an Arsenal fan but they are very arrogant statements. Arsenal have what, 7 or 8 wins in their last 9 games or something like that? Van Persie is ripping up the league. Arsenal are far from some ''embarrassing mid-table'' club...

I couldnt agree more, Yes Arsenal had a shaky start to the season but they have picked up their form and if you defense including Cech are underperforming then players like RVP will punish you, they have that quality.

Essien

Bounty Hunter wrote: »

So no club has a future then when you compare them to the richest and best teams in the world. It seems like a serious overeaction that Chelsea wont make the CLs spots, I've seen nobody else suggest as much. I also must question why you support Chelsea considering when you again reference City saying itd be great if CFC didnt exist so you can follow City. Apart from comic value what do these posts add really, do you want people to think that you are, to use a common term, a gloryhunter Cos if so youve done it here.

If I was a Chelsea fan id follow the mind frame that this is a transitional year for Chelsea, personal, philosophies all changing, still top quality in the likes of the younger Mata/AVB etc so as to potential give longevity to watever period of potential glory the move towards. However in such a period I wouldnt expect a year of trophies but would hope that once over you would be set to be able to continue competing for both league and euro ambitions despite the quality/money of Man city/Barca etc



I couldnt agree more, Yes Arsenal had a shaky start to the season but they have picked up their form and if you defense including Cech are underperforming then players like RVP will punish you, they have that quality.

FWIW, and I'm not sure how many Chelsea fans I speak for but I am embarrassed by a lot of posts in this forum since yesterdays result.

Bounty Hunter

Essien wrote: »

FWIW, and I'm not sure how many Chelsea fans I speak for but I am embarrassed by a lot of posts in this forum since yesterdays result.

yeah I know its only a small percentage of posters and not the main of the support that posts heres opinions. Chelsea & Roman impressed me in the summer with the overhaul they began on the squad spending big on young first team talent. Players like Lukaku, Mata & The Belgians (along with those like Sturridge etc) will imo prove that Chelsea will be a force challenhging for honours in the future. It takes time though and every set of fans will have reactionary support lets just assume that Roman Abramovich wont fall into that group too fast and tbh I dont think he will for some reason.

Crann na Beatha

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Crann na Beatha

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Meglamonia

Can't believe the bashing Ramires is getting in here,he's been our best midfielder all year without a doubt!If you're gonna blame someone you can do it to Malouda because he really is fcuking useless and has done nothing for the club except for the period when Hiddink was in charge,and he wasn't even spectacular then mind you.

1mcampo1

Sgt Pepper 64 wrote: »

Really? Ramires or a totally fit Essien?

Essien turns up in the big games, Ramires is anon far too often and just runs about a lot and we over paid for him.
Essien would walk into most other teams - not to sure about Ramires

No contest for me and thats why we are where we are.

Just cause he doesn't give a killer pass or knock in a few goals doesn't mean he's anonymous. He does all the work that allows the like of Lampard, Meireles, Mata, etc to do what they do on a regular basis. The kinda of work that doesn't get as much attention that it deserves imo...

thebison

The overreaction is baffling. Chelsea are in a transition period. Yesterday we played a positive attacking game.

Yes our defense was very poor but I'm sure we can tighten up back once we get used to playing AVB's way. Only for a sloppy pass from Malouda which hung JT, I believe we would have went on to win the game or at least settle for the draw.

Thought Lampard, Mata & Terry were very good yday. Terry just got unlucky with the slip. Look at the ball he played to mata for our first goal..unreal!

As for Lampard, I can see him hitting 20 goals this season...still a class act!

This won't be popular but I don't think Sturridge is good enough. He's a great goalscorer but his all-round game needs big improvement. Can't help but feel that he has being found out against the bigger teams.

Looking forward to Liverpool in a few weeks time which is our next big test.

I had to laugh at the slating of Luiz from pundits and football fans over the past few weeks. He was hailed was a world class defender and people claiming he can't defend.
How many Man of the Match performances did he give last season for his defensive & attacking displays?

I'm confident Luiz will learn from his mistakes and become a regular in our back 4.

smuckers

Jesus christ Ramieres is still not 100% fit.

Malouda really is a waste of space and capt JT is definitely not the same player, now you realise why AVB was looking for a CB in summer.

1mcampo1

Meglamonia wrote: »

Can't believe the bashing Ramires is getting in here,he's been our best midfielder all year without a doubt!If you're gonna blame someone you can do it to Malouda because he really is fcuking useless and has done nothing for the club except for the period when Hiddink was in charge,and he wasn't even spectacular then mind you.

But Malouda isn't even a center mid. He's a winger who plays in a central position. I'm not defending his form or anything, which has been more miss than hit this season, but it's not his natural position to play

killwill

smuckers wrote: »

Jesus christ Ramieres is still not 100% fit.

Malouda really is a waste of space and capt JT is definitely not the same player, now you realise why AVB was looking for a CB in summer.

+1 on this.
I think Ramires is a great player and there are alot more deserving players of criticism at CFC than ramires.
In fact apart from Mata yesterday, everyone was sh1te.

smuckers

John Richardson says we won't make the top 4 AVB is an imposter and will be gone by May, please make this idiot eat his words!:mad:

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

smuckers

He's a journo from the express

abelard

Don't bash ramires, he's been great this year and is only going to get better. Though I do think we can't expect him to be nearly as defensively strong as Essien was, and we may need to look at that.

For what it's worth, I'm still embarrassed by yesterday. Not because we lost to arsenal. In fact, there's a lot for arsenal fans to be embarrassed about from that game too, despite winning. People are saying it was lovely attacking football, but I completely disagree. There was very little expansive flowing attacking football from either side. It was more a case of sloppy attacks breaking down, then the other team countering with an equally sloppy attack. A lot of the short passing and positional play seemed poor. I honestly think the only reason for eight goals was incredibly poor defending from both sides rather than any sort of strong attacking play. I would attribute 6 of the 8 goals to defensive ineptitude. It was embarrassing to watch because Chelsea have become known for ability to close down teams and defend extremely well. Seeing some of the goals we let in yesterday really was embarrassing.

Saying all that though, it was one match. It's not the end of the world.

Sgt Pepper 64

we've lost 2 games already, usually the league winners lose max 4 all season

its right to be concerned, especially losing at home, in a game we led twice.
avb says not to blame the defence, but we have conceded every game except the first

most un mourinho like

its all very well saying give the team/manager time but we don't know the season targets, the league is gone bar a massive meltdown from Manchester, so the targets will be top four finish and reach a final minimum. no body wants yet another knee jerk manager appointment but we have lost 11 points already this season, so the omens aren't good. that's scholari form.
chelsea have to much expectation and recent history of winning for the fans or club to accept this
we need to sort it out at back asap and if we concede at blackburn heaven help us

Johner

We have lost 3 games.

Shocking defending yesterday, will give my thoughts later.

Lukker-

We've lost the foundation that our success has been built on over the last 7 years. We no longer have any organisation at the back to be solid enough. Ivanovic shouldn't be played as a CB, especially in a high line. I can't understand why Alex is being completely frozen out. Cech was dire yesterday, at fault for 2 of the goals at least. You can't get beaten on your near post. AVB is trying to put his system in place, but honestly we don't have the personnel to implement it properly. We need to ship Malouda, Drogba, Kalou and Anelka next season. Our football is hard to watch at times, we always look like we're prone to mistakes.

willmunny1990

You have to start from the defense up, Thats a given. Its not good football or good management to simply forget about the nity gritty of defending, its part of the game and is an art in itself.

AVB may have a philosophy of attacking fluid football but he can take it and
shove it up his arse if hes just going to forget about defending.

As i have said we played suicide football at Old Trafford this season and again at home to Arsenal we were far to open and these aren't the only examples. If we go to City will he play this kind of football? I don't see him changing as he hasn't so far.

I don't think we need a massive overhaul of players but we need to get rid of a few old legs and bad apples.

AVB has to fix his philosophy fast if we are to amount to anything this season, which i doubt we will. If hes given time to buy new players and he decides to care about our defending then i have faith in him but if not he'll just be another Chelsea manager who's failed.

1mcampo1

Lukker- wrote: »

We've lost the foundation that our success has been built on over the last 7 years. We no longer have any organisation at the back to be solid enough. Ivanovic shouldn't be played as a CB, especially in a high line. I can't understand why Alex is being completely frozen out. Cech was dire yesterday, at fault for 2 of the goals at least. You can't get beaten on your near post. AVB is trying to put his system in place, but honestly we don't have the personnel to implement it properly. We need to ship Malouda, Drogba, Kalou and Anelka next season. Our football is hard to watch at times, we always look like we're prone to mistakes.

In fairness, not a keeper in the world would have saved Van Persie's 3rd goal. The amount of power behind it, added with the swerve and momentum...literally unstoppable

amiable

1mcampo1 wrote: »

In fairness, not a keeper in the world would have saved Van Persie's 3rd goal. The amount of power behind it, added with the swerve and momentum...literally unstoppable

I have to disagree. I think it was a poor attempt from Cech.

He's normally very reliable but had a nightmare yesterday.
One poor performance doesn't make him a bad keeper though

1mcampo1

amiable wrote: »

I have to disagree. I think it was a poor attempt from Cech.

He's normally very reliable but had a nightmare yesterday.
One poor performance doesn't make him a bad keeper though

There was nothing he could do for any VP goal actually.
1st, was a tap in from Gervinho's pass
2nd, was a tap in atfer rounding Cech
3rd, was a bullet

He was defiantly at fault for Santos' goal but Sturridge should take his share of the blame too, it was his man who made a 10/15 yard move ahead of him

Didn't do too much wrong for Walcott's either... again hit with soo much pace

amiable

1mcampo1 wrote: »

There was nothing he could do for any VP goal actually.
1st, was a tap in from Gervinho's pass
2nd, was a tap in atfer rounding Cech
3rd, was a bullet

He was defiantly at fault for Santos' goal but Sturridge should take his share of the blame too, it was his man who made a 10/15 yard move ahead of him

Didn't do too much wrong for Walcott's either... again hit with soo much pace

IMO Cech was at fault for 3 goals yesterday.
Don't mind this talk of a bullet or power.

The Walcott goal he was beaten on his near post. Big no no for a top keeper.

Santos goal the ball went under the keeper another big no no.

The 3rd RVP goal also beat him at his near post.

I'm not talking about Sturridge. That's another issue.

Cech's high standards slipped yesterday.

1mcampo1

amiable wrote: »

IMO Cech was at fault for 3 goals yesterday.
Don't mind this talk of a bullet or power.

The Walcott goal he was beaten on his near post. Big no no for a top keeper.

Santos goal the ball went under the keeper another big no no.

The 3rd RVP goal also beat him at his near post.

I'm not talking about Sturridge. That's another issue.

Cech's high standards slipped yesterday.

But the power of their shot's determine if he makes the save or not...

Obviously don't see eye to eye, but your being very harsh on him

amiable

1mcampo1 wrote: »

But the power of their shot's determine if he makes the save or not...

Obviously don't see eye to eye, but your being very harsh on him

I don't think i'm being harsh on him at all. I think i'm being fair.
I'm actually a massive fan of Peter Cech. He's set such a high standard over the years.

Forget the power. If a keeper is covering his near post he saves regardless of power.

I do believe others on this thread are being harsh on Chelsea in general.
I don't think the problems are as big as some make out.
It's not that long since Chelsea won the double and i believe Chelsea have strengthened since then.

Patience is the key

Masked Man

Apparently Luiz is on twitter now.

Piazon confirmed it.

Sgt Pepper 64

willmunny1990 wrote: »

You have to start from the defense up, Thats a given. Its not good football or good management to simply forget about the nity gritty of defending, its part of the game and is an art in itself.

AVB may have a philosophy of attacking fluid football but he can take it and
shove it up his arse if hes just going to forget about defending.

As i have said we played suicide football at Old Trafford this season and again at home to Arsenal we were far to open and these aren't the only examples. If we go to City will he play this kind of football? I don't see him changing as he hasn't so far.

I don't think we need a massive overhaul of players but we need to get rid of a few old legs and bad apples.

AVB has to fix his philosophy fast if we are to amount to anything this season, which i doubt we will. If hes given time to buy new players and he decides to care about our defending then i have faith in him but if not he'll just be another Chelsea manager who's failed.

Problem is with buying yet more players, is that our current strategy (apart from Mata and the failed bid for Modric and the Porto left back), is that we have already spent a lot of money on players for the next generation, not now. And we've already seen that its not the best to go and buy in Jan, higher prices, harder to get your targets etc.
We spent all summer trying to get Modric and seemed (apart from Mata) not to have a clear strategy of decent targets. Thats because AVB came in too late and needed time to assess the squad.
We have still spent close to Man City thanks to the 50 mill dropped on Torres and have a clearly poorer squad. I'm sure AVB wouldnt have gone anywhere near Torres.
Plus everyone was wondering why AVB was going for a defender, well now we know!
That means apart unless we go crazy, we are going to unbalance the squad with panic buys and yet more money when we are trying to break even.
We need a defensive coach to sort it out (Like stevie clarke) and sort Luiz out - he cost enough and should be first choice

killwill

1mcampo1 wrote: »

But the power of their shot's determine if he makes the save or not...Obviously don't see eye to eye, but your being very harsh on him

I personally think amiable is spot on.
And it is not all about the power of their ahot, the keepers positioning is just as important.
Cech is a class keeper, but was quite sub-standard yesterday.

Masked Man

Wouldn't mind this against Genk:

---

Cech

---

-Ivan---Luiz---Alex---Paulo----

---

Romeu

---

---

Meireles---Josh

---

-Danny

---

Anelka

---

Torres

---

I'd like to see Ivan playing RB more this season, but I doubt it'll happen. Josh probably won't even make the bench with the way his season is going.

1mcampo1

killwill wrote: »

I personally think amiable is spot on.
And it is not all about the power of their ahot, the keepers positioning is just as important.
Cech is a class keeper, but was quite sub-standard yesterday.

I was using Walcott and VP's 3rd as a example, ie the power of the shot. If they hadn't hit it as hard, maybe Cech would/wouldn't of saved it, it's unknown. Of course positioning is important, if not more

Sgt Pepper 64

1mcampo1 wrote: »

I was using Walcott and VP's 3rd as a example, ie the power of the shot. If they hadn't hit it as hard, maybe Cech would/wouldn't of saved it, it's unknown. Of course positioning is important, if not more

I'd be more worried that Cech was left exposed.
Terry is living on his leadership skills, he certainly doesnt have the pace needed by a modern defender or the positional sense of Carvailo who we greatly miss. Luis, for all his faults, has pace and ball skills. Bose cant defend to save his life, Alex is much malighned, probably because he lacks pace (ironic that he is faster than Terry) Ivan is played out of position too much. I also noticed Cole got skinned a good few times
AVB tries to make a case about how we over comitted trying to catch up, but he failed to address how we lost a winning position twice that put us there and even tried to blame Mata for missing a chance at 3-3!

amiable

1mcampo1 wrote: »

I was using Walcott and VP's 3rd as a example, ie the power of the shot. If they hadn't hit it as hard, maybe Cech would/wouldn't of saved it, it's unknown. Of course positioning is important, if not more

It wouldn't matter how hard a player hits it if Cech had his positioning right yesterday he'd have saved them. So the blame lies with Cech

amiable

Liverpool supposed to be interested in Chelsea old boy Scott Sinclair

1mcampo1

amiable wrote: »

It wouldn't matter how hard a player hits it if Cech had his positioning right yesterday he'd have saved them. So the blame lies with Cech

Of course it matters how hard the ball is hit. So by your logic, regardless of how hard VP hit it, it would of went in?

Yes positioning is vital, but the shot has to be taken into account too...

BERBA

Huge game next week for both managers at ewood.

Lose and Steve Kean is gone imo.

amiable

1mcampo1 wrote: »

Of course it matters how hard the ball is hit. So by your logic, regardless of how hard VP hit it, it would of went in?

Yes positioning is vital, but the shot has to be taken into account too...

No i said if Cech had his positioning correct it wouldn't matter how hard he hit it as Cech would have saved it.

It's actually not that difficult to understand.

1mcampo1

amiable wrote: »

No i said if Cech had his positioning correct it wouldn't matter how hard he hit it as Cech would have saved it.

It's actually not that difficult to understand.

Look at the goal again

At the angle VP was coming in at (at pace), Cech was sound. He actually hit it straight at him. It's the power, height and the spin he got that took it away from his at the last second. Again, nothing Cech could do but pick it out of the net

amiable

1mcampo1 wrote: »

Look at the goal again

At the angle VP was coming in at (at pace), Cech was sound. He actually hit it straight at him. It's the power, height and the spin he got that took it away from his at the last second. Again, nothing Cech could do but pick it out of the net

No need for me to look at it again.

I've seen it quite a few times actually.

Cech at fault. Clear as day.

1mcampo1

amiable wrote: »

No need for me to look at it again.

I've seen it quite a few times actually.

Cech at fault. Clear as day.

Good man. Your way or no way, yeah