Aston Villa Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2013/14

OneColdHand

Clanket wrote: »

Steve Kean?

Roy Keane.

invinciblePRSTV

Steve Bruce

CSF wrote: »

Ah, remember the days we used to think Lerner was in some way useful as an owner.

Tbf, the only thing I liked about RL was he willingness to splash the cash, all good will flowed from there...

Helix

i think people forget that he's still spending a fortune on the club, albeit keeping us afloat by paying the wages

Raekwon

Helix wrote: »

i think people forget that he's still spending a fortune on the club, albeit keeping us afloat by paying the wages

Yes but isn't that his minimum obligation for the owner of a football club?

IMO Randy Lerner is turning into the new Bill Kenwright. He wants to operate Villa similar to Everton ie: on a shoestring budget with a capped wage bill while selling off our prized assets for profit. If that's the case then we will really need a manager like David Moyes who has proved for over a decade that he can operate very successful within the constraints of the club while guaranteeing moderate success (top 8 finishes, cup runs & even flirting with the holy grail).

Savman

Helix wrote: »

i think people forget that he's still spending a fortune on the club, albeit keeping us afloat by paying the wages

And this means what, he is somehow a shrewd businessman now but not so much 4 years ago? I don't buy it. He sanctioned all those deals so is at least as culpable as MON if not moreso. Any manager will spend £100m if it's given to them, especially if CL is a clear goal from above.

So we have had 3 or 4 years of being bankrolled then 2 solid years of being penny pinched, will the real Randy Lerner please stand up.

JPA

Raekwon wrote: »

Yes but isn't that his minimum obligation for the owner of a football club?

IMO Randy Lerner is turning into the new Bill Kenwright. He wants to operate Villa similar to Everton ie: on a shoestring budget with a capped wage bill while selling off our prized assets for profit. If that's the case then we will really need a manager like David Moyes who has proved for over a decade that he can operate very successful within the constraints of the club while guaranteeing moderate success (top 8 finishes, cup runs & even flirting with the holy grail).

Bill Kenwright is running Everton within it's financial constraints which is why they have to sell assets now and then. I don't think it's a case of selling for profits, it's a case of selling to help Everton keep operating.

Villa have been operating in a bubble with Lerner's investment and now he's reigning it in. In a rather dramatic and cut throat style it has to be said but it's clear he wants the wage bill to be within the means of the club to pay it.

Helix

lerner set a target of champions league, and budgeted for it. the problem was that i dont think ANYONE couldve imagined that most of the players we signed for decent money and on big wages would move on for nothing. usually there's going to be some form of money coming in from selling players on, but we got nothing for 90% of signings made under lerner.

nobody could have foreseen that, and i dont buy into the "well that's the chairman's fault" argument. it's not. for the money he spent on players, he would likely have factored in sell on fees for players leaving the club, instead we were stuck paying wages for guys who werent playing, and even paying them off the rest of their contracts to leave

lerner is still pumping serious money into the club, but it's to plug the holes created by the first 4 years he owned the club

Raekwon

JPA wrote: »

Bill Kenwright is running Everton within it's financial constraints which is why they have to sell assets now and then. I don't think it's a case of selling for profits, it's a case of selling to help Everton keep operating.

Villa have been operating in a bubble with Lerner's investment and now he's reigning it in. In a rather dramatic and cut throat style it has to be said but it's clear he wants the wage bill to be within the means of the club to pay it.

Sorry that's what I meant, we have been selling our best players off for a profit on what we paid for them, but this money has been absorbed to cover the cost of running the club, wages being the most obviously drain on resources.

Speaking of wages, I'm sure that we are nearly at the stage where most of the high earners from the MON era are gone or are on the way out so shouldn't the wage bill be at least be in and around a ballpark figure where the club want it to be?

All of our young players wouldn't be on massive money by Premier League standards and the likes of Petrov, Heskey, Dunne, Cuellar & Collins have one foot out the door with Gabby & Warnock, both heavily linked with Sunderland, possibly following them in the summer.

That leaves Bent, Ireland, N'Zogbia & Given as our only £50k/60k+ players to build a team around.

Surely that's manageable?

IMO the one thing that is costing Lerner more money then he had anticipated is his self-inflicted managerial merry go round. How much did he need to pay MON, GED & Small Heath in compensation in the last 18 months? Plus he now has to decide if it's worth sacking McLeish then compensating him for the remaining two years of his contract. I doubt he'd have much change out of £15m for that lot and that's not even mentioning the possibility of a new manager being appointed.

Raekwon

Helix wrote: »

the problem was that i dont think ANYONE couldve imagined that most of the players we signed for decent money and on big wages would move on for nothing. usually there's going to be some form of money coming in from selling players on, but we got nothing for 90% of signings made under lerner.

EVERYBODY knew that signing like Zat Knight & Marlon Harewood for £4m a piece and on £45k a week wages was utter stupidly at the time. Especially as they had pretty much had no resell value and they were replacing young players that were much more profitable like Gary Cahill. Also I think most people knew that spunking around £30m on the likes of Nick Shorey, Stephen Warnock, Carlos Cuellar, Emile Heskey, Nigel Reo-Coker & Steve Sidwell was utter madness. Not the mention that they were all on huge wages and would have little resell value due to their age aswell as varies other factors.

I think it's fair to say that everybody knew that only Milner, Barry, Young & Downing were the club only profitable players. I'd add Gabby to that list but obviously as a player that came through the ranks he didn't cost anything, but we could have seriously cashed in on him like the players mentioned above, but that chance has now gone.

Chucky the tree

I'm sure the new UEFA rules are another big reason Lerner needs to cut down the wage bill.

Helix

Raekwon wrote: »

EVERYBODY knew that signing like Zat Knight & Marlon Harewood for £4m a piece and on £45k a week wages was utter stupidly at the time. Especially as they had pretty much had no resell value and they were replacing young players that were much more profitable like Gary Cahill. Also I think most people knew that spunking around £30m on the likes of Nick Shorey, Stephen Warnock, Carlos Cuellar, Emile Heskey, Nigel Reo-Coker & Steve Sidwell was utter madness. Not the mention that they were all on huge wages and would have little resell value due to their age aswell as varies other factors.

I think it's fair to say that everybody knew that only Milner, Barry, Young & Downing were the club only profitable players. I'd add Gabby to that list but obviously as a player that came through the ranks he didn't cost anything, but we could have seriously cashed in on him like the players mentioned above, but that chance has now gone.

ironically, knight was one of the few we got a few bob for. look at the lads who left on free transfers though, at the time we bought them you'd never have thought most of them would leave for nothing. shorey, sidwell, nrc, carew etc.

im not talking about making profits off them, im talking about bringing in a few bob from their sales, even 50% what we paid wouldve been a massive relief financially

Helix

Chucky the tree wrote: »

I'm sure the new UEFA rules are another big reason Lerner needs to cut down the wage bill.

our wages are pretty much as low as they'll get now after the summer

beye gone, petrov retiring (we'll actually make money from that one out of the insurance pay off), heskey gone

then we'll likely shift one or two from collins, dunne and warnock

cuellar needs to be kept though imo. he's the lowest paid of the senior centre backs, and is arguably the pick of the bunch. getting rid of collins and pairing him with dunne would save us money and make us stronger imo, but it doesnt look like we'll hold onto him - another freebie to add to pile

Raekwon

Yeah Knight was signed for £4m and was sold on for around that price also. But rather ironically we sold Cahill for £5m and he was sold on for £7m and I can see his transfer value rising even further because of his age and status.

The only player I'm surprised that we didn't make any money off was Nigel Reo-Coker. He was signed for £8.5m, was 23 at the time and had captained both West Ham & England Under-21's. Letting him go for nothing was stupid, especially since he had only turned 27 when he was released.

I agree that Cuellar should be kept. He is by far our best centre half and would make a good partner for Clark using Baker as cover. But he can leave on a Bosman this summer and Valencia have already made an approach to sign him. I personally think Collins will move and Dunne will stay.

Whatever happens, we do need to strengthen badly during the summer aswell as shed the rest of the deadwood.

death1234567

Raekwon wrote: »

The only player I'm surprised that we didn't make any money off was Nigel Reo-Coker.

We didn't make any money from him because of his massive wages. Nobody was going to pay him the same wages he was getting at villa and he was hardly going to leave and takea massive pay cut. That's why he just ran down his contract (like so many of our massively over paid players, Thanks MON)

pavb2

Been doing a bit of reading on net and I reckon Mcleish is gone at end of season. After Tuesday's fans protest, the penny seems to have dropped with the media and I think RL will recognise he's took it too close to the wire. I think mutual consent will be the operative words.

Anyway for tomorrow it needs the likes of Nzogbia, Ireland (if fit) Gabby and the rest to take the game by the scruff of the neck and play with a bit of passion.

I see Odemwinge as the biggest threat but what chance Agent Ridgewell scoring from a corner? I don't mind as long as it's an own goal and he's more likely to put the ball in their goal from a corner than us.

I noticed on other prediction thread about 3 times as many going for Baggies win.

Anyway my prediction is 2 - 0 to Villa

At a human and personal level the pressure AMc must be feeling must be immense and some of the stuff on the internet about him (pictures of him holding a gun to his head saying 'Just do it') crosses the line and is out of order, ultimately as time has shown he was a bad appointment and out of his depth.

Neil3030

This was posted by Mystery Man on the 10th of April:

I can tell you there is no intention to get rid of him despite the apathy around the club falling attendances and dire football ! Lerner likes him thinks he has a great work ethic and above all trusts him ! Its not what you want to hear but thats the facts . If we are struggling next season then yes I think he will think again .

He came in to do a job with the finances around us and staying up will probably be seen us as stabilising things . But for me you can't hide behind the football the results and what has happened simply not good enough .

3 games since we lost 4-0 to Man U, drew 0-0 with Sunderland and lost to Bolton. I wonder if the above still holds.

JPA

pavb2 wrote: »

At a human and personal level the pressure AMc must be feeling must be immense and some of the stuff on the internet about him (pictures of him shooting himself) is out of order, ultimately as time has shown he was a bad appointment and out of his depth.

Just completely out of his depth is the be all and end of it.

He couldn't turn the job understandably but he's been horribly exposed.

Raekwon

pavb2 wrote: »

At a human and personal level the pressure AMc must be feeling must be immense and some of the stuff on the internet about him (pictures of him shooting himself) is out of order, ultimately as time has shown he was a bad appointment and out of his depth.

I'd say that McLeish is very used to extremely high levels of pressure by now, sure he has been a manager for 18 consecutive years and has never been out of work since he joined Motherwell in 1994.

In saying that his appointment will surely go down as one of the most bizarre managerial appointments in English football history. Even the dogs in the street knew that hiring McLeish was going to end badly, how Lerner & Faulkner thought otherwise was beyond most peoples comprehension.

I'd say sack McLeish & Grant now and give McDonald & Cowans the reins for the last three games. They know the players better then anyone else and it could be the right move in regards to getting a response from the players.

death1234567

Raekwon wrote: »

his appointment will surely go down as one of the most bizarre managerial appointments in English football history. Even the dogs in the street knew that hiring McLeish was going to end badly, how Lerner & Faulkner thought otherwise was beyond most peoples comprehension.

+1. I lost alot of respect for Randy the day he appointed McCrap. Whoever he is getting his advice from should be sacked, Houiller and then McCrap??? Probably the two worst managerial appointments in our history*

* Honourable mention to Dr. Joe.

Helix

death1234567 wrote: »

We didn't make any money from him because of his massive wages. Nobody was going to pay him the same wages he was getting at villa and he was hardly going to leave and takea massive pay cut. That's why he just ran down his contract (like so many of our massively over paid players, Thanks MON)

nrc was one of the few who was on reasonable wages. he was on £30k a week, he wanted £50k a week to renew though

pavb2

I'd say sack McLeish & Grant now and give McDonald & Cowans the reins for the last three games. They know the players better then anyone else and it could be the right move in regards to getting a response from the players.

If we lose tomorrow I can't see him being in the dugout against Spurs there's concerted protests planned for that game already.

On the video he looks shell shocked

http://www.skysports.com/video/inline/0,,16468_7709678,00.html

One thing in our favour is the yam yams seem to be very cocky about putting another nail in our coffin

G.K.

Given, Hutton, Cuellar, Dunne, Lichaj, N'Zogbia, Herd, Clark, Warnock, Agbonlahor, Heskey

Raekwon

G.K. wrote: »

Given, Hutton, Cuellar, Dunne, Lichaj, N'Zogbia, Herd, Clark, Warnock, Agbonlahor, Heskey

Subs: Guzan, Collins, Ireland, Bannan, Carruthers, Gardner, Weimann.

Btw when did you become a Mod G.K.?

G.K.

2 days ago.

Raekwon

Congrats!

Match prediction: WBA 2-1 Villa

McCluless is playing 6 defenders in the team today. I see that his 'draw=win' philosophy hasn't waned during the most turbulent week of his Villa rein so far. His negativity is embarrassing!

Savman

Aiming for 3 scoreless draws in the remaining 3 games then.
3pts = safety?
Master tactician at work.

Paully D

James Nursey on Twitter:

Big 'Eck on edge here. A live camera came up close to film AM in the tunnel before kick-off and he pushed it away with his hand

Raekwon

Wigan 2-0 up against Newcastle, level on points will Villa now as it stands.

markesmith

Hoping ye win this and secure some safety before you play us (Spurs).

I like Villa, you're a big club and I wouldn't like to see you out of the PL.

McLeish has has has to go. Some of the abuse on other forums has been over the top, but doesn't take away from fact that he's not the right man.

Neil3030

Bolton have taken the lead against Sunderland....

Helix

gabby is a mule

Neil3030

Helix wrote: »

gabby is a mule

Did you see Mers talk about him on SSN earlier?

Helix

havent seen ssn in about 5 years

what was he saying?

Neil3030

Helix wrote: »

havent seen ssn in about 5 years

what was he saying?

Ah you would have needed to see it to really appreciate it. Basically his point was that Gabby's only trick was pace and that's now gone because he's gotten "huge... just.. huge" (while holding his arms out in front of his stomach to imply: fat bastard).

Helix

aye he's spot on

gabby isn't a good footballer, he never has been. but he had lightening pace and the ability to kick a ball relatively straight more often than not. he's mentally retarded in terms of having a football brain

JPA

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ah you would have needed to see it to really appreciate it. Basically his point was that Gabby's only trick was pace and that's now gone because he's gotten "huge... just.. huge" (while holding his arms out in front of his stomach to imply: fat bastard).

He's never liked him but changes his tune depending on Gabbys form.

And merson isn't exactly one to criticise a players weight.

cgpg5

Think a draw today might be enough to keep you up cos I can't see QPR bettering 37. As far as I know ye've superior GD

Savman

Jesus...blessed.

Helix

4 players offside... jesus christ

Savman

MON doing us a favour anyway.


*clings to faint hope*

Patser

Bolton losing now

Helix

if things stay as they are, bolton need at least 5 points from their last 9 if we're going to be relegated

if, somehow, we win this game and bolton lose they'll need 7 from their last 3 games

Raekwon

King Carlos off the line!

Patser

Bolton level again

cgpg5

Helix wrote: »

if things stay as they are, bolton need at least 5 points from their last 9 if we're going to be relegated

if, somehow, we win this game and bolton lose they'll need 7 from their last 3 games

Bolton can do what they want imo. QPR have City and Chelsea away, I see them getting zero in them. Think they'll beat Stoke but that puts them still behind ye on GD if ye draw today.

Raekwon

Incredible come back from Wolves, not that it matters, but it's impressive all the same.

JPA

Hutton our biggest attacking threat, say no more.

Raekwon

Gabby or Clark should have buried that chance!

Savman

This Villa team is dirt tbh.

JPA

Savman wrote: »

This Villa team is dirt tbh.

Who doesn't know that?!